Do you understand why Occupy was infiltrated and broken up?

[Savannahmann]

Everyone on this site has long known that Occupy was infiltrated by the FBI. We have had opinions that it was the PTB that were doing the bidding of the bankers etc.

http://www.justiceonline.org/commentary/fbi-files-ows.html

It wasn't. It was the realization that the Politicians are also the 1%. The argument is that the 1% holds the money, and the power over the 99%. The 1% includes the Koch Brothers and all the other mega rich. But it also includes those who hold the power, which is the Politicians, and the privilege, which is again, the Politicians.

If you work for a company, and you tell me that your company is about to announce a huge Government Contract, and I buy stock in that company based upon that knowledge, I have just committed a felony. That is insider trading. If I am a Congressman, and I decide to award your company the contract, and buy stock in that company before the contract is announced, I have not committed a crime. That ladies and gentlemen is privilege. That is power, and privilege all abused at once. So what can we do? Nothing so long as the Congressman reports the stocks on his financial disclosure form. Even if he doesn't, and amends it a couple years later, no harm no foul right?

This is why Occupy could not be allowed to continue. This is why Occupy was a threat. The Bankers felt the glare of the spotlight, and the political powers that be felt the glare coming towards them.

Ask yourself why Congress doesn't have to follow the EEOC regulations? A Lily white Senator can have a staff full of Lily white sycophants, and it's not illegal. If I did it, it would be proof that I am using race to exclude qualified candidates from the positions within my company.

This is why Occupy was broken up. This is why they will never be allowed to gain traction. If it looks like they will, then those in power are threatened. The ones with the most power are the ones we elect. The ones with the most money, help them get elected. The bankers didn't need to tell Washington to do something, Washington was threatened too.

[Egalitarian Thug]

1. K&R&Congrats on 1,500 posts. n/t

[NightWatcher]

2. I really don't think the banksters and traders were scared of OWS

Sure, it made getting that morning Starbucks a little tough on Wall St, but that's about it.

I think what broke up a lot of the Occupy group was that their was no structure to the group. The few groups I saw were rag tag conspiracy nuts and anti government types. Savannah tried to occupy a park and that guy was a loon. Jacksonville tried and was the same. Bigger cities had larger collections of the same people and had no real goals.

Sure, some groups had goals. OWS held a park, until they didn't anymore. Other groups helped homeowners stay in their homes. This is what I think was the only thing a few groups accomplished.

The media didn't cover the groups outside of OWS because they had no cohesion with any other group. They had no central focus or goal to attain.

I wish they would have done something and faired better, but for the most part they didn't.

(Puts on Kevlar hoodie)

Go ahead and tell me I'm wrong and how they are a force of good to this day.

[Warren Stupidity]

5. "what broke up a lot of the Occupy group"

Was the use of force to end the nationwide occupations. The organizational structure of occupy had nothing to do with it. Smashing heads and mass arrests and making public assembly effectively illegal had everything to do with it.

The decentralized democratic organizational structure of occupy endlessly frustrated government agencies and media outlets, and became a focal point for naysayers, but had little to do with why informal gatherings without a permit are now strictly forbidden in most cities.

[randome]

10. Occupy had at least 6 months of taking over public parks while they were left alone.

There is no excuse for brutality but they had overstayed their welcome by a long shot. When you have two large groups at odds, one of which refuses to leave when asked, the recipe for violence is easy to mix.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[Warren Stupidity]

12. They were never "left alone".

[Live and Learn]

18. Imagine that. the public taking over public parks. For shame!

[sabrina 1]

42. Why do you insist on posting about OWS when it is clear you either know nothing about

it or your sources, as I have pointed out before, are extremely bad sources. This comment is false.

OWS was harassed from the minute they went out to protest in NYC.

In fact, thankfully, it was the vicious reaction to them by the corrupt NYPD that sky-rocketed them to national attention.

The abuses of peaceful people protesting shocked people across the country in the VERY FIRST FEW DAYS.

Their initial goal was to spend, at the most, TWO weeks in Zuccotti Sq rather than just one day of protests.

Instead, thanks to the attacks on them that occurred IN THE FIRST FEW DAYS, causing people across the country to, at first, consider coming to NY, instead started their own Occupations. Thank YOU NYPD.

And just as soon as others started their protests, they two were attacked. Then it spread across the globe, and the same thing happened. It was hard to know which country you were looking at with the Robo Cops all looking the same and acting the same.

OWS exceeded its goals thanks to the vicious, brutal attempt to squash them.

And it started on the FIRST DAY. Because just FYI, they had been very open about their plans and the cops were ready and waiting.

At least stick to the facts. You can oppose this Social Justice movement if you like, but you can't do with false statements, someone is going to correct them.

[aquart]

48. "Corrupt NYPD"

You might want to remember these are union members.

I'm thinking you have no idea what a corrupt police force really looks like.

[sabrina 1]

55. I'm thinking that when a Dept is in the middle of multiple scandals at the same time

and has a history of being involved in scandals it has earned itself the 'corrupt' label.

I'm thinking, being from NY, that I know very well what a corrupt force looks like.

[Live and Learn]

64. Remember this:

A perfect example of just who the NYPD was protecting.

<a href="http://imgur.com/nBHbWe8"><img src="" title="Hosted by imgur.com" /></a>

[pitbullgirl1965]

102. Arrogant scum

I perused a LE forum out of boredom. The comments had a strong undertone of Teabagger. There are some vile LEO out there.

[aquart]

66. Uh, no.

Not if all you're used to is New York. Of course, we used to joke that the 111th, Chelsea went to jail about every five years. That was more than 5 years ago.

Maybe you need to define what you mean when you say "corruption." Not what the dictionary says it means, what YOU mean.

[markpkessinger]

125. Uh, yes -- Google "Adrian Schoolcraft" n/t

[Live and Learn]

111. 3 words, "Stop and Frisk". nt

[eilen]

128. What does that mean? It doesn't make any difference

the union members who were perpetrating stop and frisk, harassment of citizens in that very same city.

Boy, back when the unions were trying to form it was "veterans" who were cracking their heads with clubs.

[geek tragedy]

78. Yes, the local PDs mistreated them in many places.

But, acting as if local cops wouldn't have roughed up a bunch of protestors without approval from Washington is asinine.

[sabrina 1]

85. They weren't 'roughed up' they were brutalized, several nearly killed. To the point

where the UN tried to intervene on their behalf by notifying the Administration that Americans were being brutalized on the streets of their own country. But for some inexplicable reason this Administration didn't seem to care., even after two War Veterans nearly died from the abuse.

So sick of all the lies and the deceptions and the excuses and the apologists. As if the people are fools. WE'RE NOT. Not even by the attempt to appear to be 'reasonable' by diminishing the outrageous attacks that took place and the thousands of arrests, while we point fingers at other countries. So either present the facts without trying to minimize them or someone else will.

[JDPriestly]

139. "two large groups at odds." What two groups?

I don't know of any group that asked Occupy to leave other than the government.

Occupy included people of various political persuasions. Did you ever go to an Occupy site and talk with the people? I did. I met all kinds of people with very different political view.

Occupy will probably return in a slightly different manifestation because the societal tensions and problems that spawned it have not been resolved. In fact, no effort has been made to resolve the underlying problems that moved Occupy to meet in the open air.

[AllyCat]

151. left alone for 6 months? Huh. Seems to me they were pressured from the very start.

Overstayed their welcome? They were in a public place!!!

[randome]

157. Many of them were from other cities. The local residents started to resent them.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[AllyCat]

159. Oh, people from "somewhere else"! How terrible the locals had to see them.

[Leopolds Ghost]

165. I believe the technical term is "off from here". nt

[Live and Learn]

11. +1 nt

[Supersedeas]

103. oddly so-called conservatives claim to want de-centralization

[Recursion]

113. Occupy DC didn't have violence used against it once

It just kind of petered out.

[exlrrp]

145. Same with Occupy Eugene

It wound up being a homeless encampment that was patrolled by police for the occupants safety---because of the fights breaking out among the occupiers.
I'm all for helping the homeless but they don't represent my political views

[sagat]

6. You are correct.

[Live and Learn]

9. You saw a different Occupy movement than I did.

I saw a quickly growing movement. The "park" morphed in to a small city replete with first aid stations, libraries and community kitchens.

I saw a caring, nurturing environment that accepted everyone and anyone that cared to join it.

I saw the movement that quickly spread to communities in every state.

I saw young people getting involved in politics for the first time in their lives.

I saw a park with a growing number of full time residents that swelled during the day light hours with part timers that supported the movement.

I saw a movement that gave hope to many because it showed that others actually understood what was going on.

I saw a movement that grew so quickly that the 1% that originally sneered and laughed at the movement became anxious and demanded it be put down.

I saw a movement being crushed by a militarized police force while a complacent, media fed public pretended it was the movement's own fault and that their lack of participation had been the superior strategy and who by doing so let the status quo continue.

And yet the movement didn't die. It quieted down and its deeds go unmentioned by the media but those that agreed with it, still do. It is simmering just below the surface these days.

[LittleGirl]

14. great summary

That's how I saw it. I didn't join because of the personal consequences that would have resulted had I been arrested. Bad timing for me and my spouse. We are the 99% and always will be. We are being conned.

[Jackpine Radical]

27. Absolutely. Occupy lives.

It's just out of sight at the moment. Its viability lies in its ability to change rapidly according to new circumstances. That's one of the major virtues of leaderless organizations.

[FirstLight]

35. +1000!!

the violence was calculated by the PTB. People stopped supporting the movement because of fear.

not to mention, many of us who maybe wanted to join in were thwarted by logistics like trying to just survive in this mess...as a single mom I wasn't gonna be able to drag my kids with me to the nearest Occupy camp and live in a tent for weeks until I got arrested and had my kids taken...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

37. I was one of many people who couldn't camp out but brought food and supplies

for the local Occupy group.

[FirstLight]

41. geographically

I wasn't that close to participate in that way... we tried to create our own occupy for the area, only 20 people showed up to one event, less than three at another...

[The Wizard]

140. The police crossed

the President's red line when they employed chemical weapons on OWS protesters.
What the police did was right out of the Himmler hand book. Our police have been out of control and militarized so as to subdue all dissent. The right to petition and peacefully assembles as prescribed in the First Amendment has been abridged by authoritarian rule.

[FirstLight]

148. damn skippy

frightening and disturbing...and no accountability for it either. I was shocked that he (Obama)never addressed Oakland PD and other's violent attacks on our own people..why? because it was fully sanctioned by the US Govt.

[Luminous Animal]

40. Thank you! That was my experience, as well.

[sabrina 1]

44. Exactly. That is what a majority of the people around the globe saw. And so did Wall ST

and it's puppets around the globe and they knew they had to do something to try to stop it.

Very good summary, thank you.

[kimbutgar]

57. The camp in San Francisco got infiltrated by the homeless

I passed the camp everyday on my way to work. It was great in the beginning and then it got out of control. The camp people stole from the street artisans who sold their jewelry, art and other handmade items. It became a war between those two. The lack of sanitation and drugs just got bad and then the police moved in one morning and they were gone. I still pass by the area and miss what occupy was all about. The only remnant is a guy who stands in front of the federal reserve passing out occupy literature. I always thank him when I see him.


In my heart there will always be the occupy movement.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

100. I saw a tenth of the population of our small southern Oregon

town of 1200 persons, come out and demonstrate on highway 101, saying they were the 99%, with cars and trucks honking wildly in support of them.

[deutsey]

142. I also saw people beginning to claim public space

where there was no monetary interaction involved.

That's revolutionary in a society where we're being conditioned/brainwashed into believing everything should be privatized and turned into a commodity.

[treestar]

20. agree, a strong movement can survive FBI infiltration

It was just too weak and undefined.

[sabrina 1]

47. That would mean something if OWS was not still very much around. What makes you

think the brutal crackdowns ended a movement is all over the world today?

In fact it was the attempt to silence them that caused the growth of the movement.

The first Global Movement ever and it scared Wall St and its corrupt puppets everywhere to death.

OWS knew it would be infiltrated from the beginning. I guess you weren't following the preparations before it even began.

[roseBudd]

26. In my city, infighting destroyed Occupy....

The hard core supporters were all high maintenance, and a similar percentage were conspiracy theorists. Then there were the urban poor who attached themselves and their previous outstanding warrants to the group.

[sabrina 1]

34. OWS is not broken up, but the Corporate State drove them off the streets, for now.

It is one of the first Global Movements which is what scared the shit out of Wall St so they hired their goons to try to shut them up. As Bloomberg called the corrupt NYCD, 'my army'. He wasn't kidding.

They more than succeeded at what their initial goals were, far beyond anything even they imagined.

If you 'wish they could have done something' and fared better' as you say, what stopped you from joining them? What is stopping you now?

They are still going strong, moved to a different phase as is normal for any Social Justice movement.

And yes, they were infiltrated and the propaganda that they 'accomplished nothing, laughable in itself which is why it's such a lame thing to say, was propagated by the Corporate Media in a failed attempt to try to discredit what they did do.

You are free to go start your own group, that is the beauty of OWS. People who actually want to do 'something' can and have and are every day.

[aquart]

62. Hired goons?

Never met a real "hired goon," have you?

I dislike sloppy, trite rhetoric from either side.

NY's police are hardworking blue collar union members with pensions and benefits. Protests mean overtime pay.

Following your boss' instructions is not evidence of corruption. You want to complain about Ray Kelly, go for it. I sure as hell don't want him for homeland security. But how many months of occupation, how many serious injuries?

NYC is one of the safest protest venues on this planet.

[sabrina 1]

86. Tell your story to the tens of thousands of people who have been abused by

the NYPD over the years, the families of those who were shot and killed, the wrongful arrests, the false charges etc. Tell Bloomberg not to call them 'my army' if they are not. But they ARE, he is telling the truth. And tell the NYPD to turn down any more million dollar donations from Wall St. We know who they work for.

Of course I am talking about minorities and the poor.

[AllyCat]

152. Been to the capitol in Madison, WI? We get arrested for singing in the rotunda

(a public place). People who stop and listen are arrested, despite the official letter and statement from the Gov. There is a reason Walker left the police out of his union-busting Act 10 legislation. They work for him. Those are hired goons.

I know many good Madison cops. The capitol police are another story. Real crime happens all over but they are arresting people for singing.

[George II]

122. So what specifically are they doing TODAY? You speak very well when dealing with the vague...

....but have yet to say anything of substance.

Where are they "going strong"?
What is the "different phase"?
What is that something that they "have and are every day" doing?

[sabrina 1]

127. Their most brilliant program so far has been the Student Loan Forgiveness

program. It is BRILLIANT.

Occupy the courts, they have exposed the lies the cops told and won every case in court so far. Thanks to the wonderful Lawyers and Firms, the Civil Liberties Union et al who were with them from the beginning. Brilliant planning in the early stages made that possible. And excellent legal advice which anticipated everything that was likely to happen to a Social Justice Movement. We should run the country this way.

They have and are doing what Congress failed to do, forcing the banks to stop foreclosing on homes. Wonderful to see those many victories for the people.

I could not possibly list all they have been doing, not just here but around the world. Not to mention it is clear you WANT to believe they are gone, so does Wall St! Lol! Too bad for Wall St.

I have to go read OWS's Newspapers now. Oh yes, they have their own media and newspapers.

[George II]

169. Sorry, I just can't stop laughing long enough to read through your entire post......

"Occupy Wall Street" is responsible for the Student Loan Foregiveness Program?????



"OCW" forced banks to stop foreclosing?



"I could not possibly list all they have been doing"

THAT is no surprise.

I have to go now to read "Dilbert" and "Peanuts".

[sabrina 1]

176. Thank you once again. You never fail to provide me with Exitibits

of what I would take the time to provide as examples, if I couldn't count on you to do it for me.

To those reading, see above comment as the perfect example of why we need OWS in the first place.



It's too easy though. I like a CHALLENGE rather than these same old, worn out, jaded, non-substantive and totally silly comments.

Could you do me a favor and give me something challenging to respond to in the future, this got boring with the first one?

[George II]

175. With respect to foreclosures, I think you need to do a little research......

.....foreclosures were already on their way down, dramatically, even before "Occupy Wall Street" even began. Check this chart:



In the fall of 2011, just about the time that "Occupy Anything" began, foreclosure starts were at their lowest point since April 2007, and foreclosures completed were at their lowest point since early 2008.

So how can "Occupy Wall Street" take credit for that? It's just indicative of the proponents of this band of people - they have very few true successes so they have to take credit for things they had nothing to do with at all.

[sabrina 1]

177. I deal with people, real human beings, they are not statistics.

Give your statistics to the many homeowners who were able to stay in their homes, due directly to the intervention of OWS.

OWS can take credit for the actual people they have helped stay in their homes.

That you have no clue what they have done, only emphasizes your agenda here.

People with sincere intentions will always give credit where it is due.


I am merely humoring your desperate attempts to deny the undeniable. It is instructive for others here to see.

[George II]

178. You said "Occupy forced banks to stop foreclosing", and I just proved...

...that banks had ALREADY stopped foreclosing even before Occupy ever existed. Rather than accept reality, you just go on another tap dance totally ignoring facts, taking credit for something that had already begun happening.

You keep saying that I have "no clue", yet I've shown more credibility and facts and reality than you have, but you have shown more smoke and mirrors and "ether" than anyone possibly could have.

My agenda here is to make sure the faux "Occupy movement" isn't given credit for things for which they had nothing to do with. That's all.

I'm not denying the undeniable, nothing that is undeniable has been put forth in this discussion, at least not by you. You're still running around in imaginary circle presenting zero concrete "evidence" other than that the accomplishments of this group were few and far between.

[AllyCat]

153. Rolling Jubilee and Tiny Houses (in Madison, WI).

Try one of the many search engines on the internets. You'll find out some things that maybe haven't been reported by the press corpse (sic).

[Zorra]

56. With all due respect, it is clear that you have no real comprehension of what Occupy is. nt

[Mojorabbit]

72. .

[KharmaTrain]

90. Poor Media Management As Well...

...th 60s protests gain a lot of traction and acceptance due to its leaders ability to generate attention. When the corporate media wouldn't cover them, they created their own "free press" as well as flooding the airwaves with alternative programming and music. There was a positive image presented that attracted a generation to embrace the civil rights and anti-war movements and then dovetailed into women's liberation, the ecology, gay rights and more. The synergy was woven into popular culture. Sadly, OWS never did that.

Imagine how far civil rights would have gone with Dr. Martin Luther King or the impact that a Gloria Steinem or Bob Dylan has for that generation...Leaders who helped further their causes and made it mainstream in the process. I was sad to see how unorganized the local OWS chapter was...I haven't seen nor heard a word from them in months. I'm one who believes that power is best secured from the bottom up, but you still need leaders to keep the focus and generate greater interest.

[sabrina 1]

116. Lol, one of the things OWS not only planned for but succeeded beyond

their own imagination, was the 'management' of the media.

You have got to be kidding if you think they did not know what the Coroporate media would do with Wall St. Protestors. That was one of the first things they considered, planned for and wildly succeeded at.

First, they did not WANT the expected biased coverage of Wall St's propaganda machine. They wanted POSITIVE media coverage, and they got it, just as planned.

They WERE the media. Every member of OWS received training on what to do as soon as they hit the streets regarding Media.

You are back in the old days. OWS used the NEW MEDIA to such effect that the minute they set out on the first day, the WHOLE WORLD was involved.

Every member was advised to bring a video camera so they could film every arrest, every abuse, from a hundred different angles. Utube, Twitter, FB and blogs were all involved in covering their every action.

I and millions across the globe were watching, live, late into the night, every interaction they had with the police.

The MSM chose NOT to cover them at all, (like the anti war demonstrations under Bush) at first, hoping that ignoring them would prevent the public from paying any attention to them.

So they went to watch, and OWS filmed that too lol, but didn't film or report on them for about two weeks.

But they forgot how people get their news now, OWS did not. And without a single word on the MSM word of OWS spread faster than wildfire across the country and the world.

Stunned that the world was joining, supporting and spreading the news themselves, bringing in foreign and Idependent media, without them and all of the coverage was POSITIVE, the Corporate Media realized they had better do something in order to control the 'message'.

But it was too late for them to try their usual tricks. Fox sent their fake reporters and were totally annihilated intellectually, booed, exposed like never before, and FILMED, because once again, OWS KNEW that Faux would not broadcast themselves being destroyed, so they filmed everything and put what Faux wanted to censor all over the Internet.

It was a thing of beauty, and one of the best planned media coverage ever by a Social Justice Movement.

CNN Decided to try their hand at discrediting the protestors and sent Erin (Goldman Sachs Poster Girl) Brown down to try to undermine them. She failed, spectacularly and in return had her own Corporate Background totally exposed for the world to see. The woman became a joke and will never live it down. No one deserved it more as she made her arrogant intentions clear and was totally exposed herself instead.

I could go on, but for you to say what you did demonstrates to me that you rely on the Corporate Media, which is a thing of the past to most people, especially young people who did not watch the Corporate Media for 'news'.

Jon Stewart, RT, Al Jazeera, the BBC, African News media, all covered OWS and every country in the world witnessed the brutality of the crackdown by the US on its own peaceful protesters.

And finally, having their own media paid off in court when those arrested appeared and the cops consistently lied about the arrests they made. OWS had footage of every single arrest from every angle and every case was dismissed due to that.

You could not be more wrong in terms of how they used the media. No one watches the US Corporate Media anymore. And OWS did not WANT them there for obvious reasons.

In polls taken shortly after it began, over 80% of the population KNEW who they were and 'approved' of their message. And their slogans passed into the mainstream within weeks and are now part of the English language.

It was brilliant. I never enjoyed watching real news in real time more all over the country and the world.

Oh yes, and then they published their own newspaper, 'The Occupied Wall St. Journal' which they distributed on the streets of NYC for free. It was professionally done with real publishers.

They showed us the way to NOT rely on the compromised Corporate Media.

And it worked. There is no one on this planet who has not heard of OWS and they did it without the Corporate media as planned.

[robinlynne]

133. i dont think you saw. the police beat people up here. They handcuffed epople in a bus and made them

sit there for 8 hours and pee on themselves without water or food. And yes Occupy is a force of good to this day. Occupy put wells fargo on their knees by simply occupying foreclosed homnes. Wells Fargo had to return the homes.

[HardTimes99]

164. Occcupy Los Angeles participant (part-timer) here. In August 2011, the talk among

the serious folk (of the Sunday talk-show ilk, that is) was of 'austerity' and consequent cuts to the social safety net.

By early October, that talk had disappeared, replaced by primitive class-based analysis centered around the "1%-99%" meme. Anytime, class consciousness is raised and parasitism foregrounded is a really, REALLY, good thing for this benighted land.

Yes, there were rag-tag conspiracy nuts and anti-government types involved. But the Ron Paul folk had pretty much vanished from OLA by mid-October. Can you blame folks for holding conspiracy views when, on the night of the final bust-up of the OLA camp (Nov. 30, 2011), some 5-6 OLA campers were seen publicly slipping back across LAPD lines to be welcomed with whoops and slaps on the backs by their LAPD brethren and sisters?

There was a lot of structure to the group, at least OLA. I served on the Facilitation Committee which was charged with staffing and running the nightly General Assemblies. On Monday, November 28, the GA had some 4,000 Angelenos in attendance, many drawn out by Villaraigosa's threat to send in his goon squad. The GA that night went off without incident, save for a rousing introductory speech given by Ron Kovic (of "Born on the 4th of July" fame). So much for there not being any structure.

Villaraigosa chose not to do it that night, probably because there were 4,000 people there and it would have given him a really black eye. But his goons had set up a security perimeter around OLA. I know b/c my wife and I encountered massive difficulties trying to leave and return to our car. As a side note, I will never vote for Villaraigosa for anything ever again, even if he somehow wins a Democratic nomination.

I have first-hand experience with the rights-violating LAPD and its pathetic little Eichmann in charge, Charlie Beck. So you really need to get some more exposure to the accounts of people who were actually there.

[starroute]

3. It doesn't have to be just one reason

Politicians feeling threatened because of their wealth and their insider trading and their hopes of lucrative lobbying jobs after they leave Congress is certainly one explanation.

A second is that our messed-up system of financing campaigns means that getting elected depends on pleasing the money people rather than pleasing your constituents.

A third is that party elites priorities their own power and influence over anything else, even getting candidates elected. In fact, keeping control of the party machinery often means they prefer running a dutiful robot to endorsing someone who might actually display signs of independence.

And a fourth is probably that there are people who sit down before every Congressional session with lists of who's already safely bought and sold and make plans for how to neutralize the others, with blackmail being one favored method and marginalization another.

But that's just Congress. When it comes to Occupy, there's the additional question of why so many big city mayors -- most of them Democrats -- were ready to role over and call in the cops at the first sign of dissent. There I suspect the influence of local elites, the same ones that are pushing gentrification and trying to sweep the homeless off the streets, but the mechanisms aren't as clear. Perhaps some fine-grain scrutiny of Cory Booker might help illuminate the process.

[Warren Stupidity]

4. They've been preparing for a repeat of the civil unrest of the 60s for 50 years.

That is the one thing that could lead to transformative change: widespread prolonged nonviolent civil unrest. Occupy was a test case for how to dismantle and destroy any hint of a popular movement. They were willing to apply as much force as neccessary to eliminate the publicly visible manifestations of discontent. They did just that.

[George II]

13. Occupy "Anything" cannot be compared to the civil unrest of the 60s...

...which had a mission, an objective, an organization, and they didn't "sieze" public or private property.

Occupy had none of the first three and they insisted upon doing the fourth, which angered even many progressives.

[Warren Stupidity]

15. I'm guessing you weren't around for the 60s.

We protested anything and everything, seized lots of stuff, public and private, rioted, insurrected, blew shit up, demonstrated with and without permits. Did you live through some other 60s?

[mimi85]

23. I was there

although I wasn't legal age until the 70s. We didn't see any of that. It wasn't that large of a group of people that did a few of the mentioned things. Mainly, it was sit-ins, making bead necklaces, going to concerts and mostly just being "mellow." Of course, we were west coast folks which was a bit calmer than on the east coast or in the major cities. The main unifying theme was the music. That component doesn't exist now. Taylor Swift number one hits do not a revolution make. Where are the Smother's Brothers these days? There were many interviewers like David Frost that asked the pertinent questions. In other words, there was a whole culture shift that is missing today.

[randome]

24. Again, not trying to minimize violence but...

...did the protesters of the 60s let a few 'busted heads' stop them?

Because the GA had no way to reject force, over time it fell to force. Proposals won by intimidation; bullies carried the day. What began as a way to let people reform and remake themselves had no mechanism for dealing with them when they didn’t. It had no way to deal with parasites and predators. It became a diseased process, pushing out the weak and quiet it had meant to enfranchise until it finally collapsed when nothing was left but predators trying to rip out each other’s throats.

By the time I returned to NY from visiting the camp in DC, exhausted with the pain of six evictions, the NYC GA was a place where women were threatened with beatings, and street kids with calls to the police. All the reasonable people had gotten the fuck out. It had become a gladiator pit no one enjoyed watching. Even Weev, the famous internet troll, didn’t last through the nastiness of the GA I took him to. He left while I wasn’t looking, without saying goodbye. We never spoke about it. I didn’t blame him, and I didn’t have to ask why. It was the tiny, brutal, and bitter politics of failed people.

http://www.wired.com/opinion/2012/12/a-eulogy-for-occupy/
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[Live and Learn]

74. Many of the protesters in the 60s

wouldn't "let a few 'busted heads' stop them" precisely because they were subject to being drafted and killed. That is quite a motivator.

Others didn't want their friends and loved ones killed. Still others realized it was a pointless war and didn't want anyone killed.

When people finally realize that the financial thieves that make up the majority of the 1 percent, are putting policies in place that will kill them and their loved ones, I predict the movement will come back with a vengeance.

[George II]

88. I sure as shit was, I was in high school college in the village at the time - from 1963 to 1970!

"We"? The mainstream civil disobedients at the time were NOT involved in seizing "lots of stuff", rioting, insurrecting, "blowing shit up", etc. Those were the radical fringe groups which set the bona fide civil right movements back and essentially accomplished nothing but "blowing shit up" etc. Tell me ONE group that "blew shit up" that did any good in the country whatsoever (and don't give me that tired line "well, it made people aware", that the age-old cop out when one can't say anything sensible).

[Warren Stupidity]

105. I never said blowing shit up did any good. I said it happened.

You seem to have this fictional history of the 60s as a bunch of orderly peaceful demonstrations lead by some central organization. It was never that. There were peaceful massive demonstrations. There were nationwide occupations of college campuses. There were huge riots in major cities. There were clearly defined "leadership" groups, and there were tons of self organized groups doing their own thing. There were armed groups engaged in armed insurrection. It was a chaotic period, especially from 1968-1975 or so, with all sorts of stuff going on. The civil rights era more or less ended with the assassination of MLK. The anti-war and black power movements replaced it and it was not centralized and orderly.

[roseBudd]

30. Occupy activists inhabited a bubble...

and had no apreciation for how they lost a lot of support, by being obsessed with camping in a park. Those were real working people whose bedroom windows bordered that park

[TomClash]

59. Zucotti Park?

Where exactly were the "real, working people whose bedroom windows bordered that park?" There aren't any apartments bordering the park except a few corporate luxury apartments.

[roseBudd]

179. Local Occupy activists...

in my city it was Piat Park, and those were 2nd and 34d and 4th floor apartments of working people. No buffer zone.

[AllyCat]

154. How did they lose support? Gee, could it have been the media in some part?

The media that reported little of what went on except that these people were squatters, drug addicts, housing criminals, a shelter for the homeless (how tragic, no?), defilement of property, and jobless?

How terrible those "with jobs" had to look out on that every night! I mean, they actually had to buy CURTAINS if they didn't want to see it! Somehow, people protesting injustice should not be allowed to persist if they interfere with "working people" and their sleep? I mean, how else do you, or anyone, sleep at night?

[roseBudd]

180. Thanks for exhibiting exactly how selfish the park campers were by discounting...

the importance of sleep for a Starbucks barista. In Cincinnati the mega rich do not live downtown

[AllyCat]

181. The Occupy Movement protests are futile because YOU lost sleep?

Do you say the same about other things that wake you in the middle of the night like emergency vehicles and airplanes?

[sabrina 1]

49. Clearly you have no idea what the plans for OWS were and are.

Having watched it before it even began, the plans, the people involved, many from the Civil Rights movements, you could not be more wrong. I'm sure there were those who attacked the Civil Rights Movement when it began also.

I kind of like that those who are opposed to Social Justice Movements think they have gone away though. Sometimes that makes it easier for those who care about justice and fairness.

[George II]

87. As it turned out, the majority of those "involved" in Occupy Wall Street had no idea of what...

....the plans for Occupy Wall Street were and are. That's why it essentially deteriorated into dozens if not hundreds of splinter groups all over the country, each with their own (and poorly articulated, if they had any anyway) objectives, strategies, etc. It got to be if anything was going on in the country, an "occupy" group sprung up. WHAT does the initial plans of Occupy Wall Street have to do with Steubenville, Ohio, or Hurricane Sandy, or any of the dozens of other actions spuriously named "Occupy (insert something here)"?

[sabrina 1]

91. And you prove my point again. OWS isn't really interested in people who sit around

on the internet spreading false information out of fear of their success. They are far too busy actually doing something worthwhile.

Your questions demonstrate how little you understand about Social Justice movements.

It is so wonderful to see something they never expected, all those thousands of groups who support them spring up all over, not just THIS country but all over the world. I am thrilled each time there is a new one.

They were beyond successful, and continues to grow every day.

[George II]

96. What were their objectives? What where their strategies? What were their long term goals?

What did they ultimately accomplish? What do "all those thousands of groups" have to do with Zucati Park?

[sabrina 1]

114. You mean you don't know the answers to any of those questions?

The time to ask questions about something is BEFORE you make authoritative statements only to end up proving you have no clue what you are talking about. That can be very embarrassing.

And that is what just happened here as your questions prove. It was pretty obvious though, so I'm not surprised.

[George II]

121. Ah, the ol' soft shoe....

....you keep saying that what I say "proves" something, but I haven't seen yet what it is. Pretty fancy footwork.

For the most part I know the answers to those questions. The most glaring answer is to the question about their long term goals, which are nothing since they're pretty much defunct now.

[sabrina 1]

126. Lol, with every comment it is more obvious that you don't have a clue

what OWS was and is all about. Not a clue.

I'll give you one clue. OWS did not have 'long term goals for their particular protest. They planned for only a TWO WEEK occupation AT MOST, and only in NY.

They so exceeded those goals when the occupation lasted a day more than two weeks and could have gone home completely victorious as all of their goals were more than accomplished by them.

That was it, at the most, two weeks and then go home.

But instead, more and more people joined them, the Unions, Veterans, older people, teachers, students, firemen, it just kept growing. Then the even more amazing thing happened, it spread to Chicago (they are still doing incredible work there, and LA and Oakland and Colorado, Maine, NJ, Texas etc and then across the ocean, to London, Dublin, Paris, Hong Kong, Japan, Australia, African nations and China.

It was AMAZING. So instead of going home after two weeks, their demonstrations grew bigger and bigger. And in the Fall of that Year one of the first INCREDIBLE GLOBAL OWS protest which was connected by the Social Media across the Globe took place. Italy, Spain, the music, the speeches were unbelievable, India, Egypt, Tunisa, everwhere and we could see it all, the people from all over the world, millions of them, all exposing Wall St corruption.

So they couldn't just go home after two weeks, the world wouldn't let them.

And now there is an actual Global People's movement in place, joining the the original Occupiers, the Indignados in Spain, who, among others, inspired OWS and they are ready to continue as all Social Justice Movements have in the past, to bring awareness of the corruption of Corporate Rule around the world.

When your goal is set at two weeks and one city, and your spread around the globe and are still going strong two years later, that is not just success, it is spectacular success.

They are working on issues now that badly needed attention, saving people's homes from foreclosure, very successful so far, building homes for the homeless, and one of their best recent projects has been their Student Loan Forgiveness program which is brllliant.

No, you don't know the answers to the questions you asked, you would have had to know the answer to 'what was their goal' first, which you did not.

[Fuddnik]

174. Why waste your time arguing with the clueless?

It just encourages them to keep it up.

Like trying to convert a teabagger.

[eilen]

129. I think that many of these large scale gatherings

in town squares and city centers brought people together and they learned things. They learned how to organize, how to perform civil disobedience, they learned about cooperative economies etc.

Then after the police drove everyone away, they set forth and are working on things such as the Rolling Jubilee, Occupy Our Homes, the Occupy Sandy (providing support and help to neighbors). I don't understand why people here don't get this movement. It is pretty radical. It is like a radical Christianity (like Catholic Worker or other intentional communities) in a way-- these people are living the life. The problems we face are so systemic that they are beyond solving via normal political process so we (and this is like the royal we) find our Calcuttas and get to work-- nonviolently but stubbornly. This is not in your face but where you turn around and see these things happening and they seem to be under the radar except when it is not. Except when it is your neighbor they are helping stay in a home. Except when it is your town's homeless they are feeding. You might be insulated from those in need of Occupy. Democrats on this list are very dismissive because most Occupyers have no use for their GOTV shit, it is irrelvent to their work because no matter who is sitting in DC, things are going to shit. The place they have most effect is in their communities.

[Progressive dog]

170. You are right.

The Occupy movement seemed to think that seizing public and private property was the objective.

[Flatulo]

82. Think of the modern urban police forces of today, and the terrifying firepower they possess.

In the sixties it was billy clubs and teargas. Today, there are sonic weapons, armoured personnel carriers, attack helicopters, drones, etc. all dressed up and no place to go.

There will be no mass insurrection.

[Throd]

7. Bong hits and bongos does not a revolution make.

What started out as a movement with great potential stopped being any kind of threat to the banksters in a matter of weeks. Disappointing.

[George II]

17. True....maybe months not weeks, but they imploded from within by watering down the so-called...

..."movement" - they began protesting and demostrating all sorts of things, totally destroying any credibility they might have had.

And when they built their "city" on private property and refused to leave after a reasonable amount of time, it confirmed their lack of credibility.

It started out with good intentions, but went off course and floundered by diluting their "objective". Not clearly stating that objectived didn't help, either.

The FBI may have been investigating it, but they surely didn't "infiltrate" it.

[TheJames]

101. To Sabrina 1, replying to George II's post:

This is infuriating to me. You, who were apparently involved with OWS in the real world have less credibility than the spun myth, even reporting real-world events that refute the myth. Why I have so few posts.
Thank you for your contributions to the discussion.

[Maedhros]

173. Occupy didn't allow its message to be co-opted by the DNC for election purposes.

That will always make it "unfocused" with "no message" to some people.

I find it interesting the number of theoretically "liberal" people (my closest friend is one of them) who feel the need to sneer at the Occupy Movement. Sure, there were problems, but the net effect was a paradigm shift in the national conversation regarding wealth distribution. The terms "99%" and "One Percenters" have entered the national lexicon.

For a grass roots movement, that's an outstanding success.

[obliviously]

19. exactly

It started failing when getting stoned, whats for supper and fucking the girl in the next tent without her permission became more important than the cause, which was another thing they never really could define.

[Bluenorthwest]

36. In my city, Occupy has a weekly mobile medical clinic, free to any and all. Each Sunday it is

available downtown to anyone who needs it, physicians, dentists, the works. This week the Mobile Clinic is spending Sunday in a nearby town because the regular location is 'occupied' by a yearly street fair so the help goes down the road.
This is just one of the several ways Occupy has impacted our local politics and social services scene. Feel free to post a link to the free clinic in your city run by 'Moderate Centrists' or whatever.
"COTTAGE GROVE — South Lane Mental Health and Occupy Medical are joining forces to offer free medical care on Sunday, something that those involved say they hope becomes an ongoing partnership.
The four-hour event will provide medical care, foot care, nutrition guidance and haircuts, all with no appointment needed. They are the same services that have been offered in downtown Eugene since a first-aid tent first sprouted at an Occupy Eugene encampment.
“This will be the first step in helping them establish a clinic,” Occupy Medical Clinic Manager Sue Sierralupe said. “We are presenting a showcase clinic. This is our first out-of-town clinic.”
http://www.registerguard.com/rg/news/local/30315793-75/medical-clinic-health-occupy-care.html.csp


So what ARE the 'centrists' doing for other this Sunday?

[George II]

89. All well and good, but the "Occupy" moniker is a misnomer...what does "Occupy Medical".....

...in your city have to do with the initial, and very vague, objectives of Occupy Wall Street in lower Manhattan?

[TheJames]

104. I'm thinking you "can't get it" George,

because "the main message" actually is very obvious. I've seen it from the beginning, from way over here in rural Texas. The message is simply that not every thing needs to bought or sold, and we don't need merchants to live our lives. That is an actuality in the real human world that has been programed out of a lot of us.
There are obviously, enormous ramifications to the profit/looting industries if/when this begins to become a reality in lots of peoples lives.

[George II]

110. I'm thinking you can't accept that I actually DO "get it", and "Occupy" zealots refuse to admit....

....that the so-called "movement" was an abject failure.

[Fire Walk With Me]

131. And how about armchair critics who for whatever reason must passionately post over and over and over

their =opinion= when it has nothing to do with reality? How is that not zealotry in reverse? You have some sort of an axe to grind and it's not based upon facts. Sorry. Methinks thou dost complain too much.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

39. In Minneaopolis, it concentrates on helping people who are being

unjustly foreclosed upon.

[Bluenorthwest]

50. That poster will not have the gumption to address either of our posts.

Getting stoned, starting a Free Clinic, that sort of thing. The Centrist types like to mock Occupy but they themselves do not accomplish anything but running up bills at the mall.

[mimi85]

43. So true!

Damn, I miss being young.

[sabrina 1]

52. That came right from Fox ... 'bong hits' lol!

Why do you watch those people? They are mind polluting.

OWS never intended to last longer than two weeks in one city.

Their success was overwhelming thanks mainly to the brutality of the attacks on them which gave them the support to remain way longer than they intended and spread across the country and the globe, which they never expected.

My advice? Don't go to Faux for 'news' or information on Liberals in general. 'Bong hits' that was one of the first attempted smears that came from Faux and FR. Do us a favor, if we wanted to see right wing garbage we know where to go to find it. We come here to avoid it.

[Demo_Chris]

95. Yep. nt

[NuclearDem]

119. Then you clearly don't know anything about OWS.

If you did, you'd know a lot of those protestors were professionals, students, academics, and parents, not drum circling, pot smoking hippies the MSM wanted you to believe they were.

[leveymg]

8. Same reason the same bunch of fatcats and their tin Generals did this in '32:

[Warren Stupidity]

16. Exactly.

[TomClash]

60. +1 nt

[warrant46]

106. Dugout Doug sends in the Army

Another great Moment in amerikan history </sarcasm>

[leveymg]

108. That photo says a lot about those who commanded the Bonus Army eviction.

[warrant46]

115. Shameful use of poison gas see below

At 4:45 p.m., commanded by Gen. Douglas MacArthur, the 12th Infantry Regiment, Fort Howard, Maryland, and the 3rd Cavalry Regiment, supported by six battle tanks commanded by Maj. George S. Patton, formed in Pennsylvania Avenue while thousands of civil service employees left work to line the street and watch. The Bonus Marchers, believing the troops were marching in their honor, cheered the troops until Patton ordered[citation needed] the cavalry to charge them—an action which prompted the spectators to yell, "Shame! Shame!"

Shacks that members of the Bonus Army erected on the Anacostia Flats burning after the confrontation with the military.

After the cavalry charged, the infantry, with fixed bayonets and adamsite gas, an arsenical vomiting agent, entered the camps, evicting veterans, families, and camp followers. The veterans fled across the Anacostia River to their largest camp and President Hoover ordered the assault stopped. However Gen. MacArthur, feeling the Bonus March was an attempt to overthrow the U.S. government, ignored the President and ordered a new attack. Fifty-five veterans were injured and 135 arrested.[11] A veteran's wife miscarried. When 12-week-old Bernard Myers died in the hospital after being caught in the tear gas attack, a government investigation reported he died of enteritis, while a hospital spokesman said the tear gas "didn't do it any good."[15]

[leveymg]

117. Arsenic gas used against unarmed demonstrators in Washington, DC.

Welcome to the wonderful world of historical context - have you ever seen any mention of this event in US major media?

I didn't think so.

[warrant46]

118. Never

The bonus marchers were compared to communists and anarchists--- today the great unwashed are muslins (sic) and their ilk

[leveymg]

123. At the time, they were viewed as heroes by people who were themselves heroic, such as Smedley Butler

It was the same Wall Street Fat Cats and tin horn Generals at the center of the Banker's Plot of '33 who rolled tanks down Pennsylvania Avenue. Same cast of characters:

Retired Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler, one of the most popular military figures of the time, visited their camp to back the effort and encourage them.[1] On July 28, U.S. Attorney General William D. Mitchell ordered the veterans removed from all government property. Washington police met with resistance, shots were fired and two veterans were wounded and later died. Veterans were also shot dead at other locations during the demonstration. President Herbert Hoover then ordered the army to clear the veterans' campsite. Army Chief of Staff General Douglas MacArthur commanded the infantry and cavalry supported by six tanks. The Bonus Army marchers with their wives and children were driven out, and their shelters and belongings burned.

A second, smaller Bonus March in 1933 at the start of the Roosevelt Administration was defused in May with an offer of jobs for the Civilian Conservation Corps at Fort Hunt, Virginia, which most of the group accepted. Those who chose not to work for the CCC by the May 22 deadline were given transportation home.[2] In 1936, Congress overrode President Franklin D. Roosevelt's veto and paid the veterans their bonus years early.

Similar split in the way the media dealt with the story at the time:

[TRoN33]

21. +10,000

Very well said.

[Marr]

22. I can only disagree with one word-- "allowed".

Occupy was huge revelation for me, personally. Not for their message-- with which I already agreed-- but for the way it blindsided the establishment, seemingly rising out of nowhere in a matter of days.

The fact is that it didn't come out of nowhere, of course. It came out of a very broad sentiment that was (and is) prevalent throughout the population. It was like a spark falling on dry grass. It only surprised the powers that be because they so deeply disregard the general public-- especially the left leaning parts of it.

I used to think that pushing the government to the left was next to impossible in the States, just because of the way the system was rigged, and how wealth was divided. But Occupy's rapid rise to prominence, and the business/government establishment's frantic and fumbling attempts to put a lid on it, was a demonstration of what real change looks like. It's very fast, and all the police and military in the world just looks like silly, three-steps-behind window dressing next to it.

There were lots of particulars in the case of Occupy that allowed the powers that be to undermine it and deflate it, yes, but that's what real change is going to look like in the US, when it eventually happens. And it won't matter one bit which corporate hack is sitting in the White House.

[roseBudd]

31. Occupy's one achievement was changing the conversation on income inequality

I follow business and economics writers on business and financial sites. Occupy started a conversation.

[tritsofme]

25. What a bunch of nonsense.

Occupy died out quite well on its own.

And then they continue with more ignorance like EEOC regulations, which obviously wouldn't apply to Congress due to separation of powers issues.

[TomClash]

61. Of course Congress could adopt similar regulations

And of course Congress passed the Acts that authorized the EEOC to adopt the very same regulations.

Why doesn't Congress follow the same rules everyone else does?

[MFrohike]

67. What?

Separation of powers issues? That makes no sense at all. That logic implies that no law is applicable to a member of Congress because of separation of powers.

[tritsofme]

73. Executive agencies cannot police the internal workings of Congress.

Due to separation of powers issues. That does not preclude Congress from passing it's own regulations, nor does it shield individual members of Congress from complying with the law.

[MFrohike]

76. Thanks

You made my point. There's no separation of powers because the regulation of members of Congress would be in their personal capacity as citizens, which is not prohibited. The only question is how you write the law, not whether the underlying goal is constitutional.

[tritsofme]

80. I'm not quite sure what your point was.

I never claimed members of Congress were above the law. However Congress as an institution (and to an extent it's members) is generally exempt from executive agency regulations.

[MFrohike]

84. I know

Your initial post was overly broad. My point was that the overly broad logic you first used would effectively put members of Congress above the law.

[socialist_n_TN]

28. Disagree with some of your last paragraph.......

Read some Marx and Engels. The ones with the most power are NOT the ones we "elect", as if we actually elect anyone anyway. We are give two choices, capitalist choice one and proto-fascist capitalist two and we're expected to be grateful we have a "choice". BOTH of those choices are bought and paid for by the owners of the means of production.

I do agree that DC was also threatened, but that's because their bosses behind the scenes were also threatened. Whether it was an actual conspiracy to bust up this relatively mild mannered petit bourgeoisie protest movement or not didn't really matter. They BOTH have the same goals and Occupy was a speed bump on the road TO those goals.

The next movement (and there WILL be a next movement) will be a whole lot more militant than Occupy and, hopefully, will engage the working class from the beginning. THAT is the class that has the historical mission of overthrowing capitalism and instituting a real democracy, a democracy of actual workers and not the parasites that feed off of the workers.

It's not over by a LONG shot.

[WillyT]

29. K & R !!!

[orpupilofnature57]

32. We need to admit Washington is now located on Wallstreet .

Our only recourse is to vote it back to the District of Columbia .

[geckosfeet]

33. But it goes far beyond Occupy. It is the legacy of the 1%. It is their privilege.

It always has been and always will be. They hold the reigns of power by virtue of their enormous wealth. People bow and cow tow to them.

Lobbyists. Congress. State reps all the way down the line. They all want their piece and won't upset the status quo because of that.

[marions ghost]

38. Occupy pointed the finger

squarely at the bankers and corporates. (They who control the politicians).

Occupy woke people up. And they are still awake.

[chervilant]

53. Yes, we

ARE still awake! And many more of us are waking up.

[marions ghost]

81. Connect

[Eleanors38]

146. Hear! Hear! This IS Occupy's on-going success!...

And there WILL be a bigger wave of activity. Where will it come from? At a minimum:

1) That "working class," flittingly referenced but out NOW in the personages of food workers striking for MONTHS with little acknowledgement, even HERE on DU. (Thanks to Omaha Steve for keeping the candle lit.)

2) Students AND their parents saddled with unconscionable life-long school debts.
______
All movements should be subject to self-criticism. To OWS supporters: How would you do things differently? Were mistakes made?

[marions ghost]

147. General scarcity and energy/environmental crisis also

--and finally people will realize that they are being exploited only to profit others.

[JEB]

168. Absolutely correct.

OWS put the brakes on the austerity train. Now is the time to get it off the rails for good.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

45. Easier to blame outside force. Occupy dissolved due to a lack of leadership. A choice.

It is always easier to blame failings on outside forces, and there certainly were lots of outside forces on the Occupy movements (plural).

However, the Occupy movements generally chose to be essentially leaderless as a political statement. Unfortunately, leadership is a power tool and when it is abandoned, then much effectiveness is lost.

[Live and Learn]

65. Sure, those beatings, rubber bullets, pepper sprays, tazings and arrests

had nothing to do with it!

[aquart]

68. Maybe all protests should be scheduled at the beach in good weather, too.

Now get out a history book and find out how unions were born, how women got the vote, how civil rights were won.

And then hang your dainty head in shame.

[Live and Learn]

70. Hanging my head in shame isn't my way.

The movement will get there if necessary.

All movements were first beaten down but they manage to come back even stronger when they are in the right. You must have forgotten those pieces of the historical records.

[ElboRuum]

120. Maybe...

But they had leadership. They had a political agenda. They participated in the legislative process.

Occupy's failure is not in that they say the system is broken. That's true. It is. Great, its been pointed out. It is arguable that this was particularly new because those of us who work for a living have been getting shit on for quite some time.

Their failure is in their failure to recognize what you so helpfully, if accidentally pointed out, and that is that all of the movements of the historical record you describe had organization and clear goals. I think it is safe to say that Occupy thinks it is a statement to operate outside the system. Well, maybe it is. The problem that although this idea is novel, it is not good. Sometimes the past is a warning, and sometimes it is a lesson.

All of those groups in the historical record understood one thing, and that was that the system can't be fixed from the outside. We are all a part of that system regardless of whether we want to be or not. And to fix the system from within, political power must be attained and exercised, leadership must be there to articulate goals, and goals must be cohesive and attainable.

As a liberal, and as a citizen, and as a member of the 99%, I definitely understood OWS's message, in principle, at the beginning. That they have no political agenda to fix the system is the bother. This is not a movement I can support, simply because the opportunities that this present are too damn important to let slide, and this is PRECISELY what they are doing.

To suggest that OWS didn't implode of its own volition, blaming infiltrations and whatnot, is kind of silly now that the "historical record" argument has been opened. In the historical record, successful movements survived, prospered, and achieved in the face of much greater resistance by authority.

Being right isn't enough. Never has been and never will be. If being right was enough, would we have the problems we have?

You need to be vocal and articulate. Why? Because if you aren't, you let your opponents write the narrative. As they have.

You need a leader. Why? Because a million people speaking all at once sounds like noise. One person speaking on BEHALF of a million people, at the fore of those million people is a reason to pay attention.

You can't turn this inward. The American people should be behind you, but they aren't. My own personal straw polls indicate that if you aren't a staunch liberal, you likely think that OWS and all of its splinter groups are at best a nuisance and at worst a joke.

I know OWS is not a joke. You know OWS is not a joke. I would love to see the rise of another liberal force in this country to replace the one that has been steadily been dismantled and marginalized since the 70's. But OWS is dying from self-inflicted wounds. At one point or another, someone has to step in front of the people of this country and say "this is what we are for, this is what we are trying to accomplish, and this is how we plan to do it." To date, this has not happened, and from what I see from OWS and their supporters, this is something they do not want to do.

That all said, I hope you are right. I hope some form of rebirth comes from this. There is real opportunity here and I'd hate to see it wasted on navel gazing and splintering and infighting. If what they are about is what I think they are about, then we are talking about the one issue that cuts to the core of the American sickness, the overtaking of our society by plutocrats from the top to its bottom, the systematic and purposeful redistribution of wealth from the middle class and the poor to the very rich. All because we've watched as the rich have maneuvered, manipulated, and propagandized us into removing an adequate definition of "enough" from our collective lexicon.

This is an opportunity from which we cannot look askance. An opportunity exists to truly change the way our political and social processes work. I sincerely hope you are right.

[Recursion]

149. You should really make that an OP (nt)

[Bernardo de La Paz]

135. Black rights endured beatings, dogs, bullets, fire hoses. They succeeded because of leadership. nt

[Fire Walk With Me]

132. In LA there was determined, repeated police harassement and targeting of activists for repeated

arrest and outright police attacks. Those who neither faced nor personally witnessed over a year of this can truly get how badly the powers that be wanted us GONE.

[formercia]

46. Occupy still Lives

Just waiting for the next Time they are needed. Occupy is Dead. Long Live Occupy.

[Bluenorthwest]

51. Dozens of people will be seen today by the Occupy Medical Free Clinic

Every Sunday.

[AllyCat]

158. This is great. I did not know about this and am looking to see if there is

something in my area for which I can volunteer. Thanks for the great suggestion!

[villager]

54. You're talking about a political apparatus that used domestic assassinations to begin

...its long post-war ascent to, and death-grip (literally) on, power in America.

So of course they were going to break up and infiltrate Occupy. At a minimum.

[bvar22]

58. OWS was the latest incarnation of the struggle for Economic Justice in America.

MY grandfathers who shed blood for Workers Rights in the LABOR movement would be proud of their offspring in OWS for continuing the struggle.
As such, it cannot die. It has written itself into the History Books.
It will appear again, and again, and AGAIN,
maybe with a different name in a different place,
but it will be the same Movement for Economic Justice it has always been.

The Encampments WERE brutally steam rolled and broken up by the forces of the 1%, but that didn't kill OWS. In fact, that HELPED OWS by exposing that the Nationally Coordinated Militarized Police Departments WILL enthusiastically attack and brutalized Their OWN People, who are protesting in their interests.
Who will EVER forget the "Pepper Spray Cop"?

The effect of the ripples from OWS can not be calculated.
Words and phrases coined at OWS have entered the Common Vernacular,
and are used around the World everyday, even by our President.
Changing the language is POWERFUL.

In some small ways, ripples from OWS are a contributory factor in exposing the
Government Over Reach in Security & Surveillance.

The Movement lives on, and will appear again, and again.
OWS did their part...very effectively,
and I am proud of their selfless contribution.

Our neighbors in Latin America have given us a Blue Print for "change".
Many countries HAVE wrested their governments from the hands of the Global 1%,
and reorganized their governments to help The People instead of just The RICH.
They have done this through near bloodless Ballot Box Revolutions.
Since the 1% TOTALLY owned the Media and the Governments in Latin America, they used Word of Mouth and locally (dis)organized peaceful resistance movements to Spread the Word.


[font size=3]When the Working Class and The Poor realize WE have more in common with each other
than we have in common with the 1%Elite and their Mouth Pieces in Washington, then WE can have "change" too![/font]

AS long as the 1% can keep us divided with Political Kabuki Theater,
then the Status Quo will prevail.

OWS stood up and told the Dominant Political Parties that "WE" (common cause above political allegiance) have had enough of your bullshit. Using the Militarized, Nationally Co-Ordinated Police to break up the encampments only helped unite those on the low end of our economy in Common Cause,
AND define the enemy.

That Local Common Cause spread throughout a Nation was the beginning of the successful Ballot Box Revolutions in Latin America.




VIVA the Movement for Economic Justice!
VIVA OWS!
VIVA Democracy!
...because we outnumber "them"

[Dustlawyer]

63. More and more people are opening their eyes to the power behind the proverbial throne!

The next big protest needs only one goal, to push COMPLETE CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM (CCFR)! Publicly funded elections would take away the shadow government. To get to that point will require an army of committed protestors and campaigners. It will take many new candidates that will pass these measures. It will also take the realization from the other politicians that they must do as we say, or be voted out. They will throw everything at us, money, police, the media, it will be a fight for control of the country! Enough have to be able to see the truth, that our system of government has been completely corrupted, to have a chance to prevail. The NSA spying will be used against us as well. We need to march, and vote, and remember, not all of the bad politicians have a R next to their name, there are plenty with "D's" beside their names too!
Who knows if we can pull it off, but we never will if we don't try!

[geek tragedy]

69. Occupy collapsed because it had no plan to succeed.

Camping in a public parks across the country only succeeded in alienating local governments and PDs.

This crapola about a national conspiracy to silence OWS is a myth born of an exaggerated sense of what OWS was actually accomplishing, plus the standard persecution paranoia. (The local police would NEVER evict people from a park after dark, it must be Obama!).

Please.

[Live and Learn]

71. I thought repeating untruths over and over to make it sound true was a Republican strategy.

I see some dems are adapting the strategy too.

[geek tragedy]

77. No, it's living in denial and wallowing in absurd conspiracy theories that's a Republican trait.

"US government cracked down on OWS because it was a threat" is as nutty as "Obama was born in Kenya."

Occupy failed because anarchism doesn't work as a strategy. Never has, never will.

[Live and Learn]

92. The United States was formed by anarchism.

And your conspiracy theory similarities fail the logic test.

[geek tragedy]

98. Anarchists can own slaves? nt

[Live and Learn]

109. Apparently they could. What a silly retort. nt

[Savannahmann]

97. History begs to differ

The French Revolution, The various Irish rebellions which led to their freedom (excepting North Ireland of course). Anarchism as you describe it, a gathering of people with grievances, some real, some imagined, some lonely, is how everything always starts. The American Revolution didn't begin when a majority of the people woke up on July 4th 1776 and decided they'd had enough. It was building for years, some say decades. Do you think all those who overthrew Batista in Cuba had a unified set of goals? I'm sure that everyone who overthrew the Shah of Iran in 1979 were of a like mind and all had agreed ahead of time on the future shape of their nation.

No, it was a group of people, who were joined by other groups, all of which had a target they were unified upon with their grievances, if not their solutions. The Constitution took eleven years to get right. It took two more to get it accepted by all the former colonies. The Revolutionary War was over years before, but through the anarchism, long discussion, long periods of thought, compromise, and finally agreement.

Revolutions are not begun with a fixed destination in mind. Only that the current situation will continue no longer. The wrongs, real and perceived, have become intolerable. What comes after is almost never considered while the people are fighting to end the abuses. Those that ended the French Monarchy were probably unaware of what the future Government of France would look like. The Peasants who stormed the streets probably had no idea that the Czar would be replaced by a Premier and a Politburo. They just knew that the current system was going to end, or they would die trying.

[Fire Walk With Me]

75. A howling silence regarding Occupy from the Democratic party was very obvious.

Then, most of the most brutal and persistent attacks upon Occupy came from "democratic" mayors. Bloomberg being wallstreet/independent.

Most definitely, those who take money for political favor did not want it revealed.

Roll call for representatives with financial investment in the tarsands and TransCanada's KeystoneXL
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023364369

Lawmakers Who Upheld NSA Phone Spying Received Double the Defense Industry Cash
http://deepthought.newsvine.com/_news/2013/07/30/19773586-lawmakers-who-upheld-nsa-phone-spying-received-double-the-defense-industry-cash-slashdot

The Democratic party is partially corrupt and does not want it to change.


Also:

The Corporate Strategy to Win The War Against Grassroots Activists: Stratfor’s Strategies
http://www.popularresistance.org/heres-how-the-corporations-defeat-political-movements/

Divide activists into four groups: Radicals, Idealists, Realists and Opportunists. The Opportunists are in it for themselves and can be pulled away for their own self-interest. The Realists can be convinced that transformative change is not possible and we must settle for what is possible. Idealists can be convinced they have the facts wrong and pulled to the Realist camp. Radicals, who see the system as corrupt and needing transformation, need to be isolated and discredited, using false charges to assassinate their character is a common tactic.

Part 1 of this exclusive Mint Press News investigation examined the strategies employed by Stratfor precursor Pagan International. So named for its founder Rafael Pagan, corporate clients hired the company with the aim of defusing grassroots movements mobilized against them around the world.

8 Reasons Young Americans Don't Fight Back: How the US Crushed Youth Resistance
http://www.filmsforaction.org/news/8_reasons_young_americans_dont_fight_back_how_the_us_crushed_youth_resistance/#.UhZ1YsMTgSA.twitter …

1. Student-Loan Debt. Large debt—and the fear it creates—is a pacifying force. There was no tuition at the City University of New York when I attended one of its colleges in the 1970s, a time when tuition at many U.S. public universities was so affordable that it was easy to get a B.A. and even a graduate degree without accruing any student-loan debt. While those days are gone in the United States, public universities continue to be free in the Arab world and are either free or with very low fees in many countries throughout the world. The millions of young Iranians who risked getting shot to protest their disputed 2009 presidential election, the millions of young Egyptians who risked their lives earlier this year to eliminate Mubarak, and the millions of young Americans who demonstrated against the Vietnam War all had in common the absence of pacifying huge student-loan debt.

snip

2. Psychopathologizing and Medicating Noncompliance. In 1955, Erich Fromm, the then widely respected anti-authoritarian leftist psychoanalyst, wrote, “Today the function of psychiatry, psychology and psychoanalysis threatens to become the tool in the manipulation of man.” Fromm died in 1980, the same year that an increasingly authoritarian America elected Ronald Reagan president, and an increasingly authoritarian American Psychiatric Association added to their diagnostic bible (then the DSM-III) disruptive mental disorders for children and teenagers such as the increasingly popular “oppositional defiant disorder” (ODD). The official symptoms of ODD include “often actively defies or refuses to comply with adult requests or rules,” “often argues with adults,” and “often deliberately does things to annoy other people.”

[ForgoTheConsequence]

79. Watch Barney Frank flap his gums on Real Time.

Democrats were pissed because they couldn't take over OWS like the Republicans took over the Tea Party. OWS was smart enough to know that Wall Street has their hands in both parties.

[Little Star]

83. k&r

[TBF]

93. I do understand - they had the audacity to utter the word "class".

I'm not worried though - the next incarnation will be a little more experienced, a little less naive, and a little more disciplined. And I am absolutely sure there will be another incarnation as conditions continue to worsen for most of us.

[quakerboy]

94. Its interesting reading through the thread

The vastly diverging perceptions of people who participated/interacted with in Occupy VS the ones who stayed home and watched it on CNN.

[Live and Learn]

107. +1 nt

[notundecided]

112. S17

planning is going on in NYC right now. All you folks who were clamoring for leaders are welcome to the the meetings, and all you folks who are clamoring for singular demands are welcome too. What do ya say.

[KoKo]

99. Indeed...as we get farther from there...more is revealed.

Still the value of what they did was to put the MEME of the "1% into the MSM."

Creatomg that MEME...and TALKING POINT for a lazy bought out or discouraged MSM was a great accomplishment.

And for that...the Original Occupy Movement will be in the History Books for what comes after. It Framed the Issue in a way that all of us can understand. The One Percent....it OWNS US...and our Politicians, Government and works on Wall Street and through Think Tanks and Wealthy Individuals to Rewrite our Constitution. It's infiltrated our Education, Banking, Health Care, Insurance and goes to our very RIGHT to EXIST on this EARTH if we are Not...one of the 1% who bring the wealth to trickle down to the peasants.

That we don't appreciate them Enough...is their Anger. That we are fighting back against More Wars is their despair......... They think they are the Truth Seekers who are Reforming Government for "the people.." But, it's "THEIR PEOPLE"...and not the rest of us.

[JEB]

171. Precisely correct.

[madrchsod]

124. every organization or movement that threatens the status quo has informants

the problem is how to identify the informants. the problem with occupy it didn't connect with the people it hoped to influence

[eilen]

134. Oh really? Who do you think is working on the

strikes for Raise the Wage in the retail food industry?

Who do you think are many of the feet on the ground at Moral Mondays? That may as well have been Occupy Charlotte.

They may not all agree, see everything the same way but they do all agree on one thing-- things cannot continue this way.

During the Occupy weeks, people learned things, they made connections, they held seminars on how to organize-- locally, coordinate with others, find what is important in your community.
Those are Occupiers living their mission.

[stevenleser]

130. Loved Occupy and was down there every chance I got. I donated blankets and chairs, etc.

I don't think it was infiltration that broke them up so much as a police crackdown. At least here in NYC. OWS never recovered from being thrown out of Zucotti park.

[mick063]

136. Hillary is one of those that you described.

Democrats are gushing over her.


We are fucked.

[joshcryer]

137. The fact that feds were involved is uncontroversial.

What is controversial is how that is handled. You either discuss direct action and what to do about things and simply make agreements to act or not. Or you challenge those who participate in civil disobedience and tell them to cut it out.

With civil disobedience being the key driver of the activism, the latter option will kill your movement.

And that's precisely what happened. Read "The Cancer of Occupy" and watch how Occupy literally dwindled after the flag burning incidents caused so much moral panic.

Occupy wasn't broken up, it was divided internally, primarily by people like Hedges' and his Cancer of Occupy tripe. Occupiers are still doing great things, just look at Hurricane Sandy for an example, the houses being built, etc.

[Leopolds Ghost]

163. Yep. Or watch the movie about Occupy where Kevin Zeese takes credit for it n/t

[blackspade]

138. +1000

[dreamnightwind]

141. The politicians are errand-boys

They are not the power that stopped Occupy. They are small-time actors that give a human face to fascism, the illusion of freedom and democracy.

The money is where the power is. The oligarchs decide what they want, send their armies of lobbyists to D.C. and state houses across the country, and they literally tell the politicians what to do, hand them pre-written legislation to shepherd, along with handing them cold hard cash for their campaigns, cushy jobs for their family members, sparkly perks like Super Bowl tickets and vacation junkets, etc. The politicians, most of them, are small-time middle men, hoping to land a nice fat corporate paycheck after they are done serving the people.

I agree with you that the rules should also apply to Congress, especially involving things like insider trading. But I don't agree that that had much to do with stopping Occupy.

What really stopped Occupy was the mobilization of a previously unseen militarized police force that quite literally destroyed the camps of the Occupiers, confiscating their works and their property, jailing participants, violently beating any who weren't compliant enough. They systematically moved in, town after town, city after city, and destroyed the camps.

So Occupy scattered, went underground. They no longer have the visible presence of public space. There is no longer any commons in the U.S. that is available for expression of dissent. Occupy splintered into many smaller efforts, many of them quite effective, though their scale is limited.

It will be back, perhaps by another name. The conditions that led to the emergence of Occupy worsen rather than improve, guaranteeing a re-emergence.

A couple of oldies but goodies:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12526908
DHS officials shared and coordinated strategies (crackdown to evict Occupy protests)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022100704
Naomi Wolf: "Revealed: How the FBI Coordinated the Crackdown on Occupy"

Perhaps the saddest thing to me in the Occupy era was how the Democratic Party was largely (and correctly) viewed by the movement as part of the problem, rather than part of the solution. Our party no longer represents the 99%, it pays us lip service while out of sight its pockets are being filled with corporate money, and its "solutions" are little more than boiler-plate corporate legislation. We absolutely have to change that.

[Savannahmann]

143. The Politicians are a power unto themselves.

Look at the Wall Street bail outs. Lehman Brothers, saved. Merrill Lynch saved as well. Bear Sterns, down the toilet it went. Now, I don't know what the people behind Bear Sterns did to draw the wrath of those in Washington, but I can only assume that it was something pretty bad.

Bear Stearns was the second biggest trading house, and they went down the toilet. Numbers one and three were saved, but not number two. Seems strange to me that the decision was made that way. The rich are the mega rich because of the access to the one customer base that can't take their business elsewhere. We can avoid Walmart in favor of Costco, and Walmart loses the profit from our purchases, and Costco gets our profits. But we can't take our business from the US Government very easily. Since there was a Navy Aviation, there has been Grumman aircraft. Grumman built aircraft that the Navy loved. Strong, reliable, and powerful. Grumman Wildcats led us into World War II. The Grumman Goose helped save many pilots and conduct search and rescue operations. Grummen Hellcats were the premier fighter in the same war. Grummen Avengers, Grumman Panthercats, Tomcats, Intruders, COD's, Hawkeye aircraft.

All were Grumman aircraft. Now look at it. All the Navy has of Grumman aircraft currently is the COD's, the Hawkeye's, and a handful of old Intruders. All the others have been retired in favor of Lockheed. Lockheed S-2 Vikings, Lockheed F-35's, and those are replacing McDonnald Douglass, F/A-18s.

Grumman has lost pretty much all of it's business. Now, the company that came up with the Gulfstream jet, is reduced to building trucks, and even UPS isn't buying them anymore.

Do you see what I mean about Politicians having a whole bunch of power? They decide which of the plutocrats succeed, and which fail. Grumman who built the Lunar Lander is reduced to building UPS trucks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman

I bet we both know several companies that failed because of decisions of the Government. I bet the readers here can name a dozen more.

[libdude]

144. Occupy Wall Street

was indeed becoming an issue for the elites that control America. Why? They were exposing just exactly what has happened to this country and who is responsible, and were beginning to become part of the national conversation. OWS was gaining notoriety on the money controlled media outlets, generating books written on topics being promulgated by OWS. They were and still are a threat to the established order of the elites. If you control the message, you control what the majority thinks, if you control the political processes, it makes no difference if it is a Republican or Democratic administration, who controls the Senate or House, the overall direction of the country is still in support of sustaining and advancing the interests of the elites. Thinking that this is not the case, well, how is that hope and change working out? A Democratic President that describes himself as a 1980's style Republican, really.
Chained CPI, NSA domestic data gathering, not vetoing increases in the student loan interest rates. Etc.
Thanks OWS for the elightenment.

[whoiswithme]

150. The movement did die, and painfully so.

I for one am happy to have seen the occupy movement start and make it's run. I think it's sad that it didn't succeed.

The biggest reason for this is that the movement scared people. It has a socialist side that scared republicans and a tea party side (limited government) that scared democrats. I think that had the movement focused on what I think were it's true ideals (limited government, decrease in corruption) and then effectively communicated them, it would have gotten a lot of support across the political spectrum. I think there are a lot of true conservatives and true liberals that can actually agree on a lot of things (note that I used the term conservative and liberal, not democrat and republican). I think that most of us are upset about the things our government is doing and want to have more personal freedoms, or at least not to lose the ones we have.

[Leopolds Ghost]

160. I don't want to think it that way. But you make a good point

The #1 problem with occupy is the same problem with counterculture movements where they remain aloof and refuse to self-identify as such, much less identify with the populace (i.e. people who remain on the sidelines). For instance, grunge music died because bands refused the label and insisted on not sounding like Kurt Cobain. Similarly, I have a problem convincing serious Occupy activists that the label is still relevant or, failing that, that "they"/we need to rebuild the Occupy movement under a different label.

[Leopolds Ghost]

155. I still want to know why not just Occupy but two groups I personally voluneer(ed) for

Were very deliberately infiltrated and disrupted by human intelligence for their political beliefs.

In both cases, the new Administration not only said nothing but in the latter case the
Democratic governor, who is now the 2nd most liberal person in the running for 2016,

actually issued a statement supporting the (human) surveillance, even though
the group in question was advocating for something he agreed with.

These were small groups, BTW. You want to know why I never get to talk about
activism on DU? It's the same reason I rarely stop by anymore. I miss DU.

especially a few months ago when the board was flooded with pro-spying people.

[snooper2]

156. Um, I thought it was because of Spring Break

[Leopolds Ghost]

161. ...

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

162. Yes! It was perceived as....

A beginning of an American Revolution. Needed to be marginalized and stopped.
Easy, peasy, lemon squezzy.

[Cryptoad]

166. Like it or not

that is way the game is played,,,,,,,, you will accomplish more by changing the rules of the game than bucking them!

[merrily]

167. Occupy is not broken up. Occupy activities are still going on all over the US.

Find the website of the Occupy nearest you.

[felix_numinous]

172. How are citizens of a country supposed to be heard,

when all previously available legal methods are being cut off? When simply disagreeing, never mind calling attention to heinous crimes is hazardous to your health and safety?

What, pray tell, all the OWS and whistleblowing critics, are people supposed to do when the right to peacefully assemble is now being interfered with?

When the proven hackable voting machines
and racist purges masquerade as democratic elections? When only 'the pre approved' candidates are even allowed to be seen debating at presidential elections?

I have NEVER gotten a clear SOLUTION from those who are in full blown denial that this system is now in a corrupted state of dysfunction that in no way resembles a democracy or the republic we have strived to be.

So this is why peaceful resistance must go forward, otherwise we will have to line up at the lobotomy clinic to have our frontal lobes severed and thrown out.