Are Lesbian Gay-Bashers Guilty of a Hate Crime?

[The Straight Story]

Are Lesbian Gay-Bashers Guilty of a Hate Crime?

The Boston Herald spotlights a fascinating criminal case today: Last Sunday, Erika Stroud, 21, her sister Felicia Stroud, 18 (pictured, left), and a third woman, Lydia Sanford (pictured, right), attacked a gay man in a stairwell of a Boston subway station viciously enough to break his nose. Prosecutor Lindsey Weinstein said they repeatedly punched and kicked him "after he bumped them with his backpack." As they beat him, they also "called him insulting homophobic slurs," according to the victim's account, and he told police he believed he was attacked because of his sexual orientation. They were swiftly arraigned yesterday on hate crime charges. But here's the thing: All three identify as lesbians. It's a legal conundrum: Do hate crime laws apply to members of the minorities they seek to protect? City prosecutors and the Massachusetts chapter of the ACLU think they do, and are pursuing a charge of assault and battery with intent to intimidate -- a crime punishable by up to ten years in prison.

“Someone who is Jewish can be anti-Semitic,” said ACLU staff attorney Sarah Wunsch. “The mere fact that someone is a member of the same class doesn’t mean they could not be motivated by hatred for their very own group.” [...]

“The defendants’ particular orientation or alleged orientations have no bearing on our ability to prosecute for allegedly targeting a person who they believe to be different from them,” [Suffolk District Attorney Daniel F. Conley] said.

But not everyone sees it that way:

“My guess is that no sane jury would convict them under those circumstances, but what this really demonstrates is the idiocy of the hate-crime legislation,” said civil liberties lawyer Harvey Silverglate. “If you beat someone up, you’re guilty of assault and battery of a human being. Period. The idea of trying to break down human beings into categories is doomed to failure.”

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/02/are-lesbian-gay-bashers-guilty-hate-crime/49164/

[CAPHAVOC]

1. Guilty

Of not minding their own business.

[xchrom]

2. short answer: yes. nt

[Creideiki]

4. Long answer: There's a reason we use the terms self-loathing gay/lesbian/trans

Roy Cohn was gay-bashing through his entire career all the while sleeping with men.

Other long answer--is the act meant to send a message to the greater community of gay men not to accidentally brush up against a lesbian? Then it's an act of terrorism. Why do the anti-hate crime people love terrorists?

[yardwork]

15. +1

[Behind the Aegis]

16. Well done.

BTW, Roy Cohn was also a self-loathing Jew. I use the term "Uncle Roy" to describe self-hating Jews and gay men.

[Hugabear]

3. Can African-Americans be racist against other African-Americans?

[Ecumenist]

9. Yep, yes they can! It has to do with the hue of skin and hair texture...I've experienced it.

It's called being "colorstruck". they are people who actually raise their children not to bring home, "tar babies" with "bad", (Kinky) Hair. YES.THEY.CAN.AND.DO act in a hateful way toward other black folks. Sorry to tell you.

[FrodosPet]

17. Shocking incident at work

I had a middle aged African American customer I was preparing taxes for call his mom and tell her not to worry, he found a white guy to prepare his taxes, that he wasn't letting any ******s near his money.

Hearing something like that puts you in a very strange place. What, if any, right would I have to challenge him?

[MadHound]

5. Sorry, but hate crime legislation is pretty idiotic.

After all, most violent crimes come out of hate.

[alphafemale]

6. I think it should be used as evidence in trial as motive.

A past history of racism or homophobia etc should be brought into evidence at trial and a jury can use the sheer ugliness of such things in sentencing.

But an assault shouldn't be put into an entire different category from the outset.

[Ecumenist]

7. Yes. of course and yes mam, THEY ARE GUILTY AS HOMEMADE SIN!!

Nuff said.

[vim876]

8. Does anyone know...

Do crimes designated 'hate crimes' actually get harsher penalties? My understanding was that it was a way to take these cases to federal court to avoid regional prejudices that might influence state courts. If the penalties are harsher, though, it's just a different name for thought crime, and we should all oppose it's use against anyone.

[Honeycombe8]

10. I don't know. It's an interesting question.

Just calling someone a name while beating them up doesn't make it a hate crime, I think. You have to set about doing a crime for the purpose of hatred against a particular class, I think.

It's like when 2 kids get into a fight for whatever reason, and one calls the other "fatso." The kid who name called may not even think anything about the other kid being overweight. He just calls the name to get to the other kid, hurt him, whatever. That wasn't the purpose of the fight, though. It's not a hate fight against fat kids.

In the end, though, I think it does work against a finding of hate crime for the alleged perpetrator to be of the same alleged victim class. That's a hard sell.

[lunatica]

11. What a dumb ass question!

Ganging up on someone and beating someone up is a crime. What? No Lesbian hates men? And what about the epithets they were hurling at him?

What a dumb question!

[pipoman]

12. The term "hate crime"

is nonsensical on it's face. There should be penalties for crime. Motive should be considered only to a finding of guilt or innocence. "Hate crime" is very, very subjective, thus extremely difficult to apply consistently.

"“My guess is that no sane jury would convict them under those circumstances, but what this really demonstrates is the idiocy of the hate-crime legislation,” said civil liberties lawyer Harvey Silverglate. “If you beat someone up, you’re guilty of assault and battery of a human being. Period. The idea of trying to break down human beings into categories is doomed to failure.” "

I agree completely, as would most civil libertarians I suspect.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

13. They could be

There is no inherent reason that persons of group X could not hate persons of group Y, even if both groups are GLBT

I oppose hate crime charges for several reasons, mostly that they are very inconsistently applied and are mostly used as a threat by prosecutors to get people to plead to lesser charges.

[Paladin]

14. Absolutely. (n/t)