General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPlease, NO.
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/27/20209022-military-strikes-on-syria-as-early-as-thursday-us-officials-say?lite
No WAR.
No Bombs.
No "Surgical Strikes"
No.
peace, please, kp
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)warrant46
(2,205 posts)I once saw a dog with Rabies acting the same way.
Totally outrageous adjectives and verbs she was using.
The only thing missing was a description of baby incubators being overturned and the young occupants being stomped with jack boots.
Looks like the Mainstream news media is Totally In Line to support another war.
They certainly are ready to whip up the usual crew
WCLinolVir
(951 posts)This was not a panel discussion. Was not even offered as commentary.
mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)how will all those poor CEOs of military contract firms get their bonuses?
Think of the children!
polichick
(37,152 posts)myrna minx
(22,772 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)Hi Myrna
KoKo
(84,711 posts)the Drums of the "Project for New American Century" and Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and the Crew that supports them.
I was so impressed that Ted Kennedy supported Obama. He's actually the only reason I voted for Obama (along with Caroline Kennedy's support) because I had worries about his FAST RISE to Stardom of Presidency. But, if they supported him....I gave him my vote...and the Second Time when I was disappointed I listened to the "Nation Magazine" ....I swallowed my grave, foreboding thoughts about him and dutifully went to the polls. We were told by "Progressive Dems" that in his "Second Term" he would not trash the Left of the Dems (what used to be Mainstream Dems...now the hated Left)...
But, his Second Term he Hit the GROUND RUNNING towards the RIGHT...and Stuck us in the HEART ...THIS TIME.
He's quite the Fooler...and there are those who will BELIEVE....when all is lost...
Whatever........ Many of us are Very Angry, Disappointed and dealing with Mega Hurt...but there are those who believe he's doing the RIGHT THING. They are Democrats too...or so we are told.
I guess we just "GET OVER OURSELVES" as the CNN COVERAGE ...beats the WAR DRUMS and tells us how important the GLOBAL WAR IS....for our American Future.
Whatever.........
NealK
(1,867 posts)N_E_1 for Tennis
(9,721 posts)Thank You!!!
juajen
(8,515 posts)I actually would support a dedicated strike, if I thought we were being told the truth. Sounds too much like the little babies being stomped on to justify the Iraq crap. We just can't believe them anymore.
I hope Obama is not the disappointment so many of us are feeling. Even though I did not support him in the primary, I hoped he would prove me wrong. I still do. I adore his family, just don't trust him on this war thingie.
I am glad that Hillary Clinton is no longer SOS, and shudder at the country she might be in charge of in 2016. I am so tired of the middle east. We would have no interest in them whatsoever if they weren't sitting on top of a tremendous amount of oil.
Alternative energy is the answer, but we are ruled by the oil interests in this country, and the progress that has come to other countries in this beleaguered world will be denied us unless a miracle happens.
I do still believe in miracles. I hope she has a brilliant mind, iron-like strength, blonde hair and beautiful blue eyes. I know she is strong and compassionate, and, I hope that strength will be a changing factor.
I honestly believe that we need someone who has the capacity to nurture life, who feels the terror of having that child or any other woman's child torn to pieces by a bomb or gun, to finally lead this country to become a more compassionate and progressive country without guns and bombs strewn in our path for a legacy, while the world quakes.
Alcibiades
(5,061 posts)of the countries she would like to bomb and invade after she is anointed in 2016.
juajen
(8,515 posts)Alcibiades
(5,061 posts)Unlike many Obama supporters, I knew what we were getting in 2008: a centrist Midwestern Democrat. I didn't expect him to be too different from other centrists in the party, such as the Clintons, but at least he knew better than to support the Iraq War, something that couldn't be said of Clinton.
And now he is about to embark on another adventure in the Middle East.
Neither Clinton, nor Obama, nor Kerry are alone in this. It seems almost all the folks who are "serious contenders" for the nomination this time around, and all the inside the beltway Democrats, are out of touch with what Democratic voters actually want, which is not another damn war. But once you get to go to these high level meetings with security officials, the language of imperialism takes root in one's mind. To a child with a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Here's a citation.
""Every nation has to either be with us, or against us. Those who harbor terrorists, or who finance them, are going to pay a price." Hilary Clinton
We need to get out of this cycle. Who will be the Eugene McCarthy of this generation? You cannot be clean for Gene if there is no Gene for whom to be clean.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)I admit that I did not approve of some of the tactics used by the Clintons during the primary. Combined with the seemingly much more progressive platform of Obama, and the fact that he did not want the Iraq war sealed the deal.
But now as we see that it was all a shell game, and that Obama is following Tony Blair's example in working hard for the 1% in the hopes of setting him and his family up with lucrative positions on multinational corporation's executive boards once he leaves office.
So now I have a slim hope that Hillary will run and win and actually be more than another opportunistic politician. That she will have learned from her husbands time in office and will have some perspective and not be simply hell-bent on pleasing the corporate class and only have derision for the progressive base of her own party.
progressoid
(49,988 posts)Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)as when ones packin' a piece.
NealK
(1,867 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)Would stop this shit?
O wait... Nope. Tried that and Iraq happened anyway.
Warmongers make me sick too
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)To firm up our infra structure, and take care of the real "terrors" of cutting our school budgets back, and the roads and bridges needing repairs, etc, are now to be put on hold, while we again become the "Defender of the Free World." And this time around, if you protest, the NSA gets a nice report on you and yours.
I join you in the
kentuck
(111,089 posts)deurbano
(2,895 posts)MerryBlooms
(11,769 posts)bowens43
(16,064 posts)Divernan
(15,480 posts)sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)They're psychopaths who profit from war without risk of fighting or dying in one. They rule the country and don't have to give a good goddamn how we vote or what we think about them either.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)I'm so tired of this shit.
Peace...
why is it so elusive?
keep on thinking if I say it enough, think it enough.........
stubborn old peace freak here.
kpete
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Maybe...
kentuck
(111,089 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)Bertha Venation
(21,484 posts)zeemike
(18,998 posts)they listen to the MIC who need to make some money...and money is the real speech.
We collectively don't have enough money to get them to hear no.
roamer65
(36,745 posts)The whole map of the Middle East is about to be redrawn.
Very well could be the beginning of WW3.
H2O Man
(73,537 posts)kpete
(71,986 posts)WWI, II, II, IV, V
perpetual........
but, hey
peace to you H20 Man
kp
H2O Man
(73,537 posts)isn't in the name ..... we could call it "Alfred" if we want. Rather, it's in what the name implies.
"Perpetual war" is the military-industrial state pumping lots of investments into the domestic and foreign economies/lands, but makes the greatest financial profits by maintaining either a cold war, or relatively small, controllable warm wars. The concept that "WW3" communicates is a larger, wide-spread. inter-related hot war. Historically, these types of wars (and I'm not referring only to WW1/2) cause the economic and political collapse of empires. When an empire spreads its violence over too great an area of the world, it loses all "wholesome" control over the application of the destructive forces it unleashes.
That, I believe, is what was meant by saying it could start WW3.
Peace to you, my Friend.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)is a distinct possibility.
You've been away awhile while some of us have been trying to put out the information in your post with links and comments and such.
But, yes. You like some of us have always seen what was coming even though you like many of us worked hard to stop it.
We shall see... But, My Friend from Times Past....I, too find solace in the woods...the animals and what's left of the communication with our environment whenever I have the chance to do it. And the Oceans...and spending time looking at what I remember as a child and how it's changed...and how I don't know how to explain to the "young ones" what the Ocean and Beach and the Woods and Woodlands looked like...when I was growing up.
So...I understand.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Probably the biggest problem with your idea.....is the enormous amount of risk that would come with that.
First of all, both China & Russia are heavily dependent on the international market, particularly the former; do you really think Beijing would want to make that kind of a gamble? Their economy would collapse within a week! And then there's the nuclear question: as much of a crook as Putin is, do you really think he'd be willing to gamble with 160 million Russian lives over a dictator whom, like the Iranians, even if not by as much of a degree, isn't exactly a genuine ally, and might actually turn on them in the right circumstances? Putin may be a crook, ditto for Hu Jintao, but he's no Hitler.....Hitler might actually just have gone and nuked people if he'd gotten the chance to do so.
I don't doubt this has the potential to turn into a very nasty regional war, but definitely not WWIII; even Yom Kippur and the war in '82 didn't get to that stage, and both of them had a rather higher chance of doing so, too, in a much more polarized and less connected world.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)This truly sickens me!
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)kpete
(71,986 posts)peace (again),
kp
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)None of the arguments made so far are strong enough for us going to war or throwing around bombs in Syria.
Damn the chickenhawks!
kpete
(71,986 posts)the ONLY thing worth fighting for,
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)I found this quote today and it reminds me of the present dialog on Syria in our country.
Violence in the voice is often only the death rattle of reason in the throat.
-John Boyes
kentuck
(111,089 posts)Thank you!
yardwork
(61,599 posts)LongTomH
(8,636 posts)Just doesn't make sense!
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)and the War Powers Act will not be invoked. We would be better off calling the White House and giving them hell.
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)Our congressional critters need to know there is a firestorm of citizen opposition to any U.S. involvement in Syria.
They need to know they are going to have some very, very unhappy constituents in their districts they are going to have to face. Our critters are going to be forced to explain once again why they have done nothing but sit on their hands to avoid another Mid-East conflict.
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)It doesn't work..
Think of hated Dennis Kucinich and his work to establish a "Department of Peace" to be a counterbalance to the Pentagon War Machine...
He went UNDER THE BUS.... Who is left to support his vision of a Counterbalance?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)juajen
(8,515 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
Autumn
(45,066 posts)I don't understand this.
leftstreet
(36,107 posts)+1
Autumn
(45,066 posts)This whole thing just makes me ill.
asjr
(10,479 posts)warfare when Bush and brothers were talking about invading Iraq. I hope we are not getting the wrong message again.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Stop this madness now, while we still can!
AsahinaKimi
(20,776 posts)another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Is this how our lives will be measured out, just one war after another?
It's too much pain, too much loss and too much waste to contemplate.
Must we really let this madness rule us? Is there no way to stop it?
AsahinaKimi
(20,776 posts)to President Obama. Do you think he might get the hint?
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)We will never know if we don't try.
AsahinaKimi
(20,776 posts)Maybe we should start a post... for everyone at DU to just mail the song to that address, what ya think?
found it: president@whitehouse.gov
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)It takes a minute to fill out the info. I'm doing it.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Here's to good luck! Here's to peace!
AsahinaKimi
(20,776 posts)another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Most of the country really doesn't want this war. Maybe it's still not too late.
AsahinaKimi
(20,776 posts)Geeze, imagine if the topic was something else?
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Though the generals may have louder voices, surely there are many, many more of us.
NJCher
(35,662 posts)Let's add more suffering and bloodshed!
That's the ticket!
Geniuses, all of them.
Cher
[font size=3]The president does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation. [/font]---Senator Obama, 12-20-2007
area51
(11,908 posts)who said that single-payer was the best answer to our health care problems, then who later said he wouldn't sign any health care legislation without a public option.
Obama will turn in whatever direction the republican wind is blowing.
yellowwoodII
(616 posts)It was a hard old rocky road. Lots of potholes. Unexpected hazards. Foggy. The tolls were exorbitant. No end in sight. We asked 1 percent of us to carry all of the burden. Except for the expense. Most of us shared that.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)Where is this GROWING DRUMBEAT for MILITARY RESPONSE AROUND THE WORLD?
WHERE? WHERE?
Look at the USA POLL NUMBERS...there's NO DRUMBEAT!
is all I can say as a DU'er who stood on Street Corners, Behind Citizen Barriers and did ALL I COULD to stop the Iraq Invasion and kept it up in Peace Vigils for over a Year after in my Capitol City in the SOUTH!
It's such a Sharp Stick in My Eye..and in my HEART!
This is all we have now. The "Candle Vigil" that something will stop this and if not now...then one day in the future and more and more WAKE UP.
This is really so Distressing and OTT....
--------------
FROM YOUR POST:
The State Department fed the growing drumbeat around the world for a military response to Syria's suspected use of chemical weapons against rebels Aug. 21 near Damascus, saying that while the U.S. intelligence community would release a formal assessment within the week, it was already "crystal clear" that Assad's government was responsible.
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)Democrats and Tea Party members agreeing we shouldn't go to war. o_O
This is how Iraq has f*cked us. It destabilized the area.... The dead from this civil war can be blamed on 2 men. George and Dick. and I can't even voice to text Dicks name without it being **** on me on the phone. Iraq in that case. we chose one group of Muslims over another group of Muslims. Now the non Al Qaeida (sp ) linked groups want our help to even the playing field. I do agree with leveling the playing field. Like Libya.
The only way we will go to war and I've told my tea part dad of this. Is the old Guard republicans will convince Obama to do it. (Lindsay Graham, John McCain D*** Cheney. Course dad's response is Obama just wants to make sure the Muslim Brotherhood controls the world. Syria was just fine until Iraq (which If I say I rack, will get my head lopped off. vs I rahk) fell apart.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Say No to War.
George II
(67,782 posts)...an awful death by the hundreds, maybe thousands, by their own government?
Striking Syria isn't something anyone wants, but no one wants to see hundreds or thousands of innocent civilians being killed either.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Did we bomb the fuck out of Sudan over Darfur?
Did we bomb Rowanda over ethnic cleansing?
Have we crushed the North Koreans?
The list goes on and on.
We are not the world's fucking police. The more we act like it the more enemies we create.
greiner3
(5,214 posts)I'd say the Balkan war was different.
President Clinton stayed out of Rwanda and was deeply troubled when it was found there were hundreds of thousands dead from its genocidal war.
NATO's, and in particular the US's, intervention most assuredly saved many civilian lives, cost few NATO deaths and was the right thing to do, even though I am against war.
As for Syria, I can't quite make up my mind if it is the 'right course of action'.
But I do not make policy, so...
blackspade
(10,056 posts)It turned out much better than I expected.
You do bring up a good point though.
George II
(67,782 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)Is it more humane to starve to death? Get blown to bits?
Have the oxygen pulled out of their lungs by a bomb blast?
Get riddled with bullets?
So, your going to quivel about the method of death?
There is no point in the US getting involved in this civil war.
raccoon
(31,110 posts)AllyCat
(16,184 posts)Last edited Wed Aug 28, 2013, 01:30 PM - Edit history (1)
We can only call and write our congress critters in hope of stopping this.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)nt
AllyCat
(16,184 posts)I wonder if any Obama-hating Republicans would protest. Would be great if it was bi-partisan and more massive than 2003 (which was huge in many places, even in the U.S.)
AsahinaKimi
(20,776 posts)was going to war? How many wars has this been? I have lost count, after Desert Storm. Damn, why don't we find a way to bring more, I don't know, how about Baseball, to the world? Or something positive?
mstinamotorcity2
(1,451 posts)And I really thought we had enough in America.
postulater
(5,075 posts)We need another WAR!!!
Grrrrrrr!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)warmongers, we instigated the unrest in Syria and in Libya in order to rile things up to the point where we could claim we 'have to go there'.
It isn't fooling anyone except war profiteers and blind partisans.
So where is the money we supposedly don't have, coming from?
kpete
(71,986 posts)Flying Squirrel
(3,041 posts)weapons and chemical materials against very wide areas and, I'm afraid, to kill maybe 20,000 or 30,000 more people," he said.
---
So, instead, we'll get involved and eventually kill at least ten times that many.
Pre-emptive war, yet again. Huzzah.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)exposed to 'enhanced interrogation'. It's not the same, really.
And the people we 'detain' or send to Guantanamo, won't be as locked up.
And yes, we will kill ten times as many as Assad, but it's for a noble cause. And if we don't take pictures, if we just 'move forward' the numbers will blur. We will only remember the other dead, the ones who died before got there.
We don't look at photos of the murdered if WE murdered them. Have you noticed how many videos and photos of the atrocities in Syria we are seeing now and I haven't heard a single complaint such as 'This is War Porn, why are you posting this here? Or this OP should be deleted, it should have had a 'graphic warning'.
That is because it's okay to see atrocities, until they are our atrocities.
Ours will remain invisible.
It's a neat trick.
dflprincess
(28,075 posts)I wish I could think of something more articulate in support of your post - but you said it all.
NealK
(1,867 posts)Reminds me of "We had to destroy the village in order to save it."
bobduca
(1,763 posts)You know that manly man stuff that involves killing when we say we will? Who on the world's stage will believe us when it comes to the next red line?1?1?
What passive voice statements will push us to illegal but profitable wars of choice then?
How will the sensible centrists or eeeeevil republicans lie us into war unless to prove Credibility?
Initech
(100,068 posts)HumansAndResources
(229 posts)Not that this is something to celebrate.
Too bad that massive water-pipeline can't feed 1/2 of Africa, as planned - how would the Transnationals ever control them if they could "eat" without "permission" from Transnational Corporations and "donations" if they vote the right way in the UN.
And, of course, there was all that "sweet crude" money that Libya was "wasting" providing its citizens with the highest standard of living in the region; only Scandinavians are "allowed" do that.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MD27Ak01.html
The only WINNERS in Libya were the Global Banks, the Global Resource Extraction Industry, and the IMF.
Very scary to think that the Global Banks & IMF can use NATO as their Enforcement Arm.
Phlem
(6,323 posts)-p
peace
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)If I said what the fuck I really fucking think about this fucked up fucking war shit ...a fucking bunch of fucked up fucking fuckers would fucking vote to fucking hide it.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)This has got to be the stupidest policy decision out of this administration.
Response to kpete (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)NealK
(1,867 posts)will end poorly.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)again.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)Leave no good money-making opportunity unexploited!!!
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
democrank
(11,094 posts)Congress on vacation, many Americans suffering,veterans waiting for appointments, another war starting.
To be fair, Junior Bush should get a "Peace Prize" too.
Little Star
(17,055 posts)ladyVet
(1,587 posts)But then, I'm not profiting off the MIC. No war profiteering left behind. I just hope to keep my youngest son out of it.
RC
(25,592 posts)Since there are only two and the main one outsourced its manufacturing to elsewhere (more profits), the cure will be painful for us.
BlueMTexpat
(15,368 posts)warmonger themes and begin investigating the facts - which are not known.
Why on earth would any Syrian group (Assad OR the rebels - and frankly, all are unpalatable, IMO) attack other Syrians with chemical weapons?
To me, this smacks thoroughly of outsider interference, e.g., covert ops, to encourage Western intervention. IMO, the moment Prez O used the "chemical weapons" theme as a "red line," Syrians were doomed. That phrase was a mistake and he should never have said it. It encouraged the warmongers to go ahead with an attack that would give him no choice but to follow through.
If only we would let well enough alone. Humanitarian intervention is one thing. Military intervention should be off the table entirely. We have NO business interfering militarily. None whatsoever.
dgibby
(9,474 posts)I was just thinking that this whole thing reeks as a CIA covert op. Glad to know I have company!
I don't get the the furor about the use of chemical weapons. What's the difference between that and depleted uranium or phosphorus? They're all horrible.
I think the "red line" line was nothing more than a pretext to get involved. As cautious as this President is, I find it difficult to believe he misspoke.
Maybe my tinfoil hat is on too tight, but when it comes to war, I don't trust anyone.
BlueMTexpat
(15,368 posts)LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)Was also useful (for warmongers) in how he played it. He did not jump in when the first indications of gas usage was revealed. Instead he sat back and waited for the inevitable Republican chicken hawks to publically egg him on. If he would have rushed right in, he would have been bombarded with a totally different set of talking points from the GOP. As it was, he waited until they just couldn't keep biting their tongues (maybe that spurned on their blood lust) and since they always do the opposite of what Obama wants, the President cleverly waited until it was they that led the charge with "the President's red line has been crossed so what are we waiting for...?"
AAO
(3,300 posts)Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Unfuckingbelievable
Nobel peace prize should be revoked
duhneece
(4,112 posts)What if every man, woman, child and dog in Syria could record the atrocities. People don't like being caught commiting violence, do they? What if they knew their atrocities would come into the light?
That's my creative option. I"m sure there are others we could try.
democrank
(11,094 posts)area51
(11,908 posts)We have money to burn, because:
- Apparently there's no homeless people in the US.
- Apparently no one goes to bed hungry at night.
- No one in this country dies due to lack of health care.
- Needed medications are really cheap and no one has to either split pills in half, forego medication altogether, or go without food in order to afford medicine.
- Our infrastructure isn't crumbling.
- Parents of disabled children get all the help they need in taking care of them.
- Disabled people are given enough money to live on.
- Nobody needs solar, wind or water power so let's not try to transition away from oil and coal.
- There is full employment and no one has any problem in getting a job.
- Etc.
/sarcasm
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)Last edited Wed Aug 28, 2013, 02:18 PM - Edit history (1)
What the Assault on Whistleblowers Has to Do With War on Syria
Norman Solomon
WEDNESDAY, 28 AUGUST 2013 10:22
<>
Norman Solomon is co-founder of RootsAction.org and founding director of the Institute for Public Accuracy. His books include War Made Easy: How Presidents and Pundits Keep Spinning Us to Death. Information about the documentary based on the book is at http://www.warmadeeasythemovie.org .
PETITION: http://act.rootsaction.org/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=8463
Blue Owl
(50,356 posts)Did we learn nothing from Bu$hCo's blundering buffoonery?
lark
(23,097 posts)So sad, so stupid! So, we bomb Syria, so what does that do, really? Does it necessarily mean Assad goes, No. Does it mean nice democractic people take over from Assad, hell No. At worst, it means that Al-Quaeda takes over Syria, or there is even worse civil war there and more people die as the opposition gets hopeful, or worst of all, Iran comes to Syria's aid and we are in all regional conflict that is out of control.
Come on government folks, use your heads. Responding to the Faux outrage is stupid, it doesn't get us anything good, will just cause other problems that make the first set look puny. Obama, you don't need to prove anything to anybody on this front, you don't need to give in to the 1% - JUST SAY NO!! Please!!!!!
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Force a draft.
I realize that many join the military because there are no jobs, however. How convenient for the MIC.
glinda
(14,807 posts)sakabatou
(42,152 posts)toby jo
(1,269 posts)He said, 'oh no, not me. I would have voted against it.' He bought a lot of good will and votes with that stance.
I thought he was a hypocrite then & here he is showing his colors.
Nothing but chaos from war, and god knows who will rule or what will happen.
benld74
(9,904 posts)calimary
(81,238 posts)This is SUCH a no-win situation.
kpete
(71,986 posts)Is this the best we humans can do?
peace to you,
kp