Daniel Ellsberg: ‘Obama Would Have Indicted Me & Sought A Life Sentence For Me"

[kpete]

Daniel Ellsberg: ‘Obama Would Have Indicted Me’

But we come back to Obama. I think Obama’s interpretation is no, these are criminals… and he has decided to do what no previous president did ... which is to say prosecuted multiple whistle-blowers under the Espionage Act. He has brought seven indictments. ... Before him there were three presidents who each brought one … It’s an unprecedented campaign against whistle-blowing. And [Army Judge Denise Lind] is in a chain of command where she heard her commander in chief say [Manning] was guilty before he was even on trial. But I think he believes that, definitely. I have no question at all that Obama would not only have indicted me for the Pentagon Papers now ... even if it was before him, and I have no doubt that he would have sought a life sentence for me and believed I deserved it.


Transcript Here:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/daniel_ellsberg_whistle-blowers_are_good_for_democracy_20130829/
Listen Here:
http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/daniel_ellsberg_obama_would_have_indicted_me_20130829/?ln

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. live, or life?

[kpete]

2. ChairmanAgnostic

thanks for having my back,

and peace (+hope?)
kp

[ChairmanAgnostic]

5. always, KP, always.

[Jefferson23]

3. I do not recall Ellsberg as an individual who used his words to merely flame a situation.

And I have no reason to believe he is doing so, now.

K&R

[woo me with science]

6. +1

[Enthusiast]

21. Me too......nt

[uhnope]

54. great man of history but maybe losing the plot now. Assange-praise was the first sign. nt

[Swagman]

55. a great man and even greater as he has recognised Assange's contribution

and hasn't resorted to puerile insults like 'egotist' etc

[uhnope]

70. That's like right wing not allowing the term "racist". "Egotist" in dictionary has Assange's photo.

[Jefferson23]

61. I do believe his perspective is worth considering, you're certainly free to disagree. n/t

[woo me with science]

4. This is how sick the war on journalists and whistleblowers has gotten.

This is how grave our situation really is. They are systematically removing all avenues for the people to resist corporate abuse of power.

When they have reached the point of imprisoning journalists, forcing down aircraft of sovereign nations to pursue whistleblowers, and detaining the families of journalists in displays of sheer intimidation, we no longer are dealing with free societies and honest governments.

Huge K&R. This needs to go to the Greatest Page.

This is a reminder of what an utter disgrace all the propaganda on behalf of the war on journalism really is.

[MisterP]

7. by their claims shall ye know them: in 2006-10 They said the left was going to purge the Dems

and blamed it for all the losses
They said this BECAUSE they were hobbling and purging the left from the party 2006-10

[woo me with science]

8. Slick and devious.

Masters of the bait and switch. The whole damned government is full of corporate pod people now.

[MisterP]

10. well, more like "blatantly telegraphing and so ham-fisted as to cause confusion"

there's a LOT of factions at work here (Singlaub and Secord covered up their tracks quite well, I might say--and that was a CIA sideshow): I'm guessing they lost their fine touch around the time of Robert Hanssen and Aldrich Ames: they used to have Mockingbird and Control assets in every Honduran newspaper--but now they have to outsource their propaganda to some Aussie and a Canadian supervillain literally named Lord Black, and they have to share war propaganda with the corporatists and even the right-libertarians

[arikara]

62. Lord Black renounced his Canadian citizenship

so he could get the lord title from the Queen of England, then after he was jailed Chairman Harper of Canada welcomed him back. What a tangled web we weave.

[LiberalEsto]

34. +100 nt

[pnwmom]

9. Ellsberg, you didn't steal 58,000 documents without reading them

and you confined yourself to actual whistle-blowing.

Snowden stole thousands of documents related to US spying and gave them to journalists without an redactions. And at least one journalist's spouse has been carrying them around with a password written on a piece of paper.

Snowden is nothing like you, Ellsberg.

[woo me with science]

11. Snowden revealed an UNCONSTITUTIONAL SURVEILLANCE STATE.

How the hell do you sleep at night?

Seriously. I could not do this type of work. I would die of shame.

[pnwmom]

12. If that was what he cared about, why did he divert attention

to international spying? Why is he leaking about the UK's spying in the middle east?

[woo me with science]

18. No, you're the one trying to fabricate national security dangers.

Nothing has been leaked that is of any risk to anyone, except the credibility and reputation of corrupt corporate governments caught surveilling their own populations and targeting whistleblowers and journalists who expose the crimes.

[pnwmom]

19. You're not keeping up. The Washington Post says they were given

many documents that are too dangerous to publish, and The Independent has said the same thing. Snowden himself said that someone else must have given the documents about UK spying to The Independent, because he would never have passed on documents that could risk people's lives. Meanwhile, Miranda has been running around with a decryption password on a piece of paper and Snowden thinks his copies are safe on his laptops while he's in Russia (and before, in China).

Snowden has been incredibly naive.

[woo me with science]

25. And he didn't pass on documents to risk anyone's lives.

Meanwhile, the United States of America has become a corporate surveillance state, and you don't post about that at all. Trails of evidence have been fabricated to arrest American citizens, and that does not concern you.

You are fixated on information that has not been released to the public, and has not harmed anyone at all.

How telling that is.

[pnwmom]

29. Yes, he did pass on documents that could risk lives, as he has just acknowledged.

He just expected them to be safeguarded by the media organizations, so now he's perplexed about how the Independent got hold of documents he didn't give them.

[hueymahl]

58. Love this post

Sums it up nicely. The folks who keep ignoring the long term harm to our democracy and freedom while fixating on imaginary short term harm from unreleased information baffle me. It is almost like they have suffered a stroke or seizure. Or the are purposefully attempting to spin the truth to something more favorable to the administration, with the relentlessness of a paid sycophant. Fortunately that could never be the case here on DU.

[DeSwiss]

13. ''Snowden is nothing like you, Ellsberg.''

- So Ellsberg's own opinion about whom he thinks is like himself, doesn't count? Hahahahaha. That's so bizarre, it's actually quite funny.......

''But it was alright, everything was alright, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.'' ~George Orwell, 1984

[pnwmom]

14. Ellsberg is fixated on the whistle-blowing aspect that they shared.

However, I don't know when he made this statement. It apparently was before the latest information that the Independent just wrote about.

For example, Ellsberg says that Snowden only released secret documents. Newer information is that Snowden had access to and released top secret documents related to UK spying in the middle east. The Independent reported on that today.

[DeSwiss]

17. What they share is a love for freedom.

- And that's enough for most of us. But if we don't get this right, none of what Daniel thinks or that Edward has done will matter.

This is what concerns many of us that some people don't seem to understand. Or that maybe they just don't want to consider it because it's just too much to deal with. Too radical for their minds to contend with.

We have a serious problem here. And relying upon those who brought us to the brink, does not seem to be a good course to follow in my opinion. And so I won't.

[jmowreader]

22. The very first thing Snowden released was marked Top Secret

[pnwmom]

24. Then Ellberg clearly has been misinformed. n/t

[jmowreader]

42. Or none of them are who we believe them to be

Start with Snowden. http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/06/edward-snowden-leaking-change-of-heart.php
Snowden is a known, dues-paying Paulite.

Then there's Glenn Greenwald...check out this choice piece of work in which he comes down in favor of the Citizens United ruling. http://www.salon.com/2010/01/22/citizens_united/ He doesn't claim to be a Libertarian, but the Cato Institute really likes running his writings, even to the point of paying him for them. Cato likes Laura Poitras, too.

Daniel Ellsberg is another one the Libertarians are quite fond of. Google "ellsberg libertarian" and you get a shitload of returns from places I won't post here.

The question you have to ask yourself: is there a reason the Koch Brothers would go to such lengths? Think back to 2010 - the Right simultaneously demoralized the Left and pumped up the very hard right, and their reward was control over a lot of statehouses just in time to gerrymander the purple states. Now they wanna get rid of the "Kenyan Usurper" or at least neutralize his last two years in office. And if you look at this board, you can see they're doing a bang-up job.

[rhett o rick]

48. The question I ask myself is, "do I trust the Republican run spy agencies, run by Clapper,

Alexander, Muller, and Comey? I do not. I dont trust Republicans. Those that trust Clapper here are not Democrats.

I dont give a shit what Snowden has done or what Greenwald has done. I care what spying my billions of dollars is buying.

Some here choose to defame whistle-blowers and anyone that dares question their almighty authoritarian leaders.

Put your head in the sand and pretend that Clapper is not spying on all Americans.

[TiberiusB]

68. Ummm, so what?

Besides smearing the messenger, how does this change anything? Snowden's politics mean the NSA is an honest and trustworthy spook organization that never does anything illegal?

All libertarians are always wrong and everything they say is a lie and they are just bad, bad, bad?

Laura Poitras is bad because, well, CATO? If speaking at CATO is the ultimate barometer of who can be trusted and who can't, then DKos, the ACLU, and even Democrats like Ron Wyden are on the sh*tlist.

[idwiyo]

44. Did Mr Ellsberg told you he was misinformed but forgot to tell everyone else?

Or did you use a Krystal Ball (tm) to divine your pronouncement?

[Dustlawyer]

65. But how do you feel about the NSA spying on us?

[former9thward]

66. You seem to have a deep interest in protecting UK spying in the ME.

Why? What exactly are you trying to protect?

[rhett o rick]

39. Apparently rationalization is the key to your happiness. Why dont you

let Mr. Ellsberg speak for himself. In fact he has and he supports Snowden and Pfc Manning.

[proverbialwisdom]

46. So does Amnesty International (see A.I. petition at https://petitions.whitehouse.gov)

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/restore-united-states’-human-rights-record-and-grant-clemency-pvt-bradley-manning/L7zHZv4r (must copy and paste in browser)

WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO:

Restore the United States’ human rights record and grant clemency to Pvt. Bradley Manning!

The prosecution of Bradley Manning starkly contrasts to the US govt's repeated failure to deliver justice for serious human rights violations committed during counter-terror operations of the past decade.

Manning, who released classified information exposing potential breaches of international humanitarian law by US forces, was sentenced in military court on Aug 21st to 35 yrs in prison.

Manning's severe sentence contrasts with the leniency given those responsible for torture and other types of grave human rights violations he revealed.

To reduce this blight on the US human rights record, President Obama should grant Manning clemency for time served, protect whistleblowers, and provide accountability for crimes like those Manning exposed.

AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL
PARDON.BRADLEYMANNING.ORG

Created: Aug 20, 2013

SIGNATURES NEEDED BY SEPTEMBER 20, 2013 TO REACH GOAL OF 100,000
78,480

TOTAL SIGNATURES ON THIS PETITION
21,520

CREATOR
A. I.
San Francisco, CA
August 21, 2013
Signature # 1

[frylock]

53. it's always fun to watch someone admonish one of the leading subject matter experts on this issue..

that really REALLY takes some hubris. really.

[99th_Monkey]

15. K & R ~ nt

[Uncle Joe]

16. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

[kpete]

35. as always

Uncle Joe

peace to you and yours,
kp

[KittyWampus]

20. Did Ellsberg impersonate someone with higher security clearance to steal documents?

[rhett o rick]

40. No and he didnt date a pole dancer, what's your point? He supports Pfc Manning

and Snowden. Whistle-blowers always have to break rules or laws to expose corruption.

[HangOnKids]

41. I'm Sure Dan Cares About Your Opinion

Why don't you call him to clarify it for YOU?

[Swagman]

56. no but the end result is the same...a revealtion that we are spied upon

and endless ratbags condone it.

[bananas]

23. "Truthdig Radio airs Thursdays at 4 p.m. Pacific time on 90.7 KPFK in Los Angeles."

k&r!

[WillyT]

26. K & R !!!

[Thinkingabout]

27. Again, just a lot of bitching here, damned if Obama does his job and damned if he does not, WTH.

Some thinks he should pick and chose which parts of the Constitution he should uphold and others wants him to interpret the Constitution to their thinking. My goodness, does the ODS ever take a breath?

People commits crimes and they need to face the time.

[Vanje]

30. "People commits crimes and they need to face the time."

....Except war crimes, it appears.

People who commit war crimes are not sought by this administration.

Lying to congress is apparently A-Okay too.

[QC]

31. Don't forget financial crimes that bring the entire world economy

to the very brink of collapse.

Those are OK, too.

[Thinkingabout]

37. I did not excuse any of the crimes. When the Glass-Stegall Act like as repealed, it allowed

Decisions to be made which did bring down the banks. I said at the time this act was repealed there would be trouble and it happened. There are reasons not to change laws and the Constitution when they might not meet the immediate needs of some at the moment.

[EOTE]

60. I guess the repeal of Glass-Stegall allowed war crimes as well.

The pro surveillance folks will excuse ANY crimes other than the crimes which expose the corrupt things those in power do. THOSE crimes need to be addressed swiftly and harshly. It's truly sick.

[Thinkingabout]

74. Are you familiar with the Glass-Stegall Act? The post to which I responded was a statement about

Financial companies. You have jumped ship on the subject matter.

[woo me with science]

32. +1000000 How about implementing a surveillance state

How about implementing a surveillance state against US citizens, in violation of the US Constitution?

How about fabricating evidence trails to imprison American citizens?

How selective and tortured the demands for "justice" are from the corporate mouthpieces.

[Thinkingabout]

38. What part of the Constitution are you referring?

[Vanje]

71. I'm going to take a wild-assed guess here

and guess that the poster to whom you are replying was referring to this bit:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

[Thinkingabout]

72. So if warrants are issued this would be in compliance with the Fourth Amendment. The warrants was

Issued in the FISA court to the communications companies which is owns and maintains the records so that what is your next point. Again what part of the Constitution has been violated.

[Vanje]

79. Warrants issued by a hand-picked secret court, based on secret laws

Do you really think the FISA kangaroo court is what the framers of the constitution had in mind?

[Thinkingabout]

80. Well, at least you are agreeing warrants are being issued. As far as which court they are being

Issued in does not matter. The Fourth Amendment does not restrict which court or how the officials' are selected. The Supreme Court Justices are nominated by the president and confirmed by the Senate which is small in number compared to the population of the US. Some judges are appointed, some are elected. Might a good reason to have a court to deal with national security issues be smart rather than going to a local justice of the peace? You may or may not agree with the methods by which this nation operates but some procedures have been working quiet well for a lot of years. I have heard some wanting to repeal amendments but to repeal the Fourth Amendment would remove the current protection we now enjoy in requiring warrants, then you could be required to subject yourself to searches anytime someone in authority desires.

[Dustlawyer]

64. For some reason, a large number of folks have swallowed the NSA's views and believe

That Snowden and Greenwald are the story. Maybe they work for the NSA and are tasked with arguing with us to change the focus. It is working!
Spying on its citizens is a big Constitutional No No! This is the story of the decade, or should be! Corporate media would not allow that to happen. They are trying to gain control over the internets by planting false stories and diverting the conversations on sites like DU. These Snowden/Greenwald shills are either Pros or severely mis-guided!

[fascisthunter]

50. some people would rather have kings

than a democracy with checks and balances which work. Lying to engage in wars is now acceptable as long as they are not on the accepting end.

[TiberiusB]

67. Suuuuure...

Can't we just look forward on all this? Why look back at whatever crimes may have bee committed when we can take what we have learned and move forward?

Are we even sure a crime has been committed?

Oh, wait, my bad, that only applies when your crimes involve thousands of actual lives lost or ruined, trillions wasted, and whole regions destabilized.

Or maybe when fraud reaches such a level that it threatens to tear down the entire world economy and throws millions into poverty and despair.

I'm sure Manning and Snowden can buy their way out of trouble by reaching some sort of agreement with the DOJ, just like BofA, or JpMorgan, or BP, or so many others with billions in their pockets, much of it lifted from the public till, regularly toss around.

Let's not pretend that the war on whistleblowers is Obama "doing his job". It's a sign that the "rule of law" Obama spoke so highly of once only applies to the 99%. Our government is rapidly sliding into full plutocracy and fascism and apparently people talking about it is "bitching". This isn't an "Obama" problem, it's a "death of democracy" disaster.

[gopiscrap]

28. I love Daniel Ellsberg

I head him speak at the University of Puget Sound in Tacoma, WA about five years ago and he did a great job!

[Peregrine]

33. He was indicted and convicted

Only the inept and malicious behavior of the prosecutor and investigators got it overturned.

[Waiting For Everyman]

52. And he's rightly revered for it.

The crime of releasing the Pentagon Papers was the best act of the whole Viet Nam era.

[bvar22]

36. Not a doubt.

DURec for the Whistle Blowers who guard our democracy.

[idwiyo]

43. K&R

[idwiyo]

45. K&R

[rhett o rick]

47. k&r thanks for posting. nm

[fascisthunter]

49. undoubtably true

[Autumn]

51. Yes he would.

K/R for a great man. Daniel Ellsberg. And may there be many more like him.

The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing

[Swagman]

57. the quislings still cannot silence good and honest men even as they rabbit

on about petty vile laws being broken and accuse whistle blowers of 'treason' just because there is a Democrat president.
The whole world is watching.

[Safetykitten]

59. FACT.

[FarCenter]

63. Ellsberg was tried on espionage, theft and other charges totalling 115 years

The judge declared a mistrial because the prosecution was compromised by government misdeeds.

The Obama White House would be very unlikely to make the mistakes that the Nixon White House made.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

69. Uh oh. We already found out Ellsburg is a "dick head" from one proud poster

Now another little Einstein is running around talking about a "libertarian spy ring". Ellsburg must be a part of the libertarian spy ring.

Hatred and stupidity aren't the best mix.

[treestar]

73. Any President's DOJ would have indicted him

as it would anyone who chooses to break the law. And Ellsberg was indicted. What is this about? The usual whining that Snowy should be given a completely free pass because he claims his actions were for the good? And more and more is coming out about Snowy and his real motives.

[davidn3600]

75. Obama has prosecuted more people under the Espionage act than all previous presidents combined

It's quite clear this president hates whistleblowers.

[treestar]

76. Prosecutions are undertaken where there is enough evidence for an indictment

Does the President hate all murderers and counterfeiters too?

You are the one using the label whistleblower. Whistleblowers comply with the law. Snowjob did not. Ellsberg's actions were before those laws and may have inspired them.

[davidn3600]

77. There was nothing else Snowden could have done to reveal what was going on

He wanted the American people to know the NSA is spying on them.

Since the government didn't want anyone to know (Clapper even lied in Congress to make sure we didn't know about it), there was no way Snowden could legally inform us was our government was doing.

[struggle4progress]

78. Mr Ellsberg is jabbering meaningless nonsense, comparing entirely different events,

widely separated in time and place

The question -- How would Obama have responded to Ellsberg? -- is ahistorical: there is simply no sensible way to construct any defensible answer to such an idiotic question, because there's no way to argue for or against the "validity" of any purported "answer"

Mr Obama was not yet ten years old when Mr Ellsberg's material began to appear. Disputes about the Vietnam War had been tearing the US in half politically for years by then. Ellsberg had been trying for a year and a half behind the scenes to get various Senators to read the material from the floor into the Senate record, before Gravel obliged