Are you tolerant of other viewpoints on DU?

[kentuck]

There was a time when conservatism, in any of its forms, was not permitted on DU. This was solely a progressive, anti-Bush site. However, sensible and liberal Republicans were permitted to post from time to time if they were not conservative.

The reasoning was that the conservative argument had nothing to offer. Everyone had heard all the propaganda and nonsense before. It would be nothing but a distraction on DU.

But at some point, conservative and moderate positions were permitted to post and argue their positions on DU. This was quite a change to most progressives on the board.

However, we do seem to have a lot of varied opinions, including moderate and conservative, on board nowadays. Is that a good thing? Isn't that better than preaching to the choir? How tolerant are you of other viewpoints?

[The Magistrate]

1. There Are A Few Lines I Draw, Sir...

"We all have our little list, of those who'd never be missed."

[kwassa]

4. of society's offenders who might well be underground, and never would be missed.

There's the pestilential nuisances who write for autographs —
All people who have flabby hands and irritating laughs —
All children who are up in dates, and floor you with 'em flat —
All persons who in shaking hands, shake hands with you like that —
And all third persons who on spoiling tête-á-têtes insist —
They'd none of 'em be missed — they'd none of 'em be missed!

[CBHagman]

36. I'm delighted someone would start out by referencing Gilbert and Sullivan...

...especially given the potential directions this thread might take.

[hunter]

15. Those I ignore...

... by clicking the "x" or not.

[nomorenomore08]

44. "I grab my pen and I write out a list, of all you assholes who won't be missed..."

[Warren DeMontague]

66. Otherwise known as the "Buddy" list, right?

I miss the "Buddy" list.

[hrmjustin]

2. Where do you see conservatives on this site? I really am asking not starting in my friend.

[shraby]

3. It depends on the viewpoint being offered up for consumption.

I've been here long enough that many know where I stand on a lotta stuff.

[Just Saying]

5. I think people should spend more time debating the issues

And less time trying to label their fellow posters.

Perhaps moderate depends on the point where you stand. For instance, I think the President is moderate to liberal and I'm to the left of him. However, conservatives I know think he's far left. And there are a lot of people here who seem pretty far left and spend a lot of time talking about how conservative everyone else here is. In general, I think DU ranges from a few moderates to very far left but, as I said, that's from where I stand.

[Agschmid]

14. +1 to this...

I think people should spend more time debating the issues

[spin]

65. It is also wise to realize that our party is a big tent. ...

We attract many people who hold different views on a number of subjects. If the extreme liberals drive such people away or party will turn into a little teepee.

[Warren Stupidity]

6. Even back then we had the Pom-Pom brigade, 'splainin away

capitulation and complicity over and over again.

[BainsBane]

7. Well, I think the problem is people assume those who disagree with them

are conservative or Republican. I'm guilty of that myself when it comes to guns. Yes, there are some trolls, but most of the disagreements are among Democrats.

[JVS]

8. It depends on the issue.

[kwassa]

9. I don't tolerate ignorance or stupidity well.

and those two qualities can be found in liberals as well as conservatives.

That said, most arguments on this and other websites are really personality fights rather that arguments about issues. Mostly about personal ego, and very little to do with issues themselves.

[nomorenomore08]

46. +1

You're absolutely right. I don't think the ideological divide here is as great as some assume.

[woo me with science]

10. Corporate subversion of a democratic government

and assaults on our Constitution are not "conservative viewpoints."

What we are fighting is not conservatism. It is a corporate takeover fueled by purchased propaganda.

And no, I'm not tolerant of it.

[nomorenomore08]

47. This is how otherwise left-leaning people can wind up flocking to the likes of

- God forbid - Ron Paul. Desperation, and a need to fill the void left by an increasingly corporate-dominated Dem Party.

[Mojorabbit]

49. + a gazillion. nt

[Aristus]

11. Fuck no! What a stupid question!

[cry baby]

12. Very. I come here to learn...and occasionally I find myself outside the circle

of left leaning anti govt people here. Some have very good points and arguments and some have swayed me over the years.

Lots of insult here, too...and that never sways.

[Doctor_J]

28. Wait. Fox "News" says we lefties are pro-government. Sounds like you wingers have us surrounded.

This has been the pattern of the far right for a generation.

[cry baby]

41. I am, indeed, more pro-govt than some here on DU lately. It seems many have

much in common with tea partners.

And it seems you included me in with right wingers. Funny stuff, dude!

Insults don't persuade, my friend.

[Agnosticsherbet]

13. I may not agree with what you have to say,

but will defend to the death your right to say it.

I don't agree with a number of posters, so I post my statements and supporting proof. If they don't like what I say or won't talk to me because of it, that is their problem.

And I am a liberal, well left of the current political center, somewhere along the Kennedy-Johnson limit.

[whatchamacallit]

16. The inevitable result of a center/right president expanding the big tent into conservative areas n/t

[pnwmom]

38. Funny how this "center right" President has 85% support among people

who identify as liberal.

[nomorenomore08]

50. Shows you how relative "labels" are, I suppose. I don't consider Obama an ultra-conservative

by any means but I certainly wouldn't call him left-leaning either. The scary thing, though, is maybe he is by our incredibly right-wing-skewed American standards...

[pnwmom]

52. Labels of "left" and "right" are relative -- of course.

And DU is skewed much farther to the left than the Democratic party as a whole.

[nomorenomore08]

54. Agreed. But I wouldn't call that a bad thing.

[pnwmom]

59. It's not a bad thing at all. But it can cause a certain loss of perspective

when people here are convinced that they represent the mainstream of the party and that people like Obama are on the right of the party.

Or when they accuse other Dems of being trolls because they are not as far to the left.

[nomorenomore08]

60. There's definitely truth to what you just said.

But if Obama is the "mainstream" of the party then I definitely think we've moved too far right. By the standards of most Western democracies he would be considered right of center.

[pnwmom]

61. Years ago, just after the breakup of the Soviet Union,

some Iranian friends of ours correctly predicted that the result would be our whole country shifting to the right. They also predicted that labor unions would become much less powerful. I argued with them then but now I'm amazed they could see this all so clearly.

[nomorenomore08]

63. There's no real counter-balance to global capitalism anymore.

Almost every country on Earth, whether developed, developing, or underdeveloped, is now either capitalist or wannabe-capitalist. I'm not a Marxist per se - more of a Social Democrat type - but from a socialistic perspective the present-day world looks an awful lot like a dystopian nightmare.

[pnwmom]

73. That's exactly it. They explained that the powers-that-be would no longer

have to support things like labor unions as an alternative to socialism. With the Soviet Union breaking up, and even China liberalizing, there would be no strong force tugging from the left.

[demosincebirth]

17. I consider myself very tolorant of others view points on DU, but there are some lefties, here on DU

that after a few go-rounds, like a ex-wife of mine...I wish she had an Ignore button. Some probably feel the same about me, so that's life.

[LittleBlue]

18. If someone makes me an argument in good faith

then I will listen. I even listen to the Christian people who come to my door without trying to be dismissive, even if I know there isn't any chance of convincing me to join.


I won't tolerate disingenuous arguments, or arguments that rely on bigotry, namecalling or shaming as a substitute for reason.

[Nye Bevan]

19. Very. I have never used Ignore, and never will,

which I understand puts me in something of a minority here. But I like to see what everyone has to say, even if I don't agree with them.

[spin]

68. You are not alone as I have never used the ignore button. ...

Nor have I ever reported another poster who insulted me.

[Zorra]

20. Well, I make it a point to harass trolls until they ultimately get themselves tombstoned.

I have had to put the republican lite brigade on ignore because apparently some RW opinions are acceptable here now, and I don't want to have to deal with the silliness anymore.

[defacto7]

21. I don't think tolerance

is the only or even the most important issue, it's attitude that is the problem. Argument does not have to be ugly and personal. It can be powerful and heated but insults are a tool some use when they have no argument left to offer and simply want to kick their opponent. There is also disrespect for other people's level of sensibility and there are those who falsely equate free speech with that disrespect. Civil arguments do not need to be insulting, in fact insult just gets in the way of reasonable discourse. If people need to vent, they should do it in their respective safe spaces but in the forums it is the real reason discussion can't be had. Tolerance is one thing, attitude is another.

Attitude aside, there is a point where people need to decide to learn something, think about it, or state their position and let it go. Last words mean absolutely nothing.

Opinions are all across the board on DU and having discussions that present and defend those opinions is of great value. But the attitude and the disruption is what needs to disappear by whatever means. Tolerance is only as good as those who respect discourse and humans over the games and the wars. When respect happens, tolerance will happen.

[spin]

70. Respect is important in any good debate.

Unfortunately it is often rare on an internet forum.

[defacto7]

71. This is so.

...to the music of Eleanor Rigby....

All the anonymous people, where do they all come from?

And that's the difference between good debate and an Internet forum.

[spin]

75. Excellent reply. (n/t)

[railsback]

22. I'm so tolerant, I let people call me an 'asshole' without alerting.

That's because I'm a Liberal. I'm not afraid of anybody or their opinion. And I don't ignore ANYBODY.

[Skittles]

77. I am shocked at how many weenies are on DU

alerting on name calling - I mean, WTF - what a bunch of babies

[reformist2]

23. Obama supports so many neoconservative and/or pro-business views, you kind of have to be tolerant.

[bhikkhu]

24. I think most everyone here is pretty tolerant

Speaking for myself, I disagree with most that I read, or wish that it were better informed, or wish that a different perspective could be considered. I imagine most people are about the same, as there are plenty of divergent viewpoints and there is much disagreement. That's what makes a forum useful, so I'm not complaining.

btw, I still have little idea what people imagine is conservative, moderate and liberal. The lines are blurry, people vary on different topics, and the labels aren't much use really.

[Douglas Carpenter]

25. very tolerant, as long as they are not fucking idiots

Last edited Tue Aug 27, 2013, 11:45 PM - Edit history (1)

[Renew Deal]

26. Generally, yes

Some issues are very complicated (death penalty, war and peace, abortion, immigration, etc.). Others are pretty straight forward for liberals (civil rights, the poor, healthcare {should be simple}, etc.)

[Doctor_J]

27. Problem is, to support this nominally Dem president you have to support far right policies

So it's a paradox. The conservative viewpoints are presented exclusively by the BOGers. Now they're cheering the upcoming attack on Syria. They will quite literally support ANYTHING their hero does, and I can't remember the last time he supported a left-of-center initiative.

[geek tragedy]

32. What a load of sanctimonious horseshit.

Your characterization of the President and his supporters places you on the extreme intolerant fringe, not part of mainstream liberalism.

He and they are not far right. You have to be an idiot to believe that.

[MrMickeysMom]

40. Well... geez... guess I'm one of the "idiots", then, geek...

Cause I feel the exact same way, and I'd be willing to bet that you have not met many long operating Democrats in life who are part of the Democratic party and participate in Democratic organizations.

If you did, you wouldn't be so snark with that response of yours.... talk about sanctimonious fecal factories... whoooof!

[geek tragedy]

42. You know what members of the Democratic base don't

do?

Complain about Obama supporters being rightwing.

That's the Nader/Green/McKinney line.

Hint: the Democratic base is overwhelmingly supportive of the President.

[MrMickeysMom]

79. Get some real proof behind that dumb statement...

... the same statement that equates complaining about the caving in to corporate tactics and Wall Street boot licking of Barack Obama (especially in his 2nd term). Then, when you're through exhausting yourself with THAT, find where anyone who challenges BO to carry some line from others... It sounds like you don't like questioning, which makes you more Republican-lite than a member of the Democratic party.

Put your proof where your loose lips are on this and tell me who the Democratic base is... you are a light weight and you are whining....

[geek tragedy]

83. Obama's job approval amongst liberal Democrats is 86%.

Virtually every poll shows his popularity with Democrats as a whole and liberals as a whole to be around 80%.

Pissed off alienated old white people are the GOP base. Young people and ethnic minorities are the Democratic base.

Obama supporters are the base. You are not.




http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/presidential-approval-center.aspx

Approval amongst Democrats: 80%
Approval amongst all liberals: 75%
Approval amongst liberal Democrats: 86%

74% approve, 24% disapprove (Democrats)

http://www.ipsos-na.com/download/pr.aspx?id=12953

Economist/Yougov:

79% approval amongst Democrats, 80% amongst liberals

http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploa

[MrMickeysMom]

97. "Obama supporters are the base. You are not..."

Looks like 46% and 46% approval and disapproval... Damned based can't decided WHAT they think!

Maybe the base should buy some brown shirts and stabilize those numbers a little...

[geek tragedy]

98. This is pathetic. I almost feel sorry for you.

The 46/46 split is FOR THE ENTIRE POPULATION. Meaning it includes not only Democrats, but also all Republicans.

Your compatriots in the 46% disapproval segment=the people who voted for Romney.

As for the sad little brown shirts, what a fragile, delicate, fearful person you must be to consider Obama supporters to be akin to Nazi stormtroopers.

[MrMickeysMom]

99. Don't get mad... realize what you are saying, instead...

Whilst stamping your feet and repeating over and over "the base", as it means to you, do you understand what has happened to it? There are deep concerns and divisions from said base and have been ever since the American people bailed out Wall Street and this administration stopped caring about promises made to said base. What you call the base is... baseless. It's an ever-diminishing return, and you should be concerned about that, based on this 46/46 figure.

You should be concerned about what you think Democrats will continue to support after broken promises. I'll give you a hint because I've been one probably longer than you have. We are concerned that there hardly a Democratic wing member left of the Democratic Party. WE are concerned that this all comes from ignoring "it's the economy, stupid", and spelunking to the Republicans in the House and Senate. It's about the kind of jobs driving this economy and standing that the minority races have, and it's the worst civil liberty violations since Bush II, and about NSA spying and about our standing in the world.

Obama asked his "base" to hold his feet to the fire, and it looks like the ones who've decided to do exactly that, somehow now belong to a sub-section of the people who voted for Romney, cause we call him a spelunker. Well, when you cave over and over and over again, you tend to be called that.

You are a little lost in space on the issue of who's left in the Democratic Party. It's more like, who represents it now. It doesn't seem to be working out like the party platform of 50 years ago, that's for sure, but you may not remember...

So don't get mad, start reading and paying attention to why this President isn't getting the love he thinks he should. WE expect him to not act like the rest of those assholes before him on just about everything that's hitting the front page now. And you should, too.

[Hekate]

74. +1

Ta, geek

[Doctor_J]

85. Sanctimonious? Probably. horseshit? No. If I am on the fringe,

it's only because the "center" has moved so far to the right as to be unelectable in the civilized nations of the world.

At what point do you think the BOG will draw the line? They have hung in there through Heritage Care (no public option), Don Siegelman, tax cut extensions, support for the wholesale firing of RI teachers, Duncan & Rhee (and Jeb) school corporatization, proposed cuts to SS benefits, failure to support the WI union employees, NDAA, and now an attack on Syria. What will be the tipping point? TPP? KeystoneXL? If these positions taken as a group are not far right, what else would need to be included?

[geek tragedy]

88. Let's take your laundry list in order:

1) Expansion of Medicaid, subsidies to those unable to afford insurance, profit caps on insurance companies--yeah that's just textbook Wingnut economics.

I remind you that Ted Kennedy and Bernie Sanders (the guy in your avatar) supported passage of the ACA, and that its opponents are a 90% Tea Party loons and 10% leftwingers who think compromise is a sin.

And, of course, Congress isn't a factor in your fantasy world.

2) Don Siegelman is a criminal justice matter, not an ideological one.

3) The 2012 election was about taxes going up on the wealthy. And they did.

4) "wholesale firing of RI teachers" is a state issue, not a federal one

5) Not a big fan of Duncan personally, so you have a point there

6) Proposed cuts to SS benefits--a blunder on his part, but it hasn't come close to reality

7) failure to support WI union employees--this is a petty excuse to whine, not a legit policy critique. That was a state issue involving state employees vs a state Republican--the last thing they needed was for Obama to make it all about him.

8) NDAA--what about it? It has been ruled by federal courts to not authorize the detention of a single American or even possibly authorize such detention in any hypothetical case. That's the law.

Of course, as his fringe critics on the left ALWAYS do, you ignore every single good thing he's ever done in office. And, when people do point them out, you whine about "blue links.'

Bottom line is that it's not about policy for y'all--it's about looking for an excuse to complain on the Internet.

[panader0]

29. Where's Boojatta?

[Blue_In_AK]

34. I know where.

[westerebus]

56. Where?

I'd like to know too.

[OmahaBlueDog]

30. From the "Community Standards"

It is the responsibility of all DU members to participate on our discussion forums in a manner that promotes a positive atmosphere and encourages good discussions among a diverse community of people holding a broad range of center-to-left viewpoints.

IMO, there is not much true "conservative" posting here. What I see are two things:

1) Many posters here are pretty far left of center, and view opinions as "conservative" that most Americans see as "centrist."
2) Some "centrist" posters here reach the center by a process of averaging. For example, a poster may be a supporter of the President, and a Democrat, and be a strong advocate of unions and marriage equality, but might also oppose legal abortion and gun control.

[Blue_In_AK]

31. People with other viewpoints can say whatever they want.

I usually choose to not read their posts as I generally know who they are and what they're going to say, and I don't need the aggravation.

[The Straight Story]

33. If we apply our value judgments to some positions they can seem moderate/etc at times

Example: Your body, your choice.

When applied to some things it may appear a person is moderate yet it is the same principle and ideal we espouse. Some people just have a hatred of some things and use their personal feelings to define their position as progressive when in fact it is not.

Example: Fighting for your rights and freedoms

People have been allowed to own guns since before our country was founded. It has been a freedom not limited to the few.

We find no problem with fighting for the right to have a choice on abortion and find it the right thing to do to protect rights. But if that is applied to something we don't like we yell that the person is a rw'er, call them names, etc. Those who object are suddenly seen agreeing with people on the right and the only human way possible to agree with them on anything is to be one of them. Which, of course, is stupid and makes not sense.

I think, at times, people want more of an echo chamber and to live in a bubble - it reminds me of creationists who don't want to look at science because it challenges their personal beliefs. Call people names, say they are of the devil (or in this case, conservatives), etc. Just, whatever you do, don't debate the argument or let another view be seen.

[beevul]

55. This ^^^^^

I agree completely.

[UTUSN]

35. I love all facets of the Dem coalition & all facets share some bedrock principles such as

social and economic justice. The Dem Party has always been like herding cats. Somehow the O.P. started out with the premise that DU started out as one facet of the coalition ("progressive&quot besides everybody being anti-Shrub, but then ended up saying that some members now are Liberal Rethugs, moderate/conservative (I assume, "Dems&quot . I submit that aside from the broad unity of being anti-Shrub from the beginning, there have always been "varied opinions" within the membership on the top agenda items of the various facets. While I generally eschew labels, the one I never have is "Democratic" and that's why I've been here.

As for my type of tolerance, I can see beyond the top one or two agenda items of different facets/factions and groove to the broader bedrock principles that unite us, and I know I can't convert other factions away from their top agenda item and so accept that at that level, but my disagreement is via refuting obvious points when possible and needling mildly otherwise, but I don't engage in name-calling Democratic office holders or DU members, f-bombs, or ridicule. I *do* point out nasty tactics through description of the tactics but not retaliation in kind. I save my fire for Rethugs, Dems who have forfeited their Dem standing through personal criminality or venality, and clear enemies. Countless times, when I have attacked/ridiculed some blowhard jerk who might have supporters here, the supporters have personally flamed: A attacks outsider-B but supporters-C attack A-personally.

Where is the tolerance on p. 1 of GD where Democratic office holders (KERRY, BIDEN, OBAMA) are being slurred and f-bombed, not a question. Not to mention fellow DUers.

[MrMickeysMom]

37. I'd say I'm pretty much that way...

I admit that it's much more stimulating to argue than to *alert* something that you don't like.

Having said that, I'm pretty adamant in some disagreements here, but I view that as being different than "intolerant".

[backscatter712]

39. I'm for tolerating conservative opinions... when they're kept on conservative web sites!

Why should we put up with them here?

[fujiyama]

43. I've lost patience recently

After Snowden's revelations I am no longer interested in listening to apologists for the surveillance state and the NSA, nor am I interested in hearing justifications for another military conflict. I used to consider myself fairly moderate, and in all honesty I think I still am, but this country has been at war for almost twelve years, with no end in sight. This is absolute insanity. I'm also tired of being played by the Democratic Party. The republicans never had a chance with me, because they are just amoral, evil psychopaths.

I knew things weren't going to miraculously get better if Obama got elected, and I knew Obama had my vote last year because Romney was simply unacceptable. So I was able to forget the complete capitulation on the public option, the pathetically weak stimulus, the bank bailouts, and getting involved in another stupid conflict (Libya), not to mention his raids of medical marijuana users and lack of prosecution of WS crooks - but I held out hope that Obama was smart enough to withstand the pressure to get involved in Syria.

This possible war (which seems almost inevitable at this point), along with the NSA spying, the war on journalists, and the possible appointment of a scum bag like Larry Summers for Fed Reverse Chairman - is my red line. I'm not sure if there's a party for me any longer. In fact, I'm not even sure if I fit in this country any longer. All I know is that this two party system will be the ruin of this nation.

[Arctic Dave]

57. Thank you for stating that better then I could have.

Plus a million.

[PowerToThePeople]

72. In fact, I'm not even sure if I fit in this country any longer

In fact, I'm not even sure if I fit in this country any longer

I feel the same. I also think that if you truly feel that way, then you are needed more than ever to stay in this country and raise your voice.

[Yo_Mama]

45. when you're in power you can't do that.

When the Democratic president has suggested some of these "conservative" measures. Cut SS - in the president's last budget proposal! Raise Medicare Part D payments for the poorest seniors? In the president's last budget proposal. Universal surveillance? Cough, cough, cough.

It is important that DU be at least broadminded enough to allow pro and con debate on current political proposals from the head of our party.

We're in a time of great turmoil and transition, and people have to be able to discuss this stuff. When Bush was in power and esp. when Congress was more swung to Rs, you could impose a general standard like that because what you opposed was the "other" guys. Now no longer - progressives are, to some extent, taking friendly fire and they have to be free to debate about it.

[ohheckyeah]

48. Why should I

be tolerant of other viewpoints when I'm always right?




It really all is in how a viewpoint is presented.

[spin]

64. If you believe that you are always right than you are a fool. ...

For some reason I suspect that you are intelligent enough to know this.

[ohheckyeah]

91. Notice the winking emoticon.....

I was joking.

[spin]

94. That's why I made the comment ...

"For some reason I suspect that you are intelligent enough to know this."

[ohheckyeah]

95. Oh, okay -

I just got up so I'm not real coherent right now.

[Fumesucker]

78. Exactly, those who think they know everything are really annoying

To those of us who actually do know everything.

[ohheckyeah]

92. True that.

[Pisces]

51. I am intolerant of RW propaganda and talking points. Debating the issues would be great, but I see

attacks and aggressive language meant to stir up anger not debate. I am intolerant of RW Obama bashing. Bashing of Hillary
Clinton to plant negative seeds for the possibility of her running in 2016 ( I was anti Hillary in 2008 against Obama, but will do
what I can to see her elected in 2016)

Tolerance of ignorance has it's limits.

[nomorenomore08]

53. Blatant, trollish right-wingery I generally alert on, when I notice it. Because IMO it adds nothing

to the discussion. Other than that, I prefer respectful argument. Passes the time if nothing else.

[Taverner]

58. Tolerant, yes. Forgiving, no.

If you advocate death, I have no "common ground" with you

[spin]

62. If your views are solid you should have no problem winning a debate ...

with those who oppose you.

But if you debate with an intelligent person who holds a different viewpoint you often discover that there are some weaknesses in your position. Your choices at that time are to admit that you are wrong in some respects and to alter your opinion or to resort to insulting your opponent. If you choose the former you grow in intelligence and if you chose the latter little or nothing positive happens.

Discussing issues with those who agree with you is a lot like being in an echo chamber. It's fun when everybody agrees with you but hardly challenging.

I see a major advantage in debating with someone who disagrees with me on DU. It causes me to do the necessary research to prove my point and prepares me to debate others who do not post on DU and win.

One of the main problems we face today is that our nation has divided itself into two tribes. One is conservative and the other liberal. We support and fight for our tribe and hate the other tribe. Consequently we make little headway solving the problems our nation faces.

It's somewhat like being a football fan. If you are a Pittsburgh Steelers fan as I am you may despise the Cleveland Browns. But I may be unusual in the sense that I grew up near Cleveland but was born in Pittsburgh. I favored the Browns as I was growing up but now I wear a Steelers' cap. As I sit here typing this I can look across my room and see two display helmets. One has signatures by famous Cleveland Browns and the other signatures from famous players from the Pittsburgh Steelers. If the Browns ever develop a team with the superior players and coaches I will support them in their Super Bowl. I may never like the New England Patriots but I will admit they have a hell of a good team and a great coach.

But football is just a game. We may view politics as simply another game but it is far more important to our nation's future than football. It may be great to sit in the Dawg Pound in the Brown's stadium or to wave a Terrible Towel in the Steelers' stadium but perhaps on DU it is better to allow polite conservative and moderate voices to challenge us. By doing so we can become better players for our own team. After all the Steelers and the Browns spend a lot of time practicing with other members of their teams but the real challenge is to play other teams and win. This is happening right now in the preseason games in the NFL which will help the teams prepare for the regular season. What we learn on DU by debating those who hold a more conservative view can be considered just practice for the extremely important elections where the skills we have honed here may convince others to vote for our party. Of course trolls should be banned as they do not seek honest debate but to disrupt.

[Warren DeMontague]

67. It's the God-damned screwheads.

And the poor doomed...

[olddots]

69. Why would I tolerate non democrats on a site called Democratic Underground ?

some people claim to not put people on ignore here , I have hundreds of people on ignore and there may be thousands soon , who cares ?

[David__77]

76. I don't think it's different thanin 2001, except a Democrat is president.

If Romney had been elected, the tone would seem much more "left," it's true. That's to be expected. I don't really see an issue.

[treestar]

80. What conservative opinions?

Who is intolerant of disagreement here? The one labeling anything you don't agree with "conservative?"

I am tolerant of disagreement until it shows itself to be willfully ignorant. I have tolerated real conservatives for years and can even have discussions with them. When you can't have discussions with other liberals without labeling them as outsiders, that's when a person is intolerant.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

81. Many of what I thought were progressive arguments turned out to merely be anti-Bush arguments

As soon as it became a tool useful for our color of jersey it became a valid policy position to hold. I, for one, don't like being lied to. I don't like being told "Hate him even though what he does will one day be good for us" or its corollary, "Love this evil though we once condemned it in others."

Appeals to pragmatism won't suffice. "Do it for a little while until the struggle is over" is just another lie. First, the struggle will never be over. People will forever differ in opinion. Second, the tactic soon becomes the thing itself. You cannot teach people to hate religious excesses without teaching them to hate, period. If love is your first and only object then the inclinations towards hate will erode on their own regardless of their origins.

This is what I thought it meant to be a Progressive but so many around here are steeped in envy, hatred, intolerance of any differing thought, bitterness. They are actually marginalizing themselves but unfortunately we are being marginalized by them as well. We cannot coalesce into a viable political bloc while they reject everything around them nor will we be accepted by larger swathes of the electorate as long as they worship their rejectionist ways.

[FSogol]

82. There is a good "tell" on any individual poster's tolerance.

Check their transparency page.

[mick063]

84. I am tolerant of benevolent viewpoints

However, there are lives at stake.

I do not tolerate many views when there are American lives and livelihood at stake.

[Iggo]

86. I am tolerant of a great many of other viewpoints on DU.

I am also intolerant of a good many other viewpoints on DU.

Seriously, depends on the viewpoint.

[cbdo2007]

87. It takes more than just "progressive viewpoints" to elicit change in our country....

it takes millions and millions of moderates, and even some conservatives who will jump ship on some issues because they finally come to an understanding.

If everyone on here was a hard core progressive, DU would suck because someone would post something and all the responses would be "Yep", "yeah buddy", "damn straight", "hell yeah"; instead of useful conversation and discussion.

No matter what viewpoints you have, it's irresponsibly arrogant to think you're correct 100% of the time on everything. If our country was run 100% progressive, or 100% conservative there would be just as many problems (or many more) as there are now when it's run moderately, so to discount moderate voices is turning a blind eye to the reality of the country we live in.

[ConcernedCanuk]

89. Pretty much - this is a "discussion" board after all . .

.
.
.

so different points of view are to be expected.

Be pretty damm boring if everybody agreed on everything!

Like that will ever happen . . .

CC

[Marrah_G]

90. I draw some lines

Basically if my internal response to a poster is usually "Oh go fuck yourself" then I put them on ignore.

[Rex]

93. 90% of the time, yes.

nt.

[polichick]

96. I'm tolerant of conservatives on a message board, but...

I don't want them running for office as a Democrat.

[Niceguy1]

100. a bigvtent party is ging yo have diferring

Viewpoints. I dont believe thst you need to pass s purity test in order to be a dem.

[longship]

101. The question is not just of tolerance.

It's common courtesy and learning some freaking good manners. You know. The stuff your parents taught you.

I would remind DUers that we aren't an ideological cabal like the Republicans. Disagree, even with passion. But for the love of Mike, stop the personal attacks and the other bad behaviors. And stalking the threads posted by individual DUers to make more personal attacks should get one tombstoned.

I am ashamed of several DUers who I have long respected.

Play nice everybody.