Dumb Question: How Are Chemical Weapons Deployed?.....

[global1]

Seriously - how are they used to prevent those that are using them to be harmed by them? Do they have to wear special suits? Are they placed somewhere and then remotely set off? I just was wondering if the method of deployment would be a clue as to whom used them - Assad's forces or the rebels?

[KittyWampus]

1. great question: an artillery person on DU yesterday explained this and why it's not likely anyone

would fire ordinance that was painted or altered.

My remembrance was- each load that will be launched has specifications that must be followed for safety. Each load may have variations.

I would really like input from those who have been in artillery.

[dkf]

4. Do you have a link? I missed that.

[KittyWampus]

7. I apologize if I got my previous recollection wrong. But here is Happyslug-

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014575657#post5


No trained Artillery would fire such a round

Last edited Mon Aug 26, 2013, 01:09 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

We go by what is marked on the shell to determine HOW to fire that Shell. When I was in, we were still using mechanical "computers" for our calculations (Computers were coming in as I left the field Artillery) but those mechanical Computers were dependent in knowing what you were firing (as are the computers being used today).

Furthermore, Chemical rounds, tend to be "Liquid", much like White Phosphorus (Which I did fire and handled). We had to be careful when hauling White Phosphorus, for it was liquid and thus had to be stored standing up. If you laid it down like a high Explosive round, the liquid would flow to one side and unbalance the round. The biggest problem would be the people firing the round could not know where the round would land and thus would NOT fire it. Could it be fired? Yes, but given no one would know where it would land, not worth firing.

Sorry, no one would fire a repainted round. Furthermore, given the special handling such liquid rounds require, it would be almost impossible NOT to know what you are firing.


……………………………………………………..

ou can tell, for each batch has been known to be different

We like to say we have top notch quality control, but it is known that each BATCH of ammunition made can have different firing characteristics. Thus if you have to go from one batch to another batch, new firing tables come with the new batch. If re-painted that hides the lot number for the batch and thus, unless, disparate, artillerymen will not fire the repainted shells.

You also seem to miss the second reason I gave, such shells have to be handle differently then High Explosive shells. Chemical Shells, like White Phosphorus shells, must be stored and transported standing up, not on their side like High Explosive Shells. That difference in handling is the main reason such shells are marked as they are. Remember if these shells are mishandled, i,e, Chemical Shells handled like it was an High Explosive shell, the shell will no longer be balanced, instead would be heavy to one side. That difference is weight would make it impossible to fire such shells AND KNOW WHERE THEY WILL LAND. Some will be short, i.e. land on your own troops.

Sorry, one of the reason such shells are MARKED, is because any shell with Liquid inside (even if a semi solid liquid in White Phosphorus or chemical Shells) require special handling. Due to the need for such handling for the shell to be useful, you paint the whole shell an different color to make sure Fatigued soldiers quickly see that it is a different shell then what they had been firing.

P.S. Shells are color coded in addition to what they are marked. Thus you would have to repaint the whole shell AND then re label the round to make a Chemical round look like a High Explosive Round. That is just plan dangerous given shells are used in indirect fire missions most of the time (i.e. a fire mission is called in, and fire is given to the area where it is requested for). It is rare to have a direct fire opportunity in today's combat environment.

The Soviet Army seems to have a greater emphasis on direct fire opportunities then we in the west (this is probably due to that Russia is a huge FLAT terrain and thus such direct fire opportunity occurs more often then in the rolling hills and mountains of Central and Western Europe) but even is such situations, most artillerymen will want to use only one type of ammunition if at all possible. Mixing between batches will shift the impact area, let alone differences between type of shells being used.

[dkf]

8. Thanks!

[KittyWampus]

9. Glad we haven't "plonked" each other!

[dkf]

12. :). That was a great thread. Just got through with it and bookmarked.

[Victor_c3]

2. From what I understand they are placed in special artillery rounds and the like

Depending on the setup, modern 155mm artillery has a range of 20 or more miles and can be spot-on accurate.

[Spider Jerusalem]

3. Mortars firing gas shells, usually

[yurbud]

5. I'm not sure if our government cares which side has or used them

Syria is on the shit list, and Washington has decided it's time to pinch the loaf.

Facts have as little to do with it as they did with Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, or the ongoing threats against Iran.

[HooptieWagon]

6. Light artillary or rockets.

They can only be fired downwind, lest the gas blow back. And the launching systems have to be highly mobile, to rapidly clear the launching site. This would indicate using light artillary, or portable rocket launchers, perhaps even shoulder-fired. Pretty basic technology...

[KittyWampus]

10. from a DU'er post yesterday (an artillery person)- chemical weapons require careful storage,

transport, deployment. See post above.

[Lurks Often]

11. Several ways

Usually by artillery or mortar shell, they can also be delivered by missiles like the SCUD or by planes with tanks (much like a crop duster, only faster and higher).

When we had them, we used a binary system in that two different kinds of chemicals that by themselves were not chemical weapons, were separated in the artillery shell and only after the artillery shell was fired would the two chemicals mix and become a chemical weapon. I believe the Russians used a similar method and there is a fair chance that as a client state of the former Soviet Union, the Syrians used the same method.

Non binary chemical weapons would be delivered the same way, although it would be possible to jury rig something to set it off remotely. A non binary shell should be relatively safe to handle once it is loaded and sealed, but most militaries have units with specialized training to handle chemical weapons and chemical weapon attacks.

[Arctic Dave]

13. Here are a couple of links

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/sarin/basics/facts.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin

You would need an entire specialized chain of custody for making, storing, transporting, firing any type of CW.

You aren't going to fire them off the cuff. Most of all, you need mother nature on your side so as no to blow it back on you.