Gun Bill in Missouri Would Test Limits in Nullifying U.S. Law

[Robb]

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — Unless a handful of wavering Democrats change their minds, the Republican-controlled Missouri legislature is expected to enact a statute next month nullifying all federal gun laws in the state and making it a crime for federal agents to enforce them here. A Missourian arrested under federal firearm statutes would even be able to sue the arresting officer.

The law amounts to the most far-reaching states’ rights endeavor in the country, the far edge of a growing movement known as “nullification” in which a state defies federal power.

The Missouri Republican Party thinks linking guns to nullification works well, said Matt Wills, the party’s director of communications, thanks in part to the push by President Obama for tougher gun laws. “It’s probably one of the best states’ rights issues that the country’s got going right now,” he said.

The measure, which would seem certain to face a court challenge, was vetoed last month by Gov. Jay Nixon, a Democrat. But when the legislature gathers again on Sept. 11, it will seek to override his veto. Nearly every Republican and a dozen Democrats appear likely to vote for the override....

Read More: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/29/us/missouri-gun-measure-pushes-nullification-boundary.html

[geckosfeet]

1. sweet

[Redneck_Dem]

8. Very

[bowens43]

2. gun nuts are such dumb asses. federal law trumps state law.

[dballance]

9. Ummm...actually.. YES. Google "Supremacy Clause"

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Supremacy+Clause

http://www.nolo.com/dictionary/supremacy-clause-term.html

Supremacy Clause
Provision under Article IV, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution, providing that federal law is superior to and overrides state law when they conflict.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

12. A lot of the Confederate states complained that Free states nullified the Fugitive Slave Act

Decisions, decisions.

[pintobean]

5. Other than that pesky Bill Of Rights.

In this case, the 2nd and 10th Amendments. I guess we'll see what the courts say, if it passes.

[Robb]

6. You think the Bill of Rights is a state law?

[pintobean]

7. Seriously? That's what you took from that comment?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

11. He tries so very, very hard. n/t

[jeff47]

10. So...never heard of the supremacy clause?

Or the Civil War?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

13. The Civil War didn't abrogate the Constitution, it re-affirmed it.

[jeff47]

17. It also ended the last bastion of nullification.

and the 10th-amendment based bullshit behind it. Until gun nuts and anti-gay bigots decided to try that tactic again.

And if it re-affirmed the Constitution, then it re-affirmed the supremacy clause.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

18. What about the Free states that nullified the Fugitive Slave Act?

Or states that legalize medical and/or recreational marijuana use?

Or states that recognize gay rights in spite of DOMA?

[kcr]

19. Right, what about it?

Your argument might work if the government had at any time in the past 100 years even seriously tried to bring back slavery. Or if every time everyone tried to change a law, they pounded their fists, threw a hissy fit and tried to nullify! Nullify!!!! But it usually doesn't work that way. Not everyone who wants change wants to blow up the government to get it.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

22. The feds have no business telling states how to regulate

MMJ grown, distributed and consumed exclusively within a state.

[kcr]

25. Says you n/t

[kcr]

26. And don't think I don't see what you're doing here.

Your claim that if someone is for legalizing drugs and getting rid of prohibition, they have to support these kooky anti-government whackos in Missouri doesn't fly. Sorry.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

27. So laws only apply when you want them to.

The law that is higher than the feds says the feds cannot just arbitrarily dictate to the states. We have states for a reason -- so we don't have a single law over the entire nation.

If that means Colorado gets to set its laws for what solely effects its state then so be it. If that means Missouri can as well then so be it. You're opposition to the constitution goes no further than your emotional response to people you disagree with in Missouri.

[kcr]

28. Again. Right wing states rights talking point BS doesn't fly.

Otherwise, why not just let states be their own little countries with their own heads of state? Then the red states can bring back Jim Crow laws. But they can't, and they won't.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

29. No they can't.

As the Constitution is the highest law a state cannot bring back Jim Crowe because it violates the constitutional protects of equality under the law. In fact the 13th and 14th Amendments were written to pre-empt the very situation you rightfully caution against.

But a state reaffirming the constitutional rights of its citizens in the 2A is NOT a return to Jim Crowe. That's an unfounded scare tactic.

[kcr]

30. Oh is that all? They're just reaffirming their constitutional rights?

So, with that logic, I guess burning down my house would be the best way to get rid of my bug problem!

And of course, without that pesky Federal government, red states will continue to abide by the consitution and protect everyone's rights. Of course! It's not like they're fervently trying to trample over a certain group's voter rights or anything...

[Nuclear Unicorn]

31. What's wrong with reaffirming constitutional rights?

You claim they're being selective but so are you. If you're not beholden to respect all rights then neither are they.

[kcr]

32. I'm claiming they're being selective?

Um, no. Not sure what you mean by that. Anyone has the right to reaffirm their constitutional rights, but that's irrelevant. Look, quite simply, you are flat out wrong that states have the right to declare a federal law unconstitutional. This has been rejected repeatedly by the courts. It is not factual.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

33. I'm claiming if the feds create a law or policy that abrogates the Constitution

then the states are free to disregard that law. If the feds tried to pass Jim Crowe then the states that reaffirm the 13th and 14th Amendment protections of their citizens would hold both a superior legal and moral position.

[kcr]

34. And your claim is wrong.

It is settled law.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

37. So you support the Heller and McDonald decisions then

Seeing as they are now settled law and Missouri is taking steps to enshrine that law within its own laws.

[kcr]

39. What laws I do and don't support are irrelevant.

What matters is the federal government's decisions on what is and isn't constitutional. That is what the Supreme Court upheld. You know what, I don't support criminalizing pot. I still don't want states like Tennessee deciding what is and isn't constitutional. I lived there until recently. No, thank you. And whether or not I think it's a good idea, it's still a fact. States can't do what you claim. You're wrong.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

42. What's constitutional is the individual right to keep and bear arms.

Any state federal law/policy contrary to that is unconstitutional, ergo laws reaffirming that fact are constitutional.

[kcr]

43. Tell that to the Supreme Court then.

[geek tragedy]

44. as a matter of law you are simply incorrect and mistaken.

The ONLY recourse to challenging federal statutes is via federal courts. State courts and legislatures lack the authority to bind the federal government or interfere with its operation and laws.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

45. Or they can ignore it to death. I like that option too.

It's not like the feds can run around policing everything.

[geek tragedy]

48. This law criminalizes cooperation with the federal government.

One step short of firing on Fort Sumter.

The law will get struck down in a nanosecond by the first federal judge who sees it. And that will be that.

[kcr]

46. And it's a good thing, too.

I really shudder to think what my kids' pubic education would have been like in Tennessee. Hell, that state would have just been unliveable. I can't even imagine. The laws they do manage to pass are just ridiculous. Don't say gay!

[jeff47]

20. So your plan is to provide examples that did not work?

The Fugitive Slave Act was still enforced in states with nullification laws.
The Feds are shutting down marijuana dispensaries.
States recognizing gay rights only provided state rights. It did not provide federal rights. DOMA did not apply to state rights.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

21. Actually, one of the reasons for secession was Free states

refused to enforce the FSA and the Feds didn't compel them to do so. If your political theory is as you say then the presidency would have been obligated to sanction against any Free state that refused abide by federal law.

I presume you would support such a thing on principle.

[jeff47]

23. The "state police" refused to help, but the FSA allowed the slave states to send police

and bounty hunters after the slaves. The free states were not allowed to forbid their entry, nor expel them, nor punish them for actions while pursuing fugitive slaves.

and the Feds didn't compel them to do so.

States are not compelled to enforce federal law and never have been. Frequently states pass laws similar to federal laws, but they are not required to do so. If the state does not have a law similar to federal law, the state police can not arrest someone for violating federal law - they can only arrest people for violating state law.

Colorado police will not arrest someone for marijuana possession. But the DEA will arrest people in Colorado.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

24. "the state police can not arrest someone for violating federal law"

Um. Yeah they can and they do and it sticks.

[Loudly]

35. It abrogated the 2A.

The sole purpose of the 2A was to appease skeptics of a federal government.

As a result of the Civil War, armed rebellion has been categorically rejected as illegitimate.

The 2A is therefore quite utterly moot and obsolete.

Its sole effect now is to deprive people of all their actual rights at the whim of a shooter.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

38. That's novel. Unfounded but novel.

In case you hadn't heard, the US was founded by means of armed rebellion.

[Loudly]

40. Go remind the Confederate States of America of that.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

41. So we should resubmit ourselves to the British monarchy?

[billh58]

4. Once again proving

that the NRA's political purchasing power is strong in backward states -- especially those controlled by right-wingers and DINOs. I predict that once they enact this Confederate flag-waving bullshit, the DOJ will shove it down their collective right-wing vote-rigging throats.

Asshats like this are making Gabby Giffords' and other gun control organizations' efforts at regulating lethal weapons in this country easier each time they make public spectacles of themselves like this.

[sarisataka]

14. Missouri is late

Alaska already has done this

Bill to Nullify Federal Gun Control Signed into Law in Alaska
JUNEAU, Ala - Today, Alaska Governor Sean Parnell signed HB69, the 2nd Amendment Preservation Act, into law.

The bill nullifies a large swath of unconstitutional federal power over the right to keep and bear arms. It begins with the premise that violations of the 2nd Amendment are not law at all. It reads, in part:

a statute, regulation, rule, or order that has the purpose, intent, or effect of confiscating any firearm, banning any firearm, limiting the size of a magazine for any firearm, imposing any limit on the ammunition that may be purchased for any firearm, or requiring the registration of any firearm or its ammunition infringes on an Alaskan’s right to bear arms in violation of the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States and, therefore, is not made in accordance with the Constitution of the United States, is not authorized by the Constitution of the United States, is not the supreme law of the land, and, consequently, is invalid in this state and shall be considered null and void and of no effect in this state

http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2013/06/bill-to-nullify-federal-gun-control-signed-into-law-in-alaska/#.Uh5y2RtgWYQ

Seems states want to nullify more than gun laws

Alaska Becomes Second State to Pass Nullification of Indefinite Detention
JUNEAU, Alaska – Federal kidnapping in Alaska just got a lot harder.

Last Friday, Alaska Gov. Sean Parnell signed a sweeping nullification bill providing broad protections against indefinite detention, violations of the Second Amendment and blocking implementation of a federal identification program in The Last Frontier.

HB69 prohibits “state and municipal agencies from using assets to implement or aid in the implementation of the requirements of certain federal statutes, regulations, rules, and orders that are applied to infringe on a person’s right to bear arms or right to due process or that implement or aid in the implementation of the federal REAL ID Act of 2005.”

“The people of Alaska got a three-for-one in this bill. This is the most sweeping nullification legislation ever signed into law. The Alaska legislature, along with Gov. Parnell, obviously take Madison’s assertion that states are ‘duty bound, to interpose for arresting the progress of the evil’ seriously.” The new law will make violations of the Second Amendment and DC-sanctioned kidnapping nearly impossible in Alaska, and it throws yet another roadblock in the path of an unconstitutional national ID program. The people of Alaska should be proud of the courage shown by their representatives,” Tenth Amendment Center national communications director Mike Maharrey said.

http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2013/06/alaska-becomes-second-state-to-nullify-indefinite-detention/#.Uh50GBtgWYR

[angstlessk]

15. Do it for the marijuana (sic) laws in states that have legalized use for whatever reason n/t

[The Straight Story]

36. Reminds me of states and pot laws

Funny how people view it in that case.

[sarisataka]

49. Interesting to see...

all of the opposition here http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023557652
now I don't know if those laws would allow lawsuits against LEOs but the basic premise is the same