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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRepresentative government, my ass.
America does not support strikes on Syria.
Congress is less popular than cockroaches, and strikes in Syria are less popular than Congress.
These corporate pod people we allowed to slither into office over the past 30 years do not represent us. They rule us. We are hostages at this point, not citizens, when it comes to most areas of policy.
Over and over again, we get the big FU from our government. They do whatever the hell they want and they use our money to do it. Our tax dollars poured into surveillance systems aimed at us, private prisons, bailouts for billionaires, assaults on journalism, and now yet another bloody war for profit. Meanwhile, they are replacing our paved roads with gravel, shutting down our children's schools, and dismantling our social support systems.
Our "representative government" is an obscene joke at this point, both parties. WE DID NOT VOTE FOR THIS SHIT.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)questionseverything
(9,651 posts)is because we do not actually count our votes and no one seems to track the reporting systems....so the wrong pols get into office
in the article from the link i provided in the Ak primary in '10 the results from the 19th to the 25th change drastically
total voters go from 3393 to 2159
repubs go from 2793 to 94
dems go from 600 to 2065
and no official can explain why but we collectively accept the results as accurate
so chances are we did NOT vote for this
Scuba
(53,475 posts)questionseverything
(9,651 posts)no one knows how many vote
as the article i used as an example shows maybe 3393 voted maybe 2159
electronic voting machines started being used in the mid 60s and we have gone "center right" ever since then but how do we know that the "reports" are accurate..we dont since citizens are not allowed to oversee every part of their own elections
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)One of the four authors of the Help America Vote Act, who has financial ties with ES&S, is our Secretary of Defense.
With the NSA operating under the purview of the Defense Department, Sec. Hagel also controls the state's spy apparatus.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Democrats. But a certain willful amnesia appears to have set in regarding all these Republicans that are now part of this Democratic Cabinet.
I didn't want Republicans in power, they were voted OUT. But it appears that they can now get back into positions of power even after they lose.
The OP is correct, our government doesn't give two cents for what the people think anymore. They just go right ahead and do whatever they want and if we don't like 'screw you peons' until election time rolls around again.
And they know they can depend on a few on both sides who will support them no matter what. THAT is how they keep it all going to their advantage.
questionseverything
(9,651 posts)should be universal since "we the people" can not oversee the entire process
look at the alvin greene mess is sc,,,,supposedly a homeless guy with out even a cell phone beats out a respected retired judge for the dem nomination....and no paper of any kind to count
http://www.bradblog.com/?page_id=8954
questionseverything
(9,651 posts)with his machines counting like 80% of the votes
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7392
and hava is a nightmare...as bad as the optical scan counters are at least there is paper involved.....when the es&s machines lost 16,000 votes in florida 13(jennings race) there was absolutely nothing to look back on
and it is not just the counting machines at the polling place but also the reporting of results
i do not know if hagel is still heavily invested in es&s but i know because of his history with making a sham out of elections i was upset when current admin appointed him(and at the time i didnt realize he would be in charge of spying on me too)
brooklynite
(94,503 posts)Politics is a dynamic process. If there's an opportunity to step in and capture votes nobody is going for, someone will do so, and "TPTB" or "Party Bosses" won't stop them.
The reality is that most voters, including the disaffected ones, are lumped into the middle. That's why the Republicans and Democrats have historically framed Center-Right and Center-Left positions. That doesn't mean that the Parties don't occasionally gravitate to the fringes, but by and large, candidates focus on the middle ground because that's where the most votes are.
The interpretation among some here is that BOTH Parties have moved too far to the right (just like the interpretation of our FRiends is that both Parties have moved too far to the left). If you feel that way, you're welcome to try and change things: I would refer you the Populist Party movement in the 1880s, which responded to a perceived rightward shift of the Democrats, and which built a successful third Party which realigned the Democrats. But I'll caution that they did so through the hard work of building a grassroots network of State Parties which got local candidates elected; not by simply waiting for a vanity Presidential candidate to come along.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... are you suggesting they're all out of the mainstream?
"Vanity candidate". Clever, but lacks the subtlety you need.
Red Knight
(704 posts)It's almost impossible to get a viable third party going these days.
Even when a so-called "grassroots" group like the tea party tries to become something it is taken over by groups who work for the same old people and those people dictate the direction of the new party.
I agree with Carlin--it's game over. We're circling the drain.
brooklynite
(94,503 posts)The Tea Party movement, even if its leadership was "co-opeted" managed to move the Republican Party to favor "Real Conservatives" rather than "RINOs". Occupy might have been the counterweight, if it hadn't decided to give up on the political process before even trying.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)When they were co-opted, they became corporatist, which is not the same thing as conservative. That is why popularity of the Tea Party is at an all-time low, even within the Republican Party.
The relevant battle here isn't between liberals and conservatives. It's CORPORATISTS in both parties versus the rest of us, the 99 percent.
The big corporate lie that is told to both sides is that the Other Side is getting everything they want and are responsible for all the problems in government. We are separately propagandized in that way to keep us from realizing that the two parties are actually working together and exploiting all of us.
Corporate Republicans lie to their base and betray it just like corporate Democrats do. Just as corporate Democrats lie and pretend to value traditional Democratic policy goals like social safety nets and public education and protecting the environment, corporate Republicans lie to their base and pretend to value traditional conservative positions like small government and individual liberty.
Then the corporatists in BOTH parties get into office and support everything nobody but the one percent wants: a mammoth, predatory corporate government, a surveillance state, and destruction/corporatization of social safety nets, schools, and the environment.
The Tea Party was co-opted. Occupy took a lesson and refused to be co-opted. That's why we had the spectacle, under a Democratic administration, of brutal crackdowns and surveillance of protesters.
Nobody is happy with the government we have. Republicans are as angry and unrepresented as we are. NONE of us are being represented. And the corporate thieves control both parties.
DocMac
(1,628 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)deutsey
(20,166 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)Amonester
(11,541 posts)Could we get sensible, intelligent humans who will work for the good of this entire (dying) planet for once?
It's getting awfully late.
Volaris
(10,270 posts)I'll support you
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)The donkey is facing left.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)pscot
(21,024 posts)for verisimilitude.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)That's how it's become.
I swear to God that that's how it's become with the DU population to a less degree... It's certainly a point of view where you're looking through the donkey's ass to see what's left of him.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)G_j
(40,367 posts)we know they are going to do it.
We've seen this movie before.
leftstreet
(36,106 posts)The nonprofit variety
DURec
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)then why hasn't someone intervened here to stop our murderous health care system?
DissidentVoice
(813 posts)Don't you get it?
We CAN'T have that!!!!!
We'll end up just like Stalinist Russia if we guarantee health care for all!!!
You need to listen to Rush and watch Fox more!!!
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)OMG ...did I really say that?
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)Sid has already helped by arguing against me and others that were advocating a Canadian style approach rather than the Heritage Foundation plan that he felt was much better.
Well, not so much argued against us, but rather mocked and ridiculed us and the entire concept of single payer.
So you see, in his mind he has helped install a superior Health Insurance scam here, insurance being far superior to actual health care for us in his sagely ROFL wisdom.
I expect him to cross the border for his health care starting in 2014, finally a sane option for him to the oppressive "care" over insurance he is forced to endure at home. I imagine he is already comparing insurance plans and is eager to start sending premium checks, he will likely frame the receipt for his first deductible payment made trying to actually get care.
I almost envy his excitement at the thought of getting to come here and use a real insurance system after all those years of health care he was forced to endure at home.
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(48,999 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)o nvmd.
djean111
(14,255 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Then at least we'd know who has to be booted out in the next few election cycles.
Marr
(20,317 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)We are in desperate need of new guards.
Myrina
(12,296 posts)Sad to say that this is how we're ending up, but if you look at them 30-50 years ago, they were what we are becoming now.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Even if so, do you recommend we govern by poll or by the process laid out in the Constitution?
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)Madison and a few others realized we cannot be governed by the present mood of the people.
Both the left and the right insist on bringing up "the will of the people" or some such horseshit when it's really their own will they want in place.
RC
(25,592 posts)Instead of passing laws subverting Rights granted in said Constitution.
treestar
(82,383 posts)and the courts have set aside laws on the ground they were violations of rights under the Constitution.
RC
(25,592 posts)The 4th Amendment is all but gone. There are common excuses to override everything listed in it.
treestar
(82,383 posts)That is the worst hyperbole of the day.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)The spirit of that amendment is pretty clear that it is being violated. It is many today in power that are trying to use technicalities (like who "owns" online data) to get around that spirit of those constitutional rights. It needs updating, and unfortunately our corporatist one party system isn't going to touch doing that as long as they can use the status quo to serve themselves at the rest of our expense!
RC
(25,592 posts)ForgoTheConsequence
(4,868 posts)Please provide a constitutional defense of military action against a country that doesn't pose a threat to the United States.
The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat,
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Arguably Justice Marbury gave SCOTUS that power in Marbury vs. Madison...
Now, perhaps we should have judicial review be more aptly named as a process that the legislative bodies "review" what the Supreme Court is doing more often than what they do and regulate their activities, which arguably the constitution DOES give them the right to do.
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)approval of Congress. If we are going to govern by the process laid out in the Constitution then the War Powers Act must be respected since the Constitutions gives Congress the power to pass laws and the War Powers Act is a law legally passed by Congress.
tritsofme
(17,376 posts)totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)must be followed.
tritsofme
(17,376 posts)Presidents will always say are they acting "consistent" with the WPA as opposed to "pursuant to"
avebury
(10,952 posts)RevStPatrick
(2,208 posts)Abso-fucking-lutely nothing.
Because we are bunch of spineless pussies.
We'll bitch and moan about on the interwebz, and complain about what an "obscene joke" it is, but we won't do anything about it. I include myself.
Today is the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom.
And, as you pointed out, we've been backsliding for 30 of those years...
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)forestpath
(3,102 posts)mike_c
(36,281 posts)Very well said!
City Lights
(25,171 posts)Autumn
(45,058 posts)and it's crystal clear who they represent. And it sure as fuck isn't the people.
Response to woo me with science (Original post)
Dreamer Tatum This message was self-deleted by its author.
leftstreet
(36,106 posts)Did you mean to reply to another thread?
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)They don't listen to us or really read our emails and petitions. After they get our vote they go back to planning their future as a lobbyist for Monsanto, Exxon, Goldman Sachs, ect.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)but they care more about people who are unable to drink a cup of coffee unarmed than thinking folk
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)You don't vote based on people who send you postcards or call your office or sends you emails.
If I got elected, then I would make what I thought was the best decision for the country and for the people of my district. That's what being elected should mean - that they trust my judgement. If they decide in the next election that they no longer trust my judgement, if I cannot explain to them why I voted the way I did, then they are free to elect somebody else.
But in any election, a large number of people in a district are gonna vote for the other person.
They can keep not listening to "US" as long as US is too small a group to defeat them in the next election.
Paper Roses
(7,473 posts)We've all done the e-mail your congress person, -mail the president, protest, letters, what have you.
It seems the op[inion of the electorate does not matter. All the stupid decisions belong to Washington.
NO MORE WARS!
This old lady has had enough.
The Wizard
(12,542 posts)abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)Maybe there would be more people elected who actually represent the people and not just the interests of the powerful and well to do?
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)ctsnowman
(1,903 posts)CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)This country is at the point now where the Tea Party has infested government beyond reason, due to complacency and a worthless MSM that is in the pockets of the GOP.
If they're going to be voted out, it's past time to think that voting for some 3rd party candidate without a viable chance will do anything.
It needs to start with getting more D's in there period. Now is not the time to warn people that "voting in lockstep" is a dirty Republican sheeple thing to do, and it's not the time to whine that there isn't enough reason to go to the polls. That's a particularly entitled whine in the wake of remembering how people died for the right to vote.
demwing
(16,916 posts)might as well be in a third party.
How the hell are we going to get real change if we don't vote for real change?
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)It is also why we cannot fix this thing. It is inherently corrupt because it relies upon an untenable economic system which demands that it function under manufactured scarcity in order to create profits for the few at the top. This model of governance has gone as far as it can go. It was an improvement over what came before it -- the monarchs and tyrants and despots, but we have now outgrown this selfish system of oligarchy and of greed and avarice.
- And it is time to move on.....
K&R
Resource-based Economy
Emit
(11,213 posts)to the countless times as a kid that i gave up playing Monopoly. Hated that game! It drove me nuts!!
WillyT
(72,631 posts)N_E_1 for Tennis
(9,721 posts)We need to get the corporate influence outa all politics. Then we might be represented.
marsis
(301 posts)to the man behind the curtain.
The perception of a representative government is much more important than the real thing to the elite in Washington and their masters.
valerief
(53,235 posts)Now that I'm older, I'd say it hasn't changed, except that the balls and jumpropes weren't stolen when I was a kid.
ConcernedCanuk
(13,509 posts).
.
.
DEFENDING the USA from attacks is ok for the powers that be IMO,
but indiscriminate attacks on other sovereign countries?
Let the citizens decide.
CC
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"Our 'representative government' is an obscene joke at this point, both parties. WE DID NOT VOTE FOR THIS SHIT."
...are you going to do about it?
Post that wall of "blue links" again. I'm sure that will help.
Faryn Balyncd
(5,125 posts)One can:
(1.) Raise hell about the mockery of the constitution (specifically) and of representative democracy (in general)
or, on the other hand, one can:
(2.) Support undemocratic, bad policy by mocking those who raise hell.
Interestingly, only one of these options has the endorsement of the President we worked to elect:
"Your job is to hold my feet to the fire. . . So, you need to be out there everyday raising these issues, telling us when were doing the right or wrong thing. . . My role is to be President of the United States. . . "
http://www.stanforddaily.com/2011/12/01/a-foot-in-two-worlds/
The president does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.
Senator Barack Obama, 12-20-2007
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/specials/CandidateQA/ObamaQA/
"The reason that you have this principle is not to be soft on terrorism. It's because that's who we are. That's what we're protecting. . . Don't mock the Constitution. Don't make fun of it. Don't suggest that it's not American to abide by what the founding fathers set up. It's worked pretty well for over 200 years."
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/09/obama-to-palin-dont-mock-the-c.html
Blind support of bad policy is not the way to support our President.
Our President needs us to do our job.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023551994
Anyone plan on holding his/her Senators accountable?
Faryn Balyncd
(5,125 posts)Last edited Wed Aug 28, 2013, 10:51 PM - Edit history (1)
Thanks for the links.
The reasons for caution Warren expressed in the Globe article seem right on target to me.
It would appear, however, that whoever wrote the headline for the WBUR website is either bending over backwards to distort Sen. Markey's emphasis, or else they are just doing incompetent reporting by omitting to quote his actual statements which back up WBUR's pro-war spin:
Specifically,the WBUR headline states "Surgical Strike a Must to Punish Syria's Assad", and Barbara Howard begins the interview by summarizing Markey's position as "calling for surgical strikes".
Leaving aside the issues of whether or not a truly "surgical" strike is technically possible, and whether or not such action would result in achieving our goals without untended consequences (issues Markey's senior colleague has raised), the interview Markey gave actually had a totally DIFFERENT emphasis from what the WBUR headline writer and interviewer seem to want:
Specifically, Markey's position would be better summed up as stating that:
1. The use of chemical weapons is unacceptable & requires a response.
2. It is essential that we not become involved in a civil war, and that ground troups not be used.
3. That a "surgical" strike "could be used"
4. that there "has to be an end-game strategy" and there "has to be a clear understanding of what our goals are, that its limited in scope and duration..."
5. Sen. Markey clearly indicates acceptable action would involve an international coalition
Unlike the WBUR headline writer, an ethical journalist would have written a headline more along the lines of "Sen. Markey: Any military action MUST BE LIMITED", not distorting and amplifying his position with the misleading "Sen. Markey: Surgical Strike a Must to Punish Syria's Assad".
And a competent, ethical journalist might have included questions which (as done by the Boston Globe, in their appropriately titled "Mass. senators urge caution on Syria action" conveyed Sen. Markey's positions that:
1. anything the US does should just be limited to ensuring that chemical weapons are not used and said he has real reservations about imposing a no-fly zone over the troubled, civil war-torn country, and that
2.Congress should be consulted before any military action on Syria is taken.
But the NPR interviewer was too busy trying to convince Sen. Markey that perhaps nothing short of regime change would work, or that perhaps we should have taken military action long ago, and could not be bothered with such matters.
The descent of NPR, in its pursuit of corporate dollars, and in its endless, impossible quest to disprove the RW's false charges of "liberal bias" continues to be nauseating.
But the above report is beyond nauseating.
They have transformed & distorted Sen. Markey's clear calls for caution ------ clear calls that if a military action is undertaken it must be limited ------ into a soundbite that demands a strike.
And that is incompetent, misleading, biased, warmongering propaganda for which WBUR should be embarrassed.
Link Speed
(650 posts)I only vote locally, for people I know personally.
It is also the reason I have not paid one dime in Federal Income Tax since I came back from Vietnam.
This is not my government, it is a money conduit for the real power in this country.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
Response to woo me with science (Original post)
mother earth This message was self-deleted by its author.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)polichick
(37,152 posts)about the power of the mic, and we have privatized more and more since then. Now there's a huge profit motive in everything the government does. Private contractors thrive on wars. Prison investors thrive on prisoners. Retail corporations thrive on the backs of American serfs - all while the 1% moves more and more of its wealth overseas. Hurry, get it away from the big sinking ship that is America!
The sooner we all understand what's happening, the better.
WestSeattle2
(1,730 posts)Little Star
(17,055 posts)felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)making the president the commander and chief and the citizenry has to comply. Our police forces are increasingly made up of war veterans, trained in forcing compliance. (I've nothing against honest use of military, but I have clear objections to this.) war propaganda turns back on, and young people without jobs are enticed to join. Movies and television glorify and exaggerate a militarized world.
It is a LIE that we have no choice but to perpetuate war hell on Earth. There ARE other ways--COOPERATION, and forming PEACE ALLIANCES, learning to share resources--is that rocket science?? We never tried having a Department of Peace, because war has become so institutionalized--for so long--that peace looks ridiculous!
Orwell is spinning in his grave so fast he is being tapped as a power source at this point.
WHEN CRABS ROAR
(3,813 posts)Here's how you do it.
Make a large sign that states,
HONK
NO WAR
IN SYRIA
and stand at a busy corner in your town or city, if this was done right now all over the country, the message would be heard loud and clear.
It would be reported because the sound would be deafening.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)David__77
(23,372 posts)I will know then to vote against my congresswoman from now on.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)is a facade to hide those that are really running it.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)and the efforts to make it fool us are fading fast. Our "Reps" are now too busy pandering to the money outlets to even bother with maintaining the their costume.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)Every investor in Wall St paid the way in for them, just as every investor does today.
Want change? Be change. Want the same? Keep playing right into their hands. ALEC couldn't do it without them.
BillyRibs
(787 posts)Get answers at http://www.thirty-thousand.org
indepat
(20,899 posts)boatload all the while metaphorically giving we the people a middle finger with each and every obscenity.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
hay rick
(7,607 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Initech
(100,065 posts)Fuck you Reagan.
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)Alkene
(752 posts)jsr
(7,712 posts)roody
(10,849 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)They will hang it around his neck, call for congressional hearings and impeachment, bet you anything!
And with 90% of Americans against this BS, they just might pull it off!
Both sides over there hate our guts, its pure neocon insanity for us to pull the trigger in Syria!
If "the world" demands that the bombs and missiles start flyin, let "the world" FUCKING DO IT!
Step up, UN, Britain, Germany, France, Japan, China, etc!
Knock yourselves the fuck out!
free0352
(9 posts)...is behind this. Truth is most of the Democrat leadership is behind this too. So you're going to get it. Its going to happen. And if it goes well people will forget their outrage and if it goes poorly Republicans will hang it around the necks of Democrats and claim the administration lied to them. That's what all the Democrats who voted to invade Iraq did.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)WCGreen
(45,558 posts)Imperial Rome...
Response to woo me with science (Original post)
Lonr This message was self-deleted by its author.
Lonr
(103 posts)[link:|