To those who say "give peace a chance": what does that mean?

[brooklynite]

I ask that as someone who's not enthusiastic about military engagement, but who doesn't see an alternative at this point. The bottom line is that if the US does not become involved, peace will not be the alternative. The Syrian Government has been using violence against protesters calling for Democracy for more than two years. It has a record of violence against civilians in previous protests going back 30 years. It has resisted attempts at negotiation and has resisted economic sanctions. Assuming you're not an isolationist (principled, but naive in my opinion), what approach would you take? From my perspective, a military strike might not resolve the problem, but I can't think of another strategy that will.

[KarenS]

1. Did someone actually say "give peace a chance" regarding Syria??

I may have missed it.

[BainsBane]

4. Yes, someone just said something like that to me

I don't even support military intervention, but they assumed I did and accused me of hating peace. There isn't a lot of deep thinking going on.

[bobduca]

5. Ban Ki Moon?

[KarenS]

11. Thank you,,, I found a transcript of what he said. n/t

[Dash87]

2. I think they mean the US.

We've been warmongering for decades. It's time to hang up our hat and quit our post WWII-assumed role of World Policeman.

[Dreamer Tatum]

3. Why do we have to do anything at all?

Please explain to me why we have to do a damn thing.

Your OP presents us with a false dichotomy.

[BainsBane]

6. It isn't a dichotomy at all

It's a question. It's interrogating the assumption that there is a dichotomy between war and peace.

[brooklynite]

8. Because we care about the world around us?

As I said, I understand the principle of isolationism, but I think it's naive. Should I be spending money on rebuilding New Orleans when there are homeless people in (City of your choice)?

Maybe its because I've lived in a dictatorship, and maybe its because I've meet people in Syria, but I this there's value in helping others to receive the same benefits we enjoy.

[Warren Stupidity]

15. we've kept that conflict alive for the last year, stoking the flames, arming the opposition.

we have as much blood on our hands as the Assad regime, and the people we are supporting are just as murderous as the people we are opposing. How about we stop fucking around with Syria entirely?

What exactly do you expect will be the result from us blowing a bunch of shit up in Syria? You really think our direct intervention is going to make things better? It will be more dead people, and if we succeed bloody chaos and slaughter way beyond what is currently happening followed by, most likely, some hideous sunni islamic regime replacing the secular nationalist Assad regime.

Libya is a mess. Egypt is a mess. Iraq is a mess. We are propping up the murderous military regime in Egypt even after it slaughtered hundreds of civilians this month, as we propped up the Mubarak regime for decades. It seems our "humanitarian" efforts are very selective.


Its a Lennon/Ono song from the 60's: "All we are saying is give peace a chance".

[Bluenorthwest]

7. You actually don't understand what that means? Or is this 'obtuse with agenda' crap?

Who said it, why aren't you asking them?
How is a strike a 'strategy' rather than a tactic? Do you even know the difference? You are supporting a tactic independent of strategy and any such tactic is dangerous, random action.
How do you rationalize our business relationships with say, Saudi Arabia which beheads gay people and oppresses women? How about China, do you claim to approve of all they do, all they have done for 30 years when you do business with them? Why is it fine to be kind to horrific regimes that murder vast amounts of people except for Syria?
I am thinking of Obama standing with the Ugandan President who wants an anti gay genocide. Obama said it was 'a bit uncomfortable'. We send troops to assist Uganda, which kills my people. Why do you approve of that, or are you some isolationist or situational interventionist?
Seems to me they want to give peace a chance when money can be made, go right to war when there is no potential for profit from mining or manufacture or oil.

[cali]

9. "give peace a chance" is a silly thing to say about syria

I'm in the "first do no harm" camp. And military strikes could well do more harm than good.

If the U.S. and other nations give a shit about saving Syrian lives, they'd be mounting a massive relief effort for the Syrian refugees.

[Rex]

10. As opposed to decades of civil war and strife

instead, give peace a chance between all groups and see if they can work something out without resorting to killing. They obviously gave war a chance.

Easy peasy.

[kentuck]

12. because talk, talk, talk is better than war, war, war...

To paraphrase Winston Churchill.

[markiv]

13. in this week of rememberance, how many people under 50 can name one vietnam soldier

who died in that war (without googling, anyone can google anything, or naming a friend or familiy member - i mean a stranger)

OUT OF RESPECT FOR THOSE PASSED, PLEASE TO NOT LIST ANY NAMES HERE - a debate thread is not the place to honor them by name

i'm talking about the name having a place in memory

if none of those 58,000 names are worth remembering, how can we tell a young person that their life is worth this cause today?

[woo me with science]

14. The propaganda

has no credibility anymore.

(I am thinking of putting that to music.)

[dixiegrrrrl]

16. Dylan put it to music, damn well.

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks.

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly.

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do.

You fasten the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud.

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul.

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead.

[woo me with science]

19. Thank you!

I may start linking to that in my posts.

[dixiegrrrrl]

20. Those who know me will tell you

how angry I am right now, when I start hauling out the Viet Nam era lyrics.

Nothing seems to have changed at all over the last 45 years.

[woo me with science]

21. I think the anger in the country

is a source of real concern for the powers that be.

Unfortunately, their plan in response seems to be to implement a surveillance state, assault journalism and civil protections, and bully us into submission.

I"m not so sure that's going to work.

[Harmony Blue]

17. So Moon is wrong?

I think I trust Moon's opinion more so than yours brooklynite.

[brooklynite]

18. How has the UN addressed this problem in the past two years?

[whatchamacallit]

22. Spoken like a true American

who lets others fight and die.

[Octafish]

24. ''Money trumps peace.'' -- George AWOL Bush, pretzeldentin' on Feb. 14, 2007

#t=0s

Cindy Sheehan understood a warmonger when she saw one.

[geek tragedy]

23. I don't think anyone is saying "give peace a chance"

Peace is irrelevant to the situation in Syria.

As is diplomacy.

The winners will eventually win there, and the losers will really lose.