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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI don't enjoy GD anymore
Too much venomous criticism of the Pres, Kerry, and almost everyone who's anyone. Where is this all coming from? Would you have preferred Romney to have won this time, and McCain the last time?
I'm happy with what we have when I think of how really scary and disasterous it could have been..
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Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Sorry Fadedrose, but it doesn't matter one bit who's in charge of the debacle, it's the debacle itself that is important.
Let that sink in a bit.
Okay, it sunk in. I still feel the same.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)
BainsBane
(53,026 posts)It's stuff like calling the President a war criminal and constant attacks on other DUers.
Today I saw someone say Obama just wanted to keep up with Bush's death toll. That's not a policy debate. It's just hatred.
There are important discussions to be had about the war. Posts like that don't accomplish anything.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)But to be frank... right now I'm angry. I'm angry at president Obama and the administration he has created. I don't think he's a bad guy, I don't think he's a fool, I don't think he's rubbing his hands and licking his lips for a death count. But I also don't think he's making the right decision - No, that's not quite it, I think he is making the active and exactly wrong decision. Wrong for the US, wrong for our allies, and certainly wrong for Syria. And it's not even a mistake, he seems to be rushing into it come hell or high water, right or wrong.
I'm generally someone who supports Obama. But I can't be one of those people who supports everything he does unconditionally. I don't care what party he holds to, this is a completely preventable blunder that he and the administration he has built have apparently comitted our nation to, against the wishes of the US public.
And I know I'm far from the only person who's angry, hurt, or just confused by this turn of events.
BainsBane
(53,026 posts)and I don't believe in supporting a President right or wrong. I don't know what to think about Syria. I have to read a lot more about it. I don't like the idea of allowing a leader to gas his people without repercussions, but I wonder if we can do anything but worsen the situation. There is a danger in doing noting, however, since Assad will go to any lengths to hold on to power. A Lebanese colleague of mine said that to me when this conflict began well over a year ago. We are seeing that borne out. He thinks Assad is capable of murdering huge portions of the population to hold on to power. It's a nasty business all the way around.
randome
(34,845 posts)He's taken months to make this decision.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]
Little Star
(17,055 posts)decision to get into a war? http://www.salon.com/2013/08/27/hans_blix_u_s_has_poor_excuse_for_syria_incursion_now/singleton/
liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)From Obama to Jews and other DUer's who do not agree with certain others.
RKP5637
(67,101 posts)even read when the degeneration starts up into hate fests.... many are nothing more than a bunch of snarks, one trying to outdo the next. ... sad, as it's looking more and more like other net sites. ... I'll speculate to myself as to the reason/source.
Orrex
(63,185 posts)Why do you have to be such a war criminal all the time?
Arctic Dave
(13,812 posts)So do you think firing missiles in Syria won't kill anyone?
You do realize Obama has killed people in more countries then bush did, right?
But wait, are you one of the newly minted, Cruise Missile Liberals who are OK with murder as long as we don't put "boots on the ground"?
Does that mean the body counts don't matter?
bobGandolf
(871 posts)
treestar
(82,383 posts)You cannot compare the two on the evidence question. Not without being extremely uninformed.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)A war based on flimsy evidence is a war based on flimsy evidence. It doesn't matter if one war had evidence that was flimsier than the flimsy evidence of the other.
Sorry, I'm just not going to support a new war on the basis of "At least it's not Bush."
treestar
(82,383 posts)Bush or Obama it does not matter - what of the use of chemical weapons. You are claiming the evidence they were used is flimsy?
It was flimsy or manufactured re Saddam Hussein. Here there are doctors confirming the symptoms. It's certain they were used. Some make an issue of who used them, but they were definitely used.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Now I get that this has made me a "peace purist" or a "nattering nabob of negativism," or perhaps even a "cheese-eating surrender monkey," that doesn't bother me. It concerns me that rather than wait for the UN to actually investigate the situation, our president basically declared war then and there. it's the sort of thing I think we should be certain about before we start thinking about getting involved.
I have to express bewilderment that so many other posters here are perfectly cool with just flying off the handle on this. The decision to just go blow shit up in another nation is taken so very cavalierly. I suppose for many here, their endless advocacy for drone strikes as morphed into a general case of blowshituppus syndrome?
There's also the question - do dead Syrians give a shit whether they're poisoned with sarin or torn to shreds by tomahawk missiles? Is one murder somehow more righteous, more honorable, more deserved? It's okay when we do it, because we do it with flame, metal, and concussive force?
It's the sort of thing that should be weighed carefully and if entered into, entered into cautiously.
treestar
(82,383 posts)They were certainly used, and they are more dangerous to the world than any other war-method.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)They were used, by whom?? Within moments of the report, the administration declared it was absolutely unquestionably indubitably Assad, and declared they didn't care what the UN might find, argued that the UN wouldn't find anything, and then suggested the UN leave. Essentially, we were committed to throwing missiles at Assad no matter what.
That's flying off the handle.
And there's still the question - will our attack help anything? Will it make it worse? Is it better that Syrians die to our weapons than to Assads, or the insurgent's?
treestar
(82,383 posts)or that anything we do might help or not.
But it seems pretty clear evidence that the chemical weapons were used.
And I also think I heard yesterday that the US was discouraging UN inspectors from going to bomb site, that it was too late or something.
WTF is that about?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Chemical weapons aren't something you can just mix up in the kitchen. The rebels don't have a facility to make chemical weapons, and they have not stolen any from Assad - he'd be pointing to such a theft if to dodge responsibility.
In addition, the chemical weapons were "deployed" using rockets tipped with chemical warheads. Nobody's shipping those to the rebels.
So it really isn't jumping to conclusions to claim Assad did it. It would be extremely difficult for the rebels to do, and would be the rebels killing their own people.
Depends on what the attack is. I'd like them to burn Assad's chemical weapon stockpile via airstrikes and then let the Syrians sort it out.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)What sort of hazard exists to dropping bombs on chemical weapons? What sort of chemicals are we talking about? How are they stored? What sort of delivery vessels?
There are two common methods that the United States uses to dispose of chemical warfare agents and weapons. The primary method is incineration,[1] where liquid agents are burned in a furnace of temperatures over 2,000 °F (1,093 °C). For chemical agents in delivery vessels (i.e. Mortars, Bombs, Artillery shells, etc.), this is a multi-step process. First the delivery vessels are robotically disassembled in a reverse order from that which they were originally assembled. Next the chemical agent is drained out of the projectile and sent to the liquid incinerator as the disassembled projectile parts are placed on a conveyor belt and fed into a metal furnace where they are melted at close to 1,500 °F (816 °C) for 15 minutes to ensure that any contamination has been completely destroyed.[2] This method was originally developed in a pilot scale program which began in 1979 and is known as the Chemical Agent Munition Disposal System (CAMDS).
Neutralization[edit source]
In the United States, neutralization was first selected as an alternative to incineration to destroy stockpiles of chemical agent stored in bulk. Depending on the type of agent to be destroyed, neutralization destroys the chemical agent by mixing it with hot water or hot water and sodium hydroxide. The U.S. Army’s Chemical Materials Agency applied this method to safely eliminate its stockpile of mustard agent in Edgewood, Md., and VX nerve agent in Newport, Ind. Both stockpiles were stored in large steel containers without explosives or other weapon components. The industrial wastewater produced by the process, known as hydrolysate, was sent to a permitted commercial hazardous waste storage, treatment and disposal facility for treatment and disposal.[3]
Neutralization is the selected method for the Department of Defense’s Assembled Chemical Weapons Alternatives facilities in Pueblo, Colo., and Richmond, Ky.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_chemical_weapons
jeff47
(26,549 posts)which I'm not in a position to know. Which is why I would like that course of action, but will not be surprised if it was not feasible.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts).... that do the people care how they die, then you are a poor student of history.
There is a reason such weapons were banned. Yes, people DO care.
And there is NO moral equivalency between those who deliberately target civilians those those who attempt to target military targets and civilians dying in collateral damage.
Now don't get me wrong... people who die in collateral damage as just as dead as those deliberately targeted, and that's why we must be very careful before engaging in military action. People die in war. That is unavoidable.
But to suggest the moral equivalency you do ignores history, and it defied logic. It's the kind of fuzzy thinking that usually characterizes the right wing.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Which is why I suspect low-post count DU'ers advocating for blowing up Arabs might not be on the same page as me 
KoKo
(84,711 posts)He said it a little more diplomatically than you..
...but, the message was the same! What sense is it to kill more to stop killing. He said he wished that Obama hadn't been "talked into this strike" because he had been working diplomatically. (So...my question is: Who talked Obama into this, if the Ambassador felt that Obama's position had changed?)
As you said:
There's also the question - do dead Syrians give a shit whether they're poisoned with sarin or torn to shreds by tomahawk missiles? Is one murder somehow more righteous, more honorable, more deserved? It's okay when we do it, because we do it with flame, metal, and concussive force?
It's the sort of thing that should be weighed carefully and if entered into, entered into cautiously.
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)it is becoming boring... mainly because it doesn't resemble the majority of Americans, even Rethuglicans.
They are also imploding at the same time. Both Parties have complete infighting, and very nasty.
The first many years I came to DU, I rarely posted -- but read many great points of view and information.
Then I started posting about 2 years ago, I am thinking of going back to not posting anymore... for me it is a waste of time.
Arguing with people who are already set in their point of view, no matter what comes up in discussion. Total waste of time to even have a discussion.
Of course, this leads to the "center moderates" winning the elections, thus nothing will get done.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)If you hate it so much why stay? People are not going to support another war in the ME just to make you happy, so it's unlikely you are going to be any happier after it begins.
Did you support all the other ME invasions we've been involved in?
And people, especially Democrats, are not going to support massive surveillance programs on the American People.
They, Democrats, are not going to support the persecution of Whistle Blowers, they never have.
And NO Democrat is going to support the Government TOUCHING the SS fund. If you don't like it now, if that is even suggested again, you are definitely not going to like it here.
You can't force a Democratic Forum to suddenly change all its views just because you have.
It's not going to happen.
I am sick and tired, eg, of seeing any support here for Bush policies. I never thought I'd see that on a Dem forum.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Maybe some people thought no one would notice when all the policies we've fought against for so long suddenly became OUR policies.
warrant46
(2,205 posts)It sums up my thoughts also. In reading the Guardian today I saw Obama being compared to Bush 3. It was sad to see that Europe does not recognize that he is much brighter than Cheney's right hand. I find it hard to fathom the OLD vs the NEW Obama such as his new view on FDR's ---SS
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)Obama is Bush 3!!!!11!!!
Typically extremist view. Freeperish all the way. Anti-goverment trap.
Gone so far left, coming round the bend on the right.
I am a Democrat, and none of my heroes are in jail.
RC
(25,592 posts)Do you stand on principal, or do you follow the leader, wherever he may go? Are you against bu$h's policies, but for Obama's policies that were built on bush's policies? Do you think gassing someone is better than using drones to kill them? How about ambushing a group of civilians and shooting up a would be rescue van with children in it and letting the helicopter crew off, but imprisoning the person that exposed that war crime, with a 35 year sentence?
None of the neo-cons heroes are in jail either. In fact this administration is continuing too many of their policies.
Right-wing talking point: "Gone so far left, coming round the bend on the right."
Whisp
(24,096 posts)
RobinA
(9,886 posts)Who cares who is brighter than whom? In the end, a questionable war in the Middle East is a questionable war in the Middle East no matter whether the guy launching the bombs is smarter than the last guy who launched the bombs or not.
At the very least, I think it is imperative that the President get on TV (I know, they don't really do this anymore) and explain to us in at least a semi-believable way why this attack on an established leader of a Muslim country in favor of an insurgency who hates us would be different from the last 5 similar actions. And why it won't end badly per those previous similar actions.
If Obama is so smart, he has got to realize why any Syrian action under the circumstances apparently operating here would be met with extreme skepticism, if not outright disbelief, by anyone not part of the "bomb anything Muslim" crowd.
If there is a case to be made, damn well make it. And try to stick with the truth. We're approaching Vietnam era distrust in government here. [Insert picture of Colin Powell addressing Congress about WMD proliferation in Iraq.]
Oh, and just to be clear. I do not hate Obama. Obama is the President of the United States. A guy who makes decisions for our country. Hate is personal. I disagree with him on policy in this case.
warrant46
(2,205 posts)I was part of that -- so was John Kerry. I'm still that way.
He on the other hand appears lost somewhere
RobinA
(9,886 posts)appear lost somewhere! It's like they step on White House grounds and all memory and previously formed beliefs are erased by some giant magnet.
Used to be mistakes were repeated over decades. By new people. Now the same people are making the same mistakes every couple years. Oooohh, let's help some rebels. We haven't tried that and had it gone horribly wrong yet this month.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)You are on the fringe, unlike the rest of the stable Democratic BASE.
You need to fuck off with accusing DUers of supporting Bush's policies. You are just making shit up and doing a disservice to DU.
I should alert your post, but would rather everyone here on DU see how disruptive you are.
I am glad your views are a small minority in this country. The world needs less extremism.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)I also feel is breaches the TOS. You complained about DU imploding and then it seems you lit the dynamite stick.
I'd suggest an edit or self delete to remove the personal insults from your previous post.
Of course this is just IMO.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)I suggest you request edits on those that refer to Obama as Bush III!
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)I didn't see anyone really doing that unthread but if I missed it point out the place and I will.
I read a post that did not make a lot of sense, and mentioned something the guardian said... Is that the one you are referring too?
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)"People are not going to support another war in the ME just to make you happy, so it's unlikely you are going to be any happier after it begins."
Just making shit up....
and it goes farther...
"Did you support all the other ME invasions we've been involved in? " No, I didn't. Maybe she needed an actual reply. I don't beat my wife either.
"And people, especially Democrats, are not going to support massive surveillance programs on the American People."
umm, yes they do support it. So we can continue down the ENTIRE list.
"They, Democrats, are not going to support the persecution of Whistle Blowers, they never have. "
THEY? You mean DU Democrats? Very disruptive.
"And NO Democrat is going to support the Government TOUCHING the SS fund. If you don't like it now, if that is even suggested again, you are definitely not going to like it here." gee willy. Now you are back to being a DEM?
"You can't force a Democratic Forum to suddenly change all its views just because you have." -- can't even realize that the majority of DEMs do not support her EXTREME position.
"I am sick and tired, eg, of seeing any support here for Bush policies. I never thought I'd see that on a Dem forum." -- so now we are being called Bushies. I think when you call out fellow DUers as Bushies, you have gone over the edge.
It should be alerted, it's disruptive. It's not Democratic. It's the perpetually disgruntled acting out in a thread that started out stating with the OP stating "Too much venomous criticism of the Pres, Kerry, and almost everyone who's anyone."
And of course the PERPETUALLY DISGRUNTLED could not resist from posting in this thread.
mick063
(2,424 posts)Obama is Bush III...........according to the foreign journalist.
frylock
(34,825 posts)don't try and candy coat that fucking turd.
warrant46
(2,205 posts)Why not tone it down a little, you can make more of a point if you get the anger out of it. But I recognize the anger. This place has a lot of that lately.
Just a friendly suggestion
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)Same old anti-Obama crap, every day. And labeling DUers as well. It needs to be called attention to.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)What the fuck, man.
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)aimed at. Telling someone to fuck off is a personal insult. I've been on many juries where a personal insult was allowed to stand because jurors agreed with the insult,I think that is infuriating and childish. Either you're OK with personal insults or you're not,there is no middle ground there.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Shit, if you "disagree" with an OP one could take that as a personal insult-
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)There are a lot of DUers who annoy the hell out of me,but I don't use the jury system to punish them.If you're judging a personal insult based at who it's used on,you're not participating in a jury,you're participating in a popularity contest. This is my #1 pet peeve about the jury system.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)and re-reading the sub-thread-
On the other had I can see how one poster continually posting bullshit prompts someone to "blow a gasket"
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)to see it bleed into the jury system.I'm glad to hear you would vote the right way.
Response to snooper2 (Reply #199)
seaglass This message was self-deleted by its author.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)Little Star
(17,055 posts)
tridim
(45,358 posts)No Sabrina, we are not.
This hyperbolic extrapolation has to stop. It's killing DU.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)prevailing sentiment on DU at all. Not even here in NYC. When I mention what goes on here to most Democrats, they are shocked.
The prevailing sentiment on DU has come to most resemble the furthest left 5% of the Democratic party. While I often agree or sympathize with that viewpoint, you cannot govern from there (by 'there' I mean 5% of 40%, 40% being the most generous estimate of what percentage of Americans are Democrats) in a Democracy, and that is why there is so much apparent angst here regarding the President's decisions.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)I consider myself way left of Obama. But there are many here on DU that are so Left, I see them as hurting the main Democratic agenda.
I was labeled "transphobic" (I never heard of that word before, "fear" of transgendered people?) just the other day, because I pointed out the FACT that in military prison - you do not have the same rights as civilian prison. It didn't matter anything else. Just stating THAT fact.
I didn't even state what my personal feeling were on the issue... and in fact somewhere else in the thread I stated I had no problem if Chelsea Manning receiving hormonal treatment, but maybe it should be from private donations, not taxpayer money - and even then military prison probably will still not allow it anyway. The attacks on me were instant and so over the top -- and to many other DUers here as well on the same topic. And ALL of the people attacked supported LGBT rights.. go figure.
The perpetually disgruntled have become militant. No compromise. Shoot first.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)For whom facts and feelings are the same thing.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)prevailing sentiment on DU regarding foreign intervention. Most people are far more concerned about losting their jobs and their health care and their homes and are asking where the money is coming from for all these foreign wars when we claim to have no money for education and HC and other REAL National Security issues.
You must mix only with political junkies by that same logic.
This 'you cannot govern' meme sprang up around 2004 to attempt to slap down the idea that Progressive Democrats were capable of running this country. I rejected it then and still reject it.
Please post a link to the numbers you just posted.
And who is this 'they' you speak of? The only people I know who adhere to the notion that Progressive Democrats cannot run the country are political insiders on both sides, and even half of them don't agree.
Just one more thing regarding 'governing'. Looking at the state of the country and especially the Middle and Working class, not to mention the poor, your argument is that the 'governing' Progressive Dems are not capable of completely falls apart. Unless you think the 'governing' under which we've been operating over the past several decades that led to the dire state of the country today, is somehow a success.
Polls show that a majority of Americans have lost complete confidence in this 'governing'.
Progressive Democratic 'fringe' policies MADE THIS COUNTRY what it was until the kind of 'governing' you claim is what we need, began in the eighties and the country has been declining in every way ever since.
Arguing on what constitutes 'governing' over the past several decades isn't going to bolster your condemnation of the 'left' or your claim that Progressive ideas are not acceptable for 'governing'. The record itself proves you wrong.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)Silent3
(15,178 posts)..."agree(ing) with the prevailing sentiment on DU". "Sentiment" is a whole lot more than a binary yes/no, for/against response. The general public's view is, frankly, against but not very passionately against the US getting more involved in Syria.
While passion can be good and necessary, there's a lot of extreme anger, vitriol, cynicism and conspiratorial thinking mixed with in the "passion" on DU, most of which the general public would not identify with at all. Whether or not you think any or all of that elevated "passion" on DU is justified or not, it's a big mistake to think it has much to do with general public sentiment.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Perhaps. If true, it isn't becuase DU has moved left, it's because the Democratic party has shifted so far to the right.
Twenty-five years ago I was a conservative Democrat; today I would be considered far left. My views haven't changed; it is the Democratic party that has galloped to the right.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)don't really have a legitimate complaint if a Democratic President represents the views of the grassroots. The idea of a Democracy is that it governs via the consent of the governed.
If you believe the hypothesis you have posted, what is necessary is an effort to change the view of the people of the country.
mick063
(2,424 posts)And I follow your advice right here. This also explains the premise of the OP.
Dislike of those provoking a grass roots movement.
When I declare this administration to be a failure, that is exactly what I am trying to do. Start a movement.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)It makes the 'Center' way, way out of the mainstream. Just as I thought.
But that small % who call themselves 'The Center', have infiltrated the Dem Party and hi-jacked the country together with the Neocons. But ONLY because Progressives had no idea what was going on, UNTIL NOW.
Yes, we were too trusting, maybe even too Partisan, but NOT ANY more.
Things are changing as to how Progressives intend to 'move forward' from here.
There has been a huge awakening for Progressives and it took the past several years to make it happen.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)Utopia is just over the bend! If only we could just bring down the evil government!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)'Don't Tread On Me'! Isn't that the mantra of the 'bring down Government fringes?
Another non substantive response littered with anti-Liberal rhetoric.
Good luck 'bringing down the Government'. I don't think that kind of talk is allowed here.
The 'statistic' you hate so much is accurate as reported in the news yesterday, btw. It must hurt to be so wrong all the time.
91% opposes military strike on Syria!
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)Perpetually Disgruntled... always moaning or whining about something.
I am pro-Obama and pro-government, so not sure why you ARE MAKING UP STUFF AGAIN. Just another example of how you pull stuff out of your ass.
But I guess facts are not your thing...
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)You brought up 'bringing down the evil government' did you not? I assume when people produce something so completely out of thin air, they are most likely projecting. No one else on DU that I ever knew, ever even suggested such a thing.
I simply attributed to you, your very own fantasy. And considering the handle and all, it seemed appropriate.
Speaking of children, having lots of experience with them, I know this. When they run around calling people names, making false allegations against them, someone explains to them that if they continue to do it, not to be surprised when it bounces back at them. You seem surprised that you can't just throw around insults without someone calling you on it.
Children are amazing, they learn fast.
Adults, not so much.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)You live in a childish dreamland of extreme left thinking.
I consider myself a Progressive. You stated above that the Progressive Left is now "mainstream". Nice dream.
You stated: "It makes the 'Center' way, way out of the mainstream. Just as I thought."
The Center is always... the Center. You live in some other reality. Perpetually disgruntled, you post EVERY DAY something negative.
You live in a fantasy land that thinks you are going to march Dick Cheney in handcuffs to the Hague. It's a wild extreme Utopia you dream of that is NEVER going to happen... so why don't you let the adults take charge, an adult like Obama. And I know you have a hard time living with that fact. You post daily against Obama and the Democratic leaders, yet you call yourself a Democrat.
And you are constantly attacking me, a left of Obama Democrat. You seem very confused, and lash out at anyone who disagrees with you. That is the behavior of a child.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)when polled on multiple issues. Those polls have been posted here over and over the past decade. The grass roots are already there waiting for the govt to respond. Two recent issues where this is true as examples are gay marriage and marijuana laws.
Soundman
(297 posts)BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)Romney would be worse.
He's just playing 9-dimensional chess. Just you wait and see.
He's letting all the banksters run free because if you give them enough rope, they will hang themselves.
(But seriously ,folks. People who want to blindly support Obama and the other national Dems / DINOs / 3rd wayers / DLCers should really start ObamaUnderground.us. That domain name is available. I will even pay for that domain if that means the 3rd-wayers will stop crapping on this site.)
tridim
(45,358 posts)Thanks BlueStreak for proving the OP's point.
tblue
(16,350 posts)a couple $$. Really needs to happen if they want to silence anti-war voices because our (D) POTUS must be popular.
If they want him to be popular, they should get him to stop the march to war/Larry Summers/drone-type crap.
And please have him explain how an innocent killed by chemicals is worse off than one killed by r/c flying robots.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)is that it isn't likely that one of our drones would fall into the hands of terrorists, who would then use it to target others. It is more likely that a terrorist could do something with the chemical weapons.
But that is an issue whether or not Assad uses some of those chemicals on his people. And if we are not smart about this, we will INCREASE the chances that terrorists will end up with some of Assad's stockpile -- if they don't already have their own supplies.
Every time we invade one of these countries, we end up making thousands of new terrorists.
tblue
(16,350 posts)does serve a purpose. An explosion here or there sure keeps that gravy train chugging along. Ugh. I hope I am being way too cynical. I hope, really really, that I am wrong!
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)a) That there are religiously-driven terrorists who are pure evil, operating without any conscience
AND
b) There are no people equally evil and amoral who are driven by money and power.
The al Qaeda terrorists look and dress a little differently than the MIC terrorists, but they really aren't that much different at the end of the day.
840high
(17,196 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)
For instance, like GingrichCare being shoved on us, though the idea to force buying of private, for-profit, lightly regulated insurance, with no public option, was created by republicans.
And Obama wanting to project fellow republicans from being charged by war crimes; why am I not surprised?
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Peacetrain
(22,873 posts)I mean any thread can devolve.. but there is one thing GUARANTEED to make it sloppy
Someone will post their opinion.. and then follow it up with a challenge to what they consider the "other side" to come in and make some comment.. and the challenge is usually pretty snarky, with some sort of name calling attached..
Best advice I can give.. is hide the thread.. no good will come from that thread.. it was never meant to start a conversation.. it was meant to vent a spleen as they used to say.
LuvNewcastle
(16,843 posts)Some people obviously intend for their their threads to be flame-fests from the get-go, and they do it over and over again. If people would ignore those threads and rec and comment in the other threads, DU would be a lot different. Judging by their behavior, most DUers want things to be the way they are.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)Analogy: I married a peaceful man, but if he decides to beat up the neighbors, I'm out.
tblue
(16,350 posts)Last edited Thu Aug 29, 2013, 03:13 PM - Edit history (1)
Not the ones saying, "There has to be a better way and, by the way, we can't afford another war." That's what a Democrat sounds like, IMHO.
Warpy
(111,222 posts)I was hoping saner people would prevail this time.
I'm completely disgusted by the lot of them.
The neocons would have gotten their way months ago if Romney had gotten in. Or if McCain and Bible Spice had gotten in.
It's not helping. I'm definitely having a "stop the country, I want off" moments.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Like the NSA.
Or telling Eric Holder to stop sending SWAT teams in to arrest sick cancer patients for smoking pot. That sort of thing.
Now there is a debate going on around military intervention and Syria. From where I sit, especially if Assad used chemical weapons, there are no good options, it's a shit sandwich however you slice it.
But to expect that this isn't going to bring some spirited debate up on DU is not realistic.
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)But that doesn't mean I'm going to agree with everything.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,228 posts)what you're witnessing is just a continuation of the "this president can't do anything right" meme that's been set up by the president's foes on the left. You can't expect nuanced thinking from the teabaggery, but it's the black & white thinking on the left that's become increasingly troubling.
Hard left liberals used to be smarter than their right leaning counterparts, or at least that's the impression they gave.
donheld
(21,311 posts)If you're going to try to simply flip it, the reply to the flip is just as simple.
GAC
Cha
(297,028 posts)a war instead of a Jobs program". the fucking stupid burns.
Is "hard left" code for ignorant liars?
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Cha
(297,028 posts)that they swear is a fact.
It must suck to be in a neverending contest to see who can come up with the most hateful shit imaginable about the President. "drooling 
"
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)and find another dumb policy move he's made that you'll have to defend on DU? 
treestar
(82,383 posts)and realize that you're never going to get elected.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)I come here for data to make up my own mind, not to be told that I don't have the right to my own opinion without having some juvenile label at me because I didn't parrot the party line. And believe me, there are movements afoot that are seeking to make a party of some sort. And they don't allow others to disagree.
Cha
(297,028 posts)but it's not the President. 
Misery is easy to create. It's the tool of the maliciously lazy.
Happiness takes work, it is the reward for a life being well lived.
Make the choice to not let others steal your hard earned joy.
Cha
(297,028 posts) Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)Where have I seen that before...
Oh: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=about&forum=1102 (94 posters blocked lol)
Now that's creepy. 
tridim
(45,358 posts)Another fabulous example of why Neo-DU sucks. Thanks Neal!
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)here is neal with 400 posts
he's new and probably hasn't been into any forums except the highlighted ones atop the list
he maybe has yet to hear of the closed forums like the BOG and the rules about those forums
he sees a forum with almost 100 refused members and comments on it
instead of explaining to neal how the bog is a private forum, and that discussion is more closely moderated there so as to allow the members to express, without disruption. the policies of the POTUS and to express. without disruption, support for the POTUS in a spirit of welcome he instead is accused of making the place suck and words are put into his mouth
when you want to see why du sucks look at things like this
tridim
(45,358 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)and get all personal with others is creepy. Note the name calling in your post and in many other posts from the end of things you claim as your own. It is the meat of their posts, name calling, preaching about the flaws of others, scant ability to actually advocate the position they claim to support and tons of emoticons 'for Obama'.
Sure folks can be nasty from every side of the spectrum but only one segment blames Obama for their own crappy verbiage. The folks who claim to own 'support of the President'.
It is what it is. Cheap verbal games 'for Obama' who uses none, name calling 'for Obama' who reaches out to his actual enemies as part of his basic philosophy. It is creepy to blame him for what you type yourself.
An interesting point is that this OP is against the TOS of GD. Not supposed to whine about DU, but when folks can not advocate a policy position, all they have is whining about how the sinners are so sinful.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Thanks in advance.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,228 posts) Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)Just one of my peevs.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,228 posts) 
kas125
(2,472 posts)is blocking 94 people.
NealK
(1,862 posts)I said that the group is creepy, I don't care whether they support Obama or the latest pop star.
tridim
(45,358 posts)Thanks for clarifying that it is the GROUP that you believe is creepy.
I'll clarify as well.. NealK: Groups of Obama supporters are creepy.
Fucking Neo-DU.
NealK
(1,862 posts)Thank you for making DU suck.
Rex
(65,616 posts)That is just sad. It also explains A LOT.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)
/sarcasm off
Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #118)
tridim This message was self-deleted by its author.
dogknob
(2,431 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)Said here.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3539997
Jury voted to leave it.
sheshe2
(83,708 posts)stuck on stupid. You're right Cha, it burns.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)it is fair to ask whose side he is on.
He is undeniably on the side of the banksters. There is no doubt about that.
I didn't think he was really in the neocon camp, but now that seems to be in question.
Cha
(297,028 posts)BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)'hard left' in the U.S. since the mid-50s, when a bi-partisan effort smashed the Communist and Socialist parties here (assisted by Kruschev's revelations of Stalin's depredations).
Hard left = 'radical'
Moderate left = 'liberal'
Or at least that's the way I learned the political spectrum.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)donheld
(21,311 posts)To never be able to disagree with Barack Obama, John Kerry, or any other Democrat is totally contrary to what is good for the country. Condoning drone strikes, War on Syria, NSA spying, etc is not in the best interest of any American citizen. To excuse it, or even keep silent about it makes us just as guilty as those who push for it.
Do you love Democrats more than everyday citizens?
Cha
(297,028 posts)is different than their own.
donheld
(21,311 posts)about anything.
Cha
(297,028 posts)cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Don't you see the double standard? Many here are getting ANGRY because they've continually been beaten down and have not seen a true opportunity to try REAL progressive values from the leadership of our country for over 30 years and many trying to masquerade as "mainstream Democrats" when they are carrying out the agenda of DLC actions of this supposed opposition party funded by the Koch brothers. And then many try to push us in to a corner and call us "far left", "peace purists", "libertarian lovers", etc. while at the same time complaining about any kind of critique of Democrats as if we should fall in line and do as we're told.
I resent being called a lover of a group of people that worship a woman who worshipped a serial killer just because I side with some of their stances on accountability of our government violating our constitutional rights of civil liberties. Though I don't do so, when many "defending Obama" do that sort of lumping together their critiques of others with name calling that really doesn't fit, can't you see how many might respond back that Obama is Bush when he's adopting and even going beyond in some cases many of Bush's policies in prosecution of whistleblowers, drone strikes, and other abuses by the CIA, NSA, etc.? They probably should focus on the specific similarities and not just say "Obama is Bush", but they probably feeling like they are responding in kind by those who overreach and call them libertarians too in the same fashion of overgeneralization.
Cha
(297,028 posts)NealK
(1,862 posts) morningfog
(18,115 posts)You do yourself a disservice using it.
Cha
(297,028 posts)but, it's so different for those who think snowden can do no wrong. They don't "worship".. only those who support the President do that.
Fucking hypocrites.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Assange's ego has taken his image and message off the rails. I fully support Manning.
I also applaud all of the releases of information that each of them have provided.
President Obama has made some bad decisions, and this one to go to war in Syria is abysmal.
Worship is a stupid word in this discussion. Full and non-critical support of anyone should raise questions.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)with hate you wont even consider the well written responses to your post?
you may be helped by anger management classes
tridim
(45,358 posts)Thanks G8r!!!!1
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)see if you spot the hate ok?
fucking stupid
"hard left" code for ignorant liars
hateful shit
fucking Greenwald, Assange, and Snowden
Fucking hypocrites
I would like you to direct me to anything I have posted that nears the hatefulness of this
tridim
(45,358 posts)...you wont even consider the well written responses to your post?
you may be helped by anger management classes"
You don't even know that you're being a jerk. Typical Neo-DU 'tude.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)there is that better?
now we took care of me lets talk about what you did to neal
when can I expect you to soften that response?
tridim
(45,358 posts)I'm not going to soften my response for anyone who is trying to destroy DU.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)all he said was 94 banned is creepy
it is creepy if you don't have background
you chose to insult rather than educate
how does that fit into the scenario vis a vis suckage here at du?
tridim
(45,358 posts)I never had to educate newbies before Neo-DU became an anti-Democratic shit-hole. Why is that?
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)you have earned my pity
tridim
(45,358 posts)Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)What you feel dying is your echo chamber.
tridim
(45,358 posts)Thanks Union Scribe!!!!11
DU used to be about discussing progressive issues with other Democrats. Now it's just an "echo chamber" according to the oh-so wise Union Scribe, who apparently doesn't think the DU of old was worth anything at all. Typical Neo-DU bullshit.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)If that was the stuff of the golden age you long for, represented by what I've read from you, then you can keep the memories for yourself and I'll gladly take DU as is.
Marr
(20,317 posts)Yeah, and now it's about a handful of self-described "centrists" who rationalize every right-wing policy their beloved Leader decides to push. And a whole bunch of progressives who don't like it.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)is even slightly pro bomb Syria is on RW radio, and from the DU centrists or whatever they call themselves. And still they are whining that DU doesn't resemble Democrats in any way shape or form. What are these people smoking?
snooper2
(30,151 posts)They need money FYI
Puglover
(16,380 posts)bitter home of tombstoned DU trolls DemocratsforProgress is a real happening spot. Of course they have their little chat room. Or so I heard.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)All of the folks you have accused that of can point to you issues where they have disagreed with the President.
All of them. But you keep repeating that tired meme as if it means something.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)
defacto7
(13,485 posts)World thinking make for a very different perspective on America and the value of politics.
There is a point to be made also that Romney would have been disastrous and I also think this is true. But failing to criticize our leaders is little different than being ruled and forced to think according to the party line. I will never stop criticizing when I see incongruence. If they have information that can clear up their inconsistencies with facts, they can cough them up, I will ponder them, then decide if I need to change my position. But until then, I call'm as I see'm.
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)My point is not that you can't criticize the government no matter what party is in - it's just that the criticism is hateful and mean and seems determined to bring down the president.
treestar
(82,383 posts)It is odd to never agree and claim to be a Democrat though.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)I know, hard to believe, huh? It is true. People get really pissed off about it.
Safetykitten
(5,162 posts)You should see it.
TomClash
(11,344 posts)And images of neo-con Buddhas appeared!
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Nobody likes that guy.
ButtHead Buddha.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)When a Democrat is in office, do those issues suddenly vanish? Then we have a chance to make a difference in more than the letter after the name of the officeholder. Then we can see positive changes being made.
Presiden Obama told us to hold his feet to the fire. Now you are upset because the issues that we care about, the principles we base our opposition to the Republicans on, still matter to us. Perhaps we are the problem. Perhaps it is that we don't understand that these issues are just campaign issues to the rest of the Party to scare us to the polls. Perhaps we do understand that, and we are screaming because of that understanding.
I am sorry you find the principles of your fellow members disturbing. I say sorry, but not surprising. Because the rest of the party wants us to shut up too. Oh they want our money, and they want us to volunteer, and they want us to vote. But they want us as silent sycophants, silent unless we are praising the party for moving farther right than the Republicans.
Go team.
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)and is polite.....you are not the type I am tired of...
I am a progressive too, and am disappointed in many things, but can't bring myself to hate...
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)I recall disagreeing with you in another thread, so happy to read this excellent post.
Well said, they want our support but won't support our policies, and we're supposed to just shut up about it.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)
Summer Hathaway
(2,770 posts)Pay attention to the real world, where people aren't talking 24/7 about Snowden/Greenwald, or debating whether Manning should be referred to as a 'he' or a 'she' as though our very existence depended on the use of the 'correct' pronoun, or screaming at each other about Obama having lied, Biden having lied, Kerry having lied, Hasting's widow having lied, the coroner reviewing Hasting's death having lied, etc.
Go out into the real world and inhale the facts, exhale the rhetoric - repeat: inhale the facts, exhale the rhetoric.
Once you are again rooted in reality, you can come back to DU and realize that the stuff posted in GD constitutes some of the BEST comedy available on the internet.
When viewed through the lens of reality, GD can be incredibly entertaining departure therefrom.
Cha
(297,028 posts)fadedrose
(10,044 posts)But after a while some of it stops being entertaining, and I prefer other pasttimes more . .
Summer Hathaway
(2,770 posts)and be at peace within that world of reality, and within yourself.
TomClash
(11,344 posts)Though nothing provides more entertainment than the sardonic, breezy disdain of reality's denizens, armed with antiquated adverbs.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)about mean ole DUers not appreciating Manning-bashers intentionally disrespecting transgender people? Manning is now Chelsea Manning. It's really not that difficult. Get over it.
Summer Hathaway
(2,770 posts)If you read the posts from those who think the use of pronouns is a life-and-death issue, it is obvious who is 'bitter' and who is not.
The recognition of the rights of the trans-gendered is trivialized by those who choose to make an issue of pronouns, in lieu of making an issue of those rights.
And that's what many here have done.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)You know the one that always gets your name wrong.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)long after the fact that most of us want others to respect Manning's identity with proper pronouns. It's just a simple human dignity issue, yet I keep seeing this grousing about it with a weird attached sense of defiance, like you're really standing up to DUers by obstinately refusing to acknowledge the simplicity of using "she" and "her".
Summer Hathaway
(2,770 posts)I have used "she" and "her".
That does not change my opinion that those who have made an issue of that usage are trivializing the more important issues surrounding the rights of the trans-gendered.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)Multiple times posters here have called Manning "it"--they were left alone by juries. That isn't acceptable.
Nor frankly is calling Manning "he"--the entire basis of transgender rights is the right of self-determination in identity. If people refuse to acknowledge that self-determination by (often mockingly) continuing to call Manning "he" that is a fundamental rights problem as it goes to the heart of acceptance of a transgender person as a real and functional person with a real identity.
There is nothing trivial about pronouns in this context, anymore than the language used to refer to other minorities is trivial.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)is a vital stepping stone on the path to the right we have been seeking for decades. The proper pronouns and gender words are the outward manifestations of the larger issues, it is how a person knows another is with them. What you are doing, saying it does not matter which pronouns are used, is a trivialization of what they are asking for. It is not you nor I that gets to decide what is important. It is the people being misaddressed as a form of disrespect and slander.
I hear we, and by we I mean those of us who give a shit and are connected to this issue, have found the last vote to pass an inclusive ENDA, maybe, possibly in spite of the Senate super majority bullshit. Endless years of this.
So those of you who heard about Manning and started in on the pronoun trip are announcing your own atavism, does not matter what you think, that is how it will be perceived by those who matter, the victims of that bullshit and of the discrimination doled out by the straight community. By your community, Summer dear. Your community is the source of all the oppression, so when you demand to tell and instruct, that in itself is a statement of supremacist views.
But you enjoy yourself, exploit the suffering of others at the hands of your community for your own jollies. It looks good on you, and adds a sparkle to your cohort as well.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)
Sid
Cha
(297,028 posts)threads that are raving maniacal, ignorant accusations thrown at honorable people.
And, appreciate those that bring some rational thought.
Mahalo fadedrose.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)that does not mean they wanted Romney to win. For the millionth time. This beyond tired talking point needs to have been retired ages ago.
If you aren't enjoying general discussion, oh well. Start hiding threads and putting duers on ignore, or just don't look at the forum, if it is not making you happy.
ProfessorGAC
(64,951 posts)The problem isn't just the vitriol described in the OP.
It's the "you just don't understand because you're not a true progressive" purity police that set the tone.
So, simply dismissing it as a "tired meme" is equally tired because it misses the point by a light year.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)nt
BainsBane
(53,026 posts)DU has become somewhat of a clusterfuck lately, mostly GD and LBN. Thankfully the other forums aren't near as bad. I started hanging out in the lounge more. Never did that until recently.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I don't agree with war with Syria, but I still support the president. I know he doesn't want war either but he kinda made a Red Line and has to stand by his word. Now I hope for minimal casualties.
I know Barack Obama will not have us there for a long time. I trust him to do the right thing.
Cha
(297,028 posts)PBO that feels that way about Assad getting away with mass gassing.. it's Britain, France, Germany, Turkey, the Arab League, and Israel..
snip//
snip//
France
"French President Hollande says France is prepared to take action against those responsible for gassing people in Syria.
Speaking Tuesday at a conference with France's ambassadors, Hollande said: "France is ready to punish those who took the heinous decision to gas innocents" in Syria last week.
Hollande said it seemed certain that forces loyal to Bashar al-Assad were behind the chemical attack.
On Monday, Hollande told Le Parisien newspaper: "There are several options on the table, ranging from strengthening international sanctions to airstrikes to arming the rebels."
Hollande spoke with President Obama on Sunday and told him France would support him in a targeted military intervention, according to the paper.
"It's still too early to say categorically what will happen," he was quoted as saying. "The U.N. experts are going to investigate on site. We also have to allow time for the diplomatic process. But not too much. We can't go without a reaction when confronted with chemical weapons."
There's more..
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57600235/u.s-military-ready-to-attack-syria-hagel-says/
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I'm tired of the rush to blame the president for everything. And I can almost taste the hatred around here. I'm just going to trust him on this one.
Cha
(297,028 posts)is "drooling for war". Someone's drooling and it ain't the President.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Damn they're out in force tonite! It's my night to defend the president apparently, and so I shall.
They better watch out I'm in rare form right now!!
Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)Led by France, a nation totally disinterested and disentangled from Syria's internal quagmire...
God, the naivite....
TM99
(8,352 posts)Your quote:
I know he doesn't want war either but he kinda made a Red Line and has to stand by his word.
Fuck that!
He was supposed to make a 'Red Line' for single payer healthcare, and instead we got the compromise of the ACA.
He was supposed to make a 'Red Line' and not ever bring SS or Medicare to the deficit table, and instead we got his Simpsons/Bowles commission and chained CPI proposals.
He was supposed to make a 'Red Line' about climate change, and chirp chirp, we have gotten no serious long lasting proposals that might mitigate things.
He was supposed to make a 'Red Line' about letting the Bush era tax cuts expire, and instead we got constant games of checkers over raising the debt ceiling.
But now, you and others expect us to blindly and with sweetness oozing from our lips praise Obama, Biden, and Kerry for their war mongering, stern 'Red Lines' and standing by their words to save the poor babies of Syria bullshit. No thank you.
Yes, that is the kind of mindless personality cult thinking that leads me and many others here to make 'venomous posts' about how wrong this Neocon war game really is whether it is pushed by a Bush or an Obama.
I was a Republican in the Bush II years. I was vilified then for NOT supporting the great Irag Invasion. I was right, and they were very, very wrong.
Now I am an Independent who leans more Democratic watching another run up to yet another Middle Eastern debacle using the same tired propaganda techniques from a decade ago - WMD, evil dictator, harms his own people, think of the women & children, we can't let this stand, etc., etc., etc. - and it is deja vu all over again.
How do you know Obama will not have us there long? Bush, Rumsfield, et al said the same damned thing about Iraq. You do remember that, right?
Why do you trust him to do the right thing, when he has shown us quite a few times in the last few years, that he won't do the right thing?
I, and others, will continue to speak out. And if it takes venomous words to get people to snap the fuck out of it and wake the hell up, well then so be it!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Iraq. He's pulling us out of Afganistan. That's two wars he didn't get us into that he got us out of. Then Libya, he got us out of there quickly without boots on the ground. I trust him on this.
I don't expect you to praise him or like him or anything else. The vitriol I can do without. Name one other president that got a health care reform bill passed. You can't because they didn't. He did. It may not be what your spoiled self wantsbut it is damn better than we had. My neighbor gets to pick all of her prescriptions now becaus of the changes in Medicare. She no longer has to cut up her heart medication and take half doses. She can walk her dog now, when she couldn't even catch her breath before. And single payor is on the way.
Now about the chained CPI, he can propose whatever he wants. Climate change,gun control,repealing DADT. ending DOMA, marriage equality, jobs act, dream act it doesnt matter.He knows and I know that the republicans are never going to make a deal with him. He looks reasonable and they look like fools. As do you for lighting into me like you know how I think.
Of course I remember bush and Rumsfeld and the Iraq war years. The years when you were a republican were the worst years for this country. Thank you for voting for that asshat.
Our president always trys to do the right thing unlike Bush and Cheney.
He fixes problems that other people screw up. Like the economy. And those two wars. DADT.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)LBJ. Ever heard of Medicare?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)For everybody. Young, old , middle aged all inclusive. Pre existing conditions, stay on your parents plan till you're 26, donut hole closed, insurers must spend 80% on you or give you a rebate, Medicaid expansion and all that other fun stuff.
I'm 32. I don't remember LBJ.
Medicare doesn't cover me, but Obamacare sure does and I'm thankful for that.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)"Reform" doesn't mean "changes since I was born."
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Medicaid and Medicare were formed and initiated under LBJ. They were reformed under the Patient Protection and Affordable care act.
You can only reform what you already have. We had nothing in place before Medicare and Medicaid so I can't call it reform since you can only reform what you already have.
So in closing, Barack Obama is the only president to pass health care reform.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)knew how to read a dictionary.
But that is how I meant it. I shall now retreat back into my bubble of youthful arrogance and go find my mindless personality cult. And my propaganda. I've misplaced it, it seems.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)then it doesn't count as health care reform?
P.S. It's really health *insurance* reform, not health *care* reform.
P.P.S. We will still be paying twice as much, per capita, for health care as do other developed countries. Most expensive health care in the world, by far.
P.P.P.S. Our stats on health care outcomes are probably the worst in the developed world.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)But I'll give it a go.
No that's not what I meant. But it does affect people on medicare, wellness checks for free and closing up the donut hole.
My cousin has had diabetes since he was a teenager. By the time he was 35 he had gone into kidney failure. He moved up to Alaska where I'm at because he was on his last legs. He had been in a coma many times in a few year period of time and the doctors said there wasn't anymore he could do besides dyalysis. He was doing bad when we picked him up from the nursing home and i thought he was going to die. Once he got up here he finally qualified for Medicaid and Medicare, he had been denied in California several times but in Alaska he got it. Had health care reform not passed I might not have tried to apply for him again since he'd been denied before.
Six months ago he got a double organ transplant ( pancreas, kidney). He is no longer diabetic. He does need to take anti rejection drugs every day an they cost a lot. Medicare pays for them and since the donut hole is closed he doesn't have to choose whether to buy his meds or buy food.
You are right. It is health insurance reform, not health care reform.
I hope one day I'll wake up to find that all the health insurance companies have filed bankruptcy and we can just pay our health tax every year and have single payer. We do pay too much.
Our health care outcomes are poor in comparison, if we stay sick longer they get paid more.
I want single payer, but I never get what I want, when I want it. I probably never will. That doesn't mean I won't push for it. I will.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Should not post before second cup of coffee...
That's fantastic that your cousin has done so well, and fantastic that you've helped him to live.
"I never get what I want"
We can get it: but we need to demand it. And, like the Republicans and the other Republicans (Third Way Democrats), we'll need to start using sharp elbows to get it. But since 2/3rds of Americans want most of the same things: Medicare for all, higher minimum wage, less defense spending, higher taxes on the wealthy, etc., we can definitely win.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)And I think people should be constantly suing insurance companies until they're out of business.
And when it's time to get out my pitchfork let me know. I'll be ready. Next year I will be working to unsuccessfully get rid of my racist congressman Don 'wetbacks' Young. We gotta get these people out of congress. I hate congress.
TM99
(8,352 posts)1) He didn't end Iraq. It was already ending when Bush left office. In fact, he wanted to keep troops there longer.
2) Afghanistan has ended? No not yet. He announced a withdrawal by the end of this year of 30,000 troops and yet he has also not committed to what number will be there in 2014 for the NATO portion of the war. Numbers proposed included around 10,000.
3) One President? Easy....LBJ.
4) Spoiled? Are you fucking kidding me? Yeah, I am so spoiled because I want universal healthcare for everyone including yourself. But what did the ACA provide? Universal Health Insurance. While this may help some, it also hurts many others. And the only ones really helped are the insurance companies. Single payer is no more a guaranteed on the way than the repeal of the temporary Bush tax cuts, the closing of Guantanamo Bay, or the end of the Patriot Act which candidate Obama offered.
5) He 'evolved' on gay rights. Enough said.
6) I said I was vilified. I did not vote for Bush either time. Nor did I vote for Obama in 2008. I saw both men very clearly for who they were and what they would ultimately do or not do for this country. Democratic true believers are absolutely no different than Republican ones. You want to know why? Human psychology. Period.
7) He fixes problems? No prosecution of those who lied us into the Iraq & Afghanistan Wars, and he is now actively pursuing immunity for them. Not enough of a financial stimulus package such that only Wall Street has benefited from the 'recovery'. Increased drone strikes. Reauthorized the Patriot Act with additions. Allowed for Bush era surveillance state 'reforms' to be expanded and trying to convince us that they are helpful and not invasive. The ACA is a joke when it comes to actual health care for the majority of Americans. We don't need 'affordable' insurance, we need affordable care. Maybe you are too young to understand that yet.
Finally, yes you proved yet again why those of us who are rightfully pissed at Obama do come across as venomous. I attacked Obama in my reply to you. You attacked me in your reply back defending 'your' president, calling me spoiled, assuming that I voted for Bush, and being a snarky wise ass.
Grow up.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)You reap what you sow. I am a grown woman and I don't need some man I don't know talking to me like I'm an idiot.
This is from you.
But now, you and others expect us to blindly and with sweetness oozing from our lips praise Obama, Biden, and Kerry for their war mongering, stern 'Red Lines' and standing by their words to save the poor babies of Syria bullshit. No thank you.
Yes, that is the kind of mindless personality cult thinking that leads me and many others here to make 'venomous posts' about how wrong this Neocon war game really is whether it is pushed by a Bush or an Obama.
I never said anything like that. I stated that I wasn't for the war but I'll trust him to get it done quickly, and hopefully with low casualties. It's happening whether I like it or not.
I did say that he made a red line and now he has to stick by it.
Now lets get to it.
1. Bush wasn't in office when it ended. If Obama was so blood thirsty he could have forcibly kept the troops in Iraq. He didn't . He pulled them out. He wanted to leave some forces there but he couldn't and that was that.
2. I said he's ending the war in Afganistan. Not ended, ending.
3. LBJ initiated Medicare and Medicaid. Obama reformed them. Key word reform. Medicare didn't exist before that so he could not reform something that was not formed yet.
4. Spoiled because you are soo mad you didn't get your way that your bitterness bleeds into your writing. I want single payor. It will happen. Maybe even before I'm dead. That's my opinion. It's okay if I have some of those right?
5. I'm glad he evolved on gay rights. You should be too if you really care.
6.Sorry you were vilified. You picked your party.
7. Yes he does fix problems. I'm too young? Thank you. You must be an older, middle to upper middle class white male. That type always takes it upon themselves to let us young ladies know what we don't understand yet. You want me to make you a sandwich? Wash your clothes, m'lord?
8. If you learn to express yourself in a way that doesn't come off rude, mean and vicious, you'd get a better result.
Of course I assumed you voted for Bush. You were a republican.
You are too puffed up with your own consequence.
If I grow up, will you stop drinking before you post?
This was fun. Lets do it again sometime.
TM99
(8,352 posts)If you learned how to not attack, then take what is a natural response back, without pulling out the 'oppressed minority female' card maybe a real conversation, even a rancorous debate, could occur.
I don't need 'some female' to do the same.
This whole thread is about those who support blindly this position on war, and those that don't. And those that don't are called venomous, peace purists, etc. When anyone fights back against that, then the poor victim card is thrown down.
1) Trusting he will 'get it done' with low causalities and quickly is no different than those who supported Bush and the Iraq War. I have seen war. It is never quick. It is never without many causalities. So yes, I will speak down to you on this as you do not have the military experience that I do.
2) Doesn't matter if Bush was in office or not, he initiated the military pullout. It finished once Obama entered office. Obama can not take credit for something he did not initiate.
3) Obama 'reformed' medical insurance not medical care. Please read more on the realities instead of the damned Democratic talking points. LBJ most certainly reformed healthcare. Medicare is the biggest gift of extended seniors life this nation ever knew. Even an ex-Republican like myself can appreciate that. The ACA is nothing more than the Heritage/Gingrich plan from the 1990's (when you were not even a teen) recycled as a 'grand compromise' by Obama.
4) Of course you are entitled to your opinion. It may be right or it may be wrong. I am also entitled to mine, is that OK with you as well? 
5) I am sorry you have 'daddy issues' and have had it rough. I am not going to be the projection for that rage. I am male. I am not white. I am bi-racial. I am not upper middle class. I am struggling now more than I ever had due Bush and Obama's failures for the last 13 years, and I am struggling with a real and serious medical condition. I know exactly how the ACA didn't help me and has actually hurt me more. And frankly, I am certain I would make a much better sandwich than you could, and I do my own laundry thank you very much (as I have since a boy). 
All you have is snark with assumptions and bullshit. Enjoy your youthful arrogance.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)You have a most nasty way of trying to deliver your point. It smacks of arrogance and self delusion.
This thread is not about those who blindly blindly do anything. It's a discussion board. I don't care about criticism, but the vitriol is a bit much. Oh the agony! Obama ain't doing what I want right away when I want it! Wahhhh! So stupid to be madder at the president than we are at the repubs.
I'm a left libertarian bordering on anarchist so I can't just leave my party. I'm here to stay. And I know which party welcomes my vote and which one wants to stop me from voting.
I never called you a peace purist. You're just juvenile and downright mean. And I'm laughing at you.
You began the attacks sir. Not me. You responded to my post on this thread by getting up on your high horse and you're falling off. You talk smack and then pretend that somebody did your spoiled self wrong.
You do need this female to set you straight. You're not as smart as you think you are. You did say you were a republican at one time,right? Now your're an independent. Good move.
1. I think he said the same thing about Libya. No boots on the ground, in and out with assistance from our allies. We are not still in Libya, so I believe him. He may be wrong but I doubt it.
2. I can give Obama credit for actually pulling them out. Bush had years to pull us out, he did the paperwork, Obama did the work.
3. I grant you that one. But it still saved my cousins life by allowing him to get Medicare so he could get his double organ transplant. So I'm grateful. The donut hole being closed allows him to purchase his anti rejection drugs. It isn't perfect but he would be dead without it.
4. Absolutely your opinion is your own and you are entitled to it.
5. What the fuck are you talking about daddy issues? I've never mentioned my dad on here. He died almost 20 years ago of a drug overdose. I barely knew him.
6. Okay you are not white. Good for you. Now tell me for the record how exactly has Obamacare hurt you more. Obama has not failed. Bush failed. Both of them. Ronald Reagan is the one that screwed this country up with his war on drugs and the continuing of the southern strategy.
And endless other things.
No you cannot make a better sandwich than me. I am the ultimate sandwich designer. It is known.
While I enjoy my youthful arrogance you can enjoy the bitterness that is your destiny.
All you do is blame blame blame. That's why I laugh at you. My generation has had it hard and we are tougher than you. We are used to disappointment. Our parents generation was full of crackheads and gangbangers and bullshit artists.But we are optimistic about the future. We know there won't be Social Security for us and if there is it will be cut. Yet we still work our asses of to pay for those ahead of us even if it means a sacrifice for us later.
Why aren't you receiving proper health care ? Is it a long term illness or Is it something treatable? It was hard getting my cousin on medicare and Medicaid but in the end we got it done. You may qualify depending on your condition and if it has made you disabled. There is a way to find out, I'll help you if you want even though your mean as hell. I can handle your cranky snarkness. It makes me laugh.
Don't forget to tell me how Obamacare hurt you.
TM99
(8,352 posts)debating with a Millennial.
Special snowflakes are so wise and knowing. 
A single link is all I need to shatter all of your delusions about President Obama. It is too bad you won't be open to reading or understanding it let alone taking it to heart and being upset by it.
http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/barack-obamas-2nd-term-it-bill-clintons-3rd-or-it-ronald-reagans-9th
I am glad your cousin was helped. But please for the sake of others, get out of your generational narcissistic bubble and see that just because someone you love got what they needed doesn't mean that others did, will, or can.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)You never did say how Obamacare hurt you. Maybe you were being disingenuous.
A millennial is so beneath you, right? I am a voracious reader with a high intelligence quotient, therefore I'm positive I can understand perfectly well what's written.
I have no delusions about president Obama. We will never have a perfect leader, but I voted for him. While I may not agree with everything he has done, I cannot call him a failure. Because he's not.
Generational narcissistic bubble? You sound like that column from your link. I've read tha very same collumn before an I thought the same thing then that I think now. It sounds like Cornell West blathering on blaming the president for everything.
So how did Obamacare hurt you? How? I want to believe you are not making stuff up to support the idea that everything Obama does is bad. But you may be. And it's pathetic.
These millennials that you look down upon are the future of this country. I can see from your words that wisdom isn't guaranteed as you age.
Obama is not your enemy. Congress is. The right is.
So how exactly did Obamacare hurt you? Is he sending you to a death panel? A FEMA camp?
The reason I told you that about my cousin is so you could see that Obamacare helps people, and as it takes full effect It will help more people. My brother in law just got some money back from his insurance company and his rate went down. He's paying much less than he was paying before.
It may help you and yours too.
Insult me all you want to, it helps me up my game and deal with childish insults from grown men.
Independent huh? Methinks not.
treestar
(82,383 posts)They are much more amenable to compromise.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)Perhaps it's time to stop playing the Blame and Shame game (in both directions), and look at the likely economic outcomes. And, acknowledging who are the "true leaders" of this big political game wouldn't hurt.
And, I don't want to hear about the pitiable victims of the murderous Syrian 'government.' We didn't hear an outcry for intervention in Rwanda, East Timor, Somalia, the Democratic Republic of Congo, or Myanmar. Might that be because there are no economic benefits to be had in those countries? Might it be for other, less "noble" reasons?
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)NSA spying? in support of reduction in Social Security cost of living index increases? Could you have EVER imagined DU as whole rallying in support of Larry Summers being appointed Chairman of the Federal Reserve?
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)Don't spend much time here anymore.....things change, I guess.. not always for the better..
warrant46
(2,205 posts)When I remember Bush was the Chimpanzee
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Perhaps one exists where criticism of Obama is prohibited.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)
struggle4progress
(118,268 posts)with some actual public-contact organizing, like phone-banking or some face-to-face work, such as voter registration
Then you can use DU to help you get the info you need to discuss issues with people, while the public-contact work can help you stay grounded in reality
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Even easier solution: spend more time in BOG group. If it's not active enough for you, you can make it more active by starting more OPs.
Preferred solution: Make a post in GD complaining about GD.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Have you ever entertained the possibility that the President is deserving of this criticism?
How can we expect the President to do the right thing if we do not criticize him when he does the wrong thing?
If we had been united in our perfectly justified criticism of the President, maybe he wouldn't have proposed cuts to social security, maybe he wouldn't have appointed Geithner, Immelt, Pritzker, Duncan and the others.
If we had united in our criticism of the President maybe he wouldn't have voluntarily extended the Bush tax cuts.
If we had been more vocal in our criticism of the President maybe he would have insisted that his DOJ investigate the bank fraudsters instead of allowing them to escape prosecution, after they pulled off the greatest crime in all of history.
ladyVet
(1,587 posts)Have you ever entertained the possibility that the President is deserving of this criticism?
How can we expect the President to do the right thing if we do not criticize him when he does the wrong thing?
If we had been united in our perfectly justified criticism of the President, maybe he wouldn't have proposed cuts to social security, maybe he wouldn't have appointed Geithner, Immelt, Pritzker, Duncan and the others.
If we had united in our criticism of the President maybe he wouldn't have voluntarily extended the Bush tax cuts.
If we had been more vocal in our criticism of the President maybe he would have insisted that his DOJ investigate the bank fraudsters instead of allowing them to escape prosecution, after they pulled off the greatest crime in all of history.
Exactly. Let's not become the D equivalent of freeper town. "Support the President, right or wrong" is the mantra of the other side. We're supposed to be better than they are.
Recent reports that the DOJ won't consider prosecuting Bush & Co. for war crimes makes a lot more sense with the news that Syria is close to getting our war machine on it's ass.
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)unless it's really a Victory.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)The perpetually disgruntled are going to remain perpetually disgruntled.
I don't know anyone in the real world who flips out as often, or as loudly, as some on DU's self righteous left.
I do know one Tea Party guy who comes close, but he never gets any traction.
Its reached a point on GD where over the top hyperbole and exaggerated outrage are very fashionable. Its hip to anti-government.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)I seem to run into the same 'hair of fire" group here daily.
Paranoid and disgruntled. I have neighbors who are Republicans that watch Faux News that act the same way. They can't understand why the rest of the world doesn't see it "their" way. I just laugh them off.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)thinking was primarily a right wing thing ... but DU has taught me otherwise.
There is a segment on the left who is just as paranoid, sees the world in black and white, and is just as sure that they personally are the government's biggest fear.
On the right, they see themselves as defending America from a tyrannical government. And one day, they will be the heroes who, having defeated the government, create a Christian Conservative Utopia.
On the left, they see themselves as being the ones who will bring down the evil capitalist system. And one day, they will be the heroes who, having defeated the government, create a Egalitarian Socialist Utopia.
Two totally opposite views of Utopia, each of which can only be reached with the downfall of the US government.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)generally optimists, and realists, action oriented idealists ... and that even in a bad situation, they looked for the good.
Conversely, I saw many on the right as totally opposite. Very cynical, always seeing the bad first and foremost.
I've learned that the left has its own doom and gloom wing.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)Yeh, the ones that you can tell are licking their lips with pleasure when there is a sniff of some possible catastrophe. Especially if it undermines this Admin.
*Imagining a brat in a store isle, on the floor stamping feet 'I want my Apolcalyse Now!' waaaaaaaaaaah!
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)some type of Utopia will clearly follow.
For the right, its a return to the Christian Nation that we really never were ... for the left, its some sort of Socialist Paradise.
Each is sure that after everything falls apart, their version of Utopia is obviously what happens next.
treestar
(82,383 posts)It is DU posters who should govern!!!!!!
You are right. They claim Democrats are just as bad as Republicans.
With Rmoney as President and especially with this R Congress? No question we'd intervene in Syria and would have already done far more in Libya and Egypt. We'd still be in Iraq.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)the glass is always half empty, no matter what the subject is.
which makes it half full for the Repuglicans.
jeezus. if you can't help, get out of the way.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Let's support a surveillance state because REPUBLICANS!!!11!
Hey, I've got it. Let's support continuation and escalation of virtually the entire Bush corporate agenda*....because REPUBLICANS!!!!!11!!
"Looky looky." How embarrassing for you.
_________________________________________
*What Orwellian Bullshit
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3358281
Whisp
(24,096 posts)for as long as I remember.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Damn shame the direction we are going.
McCain and Rmoney don't even factor into the calculus.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)From the embracing of wacky conspiracy theories,to using extremely questionable sources,to snarling the label of "dino" at the majority of democrats. I've come to the conclusion that there is basically no difference between the extreme right and left,both are destructive forces.
FSogol
(45,464 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)I take it you see no difference between eliminating the progressive income tax and replacing it with a sales tax (Steve Forbes) and nationalizing the banks and making them a public utility (Democratic Socialist position).
Far leftist here. I can certainly distinguish between my positions and those of the extreme right.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Link?
avebury
(10,952 posts)that we should blindly follow the Obama government (or for that matter whoever is President). After the endless years in Iraq and Afghanistan, the last thing we need is to get involved in yet another war. We need to keep our eyes and attention 1000% firmly on what is going on within our own country. Do you really think that, if we go to the rescue of the Syrian civilians, the wacko Republicans in Washington and throughout the states will stop their non-stop efforts to pass legislation to try to destroy female reproductive rights, impede voting rights, deny LGBT equal rights, and whatever else they want to pass in order to keep the masses down trodden while protecting the 1%ers, Corporations and the MIC? Look at what has occurred as a result of 9-11, the Patriot Act and Homeland Security. Federal funds (in the name of Homeland Security) have allowed way too many police forces to become militarized with equipment that is normally found in armies. We have an increasingly out of control police forces who routinely abuse their powers (and are not brought to heel by local/federal government(s) or by the good cops).
If we continue down the road we are on, I would like to know who on this planet will come to aid of American civilians down the road.
It seems like when people start to wake up to what is going on, our government either starts to play the terrorist threat card or try to get us into another war. And like the good sheep that we have become, people will change the focus of their attention. We have become a nation of ADD with a population that has a problem maintaining focus.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)That says volumes.
demwing
(16,916 posts)You found us out, damn it. There's a plot to overturn the 2012 election and swap out Obama with Mittens, which we will make happen by complaining--in a liberal, online forum--that Obama isn't progressive enough!
It's pure genius!!!
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)and it is a good point.
I disagree with military action against Syria. If the President does it, he is going to get negative attention on my show for it. Probably a lot of negative attention.
But I am not going to degenerate into hyperbole about it or attack people who disagree. If he attacks Syria for using chemical weapons, that does not make him a warmonger or war criminal. I simply disagree that it is up to us to again enforce international law and I think we should respectfully decline playing that role again for a while. People hate us for it, we've spent too much money and blood doing so and its not going to get us anywhere.
tridim
(45,358 posts)The rest of DU has become freeperish and disgusting. I don't even call it DU any more, it's Neo-DU, and it has nothing to do with progressive issues or Democrats or Liberalism.
RKP5637
(67,101 posts)AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)In your world, is it alright to criticize this Republican Secretary of Defense?
In your world, is it alright to criticize Republican policies? Or do they become off limits if Obama adopts a Republican to head an agency related to those policies?
AsahinaKimi
(20,776 posts)But sometimes...there are things that are important things to say...
Faito!! Ganbare!!
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)sincerely.
AsahinaKimi
(20,776 posts)
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)No embarrassment intended. The example is one we could all stand to try and emulate more.
AsahinaKimi
(20,776 posts)Honto desu. (truly)
mick063
(2,424 posts)I hope it chases away the plutocrat sympathizers.
Are you one of them?
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Kind of lost me at "Would you have preferred Romney to have won this time". We are living in the present, not the past. "think of how really scary and disastrous it could have been". Many of us are thinking about the record of this administration and are worried about its future direction. I do fully agree with the first part. Much of the criticism is unfounded. Many of the attacks on Kerry yesterday were a joke.
TBF
(32,029 posts)We wouldn't want to upset you by discussing policy, economics, etc ... because the only possible thing that can happen in this world is that we are faced with Obama v. Romney. There couldn't possibly be other topics of discussion, policy points, alternatives etc ...
deutsey
(20,166 posts)
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Sorry to be blunt, fadedrose, but the record is crystal clear.
Foreign policy has been a continuation of welfare for warmongers and Big Oil.
Domestic economic policy is little more than welfare for Wall Street an trickle down for the rest of us.
That's not why I vote Democratic. I want DU to remember what the Party is -- supposed to be, anyway -- about:
Dash87
(3,220 posts)What you're doing is telling people to stop thinking critically and support the President's potentially disastrous decision to strike Syria because he's a Democrat. We should never do such a thing in this society.
tridim
(45,358 posts)
Myrina
(12,296 posts)Goddess forbid anyone think out of lockstep with what YOU prefer we all think in order to be "democrats".
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)Evergreen Emerald
(13,069 posts)We citizens of the world are divided--by everything.
Every opinion, every thought, every objection becomes us v. them.
If you are not with us, you are a terrorist.
Divide and conquer. That is how they are getting away with stealing our treasure and sending us to war on a dime. People are voting against their best interests, because they are voting for "us," rather than those monsters.
Divided and conquered.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Statement of Purpose
Discuss politics, issues, and current events. No posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports unless there is really big news. No conspiracy theories. No whining about DU.
See those last words? No whining about DU. But you do exactly that. I think you do so because you lack the ability or desire to actually advocate a position you feel strongly about. So you do a sermon on the subject of the failings of those sinners you see all around you.
Those who do not respect a house tear it down for their own agenda. No whining about DU.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)since you're so up on what does and doesn't conform to the GD SOP, you should sign up to be a Host.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=hosts&volunteer=1002
Sid
lpbk2713
(42,750 posts)It's always sumpthin.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)am once again fascinated by the navel gazing here with so many people forgetting that DU is to discuss problems, not be the problem.
Yes, it's really not fun any more if you take it seriously. There is, as usual, not one person here with any special knowledge, insight, or inside connection to any facts not mentioned in the Guardian, Russia Today, Kos, or maybe even that rightwing rag, the NY Times.
But that doesn't stop the absolutists from demanding that they have the one and only answer to pretty much everything they have deigned to set their hairy eyeballs on.
I posted yesterday about the Quaker view of "peace "purists" and got but two responses. Perhaps that was because I took no stand on Kerry or Obama, but simply said they have an entirely different perspective than we do.
BTW, Quakers were "peace purists" in WWII, too, but didn't spend a lot of time trashing FDR.
dawg
(10,622 posts)At least you can click a mouse and make your problem go away.
Rowdyboy
(22,057 posts)and discovered that my entire family, not just the older ones I expected but ALL of them HATE Obama and all other Democrats. I quit posting on Facebook that same week because I want my family to at least tolerate me. I'm still here on DU because I truly don't care what a bunch of strangers think of me.
As for your post, a big K&R.
Marr
(20,317 posts)"Would you prefer Romney"? Seriously?
nolabels
(13,133 posts)When i came here a decade + ago people always had this dyed in wool approach of how things should operate. Now that the shoe is on the other foot and still can't acknowledge that the best plans of mice and men never go as planned. You should understand the establishment saw it coming and adjusted it's plans to deal with when it got here. The only thing that i can see that seems to have changed in the last ten years is some awareness of how the deck has been stacked. But really after that, same old B.S. 
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)It's actually pretty typical pre-mid-terms DU.
I remember the lead up to the 2012 general election. You were either on board with Dems or you were out. Oh how it must have chaffed many a Dem hating ass!! I savored it even though I knew the day after election day the hatred would flow again.
Ah well, it must pay the bills or Skinner wouldn't let it go on.
Julie
City Lights
(25,171 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I also agree that some things said here are are over the top.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Because hey, any disappointment with Obama acting like a Republican really means you want Republicans to win.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)who, like me, is gay - a longtime member I used to respect. Then after reflecting a bit and realizing it was getting me upset for ZERO real reason, I went back and deleted my response to him, and then resolved that I'm going to lower my participation here.
It's not fun anymore, it's just vexing, and there's never any upside, so what it the point.
K&R
Rex
(65,616 posts)I've never let the disruptors get to me, so DU is never any different. I always enjoy it.
ConcernedCanuk
(13,509 posts).
.
.
GD = General Discussion
It get's messy now and then, but it is still informative.
Can't take the heat?
Leave the room.
Simple as that.
CC
MisterP
(23,730 posts)it's not that hard to figure out
Rex
(65,616 posts)I keeeeeedddd...
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)Yeah, Obama is better than Romney. He's better than McCain.
He's also better than Ghengis Khan and Vlad the Impaler. YAY! The Perfect POTUS!!!
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Seriously, people are always going to be critical of political leadership. It's why it is called politics and the art of being polite to people whose guts you despise.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)They'd prefer Rand Paul.
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)The OP is NON-PERSONAL opinion of the general atmosphere of the board, and some of the nastiness in the responses simply proves the point.
Logical
(22,457 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)I mean seriously.
Here we go again. It's exactly like the run up to Iraq.
If you don't speak up about how awful this is--you're dead inside. You're just dead. When Bush did this, we all agreed it was sick. It's still sick, in 2013, no matter who is at the helm. THINK, please.
Bombing Syria and killing Syrians will do NOTHING to the Syrian government. It's atrocious and disgusting. And to think they're doing this to the American people--again, in our name. It's justification for ten million people protesting n Washington. And you're upset because someone expressed an opinion about this sick war, on a message board.
Really?
This is not about Obama. This is not about Kerry. It's so much bigger than that. This is a crisis that affects our entire planet. We should not be wasting our nation's treasure (lives and money) on this sick, neocon drama.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)I notice people state a LIE and then bash based on their patently false statement. It is as if we had a Stupid invasion sometimes.
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts) Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Go to the BOG where the truth is quickly removed
