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n2doc

(47,953 posts)
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 09:49 AM Aug 2013

Why a Medieval Peasant Got More Vacation Time Than You

Last edited Thu Aug 29, 2013, 12:26 PM - Edit history (1)

By Lynn Parramore

Life for the medieval peasant was certainly no picnic. His life was shadowed by fear of famine, disease and bursts of warfare. His diet and personal hygiene left much to be desired. But despite his reputation as a miserable wretch, you might envy him one thing: his vacations.

Plowing and harvesting were backbreaking toil, but the peasant enjoyed anywhere from eight weeks to half the year off. The Church, mindful of how to keep a population from rebelling, enforced frequent mandatory holidays. Weddings, wakes and births might mean a week off quaffing ale to celebrate, and when wandering jugglers or sporting events came to town, the peasant expected time off for entertainment. There were labor-free Sundays, and when the plowing and harvesting seasons were over, the peasant got time to rest, too. In fact, economist Juliet Shor found that during periods of particularly high wages, such as 14th-century England, peasants might put in no more than 150 days a year.

As for the modern American worker? After a year on the job, she gets an average of eight vacation days annually.

It wasn't supposed to turn out this way: John Maynard Keynes, one of the founders of modern economics, made a famous prediction that by 2030, advanced societies would be wealthy enough that leisure time, rather than work, would characterize national lifestyles. So far, that forecast is not looking good.

What happened? Some cite the victory of the modern eight-hour a day, 40-hour workweek over the punishing 70 or 80 hours a 19th century worker spent toiling as proof that we're moving in the right direction. But Americans have long since kissed the 40-hour workweek goodbye, and Shor's examination of work patterns reveals that the 19th century was an aberration in the history of human labor. When workers fought for the eight-hour workday, they weren't trying to get something radical and new, but rather to restore what their ancestors had enjoyed before industrial capitalists and the electric lightbulb came on the scene. Go back 200, 300 or 400 years and you find that most people did not work very long hours at all. In addition to relaxing during long holidays, the medieval peasant took his sweet time eating meals, and the day often included time for an afternoon snooze. "The tempo of life was slow, even leisurely; the pace of work relaxed," notes Shor. "Our ancestors may not have been rich, but they had an abundance of leisure."

more

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2013/08/29/why-a-medieval-peasant-got-more-vacation-time-than-you/

(edit to provide working link)

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Why a Medieval Peasant Got More Vacation Time Than You (Original Post) n2doc Aug 2013 OP
A week off to quaff ale seems pretty good right about now. FSogol Aug 2013 #1
Keep in mind life expectancy statistics include child mortality jeff47 Aug 2013 #4
+1 Javaman Aug 2013 #7
And those of the upper classes could expect to live as long as today. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #16
Did this book cover Italy in the 14th century? It is thought by some historians that CTyankee Aug 2013 #26
Yes, it does. Javaman Aug 2013 #27
Thanks! I'll try to get it from my library. It's funny, because if I had seen it in the stacks I CTyankee Aug 2013 #29
You will love this book! nt Javaman Aug 2013 #38
High child-bearing mortality too. PotatoChip Aug 2013 #8
While working on the family tree, PatSeg Aug 2013 #13
Your grandparents probably worked much harder than, and were subjected to stresses, Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #17
It does appear that a more urban lifestyle PatSeg Aug 2013 #23
We need social time, we're social animals. I believe this system kills more of us than any other Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #41
Interesting... Bay Boy Aug 2013 #31
As did mine. Many of my ancestors from the 1700's and 1800's lived into their 80's Nay Aug 2013 #32
At first I thought PatSeg Aug 2013 #39
Interesting. When my mother was a child in a large city in Canada in the 20's, there was Nay Aug 2013 #42
It is hard to imagine what it was like PatSeg Aug 2013 #45
I looked back at my grandmother and her siblings (nine children in all) PatSeg Aug 2013 #37
A note on medieval life expectancy: Lizzie Poppet Aug 2013 #6
Excellent post. woo me with science Aug 2013 #21
Computers, cell phones, video games, and flat screen TVs PatSeg Aug 2013 #40
Sure, they all... bobclark86 Aug 2013 #2
+1 Puzzledtraveller Aug 2013 #3
I wish more of us would question the status quo. knitter4democracy Aug 2013 #5
I agree Joe Shlabotnik Aug 2013 #36
you selfish people only think about yourselves, do you ever stop to think about the blight Snake Plissken Aug 2013 #9
Wrong link maxsolomon Aug 2013 #10
strange...corrected n2doc Aug 2013 #11
Same thing happened to me when I put it on FB maxsolomon Aug 2013 #34
Keynes didn't assume... Xolodno Aug 2013 #12
There are 2 leisure classes - one at each end of the economic spectrum grahamhgreen Aug 2013 #14
LOL, I bet that peasant would love to learn to type and sit in air conditioning all day snooper2 Aug 2013 #15
That sounds horrible. hunter Aug 2013 #47
Also, those guys in Supermax get SHIT-TONS more time off nt Dreamer Tatum Aug 2013 #18
the modern attitude of treating humans like they are cogs in a corporate machine Supersedeas Aug 2013 #19
the 40 hour week became the 40 hour paycheck for unlimited hours markiv Aug 2013 #20
Kick for quaffing ale and then a siesta. nt Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #22
ttt Blue_Tires Aug 2013 #24
production, not money, was the primary motive--and there were potlatches MisterP Aug 2013 #25
My math comes out differently: 52 * 2 = 104, plus 8 vacation days = 112. IdaBriggs Aug 2013 #28
A week off quaffing ale, with no annoying emails to check, phone calls to take, Nye Bevan Aug 2013 #30
My company just got rid of earned vacation time. Avalux Aug 2013 #33
Why do you think they're called "the idle rich" ? dickthegrouch Aug 2013 #35
Whose peasants/serfs are we talking about? Art_from_Ark Aug 2013 #43
A rather tiny time frame here. JNelson6563 Aug 2013 #44
But what about peasant women? theHandpuppet Aug 2013 #46
K&R woo me with science Aug 2013 #48
So THAT's why witch burnings and other executions were so well attended Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #49
And our educational expectations reflect that... HereSince1628 Aug 2013 #50

FSogol

(45,435 posts)
1. A week off to quaff ale seems pretty good right about now.
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 09:53 AM
Aug 2013


Of course my ancestors came out of coal mines, so I'm not sure how much leisure time they really had.
Also, wasn't life expectancy about 45, 400 years ago?

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
4. Keep in mind life expectancy statistics include child mortality
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 10:44 AM
Aug 2013

which was far higher, and the low ages pull the overall life expectancy down.

If a person reached adulthood, their life expectancy was about 5-10 years shorter than today. The vast majority of our life expectancy gains are due to reduced child mortality.

Javaman

(62,497 posts)
7. +1
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 11:47 AM
Aug 2013

Just finished a book on the black plague and the author talks about just what you stated.

the first hurdle was 5 years old, the next one was 21. If you reached 21 you were pretty much okay unless some sort of disease got you, but if you avoided them, you could live into your 60's on average.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
16. And those of the upper classes could expect to live as long as today.
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 01:08 PM
Aug 2013

Many of us don't do too well with numbers, particularly when those numbers are used in things like statistics. Averages have become interchangeable with absolutes in the average mind. We really need to completely redefine education and set entirely new standards.

CTyankee

(63,883 posts)
26. Did this book cover Italy in the 14th century? It is thought by some historians that
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 02:19 PM
Aug 2013

that plague might actually had some bearing on the burst of artistic output and genius in the early 15th century that we now refer to as the Early Italian Renaissance. I'd love to read more on that theory, having studied the art of that period pretty thoroughly. The city of Florence is incredible for the sheer number of masterpieces that seem to be everywhere...it's hard to turn a corner in Florence without encountering yet another fabulous sculpture, building or painting...

Javaman

(62,497 posts)
27. Yes, it does.
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 02:30 PM
Aug 2013

It's really an excellent book. I don't want to give too much away in case you choose to read it.

here it is:

The Great Mortality: An Intimate History of the Black Death, the Most Devastating Plague of All Time

http://www.amazon.com/The-Great-Mortality-Intimate-Devastating/dp/0060006935

CTyankee

(63,883 posts)
29. Thanks! I'll try to get it from my library. It's funny, because if I had seen it in the stacks I
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 03:10 PM
Aug 2013

would have borrowed it and read it!

I've seen all kinds of theories about the plague and the Renaissance. About he most convincing to me is the idea that since so much of Florence was wiped out by the plague, more wealth was spread around to the fewer number of survivors, the faith in the Church was diminished and humanism took root, and smaller populations with self-governing ideas vs. vasselage to a ducal lord gave rise to more individualism (the Florentines of that time strongly defended their Republic, as they harkened back to their classical roots in Roman antiquity).

PatSeg

(47,239 posts)
13. While working on the family tree,
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 12:43 PM
Aug 2013

I found that if people didn't die as children, during childbirth, from an accident, or during war, they lived well into their 70's or 80's, some even longer. No matter what branch I explore or how back I go, I just don't find people dying in what we consider middle age as rule.

Edit to add: I also noticed that it was during the 20th century, that lives started getting a bit shorter. My parents and grandparents died at a younger age than their ancestors (most of whom did not smoke or drink it seems).

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
17. Your grandparents probably worked much harder than, and were subjected to stresses,
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 01:17 PM
Aug 2013

unknown to their ancestors. The biggest hurdle to understanding all of these matters is putting information into the context of bald monkeys being individual, complex, whole biological systems.

The industrial revolution forced human beings into a factory-type environment. No animal, including us, has ever before worked on an unyielding, consistent schedule as we are expected to today.

PatSeg

(47,239 posts)
23. It does appear that a more urban lifestyle
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 01:37 PM
Aug 2013

had a rather profound effect on the family's life span. Until the 20th century, most of my ancestors lived in very small towns or on farms. I was just browsing through my tree and I found some great aunts and uncles who lived into their 90's. They didn't move to the "big city" like my grandparents.

In spite of advances in medicine, the following generation averaged late 60's to early 70's. The quality of life certainly did change and yes as you said, there was considerable more stress.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
41. We need social time, we're social animals. I believe this system kills more of us than any other
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 09:23 PM
Aug 2013

single cause. Diet, hygiene, and better health care are all wonderful, but they just improve the odds of getting to your expiration date. Living under the persistent demands most of us do now is just not good for you.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
32. As did mine. Many of my ancestors from the 1700's and 1800's lived into their 80's
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 04:12 PM
Aug 2013

and 90's -- my mom lived to 86 and was a heavy smoker. Her parents lived into their 90's, as did my father's parents.

I don't think I'm going to do nearly as well.

PatSeg

(47,239 posts)
39. At first I thought
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 07:15 PM
Aug 2013

wow, I have really good genes, but I've noticed that it seems to be the norm among people who lived in small towns or farms. All the horror stories I've read about devastating epidemics like cholera, smallpox, influenza, etc., but I've never encountered these diseases in my research and I have a very extensive tree.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
42. Interesting. When my mother was a child in a large city in Canada in the 20's, there was
Fri Aug 30, 2013, 12:34 AM
Aug 2013

a yellow fever epidemic. She had 8 or 9 siblings; all died but her and 2 others. So I can't say we weren't touched by epidemics.

TB got one or two ancestors, too.

PatSeg

(47,239 posts)
45. It is hard to imagine what it was like
Fri Aug 30, 2013, 10:52 PM
Aug 2013

to lose most of your family from one disease in a short period of time. It appears that urban areas were far more vulnerable being sanitation was so poor. I was reading a book on Lincoln and Washington DC was absolutely lethal at the time. Filthy, disease plagued city.


PatSeg

(47,239 posts)
37. I looked back at my grandmother and her siblings (nine children in all)
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 07:07 PM
Aug 2013

They lived to an average age of 79.9 years. My grandmother, who led a very hard life, died at the youngest age of 68. Her one brother lived to 100.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
6. A note on medieval life expectancy:
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 10:48 AM
Aug 2013

While that figure of 45 or so is accurate for average life expectancy in Europe's Middle Ages, it should be noted that the horrible rate of infant mortality skews that average considerably. If a person made it past that period, their life expectancy would still be lower than today, but not by anywhere near 30 years.

As for the main point of the OP, yeah...we've been sold a bill of goods. Modern technological efficiencies should have acted to reduce the time the average person spends working. Instead it's served largely to make a tiny portion of the population fabulously rich...while the rest of us toil. Kinda like feudalism, only we're pacified by an illusion of self-rule.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
21. Excellent post.
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 01:31 PM
Aug 2013

Especially this part:

Modern technological efficiencies should have acted to reduce the time the average person spends working. Instead it's served largely to make a tiny portion of the population fabulously rich...while the rest of us toil. Kinda like feudalism, only we're pacified by an illusion of self-rule.


Thank you.

PatSeg

(47,239 posts)
40. Computers, cell phones, video games, and flat screen TVs
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 07:18 PM
Aug 2013

tend to make people think they are better off than they are. A lot of science fiction authors predicted this kind of a world, but it seemed so far-fetched.

bobclark86

(1,415 posts)
2. Sure, they all...
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 10:38 AM
Aug 2013

died of horrible diseases by the millions (with the only treatments being the eating of year-old snake meat and the 14th century equivalent of "pray the gay away&quot , they were forced to march off to battle in Europe and Palestine (usually dying on the way or from sickness once there), they were horribly abused and lived pretty much in slavery over much of Europe, had an infant mortality rate which makes modern sub-Saharan Africa look fantastic, and they had to rest part-way through the day because of the backbreaking work making it impossible to NOT collapse at the plow, but they could enjoy eight weeks of drinking watered-down beer and eating the crappiest bread ever made (but hardly any meat, because they were poor and would be shot on sight for hunting) at extra-high prices to make the nobility and monastic classes even MOAR MONIEZ!

Yeah, a real workers' paradise.

BTW, as usual, the article is horribly Euro-centric. Like, to the point where muslims (who were FAR more advanced technologically), the Chinese, Japanese, Africans, Native Americans, et. al. are completely ignored.

knitter4democracy

(14,350 posts)
5. I wish more of us would question the status quo.
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 10:48 AM
Aug 2013

I also wish those who were in charge would do more to consider the needs of the 99%...

Joe Shlabotnik

(5,604 posts)
36. I agree
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 05:15 PM
Aug 2013

We're conditioned from the day we start kindergarten to be clock punching drones, and taught the Puritan belief that idleness is wrong. But this mindset is institutionalized, and encouraged by those in charge in order to maintain a system that keeps them wealthy, lazy and in charge. They'll never do anything out of the goodness of their hearts for us: we must change it ourselves.

Snake Plissken

(4,103 posts)
9. you selfish people only think about yourselves, do you ever stop to think about the blight
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 12:18 PM
Aug 2013

of the poor billionaires and how tough they have it? It's not easy being an obscenely wealthy angry old White man in this country when everyone else is getting all the handouts.

Xolodno

(6,383 posts)
12. Keynes didn't assume...
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 12:36 PM
Aug 2013

...that rabid consumerism would suddenly take the front seat. I didn't get a flat screen until the old tube died. But many people I know had already tossed perfectly working tube TV's in favor for flat screen. I still don't have a smart phone...waiting for my pay as I go phone to start going on the fritz.

But I am the envy of many my co-workers and friends. In that, "I always take nice vacations".

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
15. LOL, I bet that peasant would love to learn to type and sit in air conditioning all day
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 01:00 PM
Aug 2013

So she could then get in her air conditioned Honda Pilot and drive while listening to 14th century music on her IPod

 

markiv

(1,489 posts)
20. the 40 hour week became the 40 hour paycheck for unlimited hours
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 01:30 PM
Aug 2013

for anyone salaried

all hours above that are basically slavery

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
25. production, not money, was the primary motive--and there were potlatches
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 02:19 PM
Aug 2013

serfdom was never *fun* (even if one could accumulate more than the freeholders), but it was different in the 15th than in the 19th centuries: when people talk about "neofeudalism" they really mean "neomercantilism," which is basically the opposite thing: the Master is 3,000 miles away and has hired an overseer with no interest in the well-being of an expendable, disposable worker-tool
I mean, why do people pretend that "A World Lit Only By Fire" or Andrew Dickson White are real histories? it's a deliberate move to make people forget other ways of living than the Whiggish mercantile class's
nowadays we have no left, no labor *movement*--because by 1952 the political spectrum had been sharply trimmed, and crises and contradictions led to the 60s movements and 70s contrarianism (which was snapped up and turned into the right-libertarianism that's further degraded labor conditions)

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
28. My math comes out differently: 52 * 2 = 104, plus 8 vacation days = 112.
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 02:34 PM
Aug 2013

And that doesn't include common holidays like Thanksgiving, 4th of July, Memorial Day, Labor Day, etc. that are days off for everyone who isn't in either retail or the hospitality industry.

Isn't the entire concept of "weekend" a fairly recent innovation?

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
30. A week off quaffing ale, with no annoying emails to check, phone calls to take,
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 03:24 PM
Aug 2013

or time to be wasted on the internet- what's not to love? I bet it was pretty good ale too. Foaming in metal tankards and served by buxom wenches. While someone played the mandolin with a jester frolicking about.

Avalux

(35,015 posts)
33. My company just got rid of earned vacation time.
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 04:14 PM
Aug 2013

Now, any time off has to be arranged with a person's manager. No limit on time off as long as the work is done. Problem is - the work is NEVER done.

I'ts insane.

dickthegrouch

(3,169 posts)
35. Why do you think they're called "the idle rich" ?
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 04:29 PM
Aug 2013
It wasn't supposed to turn out this way: John Maynard Keynes, one of the founders of modern economics, made a famous prediction that by 2030, advanced societies would be wealthy enough that leisure time, rather than work, would characterize national lifestyles. So far, that forecast is not looking good.


Only the rich were ever supposed to benefit from this.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
43. Whose peasants/serfs are we talking about?
Fri Aug 30, 2013, 01:03 AM
Aug 2013

Because I'm pretty sure that peasants/serfs in Russia and Central and Eastern Europe tended to have it a lot rougher than their brethren/sisteren in more westerly locations

JNelson6563

(28,151 posts)
44. A rather tiny time frame here.
Fri Aug 30, 2013, 01:27 AM
Aug 2013

Yes, there was a period in the 14th century where it was a laborer's market, as it were. The famine wiped out half the population and the common man found himself with a bit of bargaining power.

Of course it didn't take long for laws to be passed to crush this new found power. Peasants were tied to the land. They had to swear fealty to their lord and work his land almost as much as he had to work his own.

And when there wasn't work to do in relation to crops many had to scrape by selling crafts at market, if they were shown royal favor and granted permission to actually hold a market.

If there was a war then the local lord had to pony up his share of troops in order to keep his holdings so guess how that was done. Yeah, show up and fight under my banner or I'll starve you and yours.

I really dislike articles that set out to make medieval life look IN ANY WAY easier than it is now.

It is absurd.

Julie

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
46. But what about peasant women?
Sat Aug 31, 2013, 01:24 AM
Aug 2013

This article seems to focus solely upon the work done by men. I'll bet their women didn't get time off. They worked every day in all seasons -- cooking, cleaning, sewing, caring for children, helping in the fields. These days a woman is expected to run the home plus often hold a job outside the home. It really rather irks me that this article refers to the "abundance of leisure" of the medieval peasant when I'll bet the women weren't kicking back slugging down ale or napping during their "long holidays" while waiting for the next planting season.

 

Pretzel_Warrior

(8,361 posts)
49. So THAT's why witch burnings and other executions were so well attended
Sat Aug 31, 2013, 08:17 AM
Aug 2013

Gosh, give me THOSE kind of bennies. 12 hours behind the plow is a small price to pay if I get time off to watch jugglers!?

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
50. And our educational expectations reflect that...
Sat Aug 31, 2013, 08:20 AM
Aug 2013

Education in America is focused on training that helps employment.

I wouldn't want to say that should be utterly abandoned. But it's amazing how little we think education contributes to enriching life outside of the workplace.

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