So who really perpetrated the sarin gas attack in Syria?.....

[Little Star]

The Syrian Government or the rebels? Both were capable. And why are the UN inspectors leaving earlier than originally planned?

Reuters
By Louis Charbonneau and Michelle Nichols
Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:19pm EDT

Syrian envoy alleges rebel gas attack, demands U.N. investigate

Syria asked the United Nations on Wednesday to order chemical experts in Damascus to investigate three rebel attacks in which he said Syrian troops "inhaled poisonous gas," while Britain pushed for the Security Council to act on the crisis.

The United States dismissed the appeal by Syria's U.N. envoy, saying it had refused chemical experts access to Syria to investigate allegations poisonous gas had been used repeatedly in the country's 2-1/2-year-old civil war.

The United Nations has received at least 14 reports of possible chemical weapons use in Syria. After months of diplomatic wrangling, a team of experts, led by Swedish scientist Ake Sellstrom, arrived in Syria on August 18.

The U.N. team was initially going to look into three incidents, but its priority became investigating an alleged gas attack in the rebel-held suburbs of Damascus last week, which activists say killed hundreds of civilians.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/28/us-syria-crisis-un-investigation-idUSBRE97R18F20130828

What the hell is really going on? Will we ever know the truth of who did the sarin gas attacks?

I was watching Tamaron Hall on MSNBC earlier and she had a panel on talking about this and the MSNBC military guy ( expert in this field for something like 60 years) said the rebels most certainly could have carried out the attack. He is not convinced that we actually know who did it yet.

[leveymg]

1. There have been a number of chem attacks by both. "A pox on both houses" So bomb everyone or none

Really, what would a US attack do but tilt the balance in favor of al-Qaeda and the rest of the Saudi-backed opposition?

The prospect of deeper involvement in this war is sickening.

[Little Star]

2. The prospect of deeper involvement in Syria's civil war is sickening.....

even more so without a full investigation and report form the UN inspectors.

I don't think there are any innocent players in Syria's civil war. Just poor innocent people killed by it, just as with any civil war.

[dixiegrrrrl]

3. We do have evidence of a planned Syria attack as of 2 years ago:

So any excuse in a storm, I guess.

On Monday February 27th, 2012, WikiLeaks began publishing The Global Intelligence Files, over five million e-mails from the Texas headquartered "global intelligence" company Stratfor.
The e-mails date between July 2004 and late December 2011.
They reveal the inner workings of a company that fronts as an intelligence publisher, but provides confidential intelligence services to large corporations, such as Bhopal's Dow Chemical Co., Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon and government agencies, including the US Department of Homeland Security, the US Marines and the US Defence Intelligence Agency. The emails show Stratfor's web of informers, pay-off structure, payment laundering techniques and psychological methods.

One E-mail:
military intervention in Syria, post withdrawal status of forces
Released on 2012-03-06 07:00 GMT

https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/1671459_insight-military-intervention-in-syria-post-withdrawal.html

[Little Star]

4. Thanks. But that was a sickening read. I actually only scanned it, will go back to read more...

fully later. But I did catch enough to make me sick.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

5. I don't back action, at least not w/o Congress,

and outside of a phone call to Boehner I haven't heard of anything from them, so just to be clear, that's my position.

However, it is disingenuous in the extreme to believe that this has more than a sliver of a chance of being the rebels. I give you this blog, from a guy who knows munitions well, and there are links in there to other sources as well:

http://brown-moses.blogspot.co.uk

The man has not conclusively said it was the gov't, and he just sent out a couple of tweets saying this:

If anyone does have actual decent evidence of the opposition using chemical weapons please let me know.

If there's actual proof I'd blog about it so fast my fingers would catch on fire, but so far the evidence has be very poor

So, all these posts about how it mighta/coulda/maybe been the rebels? Show real evidence. Like this guy has: he even meticulously tried to trace the most likely direction one rocket came from, and the most likely direction wound up being from the north, where, just by coinkydink, there's a buncha Syrian army bases.
If you can show evidence of this kind of quality, let's see it. You can refer it over to him and see what he has to say. He's extremely meticulous and has no ax to grind; his position is that any action should await presentation and full consideration of the UN report.
I've seen nothing approaching the quality of this guy's posts from anyone saying it was the rebels.

[Little Star]

6. Here's something about congress....

Susan Davis, USA TODAY 8:54 p.m. EDT August 28, 2013

Lawmakers seek authorization vote on Syria

A growing, bipartisan number of lawmakers on Capitol Hill are asking President Obama to seek their vote of approval before any U.S. military intervention in Syria in response to evidence that the nation used chemical weapons in an ongoing civil war.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/08/28/syria-congress-authorization-obama-military-strike/2712985/

Back as far as July Russia had already asked the UN to investigate the rebels use of chemical weapons:

On Tuesday, Russia submitted to the UN its analysis of the samples taken at the Syrian town where chemical weapons were used. Evidence studied by Russian scientists indicates that a projectile carrying the deadly nerve agent sarin was most likely fired at Khan al-Assal, west of Aleppo, by rebels, rather than government forces.

Russia “guarantees” the quality of the analysis, which fully complies with the requirements set by the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), Sergey Lavrov told a media conference on Wednesday, following talks with his Belarusian counterpart.

http://www.silviacattori.net/article4618.html

So who really knows the truth yet. imho, it could be either and that no one knows anything for sure.

[DevonRex]

9. You'd believe Russia but not the U.S.?

[Little Star]

12. No of course not. But I don't automatically believe the US either....

That's why I think it's so important that the UN inspectors be let to do their job thoroughly and report back before we rush of in any direction.

I don't think anyone really knows the complete truth yet. And that includes our own government. Besides I also think that congress should play the major role in any decision.

[DevonRex]

18. That's good.

Just remember that Russia has billions invested in Syria. And Syria buys billions from Russia.

So, if you take information from us with a grain of salt, take info from Russia with a whole salt shaker.

[Little Star]

19. Will do.

[sabrina 1]

30. What do you believe? Did you see Cameron today admitting that they

don't have 'proof' that 'this is a judgement call'. Whose 'judgement'? He was pressed by Parliament to SHOW them the EVIDENCE. He could not but explained that he had 'watched videos'. Wow, he saw 'videos'. He admitted that the evidence is circumstantial.

I believe HIM, though he tried his hardest to avoid the direct questions he was asked.

He doesn't have the support of his people anymore than this government has the support of Americans. Only 9% here support this latest insane idea.

And what is the US going to do about the Kurds who are right now being attacked by the 'Syrian Rebels, Al Queda forces who are driving out of Syria by the thousands. Betray them for the THIRD TIME?

Whose side are we on in this? There is NO QUESTION that the 'rebels' are made up mostly now of extremists. So Cameron says 'we won't arm the 'rebels' due to the fact that there are so many extreme factions among them, killing and slaughtering innocent people.

I saw video too, like Cameron, which may be why he is finally hesitating at least. I saw video of the 'rebels' murdering captured soldiers. A WAR CRIME.

Is this what we have come to? And where is the evidence of even what kind of chemical was used?

There's also the fact that now we are told it IS Possible for the 'rebels' to have had access to chemical weapons.

So with all these questions unresolved we are pushing for another 'rush to war'. We have learned NOTHING from Iraq which is in a state of disaster, with millions of its citizens in SYRIA and JORDON having been driven from their homes by our last disastrous adventure.

[DevonRex]

32. Sabrina, I know that I would ALWAYS trust

this administration above Vladimir Putin. Vlad is a sociopath.

As to Syria, I have not made my mind up about the best course of action. There is much more to this than chemical weapons. But Assad's troops definitely used them. That isn't the defining aspect for me.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

13. Forwarded on, got three points in reply:

1. Syrian gov't claimed it was fired from 50 km, but the rocket named by the Russians can't fly more than 5k.
2. The people allegedly firing the rocket aren't based anywhere near Aleppo.
3. The report isn't in the public domain, so beyond the above, can't really say much.

So there you have it. I don't know why the report wouldn't be released in full.

[Little Star]

16. I had seen a much more in depth article earlier today....

and search long and hard as I did before answering your post I couldn't for the life of me find the dang thing again. Sorry.

[Marrah_G]

7. Who knows, maybe both

The rebels are not good people either

[jsr]

8. Both sides are capable, and both sides are bad.

[warrprayer]

10. the truth lies here....

[KittyWampus]

11. WHICH attack are you referencing? The recent large scale attack was not done by rebels.

And I sincerely doubt the expert suggested Damascus was the work of rebels.

There have been a series of smaller attacks with chemical weapons alleged. Some of which might be attributed to rebels.

I have not seen any others mentioned on the scale of what occurred in Damascus.

Searching now for several days and have nothing but rightwing sites making the assertion Damascus was done by rebels.

[Little Star]

14. Did I say specifically Damascus? No I didn't.....

And if both sides of that civil war are guilty of using chemical weapons why are we ready to only punish the Syrian Govt.? Why not both sides of their war?

[BainsBane]

15. Assad

Last week they denied there was any gas at all. Then the inspectors get attacked on their way to the site. Assad's forces perpetrated the attack. He's capable of anything.

[Little Star]

21. Just because he's a liar doesn't prove the rebels aren't guilty of also using...

chemical weapons.

[Cali_Democrat]

33. Well

If at first they say there was no attack and then they say there was an attack but the rebels did it...my hunch is that it was Assad's forces.

[kentuck]

17. Assad saw this as a way to unite his people behind him if the US attacked?

His hold on his government may be more precarious than any of us know? This may have been a final straw gamble by Assad?

[Little Star]

22. Could be.

[Gravitycollapse]

25. That theory doesn't appear to jive with reality.

It seems current momentum is on the side of the state forces. There would be no logical reason for turning the chemical attacks into a suicide mission.

[kentuck]

31. So, you think the gas was released by the rebels?

Because it would have been a suicide mission for Assad to invite an attack by the US?

[Gravitycollapse]

35. I think the state forces did it to expedite victory.

And they didn't anticipate the media attention.

[DevonRex]

34. This may have much less to do with Syria than we know.

There's film of Assad's troops firing the chemical weapons and there's voice intercept. When you have voice intercept you also have position which tells you exactly who it is.

Those things plus the canisters they've found plus the delivery mechanism all line up to Syrian troops.

Assad knew about the "red line" statement, of course. He also doesn't make a move like this without Putin's command. Putin knows that after all the damage that's been done recently over the leaks, and after the wars of GWB, the US and UK are much less likely to act. Not acting after the red line statement will make Obama look weak. Acting will make him at odds with the mood of the country. It's a win-win for Putin, who is expanding Russian influence in the ME.

Most people don't realize this but Putin is a bigoted man down to his toes. The anti-LGBT law in Russia wasn't just for Russia. It was a signal to ME countries who have similar laws. And Russia has tolerated Neo-Nazis luring gays out to beat them up. Neo-Nazis don't hate only LGBTs. They also hate Jews. Another signal. But it's loud and clear and for the first time I'm a bit concerned about Israel. Normally I'm as angry at them as I am at anybody else. Sometimes angrier. But right now I'm thinking, Oh Shit.

[The Straight Story]

20. There have been 14 attacks so far, which one, the most recent? (nt)

[Little Star]

23. Any/all of them.....

Edit to add: I should have worded my OP better. sorry.

[KittyWampus]

24. The reason Damascus is different than previous alleged incidents is scale and targeting civilians.

the other incidents are being investigate by UN except for the 3 very most recent from last several days.

The UN can try to figure out if chemical weapons were used in previous assaults but there is no question that Damascus involved chemicals and was done by Assad's forces. Concrete proof about Damascus might be hard to come by… but there's no doubt it was his army.

[Little Star]

27. I can see that but any use of chemical weapons is a no-no. Besides...

I've seen/read people who have more knowledge on the subject than just us lay people say that the rebels could have carried that one out. They just needed the right delivery device and some think they may have had it,

In other words, I don't believe anything yet.

[KG]

26. in the context of US involvement, it matters not who loosed the the chemical weapons.

[Little Star]

28. Sorry, I don't know what you mean.

[orpupilofnature57]

29. Was George H Bush driving somewhere in Texas, where he's not sure...

or his nifty buddies