TOM TOMORROW: Snowden & Manning On Parallel Earth!

[Hissyspit]

Last edited Mon Aug 26, 2013, 10:40 AM - Edit history (1)

Daily Kos Link: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/26/1233713/-Parallel-Earth

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[Ichingcarpenter]

1. Manning gets 35 years of daily parades.

Tom as usual.... rocks

[me b zola]

2. K/R

[n2doc]

3. I wanna move there! n/t

[Jim Lane]

78. There's a downside.

Just remember that, because of a quirk in their electoral system, a small, cute dog became President of the United States. The guy you see in today's strip is the small, cute dog's successor.

[uponit7771]

4. Still don't understand supporting people who NEEDLESSLY put others in harms way and with

...Snowden it was der spiegel who said he gave them intel that would harm agents in the field.. you know... the lackys of the Obama admin der spiegel.



There was another way to go about getting the discussion in the public eye and it was not to disseminate info and intel that harms folk

[Egalitarian Thug]

8. And you probably never will, unless it directly effects you personally. n/t

[uponit7771]

24. It has and I still don't mine relative to putting people in harms way. I"m black, I'm seldom not

...a suspect...

That world is nothing new to me

[Marr]

46. I can't decipher that comment. /nt

[uponit7771]

48. "surveillance" HAS... HAS directed me personally... Putting people NEEDLESSLY in harms way STILL is

...crime

[NealK]

82. Huh?

[GoneFishin]

42. He must mean Dick Cheney outing Valerie Plame.

[Dragonfli]

11. People are mysterious, I can't understand people supporting harsh punishment of those exposing

crimes against humanity or in other cases the very Constitution (the one thing our electeds and military swear to protect by oath) while cheering on the good fortune of the criminals exposed that enjoy the fruits of declared (yet illegal) Nuremberg defenses that absolve them of atrocities such as torture, genocide and repeated violations of our Constitution.

It is like punishing the hero that called the authorities on a sexual abuser that enslaved 5 year olds and giving that person decades in prison for "snitching" while ordering the police to not arrest the deviant because "it is their job to rape" or some other nonsense, even giving the rapist life long financial, security and health benefits for committing rape while on the job.

People are strange and at times vile in what and who they support, yes indeed they surely are.

It must be an organized crime code of ethics, "snitches get stitches", while "murderers are respected having made their bones".
I guess our top law makers have more in common with the mob than they do with the common man, the ice-pick wielding maniacs and their equally "made" replacement Dons have a strange groupie appeal as well.

I suppose those that hate snitches and defend criminals would marry their Manson's if they could.

It must be hard knowing you can observe the lunatics you love and support them, openly hating the "snitches" that "rat them out", but never being able to marry them or touch them as you would like.

Keep your chin up, a pound of flesh a year will be extracted from the snitches to feed your vengeance, and you may keep a nice altar to the lunatics you can only love from afar, things aren't as bad as they may appear for crime lovers and groupies.

Smile, the bad (that is really cool) guys have won!!

[uponit7771]

26. I can, if they did it illegally when there was a definative legal way of going about it

[Ocelot]

13. Nobody was harmed

Unless you can name names and point to specific examples, you can't prove that anyone was harmed. On the other hand, a bunch of US contractors who were selling Afghan children to warlord perverts were exposed. You seem to be going to bat for the warlord perverts.

[uponit7771]

27. The needless increase in potential of harm is a crime in and of itself.

[Warren Stupidity]

31. that sentence of yours is a crime against humanity. please report to the hague.

[uponit7771]

37. Your ad hominem = weak position

[Warren Stupidity]

62. ad nuntium

I attacked your message. Your sentence was a crime against humanity. At least get the fallacy right, although ad nuntium is not a fallacy.

[questionseverything]

75. are you really defending

adults that used children as sex toys?

because that was part of what was uncovered

are you saying that should not have been stopped?

[Ocelot]

51. I notice you're downgrading the "harm" level now

There's a big difference between imaginary harm and REAL harm. Show us some real harm that happened.

[Dragonfli]

60. I believe this person is concerned about the potential "harm"

to criminals whose crimes have been exposed by such whistle blowers. The poster may have a point, criminals are often sent to prison or face other "harm" as the result of being exposed, there is a reason such criminal types deal with "snitches" so harshly, to them it is self defense against "rats" that could expose them to the prosecution and punishment that they fear.

On the other hand, no such harm to the criminals that were exposed has yet to manifest, so perhaps the concern for them displayed by Up is a bit premature or needlessly pessimistic, they appear well protected along with their crimes.

[nashville_brook]

80. +1

[GliderGuider]

58. In what universe?

We don't sentence people for "increasing the potential for crime". If we did, everybody who left their front door unlocked would be in jail.

That's an odd world-view if you ask me.

[nashville_brook]

79. ^^^^ THIS ^^^^ classic down-thread walk-back

[bvar22]

23. Once again:

Snowden turned over classified documents to a handful of NEWSPAPERS.
The Editors & Staffs of these newspapers THEN decided what they would publish.

So far, there has NOT been a verified report of a single person hurt by Snowden's Whistle Blowing,
.
.
.
.
unless YOU would like to report such an incident here?... now?
Please remember to include the supporting documentation.

[uponit7771]

28. ...and one of the newspapers said what he released would put agents in danger.

...and the newspaper is pretty credible.

Manning, same thing just not from news paper.


There was a better way of going about what they wanted and getting a slower but better result than puttnig people in harms way

[Ichingcarpenter]

30. NO LINK....... NO DEAL

Try again

[uponit7771]

33. I give you a link and you'll change your mind on them?! NO! I don't beleive that for a second...

...looing through last weeks post

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/secret-documents-nsa-targeted-germany-and-eu-buildings-a-908609.html

SPIEGEL has decided not to publish details it has seen about secret operations that could endanger the lives of NSA workers. Nor is it publishing the related internal code words.

[Ichingcarpenter]

34. No I will read your link go ahead but

then post it in an separate OP for all to examine.

[uponit7771]

36. I has been posted multiple times, people don't care that they NEEDLESSLY put peoples lives in danger

...they care about being sKeered of "the government'.

NEEDLESSLY in that they didn't even try a path that would've rendered a legal way to blow the whistle...what they did was leak information and do it indiscriminately.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/secret-documents-nsa-targeted-germany-and-eu-buildings-a-908609.html

SPIEGEL has decided not to publish details it has seen about secret operations that could endanger the lives of NSA workers. Nor is it publishing the related internal code words.

[GoneFishin]

44. Oh, the proper channels argument.

[uponit7771]

49. So your position is to NOT support the "proper channels" because of their imperfections?!

...right...

This is the same argument that 2a folk use to support SYG.. the police don't have to protect you so dont call them...protect yourself.


it's stupid

[GoneFishin]

53. Insiders have already stated clearly that there are no functioning channels for whistleblowing.

To continue to make this argument is either naive or deliberately deceptive.

It's laughable and transparently impotent.

[Deny and Shred]

54. Sen. Wyden is finding those 'proper channels' ...

... oh so productive. Whether capitalized or not, needless is in the eye of the beholder. Exposing crimes against humanity, abuses of national security clearances, secret unconstitutional programs, hoping for some element of translucence never mind transparency, some here find a need for that, even if it requires breaking the national security Omerta.

As for legality, there are laws that ought not be on the books. Some women in the MidEast would agree, as would undesirables in 1930s Germany, among many other examples.

[Ichingcarpenter]

61. Read it .........however ....

This is the agreement they had before receiving the data


Anyway very good article thanks, I mean that.

And just now from the data they received.
SPIEGEL has revealed illegal US spying on the UN without endangering agents.


U.S. spy agency bugged UN headquarters


Der Spiegel said the European Union and the UN’s Vienna-based nuclear watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), were among those targeted by U.S. intelligence agents.

In the summer of 2012, NSA experts succeeded in getting into the UN video conferencing system and cracking its coding system, according one of the documents cited by Der Spiegel.

“The data traffic gives us internal video teleconferences of the United Nations (yay!),” Der Spiegel quoted one document as saying, adding that within three weeks the number of decoded communications rose to 458 from 12.

Internal files also show the NSA spied on the EU legation in New York after it moved to new rooms in autumn 2012. Among the documents copied by Snowden from NSA computers are plans of the EU mission, its IT infrastructure and servers.

According to the documents, the NSA runs a bugging program in more than 80 embassies and consulates worldwide called “Special Collection Service”. “The surveillance is intensive and well organized and has little or nothing to do with warding off terrorists,” wrote Der Spiegel.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/us-spy-agency-bugged-un-headquarters-germanys-der-spiegel/article13944336/

NO AGENTS WERE HARMED RELEASING THIS STORY

[DontTreadOnMe]

32. "Snowden turned over classified documents"

Have you seen ALL the documents?

You KNOW everything that he took?

You are now an expert on said documents?

Did you just let out a large fart?

[bvar22]

64. No.

Snowden turned over classified documents to a handful of NEWSPAPERS. The Editors & Staffs of these newspapers THEN decided what they would publish.

The above is documented HISTORY.
NO "leak" from Snowden has appeared from any other source.

Unless YOU can document a case to the contrary,
YOU have nothing but Hot Air erupting from whatever bodily orifice you choose.

That is how it works here.
You don't get to Just Make Stuff Up
no matter how badly you want it to be true.

[DontTreadOnMe]

88. So there you go... "documented history"... but you don't KNOW what is in the documents

Only 3 people know what are in those documents. The NSA (they might not even know everything he copied), Snowden himself, and a few media outlets that have NOT disclosed the information.

So when anyone here on DU makes a claim that they KNOW what is in those documents... it just a large fart.

There could be some evidence, there might be nothing at all....

[caseymoz]

68. And you know if Der Spiegel says that, it's true.

Obviously, because they say it in German.

Please enlighten everyone on this "other way" to get the discussion in the public eye. Something that doesn't put Snowden in harms way, either.

I'm beginning to think it's barely staying in the public eye now, after Snowden did what must be the most spectacular publicity stunt in the history of the world. That is, if he didn't do it in fear for his life.

[sabrina 1]

73. Then you won't be supporting any war on Syria, putting our troops and

as we know from Iraq, untold hundreds of thousands of innocent Syrian civilian lives at risk.

I still can't understand people who will cheer for one of the most medieval forms of human rights abuses where millions of lives are placed at the worst kind of risk imaginable, yet oppose those who try to stop these massive crimes.

I wish someone explain how anyone can equate someone yelling 'stop, stop killiing people' to 'harming' them, while at the same time cheering for something that is guaranteed to eliminate untold numbers of human beings, men, women and children from the planet. Or be supportive of cowardly drone attacks which most certainly have caused unbelievable harm to innocent people.

However if you are opposed to all of our wars for profit and to our reprehensible drone attacks, then at least you are consistent on the issue of 'harm', although I still don't see how warning people of wrong doing in terms of harming human beings qualifies as being concerned about 'harm'.

[Scuba]

5. Tom nails it. Again.

[krispos42]

6. k&r n/t

[Octafish]

7. K&R for Truth Tellers

Thank you, Tom Tomorrow! Thank you, Hissyspit!

[suffragette]

9. K&R

[1-Old-Man]

10. "Its about nothing less than the future of our Democracy"

Truer words are rarely spoken.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

12. "You won't find Democrats on parallel earth making excuses for the surveillance state."

This.

[DirkGently]

14. Tom Tomorrow, flinging truth at the walls of insanity once again

... and hearing it kind of go splat.

[SidDithers]

15. Thankfully, most people live in the real world...

and not the fantasy world that colours everything Tom Tomorrow produces.

Sid

[Hissyspit]

18. Thankfully Manning received a harsher sentence than Bush or Cheney or CIA torturers?

Really?

[uponit7771]

50. Yes, manning wasn't voted for anyone to do anything Bush was even though it was illegitimate

...IMHO

[Hissyspit]

52. Voting = Free To Torture/Commit War Crimes

Got it.

[DJ13]

35. So when are you moving to the real world?

[Dragonfli]

38. For once you're right Sid, in the real world the snitches are getting stitches

Last edited Mon Aug 26, 2013, 12:51 PM - Edit history (1)

While the murderers are being "made".

having made their bones they are (in this real world) now free to enjoy prosperous lives under the protection of the various Nuremberg defenses that claim torture, illegal war, genocide and attacks on the constitution they hold in contempt are all part of the job and thus beyond conviction or criticism.

That horrible world described by Tom is nothing more than a cartoon and the ethics of corruption are safe from "rats" that would bring such sanctioned crimes to light.

Why you are pleased by this is a bit confusing to me, but you are nonetheless correct the real world is nothing at all like the alternate world in the strip.

[zeemike]

55. ^^^this^^^

Cause in the real world murders, tortures and criminals get rewarded and is normal so it must be right...and whistle blowers just get in the way of that and must be punished.

[whatchamacallit]

45. Yes, thankfully we live in this fucked up, corporate ruled, perpetually warring dystopia

Yay us! As usual, Sid, pathetic.

[NealK]

83. +1

Well said.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

76. You're never going to get that America Lite Honorary Day Badge spelling 'color' like you just did.

I'm here to help.

[Skittles]

81. LOLOL

you are one of few left who I have not put on Ignore, just for the entertainment value

[ctsnowman]

16. K & R

The meet the press panel is priceless.

[Erose999]

17. All that was missing was parallel Chuckles.

I miss that adorable little bastard.

[markiv]

19. Nice deserved shot at David Gregory of Meet the Press nt

[Hydra]

20. Again, Tom leaves a mark!

*Ouch* Where did we leave our sanity?

[Solly Mack]

21. K&R

!

[xocet]

22. ALERTING on the call-out in panel two, speech bubble two, line four....

It is not nice to call anyone a mindless authoritarian....





Just kidding.

[bvar22]

25. Yes. The mindless authoritarians especially hate that one.

DURec for Tom Tomorrow!

[corkhead]

40. I think it's ok as long as it isn't posted in the BOG

[Fuddnik]

66. Is anyone allowed to post in the BOG?

I lasted one whole post.

I inadvertently replied to one post on the front page, and 5 minutes later I was banished from the Cargo Cult.

[corkhead]

71. I had a similar experience

I responded critically to a thread that was on the greatest page not knowing at the time that there are protected safe havens on DU. I had never imagined such a thing.

Anyway, I didn't get banished, but I was reprimanded. I subsequently hid the group so I wouldn't make the same mistake again and I am happier for it.

[Dragonfli]

87. You are only allowed to post how cute, smart, brave, liberal, Presidential and superior Obama is

compared to all other mortals, think "political Bieber" swoon site.

You may make up anything you like if it is to support the aforementioned worship or lie as necessary to deny mistakes he has made (for he is without error always).

You are NOT allowed to confront any bogus claims with facts, in fact, factual posts are an automatic banning unless they are facts that cause one's leg to tingle at the thought of our hero.

You may not post things a fan would like not to see, you must pretend such things don't exist.
You must not put down the heritage foundation there oddly enough (I was kicked out for criticizing them and their policies by Cha who quoted them in support of their health care plan).

In short, only fans can post and if a potential fan makes any of the above mistakes even once, they are banned for life.

So technically some may post in that forum, but the list is very short.

[Douglas Carpenter]

29. knr

[Zorra]

39. I hope our planet is conquered by the Parallel Earthlings sometime soon.

Before it's too late to save it, if it isn't already.

Tom Tomorrow is the best.

[NealK]

85. I, for one, welcome our new Parallel Earthlings overlords.

[hueymahl]

41. I regret I have but one rec to give for this post!

[DLevine]

43. K&R. nt

[Cleita]

47. Excellent.

The world we wished we lived in.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

56. Tom nailed David Gregory's look....

He's the only guy on TV that looks like he just woke up after sleeping on his face.

[Enthusiast]

57. That one is about as clear as clear can be.

Get the message?

[WillyT]

59. K & R !!!

[Fuddnik]

63. Obama is destroying the Democratic Party.

Flame away. I've had it with Third Way, DLC, New Dems, and all the other traitors to our party's legacy.

These are moderate, corporate politicians who are running as Dems, in districts that would never elect a "Republican".

I may never vote again.

[obxhead]

96. There are local elections to consider.

You can always opt out of the national circus.

[pa28]

65. K&R

[99th_Monkey]

67. Tom T forgot to leave directions

as to how to get from here to "Parallel Earth"...
maybe Scotty can beam me over.

[myrna minx]

69. K&R - No kidding.

[Electric Monk]

70. k&r

[LiberalLovinLug]

72. K & R

Tom's terrific!

We truly live in an alternate reality. A Democratic President who has prosecuted more whistleblowers than any other in history.

And is now erasing all avenues for justice and holding Bush and company responsible for their crimes in the future.

"Journalists" biggest job, other than to inform us about the latest movements of the Kardashians and the rest of the media created celebrities, is to demean and discredit any REAL journalists who actually dig out truth.

[ThoughtCriminal]

74. But in that universe

there should not have been a war to have parallel war crimes in and no unaccountable NSA to spy on Americans.

[OnyxCollie]

77. K&R. nt

[a2liberal]

84. I want to live in Parallel America

Last edited Mon Aug 26, 2013, 08:15 PM - Edit history (3)

It sounds a lot more like the America I grew up in, and I'm not even that old

Seriously, I can't believe I live in an America where we have DEMOCRATS who are fucking GLEEFUL about a true patriot getting a prison sentence for revealing HORRIFIC Anti-American behavior by our military in the ONLY way that would actually get any attention here in the Real World, instead of pursuing some fantasy "alternative" methods of revealing it that would only actually work in Parallel America, and consider themselves "sensible" (no this is not a callout of one person, I'm referring to a whole group of folks here). Sometimes I wonder if this is all a bad dream...

And the worst part is, you know these same people would be howling about the abuses of the Republicans and how un-American the behavior is, and going all-out defending Chelsea, if this were all happening under a Republican administration. Party over principle *sigh*

[NealK]

86. Great toon!

Thank you.

[Overseas]

89. K&R. Yes please!

[dgauss]

90. Alternate realities

go from comic strips, to science fiction, to dystopian political fiction, to actual political strategies, seeping back into daily life and then back to comic strips. Gotta love the comics.

[avaistheone1]

91. K&r

Brilliant!

[idwiyo]

92. K&R

[gulliver]

93. The real Parallel Earth is much better.

Greenwald, Snowden, and Manning are still Elmer Gantry and the Numbskulls but Bush and Cheney never get into power to begin with.

[xchrom]

94. du rec.

[demwing]

95. Are we pary of the problem?

By not taking to the streets in protest, are we enablers by default?