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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEllsberg: Journalists Who Attack Glenn Greenwald Are "Tools"
Not to mention people who are not journalists.
Daniel Ellsberg: Journalists Who Attack Glenn Greenwald Are 'Tools' Who Do 'the Work of the Government'
Americas most famous whistleblower slammed the journalists attacking Greenwald and Edward Snowden.
August 26, 3013 * AlterNet * By Alex Kane
Americas most famous whistleblower criticized the journalists attacking Glenn Greenwald in an interview with the New York Times. Daniel Ellsberg, the man who leaked the Pentagon Papers in 1969, slammed journalists Jeffrey Toobin and Michael Grunwald during a conversation with the Times media columnist David Carr.
With Snowden in particular, you have a split between truly independent journalists and those who are tools and I mean that in every sense of the term of the government. Toobin and Grunwald are doing the work of the government to maintain relationships and access, Ellsberg said.
Ellsberg was reacting to recent comments made by both CNNs Toobin and TIME magazines Grunwald about Edward Snowden and WikiLeaks Julian Assange. Toobin recently said that Snowden belongs in prison and that David Miranda, Greenwalds husband, was the equivalent of a drug mule for transporting documents between Berlin and Greenwald. Miranda was arrested by British authorities in Heathrow airport and held for nine hours.
Grunwald recently said on Twitter that he couldnt wait to write a defense of the drone strike that takes out Julian Assange.
Carr also interviewed Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger, who likewise criticized journalists taking on Greenwald. I think the people in our business who are suspicious of Glenn Greenwald and critical of David Miranda are not really thinking this through, said Rusbridger. The governments are conflating journalism with terrorism and using national security to engage in mass surveillance. The implications just in terms of how journalism is practiced are enormous.
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/daniel-ellsberg-slams-jeffrey-toobin-and-michael-grunwald
grasswire
(50,130 posts)The task is to marginalize and expose them.
And we try.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)so-o-o called "Journalists" that is.
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)Vanje
(9,766 posts)Your incisive logic, combined with your extensive documentation, and polished debating skills...The artful prose you employ.......
Yet, astoundingly, I fail to be entirely convinced.
Maybe if you'd used all CAPS.
That would have probably won me.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)This kind of arrogance always makes me laugh.
totodeinhere
(13,057 posts)and he did this country a tremendous service so I think it's worth taking his opinion into consideration. But of course there are other opinions.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)on an organization set up by Greenwald so forgive me for seeing he has some skin in the game and may be just the tiniest bit biased:
http://www.thepeoplesview.net/2013/07/daniel-ellsbergs-stunning-fall-trifecta.html
snip
Last week, I highlighted the connections between Glenn Greenwald, Edward Snowden, Wikileaks and the Freedom of the Press Foundation, a front-group that was conveniently set up by Greenwald and his cohort Laura Poitras (who interviewed Edward Snowden on camera) just a month before Snowden began contacting Poitras and Snowden. Greenwald and Poitras are both board members of this front group, as is Daniel Ellsberg of the Pentagon Papers fame.
Ellsberg penned an op-ed in the Washington Post yesterday defending Snowden's flight from justice, canonizing Snowden and dutifully serving up accolades to Greenwald and his employer (The Guardian), without once mentioning that he has at least a professional connection to Glenn Greenwald that could serve as a potential conflict of interest: Ellsberg sits on the Board of this front group with Glenn Greenwald. So much for transparency, I guess.
totodeinhere
(13,057 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I bet you're one of the people who was screaming crap about shooting the messenger when some didn't fall on their knees and worship Eric Snowden. Don't like the source? Think it's lying about the organization and the fact GG and Ellsberg are in bed together? How pathetically predictable.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)whacked out website I've seen in a long while.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)How about the website for the Freedom of the Press Foundation which I've helpfully linked to their board of directors:
https://pressfreedomfoundation.org/about/staff
Anybody want to stop bitching about the source and comment about how Ellsberg has a vested interest in seeing GG look good?
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Is there an "Irony" smilie?
Zorra
(27,670 posts)right now.
Leopolds Ghost
(12,875 posts)Would be a waste of resources, according to the President.
U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)by the DU tool-brigade.
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)the discourse several levels:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023512489#post32
Way to keep it classy, DU.
RC
(25,592 posts)Of which we have many.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I had a feeling it was a paid-for smear word, because when they pay for a smear campaign, you ALWAYS see the same words being spread around, whereas if it's just someone's opinion, it rarely goes beyond their own article.
I guess the paid for smear campaign on Snowden, by some 'brilliant' Private Security Employee was to include 'Drug War Language'.
They are so incredibly stupid, as we saw with the smear campaign against Greenwald in the emails that were exposed from HB Gary. They sound like grade schoolers. I hope they are working cheap because some of the money for this comes from our tax dollars and I could do a better job, IF I were a person of zero ethics.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)I laughed a lot of times, because all I had to do was read a few posts that just came out from the usual suspects, and they were all using the same new smears at the same time.
Personally, I think they think we're idiots or something. We aren't like them- we don't gobble up talking points and opinions, we gobble up facts. We put our own stamp on what we call it. We're the dreaded "individuals."
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)are the odds that they both coincidentally chose those completely inappropriate terms considering the topic, independently??
Toobin also used the term 'mule'. I wonder which Private Contractor got the Snowden Smear Campaign contract?
Talking points are so easily recognized now that they have lost all effect.
They may think we are stupid, but the feeling is mutual.
And I think I know who is right in this instance.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)They are not posting because they are trying to convince us we are wrong. On the contrary, they know that we are right. They are posting for one of two reasons:
1. They are in denial about Obama's motivations RE: the NSA and are trying somehow to convince themselves that it's not as bad as it looks.
2. They are trying to distract and misinform casual readers so as to give the impression that liberals think the NSA's actions are acceptable and only "far Left purists" object to the surveillance.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)The intent is not to find/defend the truth, but to poison the well. Inject doubt into the discussion.
The whole Moralez thing was textbook that way. Even when the facts were clear, they were busy smokescreening for the US.
Some of the posters have even dropped defending the President in a sideways fashion. They don't say they're doing that, but they are arguing against high level information releases from this admin. Someone else also pointed out that a fair number of them seem to be spooks- they're defending their livelyhood.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)I have a friend who has been conditioned to HATE THE REPUBLICANS!!! so much that he is willing to accept literally anything Obama does as long as it can be construed as somehow humiliating Republicans.
Some of our posters here are the same. They defend the NSA not because they believe in it's mission and activities, but because the agency's bad acts reflect upon the President. Since nothing can be allowed to reflect negatively on the President, the bad acts must be made to seem perfectly okay. Because Obama wouldn't do something wrong, would he?
And yes - of course a whole slew of them are Stratfor socks.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)I'm surprised they didn't also call him a "wet back", just to further the smear.
Leopolds Ghost
(12,875 posts)Then labeling his husband a "drug mule" has unfortunate homophobic connotations.
forestpath
(3,102 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Sad Ellsberg is so wrong about the matter, but there it is.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)I'm sure he'll cry himself to sleep over your assessment.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)to check any other sources regarding Greenwald's lies says quite a bit about you.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)And the evidence for the other side of the debate, that the NSA's surveillance program is broader and more invasive than previously believed, is very strong and has been corroborated by a large number of credible individuals including U.S. Senators, former intelligence professionals and respected journalists.
So who should be believe more? A growing cadre of knowledgeable, credible individuals or a pack of shrieking hyenas on the Internet?
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)But we only ever hear that he's a liar...we never seem to get documentation of those lies. There's a reason for that.
Vanje
(9,766 posts)I've heard, "Liar" , but I haven't been shown the "lies".
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)and some sort of semantic nitpicking about the words "direct access."
Oh - and countless links back to previous threads with links back to previous threads...
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)prove it rather than these vague 'he lied' comments. I've seen plenty of smears and vague references but nothing at all to back them up.
If he's lying, then the NSA has nothing to worry about it, right?
They seem awfully worried to me.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)2nd easiest lie to post- Miranda wasn't given access to a lawyer.
frylock
(34,825 posts)2) he was not granted access to his OWN counsel.
what else you got?
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)because he was related to Greenwald
well. Whatever.
Oh, and specifically, Miranda was offered council which he rejected because he didn't trust them and it then took hours for his own lawyer to show up. Those are the facts.
frylock
(34,825 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)really?! would you? so far, your "documented" lies are less than impressive, or as cut and dried as you'd like to believe. surely there are other instances of Greenwald's lies that you can present as evidence.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)his own lawyer eventually show up or he didn't.
frylock
(34,825 posts)and explained that I wouldn't trust their lawyer either. he was granted access to his own attorney after being held for 8 hours. continue to spin this any way you'd like, but it's not gaining any traction, as evidenced by the continued requests for "documented" lies. you can provide the "documented" evidence to these lies, or you can continue to dig this hole you started on two months ago. your call.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...ha ha, perfect!
K&R
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Autumn
(44,986 posts)rec
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)material from Laurence Walsh's office dares to even comment on this topic.
From Isokoff on Toobin re his theft of classified material:
And from Walsh's Memoirs:
He needs to remove himself from commenting on 'the theft of documents' and consider him lucky that he never went to jail. He certainly made money from his own theft of classified material. He is no position to be commenting on this.
Autumn
(44,986 posts)Vanje
(9,766 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Autumn
(44,986 posts)totodeinhere
(13,057 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)from the hat.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)of. Did I miss it? If not, please provide it. Repeating this over and over without backup won't make it true.
For now, I reject your claim completely.
Response to Autumn (Reply #13)
DemocratsForProgress This message was self-deleted by its author.
Autumn
(44,986 posts)http://www.democratsforprogress.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3967
But unlike some of your members I don't consider DU a cesspool I didn't bother reading too much.
Response to Autumn (Reply #37)
DemocratsForProgress This message was self-deleted by its author.
Autumn
(44,986 posts)Violet_Crumble
(35,956 posts)Both of those had sections devoted to moaning and complaining about DU. And both of those had lots of members who thought DU was a cesspool. The only difference between them and this one is that those two were pretty anti Obama, while this one looks to be really supportive of Obama
Puglover
(16,380 posts)And run by a Tombstoned mega troll that calls DU a cesspool. Yep, big difference.
Violet_Crumble
(35,956 posts)Heard of Hawkeye X? He's one of the ones who runs OET. While I like the guy on a personal level, he's a tombstoned mega troll and multiple returned zombie who's said a lot of nasty stuff about DU. So, what's the difference again?
I'll give you a pretty irrelevant difference. I was a member of Progressive Independent, still am a member of OET, and going even further back hung out at People for Change, where there was also a whole lot of disgruntled tombstoned DUers venting and complaining about DU. I'm not a member of the forum Autumn linked to, mainly coz I don't think I've seen it till now, and I don't think I'd fit in ideologically there
Puglover
(16,380 posts)I was wholeheartedly agreeing with you Violet.
Oh and no, can't say I recall Hawkeye. I just never got into lurking on any of these other sites. I don't spend more then 30 min a day on DU on most days. However the pompous,clueless gasbaggery of DFP and the guy that runs it is worth of a cheap shot every now and then.
Violet_Crumble
(35,956 posts)I found the bitterness and pointless anger aimed at DU at its many offshoot sites to get tiring, which is why I never hung round much. Those and seeing this one in this thread made me realise that if ever I'm nuked I'd fade quietly into the sunset and not rage about it. Back in the old days at DU, a few friends got tombstoned and ended up on other sites getting obsessed about DU, and it came across as kinda pathetic to me. Most of the time I enjoy DU. but there have been times I've thought parts of it (I/P and the gungeon) are cesspools, so I just avoid those bits of DU now
Puglover
(16,380 posts)It's a website that I enjoy. Most of the time. And yeah, I have gotten sucked into the drama however the older I get the more other things become important. I appreciate the info this site gives me. I enjoy some of the posters. And yeah, the whole obsession schtick is rather pitiful.
I must admit using the "I support President Obama no matter what and if you don't you are no Democrat" argument can piss me off fast. Thus my feelings about that website. But hey, I hope the people over there enjoy the heck out of it. Better there then here.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)I've lurked DU for 10 years. NJMaverick and NanceGreggs were once highly respected posters here...
Vanje
(9,766 posts)in good standing.
While I frequently disagree with her, she challenges with well-written posts and well -thought out arguments.
Autumn
(44,986 posts)LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)And I quote:
"I look at it this way, DFP serves a purpose that far exceeds the sad little cyber cess pool that is DU. Skinner screwed up his website because he was looking to maximize his profit. <snip> So DU is an isolated echo chamber... the last thing we want them to see is us wasting time venting about a bunch of losers. Our board is about getting Democrats elected and helping them achieve progress." DFP is an oasis for Democrats who support the party and the President"
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)thanks for posting this. very informative & helpful.
Vanje
(9,766 posts)MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)which is unfortunate.
Autumn
(44,986 posts)I imagine that would come in handy.
QC
(26,371 posts)Vanje
(9,766 posts)Puglover
(16,380 posts)QC
(26,371 posts)The mind reels.
Response to DemocratsForProgress (Reply #28)
Vanje This message was self-deleted by its author.
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)seriously think that Ellsberg has 'never been wrong about anything ever,' then you don't have the faintest idea what led him to leak the Pentagon Papers in the first place.
I'd suggest you STFU until you have read Secrets, Ellsberg's autobiography, Neil Sheehan's A Bright Shining Lie and Stanley Karnow's Vietnam. But opinions are like assholes . . . everyone has them.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)On Huffington Post whose on a rant about the disaster at The Guardian.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)He lies and when corrected says he did not say it then when you show him a quote of his lies he says 'so what'.
He maligned Dan Choi because Dan criticized the President. Fuck that McCarthyite liar.
railsback
(1,881 posts)..said The Tool.
totodeinhere
(13,057 posts)like that right here at DU. Disagree with him if you wish. That's fine. But Daniel Ellsberg is nobody's tool.
railsback
(1,881 posts)He's clearly lost his mind. It happens.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)You'll learn just how brave he was.
He made a conscious decision to go to prison if he had to, to stop the war. And expose Nixon's real plan to expand the war.
I'd love to see another whistle-blower expose all the jackals in Washington, and their plans.
railsback
(1,881 posts)End of story.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)so you bucket holds no water.
railsback
(1,881 posts)I never implied that Ellsberg was, or would have been, a complete idiot, which you seem to be implying.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)So did Manning and Snowden.
Knock yourself out!
railsback
(1,881 posts)Submitting that he would have taken more is accusing him of being an idiot.
totodeinhere
(13,057 posts)used by Snowden, but the end result was similar. And to suggest that he has lost his mind is ridiculous. Have you heard him speak lately or read any of his recent writings? Yes he is in his eighties now but he is articulate and sharp as a tack. I wish I had half his intellect. It seems that certain posters will gladly go down into the gutter to try to discredit this great man. Calling him a tool or calling him crazy is out of bounds and beneath this forum. I come here for intelligent discourse, not juvenile name calling and character assassination.
railsback
(1,881 posts)HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)'document dump' (as you put it), since Ellsberg co-authored the PP at Defense Secretary McNamara's suggestion. But Nixon and Kissinger sure reacted as though Ellsberg had document dumped and were scared shitless he had the goods on their little adventures in Cambodia.
Unbeknownst to Nixon and Kissinger, Ellsberg's review had covered 1945-68 (LBJ's final year in office). But given Nixon's and Kissinger's crimes re Cambodia, they had damned good reason to worry.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)BEING A TOOL <-- not just for shwarmy journos anymore. anybody can play.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)railsback
(1,881 posts)Well, we all watched Woodward go wayward. Its plausible.
Leopolds Ghost
(12,875 posts)Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)He's still around.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)NOT.
Pathetic.
railsback
(1,881 posts)That's a compliment.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)[font size=3]"Journalists Who Attack Glenn Greenwald Are 'Tools'..."[/font]
Phlem
(6,323 posts)me like.
-p
struggle4progress
(118,237 posts)it has no place in any practical political toolkit
Whether one wants to do electoral work or grassroots organizing, the name of the game is to make gains among the unconvinced. And taking the view "Everyone who disagrees with me is a tool" guarantees that won't happen much -- in fact, it's disruptive and guarantees losses from the already-convinced side
Cha
(296,893 posts)Just because Ellsberg said it doesn't make it so. Makes me immediately think he's some kind of freaking "tool".
Vanje
(9,766 posts)You used the , I know you are, but what am I?" argument.
How many years did you study debate?
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)regarding all things Manning-Snowden-Greenwald-Surveillance & Security State ..
Yes, people are taking strong stands, and framing their language accordingly,
precisely because what's at stake is so huge and the time is so short.
I suggest you get used to it, at least until this sorry-ass NSA Security State mess
has been resolved sufficiently.
I don't think Ellsberg did the cause any damage whatsoever with his bluntness.
Actually "tool" is pretty mild compared to some other insults I've seen tossed
around lately.
deurbano
(2,894 posts)<<"By no means was I treated as a hero when I first came forward. I was indicted and spent two years in court, Mr. Ellsberg said in an interview. But in those days, journalists were not turning on journalists. With Snowden in particular, you have a split between truly independent journalists and those who are tools and I mean that in every sense of the term of the government. Toobin and Grunwald are doing the work of the government to maintain relationships and access.>>
From original article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/26/business/media/war-on-leaks-is-pitting-journalist-vs-journalist.html?pagewanted=2&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
Why Toobin and Grunwald?
<<Ellsberg was reacting to recent comments made by both CNNs Toobin and TIME magazines Grunwald about Edward Snowden and WikiLeaks Julian Assange. Toobin recently said that Snowden belongs in prison and that David Miranda, Greenwalds husband, was the equivalent of a drug mule for transporting documents between Berlin and Greenwald. Miranda was arrested by British authorities in Heathrow airport and held for nine hours.
Grunwald recently said on Twitter that he couldnt wait to write a defense of the drone strike that takes out Julian Assange.>>
From the Alernet (OP) article
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)them 'tools' , it is not disagreement with Daniel that is the metric. 'People who waste their money are fools' means that I think they are fools for wasting money, not for disagreeing with me about money.
You must be seriously hard up for something to type if that's what you came up with. This is English we are working in here.
Vanje
(9,766 posts)You probably don't even know that that is funny.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)The folks who think he's infallible and walks on water are headed for a pretty ugly crash sooner or later...
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)It would be a shame if anything happened to it.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)I'd just as soon see this story (potentially story of the year) reported on properly without the baggage of Greenwald's self-congratulatory attention-seeking circus...
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Don't they get 'paid?'
Aren't some of them arrogant?
Some of them don't seek attention?
The NYT doesn't want to make money for its corporate masters?
Leopolds Ghost
(12,875 posts)Should we be expecting self-respecting Democrats to label him a traitor shortly?
Oh, no, wait, they can't because they tried to ignore the story when it first came
out over 5 years ago, and Drake is the equivalent of Ellsberg in terms of access
and contacts.
Thomas Andrews Drake (born 1957) is a former senior executive of the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA), a decorated United States Air Force and United States Navy veteran, and a whistleblower.
Leopolds Ghost
(12,875 posts)And has been releasing new info in the front page of the Washington Post ever since.
So why did he get scooped by Greenwald?
Because he couldn't guarantee that the Post higher-ups (Don Graham and Fred Hiatt and Bob Woodward) wouldn't quash the story
before it went to press, thereby (supposedly, in Snowden's opinion) putting his life and liberty in danger,
and indeed the Post refused to run with the story until it got scooped,
because they take pains to represent whoever has real authority in Washington.
Snowden told Gellman he would no longer get an exclusive the day Gellman told him there might be some delay in getting it published. Then he released it to Greenwald and the very same week, the Guardian went with the story. The Post rushed Gellman's piece into a short article below the fold the same Thursday in order to avoid being scooped.
This is according to Gellman himself in a news analysis piece, btw.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)given what Greenwald has had to put up with, in terms of harassment & ridicule
by the Big Lie Factory.
Leopolds Ghost
(12,875 posts)And then took pains to add "nobody is asking similar questions about Barton Gellman, who broke the story for the Washington Post."
This was in a news analysis article as well. I.e. "news analysis" about whether a rival agency's reporter is a traitor, in fine tradition of the Post's own Howard Kurtz, who destroyed the careers of CBS newscaster Dan Rather and his entire team over documents brought to light by DU's own Walt Starr that called into question then-President Bush's war record at a time when Kurtz and Bob Woodward were lobbying heavily to get in the President's good graces.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)wanting some credit for 'breaking' story it refused or delayed printing it own self?
Leopolds Ghost
(12,875 posts)continue to report on the story, much to the consternation of Fred Hiatt and the insider set. what do you want to bet Gellman never gets offered advancement in the Washington Post? He'll probably have to move to another paper or online in order to get promoted. Like Hollywood, Washington eats its own.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)and it's not even his place to make any such assurance...If that's what Snowden was truly asking for, then he should have contacted the publisher directly
Leopolds Ghost
(12,875 posts)Don Graham is a Reaganite. Good riddance. Anypony is better than him, even the founder of Amazon (a man who, although he's essentially the modern William Randolph Hearst and singlehandedly responsible for bringing down the book publishing industry, is allegedly a liberal, nobody ever made that claim about Don Graham.)
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)The government's pet journalists should be ashamed.
Supersedeas
(20,630 posts)David Krout
(423 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)It was bothering me too, so thanks for goading me to correct it.
David Krout
(423 posts)Jake2413
(226 posts)Edward Snowden is very courageous.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)idwiyo
(5,113 posts)DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)Evidence Number One: Fox News
There are so many "journalists" today that want to be celebrities, or future "book" writers....
Whatever happened to "trust the evidence"... not the writer.
Vanje
(9,766 posts)Ellsberg says people acting on the government's or corporation's behalf, shouldn't act to silence or intimidate them.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)Babel_17
(5,400 posts)The road to trashing Greenwald has a big stumbling block. It's tough to write comprehensively about what's going on while ignoring Ellsberg's opinion.
It's like that scene from the movie Annie Hall with the guy pontificating while on line behind Woody Allen.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)--it denotes and agenda, which we all actually have. But I think it is important to take a look at what you are ultimately 'tooling' for--is is the good of the all or is it the good of a few?
I think the mistake some people make is that to agree with the disclosure of corruption and the conspiracies of the few and powerful to control and rule over us instead of Representing us-- means that we are worshipping the messengers.
We are SO beyond that line of thinking that it has become actually hard to relate to that old argument. It would be best to keep up--here's a clue:
We are all on in the same boat, the same planet, and we who are disturbed by the loss of liberties and the creeping police state are fighting for YOU--whether we agree with all the petty personality talking points or not. I find it most useful to blame propaganda as a cultural virus, whose aim is to divide us--and leave it at that.
We are adults and should be able to agree to disagree on the small stuff, and unite on the big stuff--that is to do what we think is right and get out of our egotistical need to win in petty ways.
Peace~~Felix
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)my wifi keeps going out today but you can steal it & post it 99th_Monkey!
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Vanje
(9,766 posts)and a little time to study up and become better tools.
The tool caliber around here is quite poor.
iamthebandfanman
(8,127 posts)post a real picture to go along with one of his stories so he just threw some computer parts on a table and took a picture.. and youre surprised not everyone is on pins and needles to hear what he has to say next?
what a joke
Vanje
(9,766 posts)We can generally understand the written word without pictures.
Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)
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