US: Assad responsible even if didn't order gas attack

[FarCenter]

The United States said Wednesday it holds Syrian President Bashar al-Assad directly responsible for alleged chemical weapon attacks against his people, even though he may not have issued orders himself.

As intelligence units zero in on precisely who may have ordered the atrocity that saw up to 1,300 Syrian civilians killed in apparent poison gas attacks on the outskirts of the capital Damascus, the State Department insisted Assad himself was to blame.

"We ultimately of course hold President Assad responsible for the use of chemical weapons by his regime against his own people, regardless of where the command and control lies," State Department deputy spokeswoman Marie Harf told a press briefing.

"The commander in chief of any military is ultimately responsible for the decisions made under their leadership, even if... he's not the one that pushes the button, or says 'Go' on this," she told a press briefing.

Suspicion has swirled as to who in Assad's inner circle -- or, potentially, among mid-level commanders -- may have given the green light to unleash what several experts believe was a deadly nerve agent.

Asked whether she thought Assad himself ordered the attack, Harf said: "I don't know the answer to that."

http://www.france24.com/en/20130828-us-assad-responsible-even-didnt-order-gas-attack

Marie Harf and Joshua Lucas


Marie Elizabeth Harf and Joshua Paul Lucas were married Saturday at the Vienna Presbyterian Church in Vienna, Va. The Rev. Erin E. Bair, an Anglican priest and a friend of the couple, performed the ceremony.

Ms. Harf, 30, is keeping her name. She works in Chicago as the associate policy director for national security for President Obama’s re-election campaign. Before joining it in December, she was a spokeswoman for the Central Intelligence Agency. She graduated from Indiana University and received a master’s degree in foreign affairs from the University of Virginia.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/fashion/weddings/marie-harf-joshua-lucas-weddings.html

Incompetent neophyte.

[delrem]

1. Most likely: an al Qaeda fanatic organized the chemical weapon attack.

I base likelihood on who would benefit most, and who would benefit least.
Those who say that the al Qaeda "rebels" couldn't get their hands on such weapons, I say bullshit because Saudi Arabia can provide much more than that.

So this *pretext* is doubtful. Not certain, like the US administration says.

[KittyWampus]

2. You need more to just "get your hands on" those weapons. You need means of delivery & training.

And it takes some amount of care to transport and store them properly.

Edit- if pockets of Al Qaida rebels have chemical weapons it seems to me they'd be used as a last resort in suicide attempts as strongholds or bases being overrun.

[delrem]

3. I don't know wtf you talkin about, KittyWampus.

You think the despots of Saud can't buy trained personnel? You don't think that all those billions of *loot* can't buy buy from the best of professional soldiers (mercenaries)? Well, that's a first.

"pockets of al Qaeda rebels"? You're talking about al Qaeda, which holds *all* of the "rebel held" territory. And which imposes the very most restrictive, misogynist, so-called "fundamentalist" religious law on its "liberated territory".

Syria, a secular dictatorship, has been pushing al Qaeda back. al Qaeda is losing badly and in fact it looks like end game. To keep this going "Friends of Syria (tm)" have to pull a rabbit from a hat.

Well, guess what rabbit those "Friends" pulled.

[Vinnie From Indy]

4. +1000

eom

[KittyWampus]

6. Just because you want something to be true doesn't mean it is. Get off DU and do some reading

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/28/20227083-obama-on-syria-i-have-not-made-a-decision?lite

Back in 2002, research conducted by George Lopez, a professor of peace studies at the University of Notre Dame, cast doubt on the presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. In this situation, Lopez rejects the notion that it was the Syrian rebels who used chemical weapons.

snip
"This anarchic, killing stalemate" could motivate anyone, Winfield says, but such a scenario just doesn't make sense.

For one thing, the alleged chemical attack happened in the Ghouta region of Damascus. It is controlled by the rebels, and civilians in the area sympathize with the rebels.

snip
"If [the rebels] have overrun an arms dump which had some of the agent, if a defector brought a limited amount with him, then it would explain why some of the signs and symptoms showed less toxicity than we expected," Winfield said. "That is a lot of 'ifs,' though."

Lopez concurs: "Western intelligence has been standing on its head to monitor all intel about those groups hostile to the West and what they have in their weapons access and supply. The amount of gas agents seemingly used was way beyond what a clandestine group could mix and develop without detection. And it is unclear they would have the expertise to mix the agents.

"Is it possible that a rebel group overran a storage facility of the government and captured some shells that were ready to be activated and then did so?" Lopez says. "Yes, but it would have had to have been a very large seizure preceded by a big battle between Assad top teams and rebels. It could not have happened without inside/outside knowledge."

[KittyWampus]

5. actually, you are misinformed. Rebels aren't just al qaida. And while Assad is still on top he isn't

"winning".

And the amount of chemicals used last week was very large.

I have seen no credible sources claiming any rebels have large stores of chemical weapons.

[delrem]

7. No, I'm not misinformed, Kittywampus.

[Aerows]

27. Turkey

said that they found chemical weapons in several rebel bases.

[Junkdrawer]

28. These guys?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023559777

[joshcryer]

8. What benefit?

Syria can use the strikes as a pretext to end the rebel threat once and for all, killing indiscriminately, and razing entire towns.

[delrem]

9. That's just dumb.

[joshcryer]

10. Watch and see.

I know if my facilities were being attacked by an outside force I would use much greater force to end the civil war I was enduring, lest I lose ground.

[delrem]

11. No. You're going along with a patently absurd justification for future US war crimes.

You have no concern for the war crimes of your own nation, as witness the fact that you're silent on the fact that this administration absolved the previous administration for self-admitted war crimes. You only care about hiding behind a stinking turd of a pretext.

[KittyWampus]

12. you really aren't adding anything of substance to this discussion. At all. Not real information

or facts.

If you have any substantive links or comments, please share.

[delrem]

13. KittyWampus: you make it a duty to ignore fact.

[joshcryer]

14. You're completely false.

I'm pointing out the worst case, and most likely, scenario. Destroying chemical weapons saves no one but it only makes it worse. The US then gets blamed for it. Syria is happy. The US is happy because it sided with the AQ threat too early in the civil war and needs to change course.

The ensuing atrocities are going to be horrific.

I'm not talking about the US's pretext, I'm talking about Assad's pretext. He needs an attack to be able to clean house. He almost had this thing shored up but a slow protracted battle like Algiers will erode your forces over time and he's seen that this has become a guerrilla war that will be hard to finish without razing an entire city.

And the US will be blamed, of course, therefore the pretext.

[delrem]

15. You're letting your speculative impulses overrun your skills.

[joshcryer]

16. It will be tested shortly.

I like speculation. I admit when I'm wrong.

In this case I hope I am horribly wrong and that after the US strikes Syria doesn't ramp up and start razing cities.

[delrem]

17. It would be better if you spoke out against the US military plans.

Explaining why they are immoral.

[joshcryer]

18. I have done so repeatedly.

You were the one making the false claim that the Syrian government couldn't possibly have anything to gain. There are possibilities. Even if they didn't shoot it they still have a potential to gain here. If anything that's more reason to be against the US's looming strikes, because they could directly result in a massive massacre and the whole "protecting civilians" thing will be proven a sham.

I have made it clear that any US actions in Syria without the UN would be a war crime. If you have not seen those posts it's not my fault.

[delrem]

19. What you call a "possibility" is an occurrence that ignores probability.

It ignores the kinda obvious downside that the US committed itself to use "chemical weapons" aka "WMD" as a cassus beli for openly entering the war.
If you like to pretend that downside doesn't exist, even when the US is ramping up for strikes - well, go for it joshcryer, you're a very adventurous soul.

[joshcryer]

20. That's what the "red line" was.

There is no "upside" to this conflict, delrem.

[delrem]

23. Well, looks like the US is isolate on this.

Perhaps, *finally*, common sense will prevail.

[The Straight Story]

21. Actually makes sense. We blame parents if their kid gets one of their guns and shoots someone

In this case, he is the parent and he should have locked up his chemical weapons.

[MADem]

22. Assad's brother may have ordered the attack as "revenge" for an assassination attempt by opposition

forces.

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/28/20231217-assad-assassination-attempt-may-have-prompted-chemical-weapons-strike?lite

Assad assassination attempt may have prompted chemical weapons strike



According to accounts provided to NBC News by more than a dozen witnesses, medical personal, victims and rebel leaders, the attack on Aug. 21 did not initially trigger undue alarm among war-weary residents of Ghouta and other rebel-held suburbs and villages outside Damascus. Many barely noticed the first explosions, assuming it was just more shelling in the 2½-year-old war. There wasn’t any place for people to run and hide anyway. The villages and neighborhoods were surrounded by Syrian forces, blockaded like castles in a medieval war. Most people just rolled over and went back to sleep, waiting for the shelling to subside.
But this attack was different. At least 29 rockets were fired at Ghouta over a two-hour period beginning at 2:45 a.m., according to these accounts. It’s unknown how many of the rockets were armed with poison gas, or what was in the warheads.
Rebels say the rockets were fired from at least four locations, including the Mezzeh military airport and the Qassioun plateau on the edge of Damascus, where a network of military bases is located. The plateau was previously attacked by Israel, suspecting Hezbollah was moving weapons in the area.

Idris and other rebel commanders say the area where the chemical weapons were launched in Qassioun was under the control of the Syria’s 4th Armored Division, commanded by President Assad’s brother Maher al-Assad,. Other units involved, according to Idris, were the 155th and 127th brigades, and Syria’s Air Force intelligence service. Idris said the two main planners of the attacks were Gen. Taher Hamid Kandil and Gen. Grassan Abass, both of whom command artillery and surface to surface missiles. U.S. officials did not dispute the claims.
The accounts from witnesses and others in Ghouta indicated the timing of the early morning attack was ideal for causing maximum casualties.
The August sun hadn’t yet risen and stirred up wind that could blow the chemical weapons off target. Nor was there direct sunlight, which could break down Sarin gas if it was present.
Very quickly, people began to choke. Some convulsed. Children died the quickest, some still in their beds and cribs. A few survivors said they noticed a strange smell. .......

[disidoro01]

24. Awesome

Now President Obama will own up to and apologize for all the civilians killed in "his" drone strikes throughout the world. I've been waiting for the previous and current administration to take responsibility for this awful facet of our "war on terra" and now that he has called out Assad, he will step up to the plate.



I don't know how to do the sarcasm thing.

[Supersedeas]

25. what next....did Assad try to kill the President's daddy?

[HooptieWagon]

26. Therefore, Obama is responsible for rogue NSA and IRS agents.

Or is he immune from his own argument?

[ZombieHorde]

29. Exactly. nt

[indepat]

30. Assad must feel he's being picked on when no one is ever gonna hold Bush-Cheney responsible for

purported Iraqi war crimes.