Remember the British Intelligence/Yellow Cake controversy?

[Junkdrawer]

"Sixteen Words" controversy in 2003 State of the Union

In his January 2003 State of the Union speech, U.S. President George W. Bush said, "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."[2] This single sentence is now known as "the Sixteen Words."[3] The administration later conceded that evidence in support of the claim was inconclusive and stated, "These sixteen words should never have been included." The administration attributed the error to the CIA.[4] In mid-2003, the U.S. government declassified the 2002 National Intelligence Estimate, which contained a dissenting opinion published by the U.S. Department of State stating that the intelligence connecting Niger to Saddam Hussein was "highly suspect," primarily because State Department's intelligence agency analysts did not believe that Niger would be likely to engage in such a transaction due to a French consortium which maintained close control over the Nigerien uranium industry.[5]

According to The Washington Post, when occupying troops found no evidence of a current nuclear program, the statement and how it came to be in the speech became a focus for critics in Washington and foreign capitals to press the case that the White House manipulated facts to take the United States to war. The Post reported, "Dozens of interviews with current and former intelligence officials and policymakers in the United States, Britain, France and Italy show that the Bush administration disregarded key information available at the time showing that the Iraq-Niger claim was highly questionable." [6] With the release of the 2002 NIE report, the Bush administration was criticized for including the statement in the State of the Union despite CIA and State Department reports questioning its veracity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_uranium_forgeries

Well....

....

President Barack Obama and British Prime Minister David Cameron are “both gravely concerned by the attack that took place in Damascus on Wednesday and the increasing signs that this was a significant chemical weapons attack carried out by the Syrian regime against its own people," spokesperson for Cameron said Saturday.

"They reiterated that significant use of chemical weapons would merit a serious response from the international community and both have tasked officials to examine all the options," the spokesperson said.

A senior Obama administration official told The Associated Press Sunday there is "very little doubt" that a chemical weapon was involved.

British newspaper, the Sunday Telegraph, said Cameron plans to put forward a “game-changing” resolution to the United National Security Council that would give the Syrian government an ultimatum to disarm.

....

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/25/20179917-us-action-would-inflame-the-middle-east-syria-warns-as-white-house-weighs-options?lite

When in doubt, quote the Brits...

[leveymg]

1. Is it just me, or is this place very quiet this morning? Like we're in mourning.

A lot of lost illusions about this Administration.

[Hydra]

12. I think that loss of hope is going to be hard

We were trying to work with the elements in our gov't who were not part of the problem. We've learned in an unmistakeable fashion that this is not we the people, it is we the 1%.

That fact reduces our choices on how to move forward.

[leveymg]

13. It has a "Guns of August" feel about it - a lot of unintended consequences and a wider, longer,

bloodier war than was anticipated by the "back home by Xmas" crowd.

[Hydra]

17. It's not good

And I stand by my assertion during the Snowden revelations that this is all moving toward the TPP- if that passes, we are in HUGE trouble. We have to get that shut down. Cali and others did a lot of ground pounding here to make the issue more visible- we need to take that out into the world and derail the plan.

[Junkdrawer]

31. I agree

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3525611

[MisterP]

35. doubt it--the "at least he's put no boots on the ground" crowd will just change the mantra to

"at least he didn't put more than 200,000 boots on the ground"
anyone remember an instance when they DIDN'T move the goalposts 5 times, then cover up the whole "argument"?

[sabrina 1]

38. We don't put our 'boots on the ground' if possible. We use proxy armies, our dictator

friends, like Bahrain eg, supply some of the 'rebels' as they did in Libya.

The problem with Syria is that the people fought way harder than expected and it's taking too long and the PNAC crowd is getting impatient.

This is Iraq and Libya all over again. and it's shameful if it happens, that WE voted for it this time.

How many more of the PNAC list of countries do we have to go before the bloodshed and the lies stop?

Iraq
Afganistan
Libya
Syria
Iran
Lebanon

Ledeen: 'We're going to turn the ME into a sheet of glass'

Yes, well, unless someone stops them.

And apparently this time, even Democrats are on board.

Although come to think of it, they were on board last time, at least some of them. But we were so busy with Bush we failed to realize what was really happening.

[Th1onein]

40. Lost illusions. Good way to put it. I agree.

[KoKo]

2. Ahh...the "Ultimatum to Disarm." Saddam tried to comply....

so it has been reported..but, the Invasion was on!

[Junkdrawer]

3. This time for sure....

I can smell the rose petals now

[reusrename]

41. Where's the advantage in disarming. Exactly. Saddam disarmed.

This is yet another problem that US diplomacy doesn't want to acknowledge.

[cali]

4. this isn't a very good comparison- unless you think that

the chemical attack (whoever perpetrated it) was a hoax and that MSF is in on it and all the video is fake, etc, etc.

I'm opposed to intervention but c'mon.

[Junkdrawer]

5. Sorry, I don't believe Assad is that stupid.

I think it was a false flag attack.

[cali]

6. conducted by whom? And based on what don't you think that Assad is that "stupid"

For that matter, what does it have to do with stupidity?

It happened. Someone did it. I have no idea who perpetrated it. Neither do you.

Confirmation bias fascinates me. Personally, I try not to get sucked into it.

[Junkdrawer]

7. That's just it. The US is still uncertain who did it. The Brits, however, are sure it was Assad.

As I say, when in doubt....

[cali]

8. that still doesn't answer the question: Who do you think conducted a "false flag"

operation?

Britain? The U.S.? Israel? The Syrian opposition?

[Junkdrawer]

9. Let's just say that Larry Wilkerson has accused Israel of such false flag operations in Syria....

in the recent past.

Seems more plausible to me.

[cali]

14. seems ridiculous to me

there's no evidence whatsoever and to me it appears to be damned close to the long sad history of blaming the Jews for all the ills of the world, now under the convenient "it was Israel". say this and one immediately gets accused of being an Israel apologist or crying anti-semitism.

anyone who knows my postings on I/P knows I'm firmly in the Palestinian camp, but man, when I see this crap, I just have to shake my head.

[Junkdrawer]

29. Wilkerson doesn't stike me as a "blame the Jews for all the ills of the world" type...

strike me as an extremely well-informed calls-em-as-I-sees-em type.

[leveymg]

19. It's not even clear whether it was artillery or a rocket attack.

The photos of the "gas rockets" that we've been shown look very homemade.

Either way, the opposition is fully capable of both modes of attack, and have far more apparent motive to have done this than the regime. I don't but the "testing boundaries" theory.

[leveymg]

15. We would be stupid to not confirm every detail before we get sucked into it.

That's my bias.

[awoke_in_2003]

33. We'd be stupid...

to get sucked in at all.

[leveymg]

34. Yup

[Supersedeas]

25. i agree...bad analogy

[malaise]

10. I'm putting my neck on the line

There was no chemical attack in Syria. Truth be told Obama created this problem for himself when he said a chemical attack would be a line in the sand. He should have known that the neo-con warmongers and profiteers would never stop until they convinced the usual sheeple and morons that there was such an attack.

It's all bullshit - just like Iraq.
Murder some more people and loot their lands. I hate this planet.

[cali]

18. So you think Medecins Sans Frontiere is in on perpetrating a hoax?

and the video footage is all fake too?

I don't know if it was the Assad forces or the rebel forces, but it happened.

I hate denial and confirmation bias. Stupid isn't high on my list either.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/25/doctors-without-borders-medecins-sans-frontieres-says-355-died-of-neurotoxic-symptoms-in-syria/

[leveymg]

20. I don't think there are too many who are still doubting that people were killed by some sort of gas.

Beyond that, however, the details are unclear.

[cali]

36. isn't that just precisely what I said?

[malaise]

32. Let me put it this way

There is not one organization on this planet that has not been infiltrated by 1%ers and their agents - not effin' one.

I remember some other fake video before the illegal war and occupation in Iraq.

I do not believe a single fucking word. They couldn't just show dead people shot by the army because Egypt just happened so they had to go a step further. I am a very patient woman - truth will out. It did with Iraq and some of us knew from day one.

[cali]

37. you really, really need how to employ some critical thinking.

I knew that the "evidence" re Iraq was bullshit from the get go. I know this isn't. How? I know how to do research, examine evidence and which sources are reliable.

We don't know who did it, but we do know that thousands of people were exposed to chemical agents and that a number of people died.

Denying it is just insane. literally.

[Junkdrawer]

39. malaise, you'll want to read this....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023532703

[stevenleser]

21. There was a chemical attack, the only question is by whom. All sides agree there was an attack

as does Doctors without Borders.

If the international community wants to uphold Geneva conventions and various other international laws regarding the use of chemical weapons, that's great, let the UN form a coalition and go in and resolve this.

The US should stay out of the next 25-50 or so attempts by the world to use military force to enforce international law, and be humanitarian, etc.

[L0oniX]

27. Yea ...the USA used chemicals to attack too. Who's going to tell us to disarm?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_use_in_Iraq

and if that ain't enough about the use of banned weapons by the US...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_munition

Magnificent hypocrites!

[zeemike]

30. Not to mention Agent Orange.

That we dumped on Viet Nam in great quantities and they are still suffering from...

[Arctic Dave]

22. I'm going to say it was a false flag operation by foriegn entities.

Over a thousand people dead from CW use is a large scale operation that would require a large chain of command and logistical support.

Seems far fetched that Assad would plan this event to use CW and then bring in UN inspectors the day he planned to use them. Makes absolutely no sense at all considering he is well aware of the consequences if he does.

However, the "rebels" know what the "red line" is and can build their narrative to discredit the Syrian military.

As a hat tip to another poster on DU, that timeline was six months from the time Obama stated the redline to the first reports of Syria using CW. Turns out the rebels did it.

Right now the Syrian military is defeating the rebels on the battlefield and they seem to be desperate. Fanatic and desperate is a dangerous combination.

[Hydra]

11. I wonder if we'll get another David Kelly whistleblow + "suicide" out of this

But I'm guessing whoever could uncover the truth for us will be rightly afraid to speak.

[Octafish]

16. Now that you mention it, not many have stepped forward since then.

Must be a coincidence.

[nashville_brook]

23. +1

[Hydra]

24. Yes, a coincidence, I'm certain n/t

[heaven05]

28. yeah, remember

michael hastings.

[L0oniX]

26. Didn't we use phosphor on Faluja and didn't we drop cluster bombs? So who will tell us to disarm?

The hypocrisy of the USA is astounding. We should attack ourselves for all the violations of our own laws. Fucking ridiculous and pathetic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_use_in_Iraq

In April 2004, during the First Battle of Fallujah, after the fall of Saddam Hussein's government, Darrin Mortenson of the North County Times in California reported that white phosphorus was used as an incendiary weapon. Embedded with the 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, Mortenson described a Marine mortar team using a mixture of white phosphorus and high explosives to shell a cluster of buildings where insurgents had been spotted throughout the week.[4]

In November 2004, during the Second Battle of Fallujah, Washington Post reporters embedded with Task Force 2-2, Regimental Combat Team 7, wrote on November 9, 2004 that "Some artillery guns fired white phosphorus (WP) rounds that create a screen of fire that cannot be extinguished with water." [5] Insurgents reported being attacked with a substance that melted their skin, a reaction consistent with white phosphorus burns.[5]

On November 9, 2005 the Italian state-run broadcaster Radiotelevisione Italiana S.p.A. aired a documentary titled "Fallujah, The Hidden Massacre", alleging that the United States' used white phosphorus as a weapon in Fallujah causing insurgents and civilians to be killed or injured by chemical burns. The filmmakers further claimed that the United States used incendiary MK-77 bombs in violation of Protocol III of the 1980 Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons. According to the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, quoted in the documentary, white phosphorus is permitted for use as an illumination device and as a weapon with regard to heat energy, but not permitted as an offensive weapon with regard to its toxic chemical properties.[6][7] The documentary also included footage which purported to be of white phosphorus being fired from helicopters over Fallujah. It also quoted journalist Giuliana Sgrena, who had been in Fallujah, as a testimony. [8]

Yea we used cluster bombs and shipped a lot of them to others ...spreading the terror ...children with blown off limbs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_munition

Afghanistan, 2001 - 2002

United States and other NATO countries used large numbers of cluster munitions during the initial stage of the operation. 1,228 cluster bombs containing 248,056 bomblets were used by the allies.[15][16][17]

Iraq
A US naval F/A-18C Hornet launches from USS Nimitz to a mission in Southern Iraq. Among other weapons, the plane carries CBU-100 "Rockeye" cluster bombs.

Used by the United States and the United Kingdom

1991: United States, France, and the United Kingdom dropped 61,000 cluster bombs, containing 20 million submunitions, on Iraq, according to the HRW.[18]

2003-2006: United States and allies attacked Iraq with 13,000 cluster munitions, containing two million submunitions during Operation Iraqi Freedom, according to the HRW.[19] At multiple times, coalition forces used cluster munitions in residential areas, and the country remains among the most contaminated by this day, bomblets posing a threat to both US military personnel in the area, and local civilians.[20]

When these weapons were fired on Baghdad on April 7, 2003 many of the bomblets failed to explode on impact. They were picked up or stumbled on by their victims. The Pentagon presented a misleading picture during the war of the extent to which cluster weapons were being used and of the civilian casualties they were causing. Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters on April 25, six days before President Bush declared major combat operations over, that the United States had used 1,500 cluster weapons and caused one civilian casualty.[21]

[KharmaTrain]

42. Even If...

...chemical weapons are proven (and I'm one who thinks they have been used), you just don't stamp these things out with a missile strike. Technically Syria has been at war non-stop since 1948...not only with Israel but also its involvement in Lebanon. Add to that a very militarized border with Turkey and you have a country that has many "justifications" to develop chemical weapons and did. My bets they are widespread across the country; especially since the civil war began and the only way to prevent their use is to end this civil war. Unfortunately the US is in no position to do so...