What Are We Supposed to Do When They Lie?

[LuvNewcastle]

This post came from my response to a post in another thread. I think this question touches the very heart of the democratic system we cherish in this country.

How can we have a democratic system run by liars? People elect candidates to office for a variety of reasons. Some people might like how a person looks or how he speaks. The sex of the candidate might be of prime importance to some. Others might think his race is important. But the primary reason most of us choose a particular candidate is his position on the issues of the day. In fact, we are expected by society to choose our candidates based on issues.

Trust is essential, therefore, if we're going to make informed choices. We expect a candidate to keep his word when he gets into office. If he says he will end a war, we expect him to end it. If he says he'll only attack another country without the approval of Congress if we are in danger of being attacked, we expect him to keep his word.

If a man doesn't keep his word when elected, it is a danger to our system. People begin to wonder why we have elections in the first place. If the man I voted for does the opposite of what he said he'll do, then I might as well have voted for the other guy, you see. People will say that there's no point in voting, because they don't do what they say they'll do. It's hard to argue with that logic. When the people think that voting is pointless and all our officials are liars, how can we have democracy? Also, if we expect our leaders to lie to us, they most certainly will do just that.

This post applies to President Obama and our current situation with Syria, but it is certainly not just about Obama. He is far from the first person sitting in office who has told a lie. I'm not calling for impeachment; impeachment isn't for telling lies. I would like to see people discuss possible remedies to our problem with politicians who lie.

[Warpy]

1. We got the constitution with its separation of powers and checks and balances

and Bill of Rights because the founders knew that governments are made up of venal men who lie to preserve their spots on the dungheap and will step on everybody they can in order to climb higher. They wanted to make it impossible to own the whole dungheap since there were two other equal equal powers that could check any one man's power.

Unfortunately, our system has been completely corrupted by dirty money. The founders foresaw candidates being supported by small donations by people who believed in them. They never foresaw the massive amounts of money that corporations and billionaires would pour into elections and the collusion among the powers that one party rule would bring.

Right now, just knowing those bastards are all lying their rotten asses off will have to do. Alerting the rest of the public one person at a time will take time.

As for Obama, I'm giving the man the benefit of the doubt. He's been inside the bubble that all presidents are encased in for four and a half years. He only knows what he's being told and I'm not sure he realizes the extent of the lying. LBJ got it by this time and refused to run again because of it. Obama's a very smart man and I sincerely hope he gets it, too.

[LuvNewcastle]

3. On the point about Obama, I hope so too.

It just galls me that these people can lie and lie and suffer no ill consequences. The lying doesn't hurt them, but it is toxic to our system. I know that a lot of people in government don't want most people voting anyway, but I think that the less people vote in this system, the less legitimacy our government has. I want people to participate not only because it's more likely that their needs will be met, but it will also strengthen our system, which is on life-support now, in my opinion.

The problem we have with lying officials builds distrust and reduces participation by a huge factor. In other words, we can't have a healthy system when our 'leaders' lie with impunity and citizens shrug their shoulders and take it for granted.

[shraby]

2. You could have mentioned the ones who run for a certain party then right after the election

change their party affiliation. That's big time lying.
Why not list a few of the ones who tell whoppers constantly?
Louis Gohmert
Rand Paul
Gov. Walker from Wisconsin
fill in the rest...there are a bunch.

[LuvNewcastle]

4. If I mentioned all the liars, this thread would've been the longest

in DU history. The only reason I mentioned Obama is because another discussion about him and Syria put me on this topic to begin with. He's been caught telling some, but I don't want to get into all of that. This is intended to be a more general conversation about the liars in our government and possible ways that we could stop it. Some of these politicians, including Obama, would probably do just fine in their elected offices if they would just keep the promises they made in their campaigns. Unfortunately, we have no mechanism in place to force them to do that.

[shraby]

5. Campaign promises sometimes are very hard to keep, one has to consider the makeup of the senate

and house.
On the other hand, the lies that have been pelting us incessantly are a whole nuther story.
They deserve a calling out.

[LuvNewcastle]

8. I guess I wasn't clear enough when I talked about "campaign promises."

If a man runs for President and says he'll give all Americans a living wage and we have a Republican Congress, I don't expect him to keep that promise. But if he says he won't have people arrested for breaking a particular federal law and he does it, that is what I call a lie.

I see different shades of lies, too. For instance, if a candidate says he won't serve fish in the White House and then he does it, I'm not going to raise hell over it. But lying about life and death issues like waging wars is a biggie. When I take someone's word and give them my vote and he breaks that trust, I feel like a fool because I fell for it, and I don't like that feeling.

These jobs we elect people to serve in are serious business. They hold the public trust in their hands. When they violate that trust, we should have a way to deal with them. A lot of these jobs have been reduced to popularity contests because so many of the people elected to them have been so disrespectful to what they represent. It's time to put a stop to that shit. These people have control over our lives and other people's lives all across the world.

[woo me with science]

6. I think part of the remedy is truthfulness, a la Snowden and others.

In other words, stopping this nonsense of pretending that we are discussing mere policy disagreements, or that anything about what has happened to this government is "moderate" or "centrist." Exposing the propaganda for the malignant bullshit it is.

We are facing a corporate coup of our representative government. We are not fighting "conservatism." We are fighting corporate authoritarianism. Our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, is under assault. Journalism is being criminalized. Whistleblowers of government crimes are being targeted. Humans are increasingly being imprisoned for profit. The United States of America is now a corporate surveillance state. The obscenely rich are getting richer, and more and more of us are impoverished under predatory corporate policies. We are headed, against the desires of virtually the entire population, into another blood-soaked war for profit that will lead to even greater corporate enslavement.

A former President of the United States of America just stated clearly,

"America no longer has a functioning democracy."

A former PRESIDENT said that. That should wake everyone the hell up.

It is not just lies from politicians we are dealing with. We are dealing with a depth of corruption that is destroying this nation. We are dealing with authoritarians who have implemented a surveillance state, crushed opposition, and put into place a propaganda machine to pretend that that old two-party system is just humming along like always. But both parties are full of purchased pod people now, and the entire system has been restructured to keep them there. Both parties are pursuing predatory corporate authoritarianism.

We are at a grave place in US history. Because of Edward Snowden, we may have a chance at wresting our country back from the corporate authoritarians who have seized it, before they impoverish us all. But if we let them change the subject and embroil us in a war with Syria, we can pretty much kiss a democratic (except in illusion) nation goodbye.

[LuvNewcastle]

13. He's given me a little bit of hope that a lot of Americans can be

educated about the state of our government and the people who are running it. They're doing everything they can to discourage it, but I hope we see some more people come forward with information. I don't really expect it, though. It's hard to fault someone for not allowing their lives to be ruined, especially if they have a family depending on them.

[geek tragedy]

7. "How can we have a democratic system run by liars?"

Getting voters to reward honesty instead of pandering.

[LuvNewcastle]

10. It's often hard to tell the difference.

When a candidate says he will or won't do something, is he telling me the truth or is he just telling me what I want to hear? Maybe they're always pandering, since nobody does anything when they don't keep their word. Are we simply electing the best bullshitters to office, because if we are, these people who don't vote are the smart ones.

[polichick]

11. So who was honest in our last presidential primary...

Obama? Clinton? Who?


On edit: Oh I know! John Edwards was honest.

[polichick]

9. As long as it takes a lot of money to run, we'll have...

liars, manipulators and other greedy bastards in the halls of government.

We need a complete overhaul of our election laws, from campaign financing to voters' rights, honest and fair polling place practices, an end of the Electoral College, more term limits and a ban on those who serve from becoming lobbyists, etc.

Our whole system is a corrupt farce that encourages the wrong kind of person to run.

[LuvNewcastle]

12. I agree with all of that.