General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFAIR.org: Which Syrian Chemical Attack Account Is More Credible?
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The U.S. government, of course, has a track record that will incline informed observers to approach its claims with skepticismparticularly when it's making charges about the proscribed weapons of official enemies. Kerry said in his address that "our intelligence community" has been "more than mindful of the Iraq experience"as should be anyone listening to Kerry's presentation, because the Iraq experience informs us that secretaries of State can express great confidence about matters that they are completely wrong about, and that U.S. intelligence assessments can be based on distortion of evidence and deliberate suppression of contradictory facts.
Comparing Kerry's presentation on Syria and its accompanying document to Colin Powell's speech to the UN on Iraq, though, one is struck by how little specific evidence was included in the case for the Syrian government's use of chemical weapons. It gives the strong impression of being pieced together from drone surveillance and NSA intercepts, supplemented by Twitter messages and YouTube videos, rather than from on-the-ground reporting or human intelligence. Much of what is offered tries to establish that the victims in Ghouta had been exposed to chemical weaponsa question that indeed had been in some doubt, but had already largely been settled by a report by Doctors Without Borders that reported that thousands of people in the Damascus area had been treated for "neurotoxic symptoms."
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Mint quotes Abu Abdel-Moneim, described as the father of a rebel killed in the chemical weapons attacks, as saying that his son had described carrying unconventional weapons provided by Saudi Arabia to underground storage tunnelsa "tubelike structure" and a "huge gas bottle." A rebel leader identified as J describes the release of toxic weaponry as accidental, saying, "Some of the fighters handled the weapons improperly and set off the explosions." Another rebel referred to as K complains, "When Saudi Prince Bandar gives such weapons to people, he must give them to those who know how to handle and use them."
Of course, independent media accounts are not necessarily more credible than official reportsor vice versa. As with the government white paper, there are gaps in the Mint account; while Abdel-Moneim cites his late son's account of carrying chemical weapons, the rebels quoted do not indicate how they came to know what they say they know about the origin of the weapons. But unlike the government, Mint is honest about the limits of its knowledge: "Some information in this article could not be independently verified," the story admits. "Mint Press News will continue to provide further information and updates."
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http://www.fair.org/blog/2013/09/01/which-syrian-chemical-attack-account-is-more-credible/
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Reported a while back - Saudi labeling.
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)I wouldn't have clue where to start but I will see what find I can elsewhere.
David Krout
(423 posts)/sarc.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts).
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)then how many laws did we break by continuing to send aid and arms and money and etc. to Egypt.
not that it matters of course, since the rule of law was murdered by person or persons unknown over 10 years ago....
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)alarimer
(16,245 posts)Personally, I think out government has been lying to us constantly since before I've been alive. I would no more believe Obama or Kerry than I believe monkeys can write Shakespeare.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)A sign of spin run off the rails. And since both sides are inveterate liars, there is no way to tell without more real evidence.
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)Frankly, calls for the UN to "stop investigations so we can get on with the bombings" are telling.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Not time sensitive. So he's not going for the bums rush.
GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)Once they got there, they wanted them OUT.
By the time Boehner sobers up who knows where we'll be?
JohnyCanuck
(9,922 posts)Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson (Ret) who was the Chief of Staff to US Secretary of State Colin Powell in the runup to GW2 (in which role he helped to pass on the cooked intelligence used as a justification for invading Iraq) tells Cenk at the Young Turks that what he hears from the intelligence community is that the evidence linking the gas attack to Assad is "realy flakey" and he states it is quite possible the gas attack could have been a false flag operation by the oposition or even by the Israelis.
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)Turbineguy
(37,343 posts)it's the version which confirms your opinion on whether or not to attack Syria.
mbperrin
(7,672 posts)way.
Every war we have fought since 1952 has been unjustifiable, expensive, and deadly in human terms. I can't speak for before that - I wasn't born yet.
ABSOLUTELY no more war for the US, anywhere.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)both in the region and around the world, that there aren't scores of different journalists reporting for scores of different news organizations concerning the incident. Surely, there are various reports being published in newspapers all around the region. I can't imagine that the only competing narratives are the US State Department's and Dale Gavlak's report in Mint Press.
(on edit: it just seems incredible to me how much one report by journalist Dale Gavlak published by Mint Press, in which he briefly quotes three people -- one named, two unnamed -- that he interviewed in the street who claim that some rebels accidentally exploded a chemical warhead that was provided by a Saudi has been amplified.
I'm not saying that the quotes are not genuine or that Gavlak fabricated anything, I'm just saying that a handful of street interviews is hardly the gold standard for truth finding.)
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)I'll bet that's why first rate journalists are forced to publish in second or third tier venues.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)What is Al Jazeera reporting from it's regional bureaus? What are the newspapers in Beirut, Lebanon reporting? I've made a small effort to check, but I can't find anything much. Some good reporting in The Guardian from a week and a half ago. I'm not all that conspiracy minded, but...
(on edit: the regional Arabic newspapers seem to be chock full of information, but it's in Arabic.)