WOW! How very interesting. No one is talking about the N.S.A ...

[Howler]

Or this administrations defense of it since Americas Looming war on Syria has been announced.
Hmmmmmm What was the term I'm looking for...??????? Oh Yeah "Wag the dog"

[Agnosticsherbet]

1. Actually, the French are...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11331672
A lot of people here are...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023427352
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3019276
http://election.democraticunderground.com/10023425444
There are more than 4000 recent results here at DU, so your premise is not well supported by the evidence.

[Howler]

2. No. I don't think so Agnosticsherbet.

The conversation is beginning to change to war. Just like it was intended too.

[Agnosticsherbet]

7. I left my tinfoil hat in my other pants.

Sorry...

It is on now.

[Howler]

11. Really How bout some reality Agnosticsherbet.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023550500

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023550294
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023549610
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3543234
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023550025
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3549299
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3543019
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023550481
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023548796
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3544819
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023546365
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3549012
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023550380
Now this is only half way down the first page on D.U. today! No I'm not mistaken about Anything involving " Wag The Dog"

[WestSeattle2]

61. Exactly.

[NightWatcher]

3. Lemme see, being pulled into another quagmire where there will be high casualties or....

the govt can read our emails and sees what we do online??? They've been doing it for years under our noses. I'm more concerned about another costly war (blood and capital). I'll happily forward all my emails to the NSA. They'd be bored to tears...unless they follow baseball.

[obxhead]

63. This is why the war drums beat on.

Do something even worse to distract from the original transgression.

Another play picked out of the playbook from the last admin.

[BlueStreak]

79. You don't see the connection between the two?

[Cali_Democrat]

4. The only people that really talked about the NSA were hard core political junkies

most Americans consider the economy/jobs to be the top issue, not the NSA.

It's a bubble issue for folks living inside the bubble.

[Autumn]

8. Not in my world. People ARE talking about it.

Even kids that are 16 and 17 are discussing it. And they have a damn good grasp at what is going on.

[winter is coming]

25. +1. When you hear the old people at church making sardonic jokes about it,

yeah, it's not just an inside-the-Beltway issue.

[Autumn]

26. They can pretend all they want that this is a non issue.

They are wrong.

[Cali_Democrat]

66. I look at the numbers

And the numbers tell me it's not a top issue for Americans.

[Autumn]

67. Numbers from a poll?

[Cali_Democrat]

68. Correct. n/t

[Autumn]

73. Oh well, if it's poll numbers

Okay

[Drunken Irishman]

83. As opposed to just taking your word for it?

[Autumn]

92. I didn't offer a poll. And I didn't say

the only people that really talked about the NSA were hard core political junkies and I didn't say the numbers tell me it's not a top issue for Americans. And I sure as hell didn't ask you to take my word for anything. Do what you want. I said in my world it's an issue people are talking about.

[KittyWampus]

37. My world is in a very liberal section of a liberal state… my job involves a huge

cross section of people. No one is torqued about it as an issue.

And when it comes up in conversation it's not in terms of OMG DO SOMETHING or OBAMA IS BUSH!

[Autumn]

42. If it comes up in conversation it means people are talking about it.

I've never heard any one in my circle say "OMG DO SOMETHING or OBAMA IS BUSH!" But they certainly do think it's wrong and they don't like it.

[JoePhilly]

110. My experience is similar ... wide range of folks ...

the only mention of the NSA is to make jokes.

Shusssh ... the NSA will hear you!!

That's about it.

[Supersedeas]

23. pretty much

[bowens43]

113. bullshit

[brooklynite]

5. Why be so subtle?

Just come out and say "The President is lying to the American People to get us into military activity to hide discussion of the NSA issue".

If that's what you believe...

[SidDithers]

6. They never say what they really believe...

Their motto is "Posting privileges before principles".

Sid

[Howler]

9. Yep!

I really didn't think I was being Subtle at all brooklynite.

[Orrex]

15. It's deeper than you realize

The NSA flap was intended to distract from the USPS mail-photography program,
which was intended to distract from Benghazi,
which was designed to distract from IRS-gate,
which was meant to distract from the sequester,
which ultimately, and after multiple iterations, was crafted to distract from the fact that the "President" was born in Kenya.

Try to keep up, would you?

[Howler]

18. LOL!

I didn't say any such thing Orrex.
I have said that this war is to change the American peoples focus off of the N.S. A. Scandal .

[FSogol]

19. ^^^^^^^Thread win!^^^^^^^^^^^

[FiveGoodMen]

57. "We're an empire now,

and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality-based_community

[Howler]

91. If feels more like

we are a civilization in decline and a species on the brink to me FiveGoodMen.

[FiveGoodMen]

111. Agreed

But that quote (possibly attributed to Karl Rove) pretty much lays out the strategy of telling one lie after another, so fast that the fact-checkers can't keep up.

It was a Bush admin tactic and it still seems to be in effect.

[Howler]

114. Yep!

I think its just the tip of the Iceberg this "War"

[woo me with science]

39. What was subtle about it?

Nothing subtle about your post, either. Trying to make it all about Obama the person instead of the larger, corrupt corporate infestation of all our government institutions now, as well as the MIC.

Yes, the corporate presence in our government is corrupt. No, your predictable little game of trying to get people to lambaste Obama personally so that you can try to alert on them is pathetic and stale. And, yes, if he follows through with this shit he deserves lambasting.

The propaganda has devolved to repeating the outrages, but in a sarcastic voice as though they could not possibly be true. Imagine that our government could be lying us into another war! Imagine that corporate interests could purchase government power! Just imagine it!

We don't have to imagine it. We have been observing the corruption of our government by corporate warmongers and profiteers first-hand for decades now.

You guys have nothing at this point. The propaganda has no credibility anymore.

[nadinbrzezinski]

88. It is not about your never at fault hero,

Who is above reproach, nor ods.

It is about Empire. I expect no better from any POTUS regardless of silly letter behind name. When it comes to NSA, and foreign policy...imperial policy, there is no difference. They are not independent actors.

[Howler]

95. GAWD I wish I had your way with words

NadinBrzezinski! Exactly!!!!!

[The Straight Story]

10. Plenty still are - but talk is cheap, we need people in congress to do things

and voters to remember come election time.

I read papers from all over the world and it still comes up.

PS - awesome site for all of the newspapers in the world, on a map:

http://newspapermap.com/

[Howler]

13. Great Link The Straight Story! I've got it Bookmarked. Thanks.

Still the conversation is now steering towards the war in Syria. It is undeniable.

[The Straight Story]

12. As a matter of fact I just posted this today

(on another board)

http://www.allgov.com/news/us-and-the-world/nsa-gone-wild-spying-on-un-european-union-and-80-embassies-worldwide-130828?news=850975


NSA Gone Wild: Spying on UN, European Union and 80 Embassies Worldwide
Back to News
Wednesday, August 28, 2013

Embarrassing revelations about the National Security Agency’s (NSA) spy operations continue to surface, with the latest accounts involving the United Nations, the European Union and embassies throughout the world.

Using documents provided by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden, the German newspaper Der Spiegel reported that the U.S. spy agency bugged the UN’s headquarters in New York City and listened in on conversations at the European Union (EU), the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and at least 80 embassies and consulates around the globe.

One internal document showed NSA officials were very pleased once they began eavesdropping on UN talks by tapping into the video conferencing system. “The data traffic gives us internal video teleconferences of the United Nations (yay!),” the document reads, according to Der Spiegel.

The same bugging also gave NSA snoops access to EU and IAEA offices.

Information provided by Snowden also showed that NSA seeks “information superiority” vis-à-vis the rest of the world. The agency has numerous clandestine operations in place to achieve its goal, some of which date back to the Cold War era.

The 1970s program “Blarney” involved the cooperation of at least one American telecommunications company, while going after “diplomatic establishment, counter-terrorism, foreign government and economic” targets.

[Howler]

16. I know! I read that .

I like your articles The Straight Story.

[avebury]

14. aka - Bait and Switch! nt

[Howler]

17. Yep! Exactly avebury.

It is a strategy that has been used time and time again.

[sufrommich]

20. So who did we pay to drop the chemical weapons on

the Syrians?

[Howler]

22. Seriously?

The better question might be would we have bothered to get into this war if it wasn't so damn convenient. You are aware that we didn't go into Iraq to free the people Right? It was for control of the oil You might want to ask yourself what possible interests America has in Syria.

[Myrina]

35. It's really close to Iran.

[Howler]

36. Could be Myrina. :) N/t

N/t

[JoePhilly]

44. THANKS OBAMA!!!!

[totodeinhere]

69. A serious charge like that should not be made lightly unless

you were being sarcastic. If you have any proof of this allegation please share it.

[sufrommich]

72. I was being sarcastic. nt

[totodeinhere]

90. Ok gotcha.

I wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic because sometimes you do read crazy conspiracy theories at DU and the poster is very serious about it.

[HappyMe]

21. Good grief!

So a possible new ME horror shouldn't be thought about or discussed. What's going on in the ME didn't start over night. Sorry, but I think that the possibility of loss of the lives of troops and civilians takes precedence over Greenwald/Snowden and the NSA. Whatever happens next here can't be good.

What else can possibly be said about the NSA? Everyone has expressed their viewpoint (and in some cases, complete with insults) over and over and over.

[Howler]

24. Excuse Me HappyMe.

I simply pointed out a very possible reason Our government is getting involved in this war .
I was not criticizing you or any other concerned citizen. Talk about what you will. I just try and stay aware of wtf our government is up too. Don't take it personally.

[HappyMe]

30. I don't think that Syria

has anything to do with the NSA. Chemical weapons were used against people - people that have nothing to do with the NSA. I doubt that the NSA has anything to do with whether or not we will respond to what has happened in Syria. The tangled mess that is the ME is far too complicated for people to start simplifying it with "because NSA!!1".

[Howler]

41. If you preferr to compartmentalize our goverments actions into unconnected actions and reactions

that's fine.
I am just not that naïve.One thing the N.S.A. , Syria, And her people are about to have in common is OUR government!!!

[HappyMe]

43. Well, I'm not naive enough to think that

everything that goes on is related to the NSA.

[Howler]

50. Ummmm But the N.S.A is part of our goverment.

And our government would stop at NOTHING to stop the flow of information and transparency of its actions.

[HappyMe]

59. The NSA has jack shit to do with

what happened in Syria. Unless you believe that the NSA dumped those chemical bombs on Syrians.

Sorry, but I cannot buy in to your goofy premise that an impending war is a shiny distraction. Post all you want about the NSA, but don't expect people to stfu about a war.

[Howler]

62. HappyMe

I cannot buy into your totally disjointed premises either.
BTW I never advocated for not discussing the upcoming Syrian war! You all by yourself have read that into my text I never typed that.

[arcane1]

27. Not only that, but Obama was also the choreographer for Miley Cyrus!

It all makes sense now...

[Howler]

28. LOL!

Not very arcane of you.

[JoePhilly]

47. I heard he watched it live and did nothing to stop it!!!

[JaneyVee]

29. 3 million OPs weren't enough for ya?

[Howler]

33. When I consider That not all the information

has been released ...... No. We haven't even got to the big stuff yet. But that really isn't my point JaneyVee.
My point is How convenient for this administration to have a Cough! Cough! Supposedly humanitarian war to start right at this instant when they are trying to stop the flow of information of the N.S.A. 's abuse of power. Just sayin.

[99th_Monkey]

31. Yep. It's actually a "two-fer" for Surveillance & Security State

Not only is our new war a MAJOR distraction from NSA's illegal spying, <--one

it's also the case that the Guv-mint can more easily ratchet-up the fear factor
i.e. "We're At WAR!!" ... to shut people up. <--two

[Howler]

34. Bingo 99th Monkee!!!!!

Now that is VERY interesting!!!!!!

[99th_Monkey]

40. I just posted this Norm Solomon OP

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023550888

[Howler]

45. Great post 99th Monkey!

Glad to see that not EVERYONE is drinking the Kool-Aid.

[demwing]

60. Sadly, true

Strengthening our national security is a convenient excuse for weakening our civil liberties. Even Ben Franklin knew that. Nothing new, no tinfoil hats required.

[woo me with science]

80. I think you just nailed it.

[MineralMan]

32. More than one thing can happen at a time, you know.

Not everything has a simple explanation, and this is one of those things.

Global stuff is never simple. People are often simple.

Think. Don't be simple.

[KittyWampus]

38. Reptiles see only what is before them. In black and white. When we don't engage our full brain

we end up in extreme, kneejerk opinions.

BTW, I predicted the accusations of Wag the Dog days ago. It was inevitable.

[Maedhros]

65. I agree: military action against Syria is not intended as a distraction.

It's pure geopolitics. Obama wants leverage in selecting the next dictator in Damascus, so he needs to throw our hat in the ring.

[woo me with science]

85. The corporate PNAC moves onward,

but the distraction from NSA is an awfully convenient added bonus just now.

[Maedhros]

101. I'm certain the White House appreciates the change of focus.

It lets the Administrations supporters puff up their chests, pump their fists and share in the excitement of projecting our military might.

[Liberal Veteran]

46. Everything was so peaceful and utopian in Syria before? -nt

[Howler]

48. LOL!

And yet we stayed out of it All the murder and mayham. Till Now! Hmmmmmmm Ya think we are going to "Free" the Syrian people now?

[Liberal Veteran]

51. I rather think the situation is not as black and white as you seem to believe.

1. The "wag the dog" thing is nonsense.

2. If we do nothing at all, how much murder and mayhem do you think we should ignore?

[Howler]

56. I don't think its has black or white Has you think Liberal Veteran.

I think Most of the murder and mayhem is caused by OUR military and ONLY when certain interests of ours are involved.
I don't for a moment believe this is a humanitarian action The American War Machine just doesn't do that.
Wag the Dog is really not nonsense but to think that this is or will be a just war is.

[Lifelong Dem]

49. Wrong

Miley Cyrus was the distraction from NSA.

[BeyondGeography]

52. Delusional...outside of a few message boards nobody gives two shits

about this precious issue.

[Howler]

53. The war?

Our Authoritarian government?
Or people about to really start being killed? In our name of course. Under the guise of Humanitarian reason.

[BeyondGeography]

54. See post #4

[Howler]

58. O! Sorry.

I evidently have the Poster of Post 4 on ignore! Snort! Can't see a darn thing. LOL!

[totodeinhere]

70. If that is true, which I doubt, then it's a very sad commentary on

what this country has become.

[nadinbrzezinski]

107. You wish

It is, continues to be, a hot issue in my town.

[railsback]

55. So, you're saying the DU is easily distracted by shiny objects

That's what I've been saying. Its just the nature of faux outrage.

[revmclaren]

71. NSA, Manning (aka Chelsea), Snowden, Greanwald...

all are now put on the back burner by the 'Flavor of the month' outrage Syria!

I would respect the outrages here on DU a bit more if the ones being outraged could
keep focusing their anger and contempt on one or even two issues at a time.

To be fair, there are a few who can politically walk and chew gum at the same time and thus follow and post more than one important issue at a time, but these individuals are very rare on DU.

Syria hasn't even been bombed yet by the evil US empire at the time of this post and yet all the focus has gone out of past 'world changing' issues and now focuses on the what could Be's of Syria. Whats next o' fickle DUiers? Thousands of us who rarely post but do read the posts here are really wondering....




(edited for a spelling error only)

[CRH]

64. Wag the dog indeed, ...

Nothing like a little war to distract from more important discourse. Works every time.

[Agschmid]

74. I don't see it, sorry.

[Howler]

75. Give it time and you will Agschmid.

Just keep watching the news headlines and D.U.s front page . It will become quite obvious.

[Agschmid]

98. Ill keep watch, no guarantees.

[Howler]

102. No Problem Agschmid.

Diversity is the spice of life.

[blackspade]

76. Yep, Syria has been an awesome diversion away from

serious domestic problems.

It is so thinly veiled at this point though.

[Howler]

78. The Masks

And the propaganda are slipping.

[blackspade]

115. Indeed.

Unlike some I'm not inclined to lay this entirely at Obama's feet.
I think the presidency is just as captured by special interests as Congress and the Judiciary.
The 1% want war for their own enrichment and it is a great distraction for the general population away from the terrible problems we have with poverty, unemployment, the NSA, infrastructure, the destruction of our schools by privatization, etc.

I'm not an Obama fan. I voted for him twice. Once because I thought he was a vehicle of change and once because I had no alternative. He has been an intense disappointment, but I have begun to realize that the 1% learned from their debacle with Carter; subvert the government in its entirety or win folks to the 'cause' with bribes.

We have to get money out of politics otherwise we will be doomed to a cycle of economic depressions and war.

[Howler]

117. Spot On Blackspade!!

What Gets me Is the folks trying to separate the N.S.A from going to war in Syria when its on intell provided by the N.S.A.!!!!! Shesssh!!!! It also stops the conversation dead in its tracks about just how invasive the N.S.A is in day to day American life. Has the 99th Monkey said its a twofer man!!!

[Rex]

77. That happens here like clockwork. New topic, old topic goes

away. Been happening here since day ONE.

[Howler]

82. The spying and whistle blower stories

have been here for months with daily updates.... Now it will be War 24/7..However I know and count on a few of D.U.'s brilliant posters to not let the spy scandal die down and get buried so easily. Though the War headlines will be heartbreaking and the war machines propaganda will be in full bloom.

[Rex]

86. I don't think this time out it was intentional on the part of the WH.

Yes, there are great DUers that will keep posting about the NSA, despite the move to a more current topic. I just don't think this is "wag the dog" to hide the NSA spy scandal.

[Howler]

89. Well

I respectfully disagree Rex!. But Hey! That's what makes D.U. such an interesting place for news its not an echo chamber like the media has become.

[Rex]

94. Very true! And we can talk to each other like rational adults

and agree to disagree! I am VERY happy that this place is not an echo chamber...some here would LOVE it to be so! I am going with 'new news knocked off recent news to the WH's advantage'.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

81. Replacing a PR disaster with another PR war.

Which is also likely to end up a PR disaster.

[Howler]

87. No Shit Tierra-y-Libertad!

LOL! I don't know weather to laugh or cry! This is BAD! Really REALLY Bad! Talk about how not to win friends and influence people around the world. Sigh.




Oh Shit! I'm so sorry for the misspelling!!!! Tierra!
Edited to correct spelling!!!

[Howler]

99. HOLY!!!!! @#$%!!!

Thank you Rex!!!! Bloody Hell!

[Rex]

100. NP man!

We might disagree...but I got your back!

[Howler]

104. :)

I Got yours too!

[Rex]

105. Thanks!

[Drunken Irishman]

84. Bingo! False flag! Syria isn't even a real country.

It's made up!

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. Come election time I am not voting for my first term

Democratic congressman. His stands on the NSA are the reason. I will not vote for a man n favor f the policies who went to far as to vote against the Amash amendment. Hey, he went so far as to vote against the ACA as well.

So come 2014 I will not vote for him in the primary, or the general. It is that simple.

[Howler]

97. I agree.

Its what they do and have done not the letter beside their name or what they are spewing anymore!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

103. This guy even sent a panphlet

See, I do not vote with the party most of the time!

He knows he is in trouble.

[Howler]

106. I wish they were ALL in trouble!!! n/t

n/t

[LanternWaste]

108. No one, huh?

No one, huh?

Another day, another Post hoc ergo prompter hoc.

[Howler]

112. Sorry LanternWaste But I do see

see a correlation not a coincidence between the two.

[Scurrilous]

109. How clever of the administration to wait three whole months to do this!

[freshwest]

120. It's why Obama adopted Sunny the dog. She's evil. Read that on DU. Must be true.

And wait! Sunny? Or Sunni! The plot thickens. Throw that man, er, dog a bone. We should have seen this coming. DU was too busy talking about Libertarian heroes. They got us where they want us now. Damn.

[Douglas Carpenter]

116. weren't we supposed to be bombing North Korea by now? What ever happened to that anyway?

[KamaAina]

118. Actually, somebody is

here at the mighty DU.

And it turns out they're ass-deep in this Syria thing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3552042

Remember, Syria's chief ally is Russia. Could this explain why Snowden ended up there?

[Howler]

119. I saw that KamaAina!

Great post!!!! Thanks for the heads up!