Is our Government doing a George Zimmerman on Syria?

[elehhhhna]

Are we the self-appointed neighborhood watchman?

[Wait Wut]

1. Could be.

Was Trayvon carrying chemical weapons in that iced tea bottle? Was he planning on spraying into the faces of his neighbors? Were those Skittles actually very tiny little bombs that he had planned on using on neighborhood children?

[babylonsister]

2. Oh please.

We're far from alone in thinking gassing people is a-ok. Just watched Cameron from GB on Matthews.

They're all trying to think of a solution without getting involved. I don't think it's doable.

[elleng]

3. With you, b'sis.

[babylonsister]

6. Hey!

This whole situation sucks.

[Wait Wut]

5. Yep.

Not sure which is more offensive, comparing Pres. Obama to Zimmerman or Assad to Trayvon Martin.

[elehhhhna]

9. Uh, it said US and Syria, not Obama and Trayvon

Wrong thread?

[Wait Wut]

11. Oh yeah...

...that's better.

Comparing the US to Zimmerman and Syria to Trayvon. Much better.

[elehhhhna]

15. just say "I don't get it" and move on

[Wait Wut]

16. Maybe...

...that's what you should have considered before making such a ridiculous comparison.

[elehhhhna]

7. We don't know who gassed them. Also, we don't intervene when "they" bomb and shoot each other.

And just so I get this straight - GAS = BAD, WP/DU/drones = GOOD

Right? Why?


Also - glaring problem here - our govt is so full of shit we can't believe them.

[David__77]

26. Only problem is that al Qaeda did it.

And Obama could go down as a good pal of al Qaeda if he took their bait, ever so foolishly. Thankfully he has time to step back.

[seabeyond]

4. i do not think syria is innocently carrying skittles and i do not think the u.s. is stalking

syria.

[Raine1967]

13. +1

This is a very bad and overly simplistic analogy by/from the OP.

[leveymg]

29. No, the US and Saudis are providing arms and support to AQ terrorists to do the stalking

What, you think we've stooped so low that we don't still have surrogates and mercenaries to do most of the preliminary terrorizing and killing for us? We make the rubble bounce, mostly.

[Just Saying]

8. Aren't both of these situations heated enough

Without trying to conflate the two?

No, I don't think our government and Syria are anything like Zimmerman and Trayvon.

[elehhhhna]

10. our attitude is very much like zimmerman's, imo

[Just Saying]

12. Except that we do actually have some authority since international law

Specifically prohibits the use of chemical weapons.

I don't see a comparison to Zimmerman and I certainly don't see one between Trayvon and Syria. That's actually insulting to Trayvon.

FWIW, I'm against any military action against Syria.

[elehhhhna]

17. We have moral authority? How? Or we have decided to selectively enforce international law?

International law was our excuse for invading Iraq, too.

[Just Saying]

19. I didn't use the term moral authority.

We have UN authority as they've broken international law.

Iraq was invaded based on lies and as far as I can tell so far, Syria has actually done what they're being accused of. I'm not sure what we can or should do about it regardless. Guess that's why I'm not the President!

Still has nothing to do with Zimmerman and Martin.

[leveymg]

30. We haven't even established or issued any evidence at all that it was the regime that did this.

That claim, in fact, seems implausible on its face, so extraordinary evidence -- not supposition -- must be produced, or else this is just another Yellow Cake and Aluminum Tubes moment.

[Just Saying]

33. I know a lot of people here equate Obama/Biden with Bush/Cheney

But I'm not one of them. Bush lied us into war but I have no reason to believe this President is doing the same.

Why is it implausible to you? I know that the international community has worked for years to wipe out chemical weapons and that Syria had not signed on the CWC. Do you believe they don't have the weapons, that someone else does or that it didn't happen at all?

Should I assume Biden is a liar because Cheney was?

"We know that the Syrian regime are the only ones who have the weapons," Biden said, "have used chemical weapons multiple times in the past, have the means of delivering those weapons, have been determined to wipe out exactly the places that were attacked by chemical weapons."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57600306/biden-no-doubt-assad-responsible-for-syria-chemical-weapons-attack/

[leveymg]

37. There has been absolutely no evidence produced that indicates the regime did it. Attacking

another country without producing solid, convincing evidence of the acts of which it is accused -- no matter how horrific -- is as bad as lying your war into war.

It's not at all implausible to me that the gov't did it, but there is no convincing prooof being presented, either. Just claims that it had to be the regime because the opposition is unable to carry out a Sarin attack, which is patently false in view of the fact that a UN investigation found that the rebels, had indeed, used Sarin gas in April.

I think the Administration lacks solid evidence, so they haven't produced it for independent evaluation, but they're convinced inside the bubble because it conforms with their own narrative. What else are we to assume?

The Vice President and SoS offer a very weak justification for use of US military force given the findings of a UN investigation that found the opposition used Sarin earlier this year that contradicts the Vice President's statement.

U.N. has testimony that Syrian rebels used sarin gas: investigator
GENEVA | Sun May 5, 2013 6:13pm EDT http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/05/us-syria-crisis-un-idUSBRE94409Z20130505

(Reuters) - U.N. human rights investigators have gathered testimony from casualties of Syria's civil war and medical staff indicating that rebel forces have used the nerve agent sarin, one of the lead investigators said on Sunday.

[blm]

14. Not really. War on Syria was being pushed for 8 years.

8 years is a LONG time to resist using military force because we had a key person who was talking to Assad in Syria for the last 8 years in order to PREVENT war that the hawks had wanted since 2005.

I don't think that Zimmerman even TRIED to talk it out, did he?

[babylonsister]

28. Yes, and options suck.

Zimmerman as a comparison does, too.

[JI7]

18. then you compare Trayvon to Assad

[elehhhhna]

21. Wrong. We're going to fuck up Syria, the country, not Assad.

We are specifically NOT going after Assad.

[JI7]

23. and we are specifically not going after others either , still your comparison is stupid

[leveymg]

31. So, you think this will be "bloodless"? Where have we heard that before?

[JI7]

32. i'm referring to the comparison, and there is already blood

[leveymg]

34. So, we'll staunch the bleeding by blowing up a lot of buildings and plants and equipment and people?

Doesn't sound like a surefire way to end conflict to me.

[JI7]

36. i didn't say to do any of that, my issue here is comparing this shit to what happened to Trayvon

[leveymg]

38. The comparison is a bit labored, I agree. But, on one level it is accurate. We provoked and

when Syria did something we interpreted was threatening, we're now about to shoot the dumb sucker in the chest from above. That much of the metaphor works well enough.

[Raine1967]

20. No it's not.

Are you aware of the rape crisis in Syria? http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/04/syria-has-a-massive-rape-crisis/274583/

The 18-year-old had been an FSA soldier for less than a month when he was picked up. Crying uncontrollably as he recounted his torture while in detention to a psychiatrist named Yassar Kanawati, he said he suffers from a spinal injury inflicted by his captors. The other men detained with him were all raped, he told the doctor. When Kanawati asked if he, too, was raped, he went silent.


Although most coverage of the Syrian civil war tends to focus on the fighting between the two sides, this war, like most, has a more insidious dimension: rape has been reportedly used widely as a tool of control, intimidation, and humiliation throughout the conflict. And its effects, while not always fatal, are creating a nation of traumatized survivors -- everyone from the direct victims of the attacks to their children, who may have witnessed or been otherwise affected by what has been perpetrated on their relatives.

In September 2012, I was at the United Nations when Norwegian Foreign Minister Espen Barth Eide shook up a fluorescent-lit room of bored-looking bureaucrats by saying that what happened during the Bosnian war is "repeating itself right now in Syria." He was referring to the rape of tens of thousands of women in that country in the 1990s.

Is America REALLY like Zimmerman? Is that what you are suggesting? I think it is a really bad comparison. I think it's a terrible analogy.

Syria is not Trayvon Martin. If you are going to try to compare the two -- then tell me, are you going to defend rape as a war tool?

Think about what you are suggesting. We're talking about chemical weapons and rape. I'm really worried about Syria. Really worried. It's more apt to compare it to what happened in Bosnia rather than Iraq. That said -- maybe we should stop comparing everything. Thanks to the illegal war we called Iraq -- the idea of intervention has been tainted forever for any possible *conflict* --

What do we do? Do we do nothing and watch genocide happen as we have in Darfur, and Rwanda? Or do we risk everything only to se the same results as we did in Somalia?

I'm not a pacifist -- I don't beat the drums for war either. This situation isn't black and white but thanks to the previous administration's recklessness many people can only see it that way.

People are claiming that this is a false flag operation -- I've seen *curveball* thrown around as though this administration is going into this the same way as Bush did with Iraq. I have seen it right here on DU.

I cannot believe for the life of me that President Obama, who is trying to draw down troops in two other conflicts would willy nilly commit our already exhausted military to Syria unless there was a damn good reason to.

Rape and Chemical weapons are reasons to end what is happening in Syria. These are very serious violations of the Geneva convention. They are war crimes.

[elehhhhna]

24. Both sides are raping and terrorizing each other. It's called civil war.

unless we have a malesonlybomb this will not affect rape rates

btw, if we DO make a manbomb, we should lob one at India.

[Raine1967]

25. No kidding. You still don't see that your OP is seriously flawed?

It's a terrible comparison.

It's not just civil war, it is geneva conventions violations. Chemical weapons and rape.


You made a really bad analogy. You also said:

Both sides are raping and terrorizing each other. It's called civil war.

Are you still going to defend your OP? Think about it, please. I will say that no: the US is not Zimmerman and that Syria is not Trayvon -- especially if you believe that both sides are raping and terrorizing each other.

Don't shit on Trayvon and his family like this. It's a really bad analogy.

[elehhhhna]

27. My point is about our govenments arrogance

and attitude

I get that it's a trashy analogy.

If DU wants to get ridiculous due to a complete (willful?) lack of comprehension here, fine.

Re: the Geneva conventions, when are we bombing ourselves for tossing WP & DU all over Irag?

[JVS]

22. Secular Arab governments are being profiled.

[Boom Sound 416]

35. So who is Russia in all this mess?