UN Probe: 8 Massacres by Syria Regime, 1 by Rebels

[cali]

At least eight massacres have been perpetrated in Syria by President Bashar Assad's regime and supporters and one by rebels over the past year and a half, a U.N. commission said Wednesday.

The commission's probe highlights the worsening pattern of violence against civilians, including executions and hospital bombings, as the government battles to retake lost territory from the rebels, including Islamist foreign fighters who also have carried out war crimes.

"The perpetrators of these violations and crimes, on all sides, act in defiance of international law. They do not fear accountability. Referral to justice is imperative," says the report by the U.N. commission investigating human rights abuses in Syria.

The report updates the commission's work since 2011 to mid-July, stopping short of what the United States says was an Aug. 21 chemical weapons attack on rebel-held areas that killed hundreds of civilians.

Calling Syria a battlefield where armed forces are getting away with large-scale murder, the commission said that in each of the incidents since April 2012 "the intentional mass killing and identity of the perpetrator were confirmed to the commission's evidentiary standards."

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http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/probe-massacres-syria-regime-rebels-20221533

[leveymg]

1. That officially makes the US Government an accessory to war crimes for assisting the rebels.

"The perpetrators of these violations and crimes, on all sides, act in defiance of international law. They do not fear accountability. Referral to justice is imperative," says the report by the U.N. commission investigating human rights abuses in Syria.

Nobody fears accountability because we would rather selectively apply it on our own terms without accepting responsibility ourselves. That goes for the Russians, too.

[cali]

2. that's a stretch. I also find it reflective of a frame of mind

that casts everything as a crime of the U.S. Holding the U.S. accountable for atrocities and injustices it does commit is something I believe in. Jumping to a conclusion because of confirmation bias is something I assuredly do not.

Lord knows, I'm not a rah rah U.S.A. type, but I don't get that as my takeaway from the information. There is nothing in the information available that indicates that a group supported by the U.S. is responsible for these crimes.

These crimes were perpetrated by those on the ground in Syria. It appears that Assad's government is the worst offender, though the U.N. did state there were 9 other mass killings in which they have not yet conclusively identified which parties carried them out. What's clear is that both sides in this ugly civil war are committing war crimes.

[leveymg]

3. "Regime change" makes it sound far more sanitary than it really is. The mass killing was predictable

given the religious differences and history of Syria. When the State Dept. and CIA got into it in early 2011, they knew exactly that something like this might happen, but proceeded to organize and arm the opposition, anyway. That makes those officials in charge responsible for what happened.

I don't think it's a stretch at all - no more so than prosecuting people who plan bank robberies and arm others to carry them out, but manage to keep their own hands clean and calmly sip drinks while the crime is carried out and people are killed.

[cali]

4. we'll have to agree to disagree

You claimed that the U.S. is guilty of being an accessory to a war crime without any evidence to back up that crime.

It's classic confirmation bias.

I also find it passing strange that you focus on the war crimes committed by the rebels while completely ignoring those committed by Assad's regime.

Your take stems from your bias and not the facts. I prefer to wait for facts before coming to a conclusion.

[leveymg]

5. We don't have to draw the same conclusions, but should fully understand the others position.

There is plentiful evidence of US involvement and complicity in organizing the armed insurrection inside Syria. I don't think that my pointing that out makes me biased or the point any less valid. I also hold the Russians and Iranians guilty for their roles in continuing to arm the regime, which, yes, carried out more than its share of atrocities - but, the point here is, both sides are guilty and they and their enablers need to be held accountable, or none should be.

What specific facts need to demonstrated to your satisfaction before we can possibly agree that the USG (along with Russia and other outside powers) are culpable in Syrian war crimes?

[pampango]

6. Atrocities are committed by all sides, but 8 of 9 in this UN report and the "vast majority"

in Amnesty International's analysis are committed by Assad's regime and its supporters.

There are certainly some very bad actors on the rebel side, but there are apparently a whole lot of bad actors on the government side as well.

Here's an excerpt from the Guardian's coverage of the report:

The UN report found evidence of at least eight massacres have been perpetrated by the Assad's regime and its supporters and one by rebels over the past year and a half. The most recent massacre document was by rebels in June in Hatla, near the eastern city of Deir el-Zour. The panel had this account of what happened:

Anti-Government armed groups defeated the outnumbered and outgunned Shia fighters. More than 20 were killed and some were captured. Ten anti-Government fighters were killed during the attack.

During the takeover, anti-Government armed group fighters conducted home invasions, killing and summarily executing (by shooting at close range) many Shia including at least 30 civilians, among them children, women and elderly. Fighters also set civilian houses and a Shia mosque on fire as they shouted sectarian slogans.

The worst massacre documented was committed by government forces in May this year, in Ras al-Nabe near the coastal town of Banias. Here's an excerpt:

As they [pro-government forces] raided the village, civilians were captured and executed. The commission reviewed evidence of families that had been executed, including children, as part of the operation. Testimonies of those who witnessed the aftermath described bodies lying in the streets for days before the inhabitants could safely return to collect them. Some of the bodies appeared to have been hit with heavy or sharp objects, especially in the face and head area. According to reports the numbers killed is between150-200. As in Al-Bayda, there is no indication that the armed opposition was active in the village. The operation did not occur in the context of a military confrontation. Government forces were in full control of the area.

The report criticised states supplying arms to either the Syrian government or the opposition. It said: "There is no military solution to this conflict. Those who supply arms create but an illusion of victory. A political solution founded on the tenets of the final communiqué of the Action Group for Syria (the Geneva communiqué) is the only path to peace.

I hope that war crimes by all sides (including those who supply the arms used by those committing the atrocities) will be prosecuted by the International Criminal Court. This requires authorization from the Security Council but one can hope.