General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMedical Examiner says he has proof Trayvon was not the aggressor, told to shut up about it
Through his high-profile attorney, he claims the medical examiner, state attorney's office, and Sanford Police Department were all biased against Martin.
"He says their general attitude was that he got what he deserved," Attorney Willie Gary told Channel 9.
Gary said Dr. Bao was made to be a scapegoat and was wrongfully fired from the medical examiner's office. He said his client was prepared to offer proof that Martin was not the aggressor.
"He was in essence told to zip his lips. 'Shut up. Don't say those things,'" Gary said.
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/trayvon-martins-medical-examiner-who-testified-geo/nZsH3/
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Duer 157099
(17,742 posts)
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)So, so many low-post-count pieces of shit parroted the "he was on top of him and bashed his head into the sidewalk" talking point how many thousands of times?
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)
monmouth3
(3,871 posts)watch him in action. He is a joy to watch..
Baitball Blogger
(46,709 posts)
brush
(53,778 posts)The whole medical examiner, state attorney's office, and Sanford Police Department apparatus is going to be exposed now.
Bao's attorney, Willie Gary, is the Johnny Cochran of that region and has won many huge cases against big corporations.
The inexplicable absence of pertinent questions to Bao, the lack of witness prep (Rachel Jantel), the non-challenge of the defense's "dummy" demo will all be brought out and into question by this brilliant lawyer.
They've got their nerve firing Bao, he wasn't the one doing a purposefully poor job of prosecution. I still remember when that smiling State Attorney did her "Sunset Boulevard" close-up after the trial with her thick make-up freshly done.
I kept wondering what is there to smile about, you just lost the highest profile case in years?
It seems that was the intent. She was smiling because she knew she had successfully done her job to not upset the racial status quo in that part of Flori-duh.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)
freshwest
(53,661 posts)I hate to delve into the evil I saw represented throughout the entire case. It was a show trial with Travyon in the role of the accused, complete with laughing hyenas and the lowest form of humanity on display. From start to finish. Such depravity is frightening.
Cha
(297,240 posts)grateful this is coming out now.. can you imagine!? Imagine what Trayvon's loved ones are feeling right about now. 
freshwest
(53,661 posts)
Mira
(22,380 posts)gopiscrap
(23,761 posts)and it was all brought to you by the big money of the NRA, ALEC and other wealthy gun nut asshole fucks!
jwirr
(39,215 posts)these bigoted idiots who withheld evidence in the murder case? So GZ got off - but they should not.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)It's getting harder to nail the crooks down in the digital age. They just keep revising the data. Paper trails are best, in ballots and other things, and so are video and audio recordings. But there may not be one.
I've seen some groups refuse to make any kind of record of any type, insisting nothing be recorded or not writing it down. The want to escape being held accountable.
All the better for them to say whatever was done, said or agreed to, never happened. Then comes the 'Who, us? you're crazy, we'd never do or say that' goatrope.
It's maddening trying to nail crooks down. Investigations are getting harder to do.
gopiscrap
(23,761 posts)that the case was sandbagged isn't there some way (because of corruption etc) that they could go after Zimmy again. Not to mention after this revelation, I would hope the DoJ goes after Zimmy with a vengeance!
sir pball
(4,742 posts)It is theoretically possible (I think) for there to be a Federal case of denial of civil rights period, but a much easier and more commonly made case is deprivation of civil rights "under color of law". The former basically required Zimmy to have been wearing a white hood when he did it, but the latter looks to be shaping up quite well against the Sanford PD et al.
gopiscrap
(23,761 posts)reminded me of sham trials in MS and AL during the 60's
PorridgeGun
(80 posts)The most likely is that the prosecutor not asking Bao specifically about this "proof" is far from inexplicable. The most likely cause is that the prosecutors believed the statement he was going to make would, like so many of their other witnesses, end up making the prosecution look even more shambolic that it did already.
Prosecutors who have an expert witness who wants to give an opinion not directly supported by strong forensic evidence have to think about what might happen to that witness and the credibility of the rest of their case while under hostile cross-examination.
And as for the "top to bottom conspiracy" aspect of your post... el oh el. If you recall, the only reason Zimmerman was charged with 2nd degree murder (as the anti-Z nuts were shrieking for at the time) was that the top prosecutor, noted for being harsh and politically opportunistic, decided to ride the public outrage.
Sorry, but when people are conspiring to let someone walk they don't override the decisions of local investigators to not charge, (or at best with manslaughter) and change them with 2nd degree murder. They also don't try to let people walk by arguing at the end of the trial manslaughter should be put back on the table because even they had come to realise that the 2nd degree murder case existed (and continues to exist) only the imaginations of anti-Z fanatics.
You still can't accept that Z was acquitted unanimously because he was not guilty of anything other than trying to see where the kid was going when he ran off behind a housing block -- an action which, I might add, is not stalking by any remotely sane definition of the term -- and then being confronted by an understandably upset Trayvon as he arrived back at his car.
As soon as TM is on top and Z is on the ground getting punched up, its game over, shooting justified, even without taking SYG into account.
brush
(53,778 posts)PorridgeGun is it? This is what I have to say to you. Only an idiot would believe zimmerman's statement that he was head bashed onto concrete 20-30 times without suffering a concussion, or a fractured skull, or a hematoma, or being knock cold, or being killed even.
The naivety, or is it racism, of believing that someone just gets up and walks away from that kind of head trauma (after killing a teen of course) is astounding. You have to know better than that cock and bull crapola. And the only treatment he needed from all of that was a band-aid for a couple of "scratches" on the back of his head. Talk about gullible!
Here's a link of someone that hit their head on concrete just ONCE. If you have the nerve to view it, get back to me and see if you still believe that lying killer.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2362930/Man-knocked-ranting-racist-New-York-drinker-claiming-Goldman-Sachs-employee-tried-HELP-first.html
PorridgeGun
(80 posts)GZ had bleeding contusions on the back of his head from hitting the concrete sidewalk. He was bleeding from his nose and likely had a closed fracture, along with numerous other minor lacerations. UNderstand?
Zimmerman was the only one with injuries consistent with being physical assaulted, get it?
There was not a shred of evidence that Trayvon had started out as the victim of Zimmermans aggressions, not even the sort of light bruising that would result from a hard shove or the dna under the fingernails and on the hands that commonly results from defensive parry. Are you with me so far?
And yes, I know, there are people stupid enough to believe that Trayvon not having Z's DNA under his nails goes against Zimmerman, but we understand differently now, don't we?
Ohh.. someone hit their head on the concrete just once and got knocked cold? Oh wait, no, it has nothing to do with that. He was knocked senseless by the first punch and likely fell to the ground limp. That certainly will ring your bell, but it has about as much to do with the Zimmerman case as the particulars of Mike Tysons last fight.
Next you'll be telling me about the guy that died after being hit by one punch, so how could zimmerman even have been alive to fire the shot? OMG! VAMPIRE!
brush
(53,778 posts)Last edited Sat Sep 14, 2013, 10:56 PM - Edit history (1)
Keep believing that lying killer. Guess you haven't seen the video of the thuggish, aggressive behavior he just displayed against his own wife by grabbing her iPad and destroying it before uncaringly discarding it to the ground? He also punched her father.
That's who you've expended all this energy supporting? Good God!
And about the link I sent, the racist punk on it was slugged but was knocked cold by hitting his head on the concrete. It says that right in the report. Got that?
And by the way, 'ol zimmy also claimed to have been punched in the face 35-45 times — what does that do to your flimsy argument that the guy in the link was "knocked senseless by the first punch and likely fell to the ground limp?" You claim one punch knocked that guy out, yet your must-be-superman zimmerman was punched 35-45 times without getting knock out? Remember zimmy claimed he suffered those 35-45 blows, and the head bashes without losing consciousness. Give me a break!
After 20-30 head bashes and 35-45 punches to the face he should have been a physical wreck who had to be rushed to nearest ER, instead of being able to calmly walk under his own power to the police cruiser with little evidence of being in a life and death struggle save for a few scratches on his nose and the back of his head, treated with BAND-AIDS only. Give me a break AGAIN!
Your arguments in support of that lying killer don't stand up. Seems like your biases have clouded your judgment and you don't want to admit it.
Are you an adult? You can't possibly believe all those lies by zimmerman.
7962
(11,841 posts)brush
(53,778 posts). . . heads hitting concrete result in very serious injuries, even death, as with your post.
Proving once again that zimmerman is a lying thug to say that he was head bashed 20-30 times onto concrete.
And I have to say again, anyone foolish enough to believe that, like that Flori-duh jury, and PorridgeGun, the poster we're responding to, need a serious lesson in critical thinking because their's is sadly lacking.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)To a gun nut, that's like a red cape to a bull.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)if he had told what was going on long before this.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)Doing so would have cost him his job, while I do wish he would have made that sacrifice I can also fully understand why he did not. It is hard for people to say the right thing sometimes when the income they depend on to feed their family requires them to stay quiet.
Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #8)
Name removed Message auto-removed
pintobean
(18,101 posts)who? 
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)The armed asshole stalked and killed an unarmed kid who had a legal right to be where he was, and the racist bastards in that town covered it up.
btw - ronnie r. was a fucking thief and a coward.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)We're infested! 
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)
DanTex
(20,709 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)uppityperson
(115,677 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)He may have been required to appeal the decision through administrative means within the government first.
Here are the regulations that apply when a Florida employee appeals based on the relevant grounds here:
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0100-0199/0112/Sections/0112.31895.html
I'm not going to look up all the law, but the fact that he filed now does not make his claim questionable at all. In fact, he filed his lawsuit very quickly.
The fact is that his lawsuit may, if allowed to proceed and depending on Florida procedures in these cases, allow a court to scrutinize Zimmerman's testimony.
Trayvon Martin may have been only one innocent person killed in such a brutal ambush on the streets of America, but his case symbolizes all of the others.
Thou shalt not kill. Goes for everyone. We cannot have a safe, creative society in which we can solve the serious problems we will be facing in the coming years if fools like George Zimmerman are allowed to carry and use guns to kill innocent kids on our streets.
Who are we to go around trying to make the world safe for democracy with drones and machine guns and jet planes and bombs if we can't even make our suburban streets safe for our kids?
Roland99
(53,342 posts)joeybee12
(56,177 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,709 posts)But, I don't see how successful replacements will be, unless there is an understanding of what is going on in the agency that needs to be replaced.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)There might be some change at first, but I assume the attiitudes and the way the place is run has history and plenty of people who want it to stay the way it is.
Baitball Blogger
(46,709 posts)legal malpractice in public government. My guess is that at least one of the lawyers is still hoping to become a candidate to the state Supreme Court. When you're protecting a secret of that caliber, there's a lot of people that need to be kept quiet and happy. You can only do that by jumping process.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)But it was clear she had higher ambitions...she kept saying it wasn't about race, but about boundaries...talk about a cop out.
Baitball Blogger
(46,709 posts)Too many do that, around here, but usually there isn't a spotlight on them when it happens.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)You want corruption? Follow the source. The Fraud Governor (up for re-election) was pressured to appoint a Special Prosecutor.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)got run out of spring baseball practice in Sanford(that county)1948ish-trayvon Martin shot killed while unarmed, coming from the store-2013, 60 years+, nah, county won't change because the attitude is 1948ish same.
JustAnotherGen
(31,823 posts) *sigh*Baitball Blogger
(46,709 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,823 posts)How effective it will be . . . I don't know. Even right here at DU you have folks who will loudly beat a drum to impeach Obama, destroy the NSA, and believe drones are the worst murder in the world . . . But think Trayvon Martin's Civil Rights should be less important to Holder - who they also want gone. Doesn't matter to the far left anymore than it does the center right to libertarians.
That said - see response down thread. Dr. Bao is not doing this JUST out of the kindness of his heart - he's been fired. There's a link to a three page article that focuses on his lawsuit.
Baitball Blogger
(46,709 posts)You have to prove damages before you can file a lawsuit. When they fired him they gave him a platform to speak from.
gvstn
(2,805 posts)It wasn't right that he got away with murder but I think Federal charges would be double jeopardy. Not in a technical sense but in a common sense way. He got lucky, whether through corruption or incompetence but IMHO, he correctly goes free after the jury decided his fate.
If Florida had refused to bring charges then the Justice Department should have gotten involved, but since Florida did prosecute (in name only) the Justice Department shouldn't get involved unless they can prove corruption on the state level.
Again, my personal idea of justice is one trial not two.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)The prosecution never seriously questioned or presented evidence that questioned Zimmerman's self-serving statements to the police. It would be interesting to find out whether such evidence really existed. I look forward to seeing this claim heard. I'm hoping that this issue about who was on top might be studied and discussed in scientific terms. That should have happened in the first trial. A miscarriage of justice is a miscarriage of justice. I don't think it very likely that the outcome would change the outcome of Zimmerman's trial. This would be a civil case. The burden of proof is less demanding for one thing. But it would be good to have this information out there. It would put future prosecutors on notice that sloppy prosecutions for perhaps political purposes will not be tolerated in the US.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)is the entire point of this thread.
gvstn
(2,805 posts)If threats were made you have corruption. If the prosecutors just did a crappy job even on purpose you don't have corruption. They could be fired but they weren't necessarily doing anything illegal.
Look at the issue with the gun in the recent incident. O'Mara says there was definitely a gun present. The cops say, "there was no gun". They can say that because they didn't search the car. They can declare that no gun was found as an absolute fact. They made a conscious choice not to find evidence of the gun. Is that corruption? Bad police work? A judgement call?
If they were suspended for such an action while it was reviewed, I can guarantee that they would not be found "corrupt" by any review board. They could be let go because the State didn't like their job performance but they didn't actually do anything illegal.
So, unless the prosecution threatened witnesses and it can be proven then the Justice department should not get involved.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)incompetence to me. It was a very old form of corruption - bigotry.
Baitball Blogger
(46,709 posts)" If the prosecutors just did a crappy job even on purpose you don't have corruption."
2naSalit
(86,616 posts)if they did a crappy job on purpose, THAT IS corruption plain as day.
JustAnotherGen
(31,823 posts)This is a Civil Rights action - and IF Dr. Bao proves to be truthful - it goes right up to the District Attorney. It would fun to see that vapid, ditzy, twinkie sitting her ass in the defendants chair in a civil case. 
Oh - and I'd like to think of it just like the OJ Simpson case. . . .
And - he really needs to stay away from black men. Seriously. He was found 'innocent' - but he can't go near a single member of my family. He's not good enough to be around us.
I have a RIGHT to think he's too wet to step on and too low to kick just like I think that about Sarah Palin. He's no different to me than that worthless person. Or Ted Cruz. Or - you get my point right?
And you have to understand that ALL people don't have to have the EXACT same opinion. The world would suck hairy balls if we ALL had to think the exact same thing.
Baitball Blogger
(46,709 posts)That's two.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)If Dr. Bao is right; that is, if they approached this case with racial bias and believed that Trayvon "got what he deserved," then it may help the civil case.
On the other hand, Dr. Bao is just as guilty. He got on the stand and lied. He doesn't get away with that. His ass should be under the jail for perjury.
lolly
(3,248 posts)He was never asked the question he expected.
If you witnessed a murder, and the prosecutor asked you questions about what you were wearing that day and whether the roses at the crime scene were red or pink, but never asked you about the murder, are you lying if you never said you saw the murder?
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)in the same court of law for the same crime. In other words, Zimmerman cannot be tried again in criminal court even if he comes out and admits that he killed Trayvon Martin in cold blood. Even if there is irrefutable evidence that Dr. Bao brings forth, Zimmerman cannot be tried again in CRIMINAL court. There cannot be a mistrial declared. None of that, which is beyond fucked up!!
However, Zimmerman and that State of Florida can be sued in CIVIL court for wrongful death. He can also be charged at the FEDERAL level for violating Martin's CIVIL rights. That is NOT double jeopardy.
spin
(17,493 posts)A Civil Suit Could Make Zimmerman Pay — or Could Backfire
In the end, "Stand your ground" played a small role in George Zimmerman's acquittal, but it could pose a big risk to Trayvon Martin's family if they pursue a civil trial
By Adam Cohen @adamscohenJuly 16, 2013422 Comments
***snip***
There are some good reasons to believe a civil suit could win, even after prosecutors struck out. Civil trials have a lower standard of proof than criminal trials. Instead of having to establish guilt “beyond a reasonable doubt” — a particularly hard threshold to meet in a homicide case with few witnesses and little hard physical evidence — in a civil case, the Martin family would only have to prove it was more likely than not that Zimmerman’s negligence caused Martin’s death.
There would also be a new jury — perhaps one chosen in a different jurisdiction. Some trial watchers thought the jury that heard Zimmerman’s case was a good one for the defense — not least because it was nearly all white. The next jury might see the encounter between Zimmerman and Martin very differently. Another big difference: in a civil case, Zimmerman would likely have to testify. He chose not to take the stand in the criminal case — a right protected by the Fifth Amendment — and that seems to have been a smart move. At a civil trial, lawyers could cross-examine Zimmerman about the details, and inconsistencies, of his account of the shooting.
But for all of the potential upside, there would also be risks for Martin’s family in suing. First, while money may not be their primary motivation, Zimmerman does not seem to have millions of dollars lying around to pay a civil-damages award. There have been widespread predictions that in the next few years he will be richly rewarded with book deals and speaking fees — this is America, after all — but he likely also has some big legal bills to pay.
The bigger threat to Martin’s family would be Florida’s “Stand your ground” law, which wound up playing a small role in the criminal trial. Under the law, if Martin’s family sued, Zimmerman would be entitled to a hearing at which he would be given a chance to show that he used deadly force only because he was in reasonable fear of death or serious injury. He skipped that step before the criminal trial, but he would no doubt take it if he were sued. And if Zimmerman won his “Stand your ground” hearing, he would not only get the civil suit thrown out, but the law also says that whoever sued him would have to pay him attorneys fees, expenses and compensation for any loss of income resulting from the proceedings. That would be a bitter pill for the family to swallow: the man who shot their son to death beating the criminal charges, getting the civil lawsuit dismissed — and then presenting them with a bill....emphasis added
Read more: http://ideas.time.com/2013/07/16/a-civil-suit-could-make-zimmerman-pay-or-could-backfire/#ixzz2ej9PkcvG
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)performing the autopsy but now he's saying that not did he perform the autopsy, he has proof that Trayvon was not the aggressor. His entire testimony was a lie. His testimony wasn't about witnessing a murder. He's the Examiner. You're so busy defending Zimmerman. Learn the facts first!!!
lolly
(3,248 posts)Which, admittedly, got lost in the nesting.
But your response is way off base. Check around before making assumptions about other posts or posters.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)stand. He admits it. You suggested that he didn't. I'm saying that HE DID!!!!!
Recursion
(56,582 posts)If you have two contradictory statements, it's not necessarily the first one that's a lie (though for that matter both could be lies).
He's also been fired since, you might want to keep in mind.
wryter2000
(46,045 posts)The federal charge would be for depriving Trayvon of his civil rights. Not a capital crime, of course, but it would carry prison time.
Gothmog
(145,242 posts)If this tip is true, it could help the Feds make the decision to charge Zimmerman. Technically, there is no double jeopardy because Zimmerman would be charged with a violation of Trayon Martin's civil rights and not for murder or manslaughter. The law is well established in this area.
The Department of Justice does not want to bring a case that merely retries the same issues as the first case and this story is the type of evidence that could help the Feds to take on this case.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)For all we know, he was threatened with jail for not going according to the rule of law - administered in this case by those who have no respect for law, justice, or human life. That place is like a mob-run town - lucky to get out alive. I'll bet he's moved away and won't put himself at risk of their vengeance.
JustAnotherGen
(31,823 posts)And who knows . . . maybe he will. 
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)There was no need to threaten him--just careful questioning designed to elicit only those parts of the picture that the prosecutors wanted to hear. In this case, those were the same parts that the defense wanted to hear, so the normal process of cross-examination was short-circuited.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Can't wait for the usual crowd to show up and try spinning this...
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)Zimmerman's defense and don't support any form of gun control.
Nine
(1,741 posts)With most stories about people doing evil or foolish things with guns, what you hear from the anti-gun control crowd is, "Well that person wasn't a responsible gun owner." Or, "That person wasn't a law-abiding gun owner." Basically the No True Scotsman logical fallacy. They could have done the same with Zimmerman, and maybe some of them did. But I think as a whole, they let their racism get the better of them. From the start, I never saw any other reason for wanting to embrace Zimmerman. Even Jeb Bush seemed to be wanting to distance from Zimmerman early on, saying that SYG didn't apply in his case (if I remember correctly). Funny that Jeb had more sense on this than the rank and file.
Baitball Blogger
(46,709 posts)
the only people who could truly defend Zimmerman were other paranoid gun humping racists cowards
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)including that guy who has burned through about 100 sockpuppet accounts, but still always shows up in Zimmerman threads using a fresh name (but the same old dull talking points and writing style that easily outs him)
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)can anything be done to reverse the verdict?
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)but the family could in theory sue the state for it's gross unprofessionalism...
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)I hope the family will have a big win in case they pursue that suit.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)There could however be some serious lawsuits, it would make a civil suit against Zimmerman much easier to win and the people involved in the coverup could face sanctions as well.
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)should have more than sanctions - they should lose their jobs. They are in important positions of public trust and they failed at their jobs miserably.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)It is certainly very likely that if this lawsuit moves forward some of them will lose their jobs over this, it is not impossible some could even face criminal charges (although unfortunately I think that is less likely even though they do deserve it).
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)The government can't keep trying you for the same crime.
robinlynne
(15,481 posts)
Myrina
(12,296 posts)n/t
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)grow up in the US and not know that a Not Guilty verdict is the END of the legal process against someone and they cannot be touched for the crime ever again.
I learned this in HS civics class, but it wasn't news to me then.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)There aren't civics classes anymore. Gets in the way of all the high-stakes testing.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)Although with the internet, there's really no excuse.
Tien1985
(920 posts)What you don't know. It's hard to look something up on the net if you have no idea it exists.
There wasn't a civics class in my high school, but I remember watching a movie about double jepordy when I was a kid. Otherwise, I'm not certain I would've known about it either.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Does that sentiment also apply to civility too?
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"No wonder people are so utterly clueless about their rights and the law..." Or how to perform a lung transplant also.
Although with the internet, there's really no excuse. 
TheDeputy
(224 posts)The bottom line is that it was a bad case. I can't tell you what really happened. I do know that there wasn't enough evidence to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. Beyond a reasonable doubt is a huge standard. Basically, would you bet your home on it? Is the evidence so persuasive that you would gamble your house on it? If no, the verdict must be not guilty.
So, what happened? I don't know for sure. I do know that it is better that a guilty man go free than an innocent man go to prison.
Edit for typos.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Doesn't this ever get old for you?
bobduca
(1,763 posts)the morning dew is still covering his fuzzy troll hair.
JustAnotherGen
(31,823 posts)
JustAnotherGen
(31,823 posts)
I wonder if its the same few people over and over again? TheDeputy
(224 posts)Frankly, I investigate crimes for a living. My job is to dispassionately look at the evidence and facts to find out what happened. The facts and evidence suggest a charge of murder. However they didn't prove it. There is a huge difference. Probable cause is all it takes to charge somebody. Probable cause is essentially "is it more likely than not that a crime happened?" It was a bad case, from the prosecution point of view. Not enough evidence.
JustAnotherGen
(31,823 posts)Who were you the last time you joined? Your bio says precisely what you do for a living and that you joined today.
Baitball Blogger
(46,709 posts)Surely if you have investigated crimes you know that the integrity of the evidence is only as good as the integrity of the people who handle it.
There are all sorts of words that can describe government agencies in Seminole County. I would not put "integrity" on the top of that list. In fact, from my point of view, it wouldn't even make the list. That's because their priority is to keep their social networks happy. And their social networks are, basically, anti-government.
Logical
(22,457 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,823 posts)Had let Trayvon go free than to send an innocent man to his death.
Do you?
Because he was innocent you know. There is absolutely NO evidence that Trayvon was breaking and entering into homes that evening, casing them, or trying to commit home invasions. Zimmerman made a decision to be 'six shooting sheriff, detective, swat team, judge, jury and executioner.
You'll get less flack if you agree that Trayvon Martin on THAT night - that specific night - was COMPLETELY INNOCENT UNTIL George Zimmerman started shit to try and prove his penis isn't an inch long.
maddezmom
(135,060 posts)
Baitball Blogger
(46,709 posts)Precisely
(358 posts)Is that the measure of justice these days?
brush
(53,778 posts)He said that Bao was just waiting for the prosecutor to ask him the pertinent question he needed to scientifically show that there was no way Martin was the aggressor on top of zimmerman.
The question never came. If Bao had been allowed to show that zimmerman was the aggressor that would have blown the defense's whole case of zimmy being the "victim" of the thug Martin out of the water, which would have lead to a guilty verdict.
The prosecutor will now have to explain the inexplicable absence of pertinent questions to Bao, the lack of witness prep (Rachel Jantel), the non-challenge of the defense's "dummy" demo, et al.
Willy Gary is no joke. He's a brilliant attorney and I know the prosecutor, the police dept. and the state attorney are all shaking in their boots now because it's all going to come out — and someone/s is going to get fired.
King_Klonopin
(1,306 posts)Since being acquitted, GZ's behavior is anything but that of an innocent man.
He's an angry, aggressive little rat.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)That's hardly reasonable. But go ahead and defend your gun humping friend. We've got your number.
robinlynne
(15,481 posts)
WCLinolVir
(951 posts)
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)statement to the police into the evidence. They did it without any opportunity to cross-examine him about his statements. Some DUers noted several contradictions between his statements and the obvious facts of the case. And here we have a witness who claims he was not given the opportunity to present a theory and presumably evidence suggesting that Zimmerman's statement was a tall tale, a lie.
That would mean that the prosecutors on behalf of the People of Florida never confronted the witness against them. While prosecutors enjoy the discretion to manage their case as they will, should that allegation be found to be true, then the prosecutors have a lot of questions to answer. We shall see.
But it is better that a guilty man go free than that an innocent man go to prison. There i agree.
But Trayvon Martin was not doing anything to deserve being shot down just as he was beginning his life. The guilt in killing an innocent, young kid like that is really heavy, really dark, really awful.
The questions that some have about the Martin/Zimmerman case concern corruption in the prosecution of Zimmerman. It would not be corruption motivated by financial but rather perhaps by political gain. Was there a bias in favor of Zimmerman in the prosecutors' office? It is a legitimate question in my opinion. I don't know what the answer is, but I do believe that when a person accepts the honor of the public office of a prosecutor, he or she has a duty to set aside his or her own political ambitions. Too often the prosecutor's office is viewed by the person holding it as a stepping stone to some higher office. In my opinion that can cause a conflict of influence that is detrimental to our justice system.
And I must add that this is the SECOND time this week that we have learned about facts that might have been relevant to determining Zimmerman's guilt or innocence and that the judge might have let into evidence had she been asked. Additional allegations about the domestic argument prior to the shooting -- pretty serious if Zimmerman's wife spent the night at her father's house -- could have provided a motive for Zimmerman's action that had nothing to do with Trayvon Martin. Would have been hard to get that information in in my opinion, but might have given the prosecutors and the rest of the world more confidence in the prosecutors' case.
It certainly increases my suspicion that Zimmerman was loaded for bear that night.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)It means a doubt a reasonable person might have. It has nothing to do with gambling houses.
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)The recording of the 911 call with Trayvon pleading for his life until the instant he is shot by Zim should have been plenty.
How many juries get an audio recording of the victim made during their own murder?
pintobean
(18,101 posts)that was presented at trial. If there was, it would have been a slam dunk conviction.
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)Here is the short version
7962
(11,841 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)evidence that was deliberately withheld from the jury. You can see the cover-up here?
It's right there in front of your eyes!! Open your eyes!!!!!!
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)a difference in the verdict. If that's not corruption, and abuse of the legal system, then I don't know what is.
niyad
(113,306 posts)lolly
(3,248 posts)The coroner claims he DID have the evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Martin could not have been on top (and therefore the aggressor) as Zimmerman claimed.
But he was never asked to provide that evidence by the prosecutor.
If he's right, then yes, we do know. And we know that the prosecutor sandbagged the case.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)zimpig was a guilty man who was 'free' the minute he pulled the trigger on Trayvon Martin and stood there and watched him squirm in his death throes and bleed out.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)" than an innocent man go to prison...."
Or get shot on the way home from a convenience store?
Baitball Blogger
(46,709 posts)This is the prevailing belief around here. Law enforcement and even local government will game their own process in order to bring the results that would appeal to their minions.
Without a national spotlight on this county and its municipalities, a lot of wrong-minded thinking is allowed to take hold without challenge. Believe me, once it gets out in the open, they will change their tune.
Bravo Dr. Bao!
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,823 posts)
LiberalFighter
(50,928 posts)Justice is only justice when it is followed. When the system is gamed they better beware of it happening to them. People are just too stupid.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,928 posts)From what I saw regarding the GZ incident the past few days leaves me to belief that law enforcement there only serve those they want to protect or have killed. When GZ attorney states that there was a gun during the domestic dispute and the police fail to check it out that indicates in my mind there is corruption on their part.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)...out of that area.
Seems like the citizens need protection from the police
LiberalFighter
(50,928 posts)it appears that the citizens need protection from the citizens that get all emotional because of their racism. Also, I'm not too sure about protection being possible from the police when they aren't interested in treating everyone fairly.
Baitball Blogger
(46,709 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,362 posts)Martin's civil rights were violated.
Thanks for the thread, Bjorn Against.
Little Star
(17,055 posts)DeschutesRiver
(2,354 posts)Duer 157099
(17,742 posts)I'm wracking my brain for what this might be. What physical evidence on TM's body could prove what Bao is proposing?
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)I suspect we will get more details as to what that means when the lawsuit moves forward.
Duer 157099
(17,742 posts)That's what I'm wondering
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)We will probably get the specifics as the case moves forward.
Duer 157099
(17,742 posts)Or something to do with the direction of blood flow? Or entry/exit wound sizes?
I realize we'll get more info but that won't preclude me from guessing now, which is what I was asking. 
JustAnotherGen
(31,823 posts)*He now wants to sue his former employer for ethnic discrimination and wrongful termination - per his atty.
*Officials expected him to resign - when he did not they fired him.
*His attorney says the county was firing him for poor communication skills.
*His last (annual?) evaluation - Bao received a score of 87 which placed him in the “Exceeds Expectations” range of 80 to 95.
“Dr. Bao is thorough in his casework and formulates logical and defensible cause of death opinions; researches the literature as needed on unusual findings,” the evaluation states.
It also states that at the time Bao had not yet had any cases go to trial locally but that he routinely explained his findings to law enforcement and attorneys.
Swift said that, since the firing, attorneys have filed a complaint with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission on Bao’s behalf claiming ethnic discrimination and wrongful termination. Complaint documents were not available Tuesday
There are three pages at the link - it's well worth the read!
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,823 posts)How quickly he went from leading to fire-able? I've never had an employee drop that quick.
Not in a year. And even then - there would be mitigating circumstances . . . few times have been life and death or health issues.
You don't fire your stars. You give them time to get back on their game and they go back to their 'leading' evaluation.
wercal
(1,370 posts)If he was about to 'blow the case wide open'....what stops him from doing that now?
N-o-t-h-i-n-g.
So why hasn't he?
Dr. Bao will get a settlement, because he was fired for 'bad communication skills'.
But his lawsuit will not 'break open the case'.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I imagine your faith in your powers of prophecy is quite strong.
wercal
(1,370 posts)Every time somebody has a 'bombshell'....but you've just got to wait.....they've got nothing.
More than once people have come forward with 'bombshell information' about Michelle Obama's dissertation...but nothing ever came out did it?
Every few months, Glenn Beck tells his audience that they better tune in on a certain day, because he's got earth-shattering information. He never does.
Occasionally Donald Trump calls a press conference to announce an announcement...about an announcement...that blah blah birth certificate...and...nothing.
Why would I expect BAO to be any different?
Think about it - he's got 'scientific evidence' that proves Martin could not have been on top of Zimmerman? From a medical examiner's point of view? The angle of the bullet was already brought out in the trial...so what other amazing 'scientific evidence' could he possibly have? If he had anything, he would have already unveiled it - and quite frankly that unveiling should have been in his report - and it wasn't. BAO's got nothing like Trump's got nothing.
Remember the Wendy's commercials from the '80s...the old lady said 'Show me the beef!'. Trump can't. BAO can't.
Just for shits and giggles, I went to Youtube and watched some of BAO's testimony. He was a train wreck. I'm stunned that anybody would hitch their wagon to him.
He'll get some money, because he was fired improperly (anti-Chinese bias)...but bringing up his 'secret scientific evidence' is just bluster meant to gain him support by tying his plight to Martin. More people should be pissed and offended by that, quite frankly, instead of lining up behind him in support.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)If so, if he lied or materially misrepresented fact in court proceedings, even under orders, that opens him up to being charged with perjury or OOJ.
He'd better have a good lawyer if he's alleging that his testimony was tainted.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)What lie are you alleging he told under oath? He can't answer questions that he does not get asked.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Friend, not foe.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Remembering this guy's testimony, he was a horrible witness.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)The prosecution failed to ask him the relevant questions so he was never able to present his evidence in trial, he will present it in his lawsuit however.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Maybe he threw them off when he changed his opinions a few days before his testimony.
Duer 157099
(17,742 posts)certain things? There's no doubt that something was really off about how he was testifying, but this might be the simplest explanation--that he had info that he was trying to slip in that he knew they didn't want revealed?
pintobean
(18,101 posts)because he couldn't remember anything about the autopsy. Was this incriminating evidence in those notes, the autopsy report, or disclosed in deposition? Maybe it was one of the opinions he changed just before testifying, and prosecutors had no idea.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)case. Let's see what he has to say before calling him a horrible witness. Maybe his job was on the line and he knew it.
markiv
(1,489 posts)he wants to profit from shading a deposition against the truth?
Trayvon Martin's parents should be sueing HIM and his employer for justice denied
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)He was never given the opportunity to present his evidence in court, he is not allowed to answer a question that is not asked of him.
markiv
(1,489 posts)an ME is an officer of the court, not a hapless bystander
if an ME fails to get his beliefs into a deposition, that's HIS failure
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)Witnesses are not allowed to bring up topics that they are not asked about specifically, if he had tried to bring up the topic on his own there would have been an immediate objection and it would have been sustained.
markiv
(1,489 posts)i simply do not believe there was NO opportunity for the ME to interject his beliefs about the cause of death, which would have been the sole topic of the deposition
my read of this was that he 'played ball', and wants to profit now that he's fired
Baitball Blogger
(46,709 posts)markiv
(1,489 posts)you've worked in an ME's office?
Baitball Blogger
(46,709 posts)he believed was wrong. I also have a local case where someone sued for wrongful firing when they quickly dismissed him for responding to a Public Records request.
Everything that is happening to Dr. Bao fits the profile.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)That was a crucial and very basic question which he could have offered scientific evidence to show, he was never asked the question. And no, there is no opportunity to answer a question you are not asked in court, judges do not allow that.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)"I have no fact, I have zero opinion."
Question and answer begins at the 42:23 mark.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)or he is lying now to play the victim for being fired.
"He says their general attitude was that he got what he deserved," Attorney Willie Gary told Channel 9.
Gary said Dr. Bao was made to be a scapegoat and was wrongfully fired from the medical examiner's office. He said his client was prepared to offer proof that Martin was not the aggressor.
"He was in essence told to zip his lips. 'Shut up. Don't say those things,'" Gary said.
Gary said prosecutors never asked Dr. Bao a question crucial to their case.
"He wanted a question that would have allowed him to explain to the jury with scientific evidence how there was no way Trayvon Martin could have been on top of George Zimmerman," Gary said.
Gary said that question never came.
Since Dr Bao's current claim contradicts other evidence presented in the case, including the testimony from the closest eye witness, it's not difficult to guess why Dr Bao is making his current claim.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)And, now he says he wasn't even asked the question. It's in the court records. I remember watching that live.
mzmolly
(50,992 posts)be sure who was on top. He also didn't see the shooting as the "second closest eyewitness" did.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)Last edited Sun Sep 15, 2013, 10:12 PM - Edit history (1)
GZ had injuries to the back of his head.
A cop testified at trial that the back of GZ was wet and covered in grass: http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv=-Eo9rDqUUoE
Here's an interview conducted the day after Trayvon's death with the closest witness: John Good. It completely supports the defense's case, though of course it doesn't prove what led up to the assault against GZ: http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv=DfN7-2ErEk4
mzmolly
(50,992 posts)It's likely they were in different positions, at various times.
Good also said he couldn't be sure who was on top. There are several witnesses who said that Zimmerman climbed up off Trayvon's body immediately after he murdered him.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)which is old enough to join the military. TM was at a more likely age to commit violence than GZ and there's evidence that TM had engaged in recent violence. He wasn't a child.
The best evidence available is that it was self defense since the only real evidence is TM assaulted GZ. There is no other evidence. Plus, it appears that it was TM that directly confronted GZ. GZ keys were on the ground from the apparent surprise attack. GZ wasn't far from his truck. TM had plenty of time to reach his house before the assault. People can't go around assaulting fellow citizens, even if they behaved imperfectly. That is a serious crime.
Too many people have a faith-based belief that GZ is guilty based on how the story was initially framed by TM's team. Much of what they claimed turned out to be deliberate misinformation, which the media promoted. That's not fair for a potential defendant. Even weak-minded gun nuts deserve to be treated fairly.
mzmolly
(50,992 posts)is a child. A child was screaming for help on the 911 tapes. Witnesses also say a child cried out for help. One such witness lived across from "John" and is a gym teacher. She is very familiar with the cries of teen-aged CHILDREN.
I believe GZ is guilty because I've read the evidence against him. I believe that Trayvon Martin was on his way home from candy errand and was not out looking for trouble. < I remember when Zimmerman supporters claimed the Skittles run, was untrue - too.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)The accent in the voice matches GZ, to my ears. TM's father originally said it didn't sound like his son, and John Good was the only witness that actually saw the assault from outside and he said it was GZ that was screaming. It was GZ that was screaming.
That is the only thing that makes since it was GZ on the bottom getting beat down. It certainly is impossible to find GZ guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, based on the very weak evidence. The jury is getting an unfairly bad rap around here.
mzmolly
(50,992 posts)What voice did you listen to?
TM's father denied saying it didn't sound like his son, remember? This was the assertion of cops who wanted an excuse for not pursuing Zimmerman in the first place. Cops, who were conned by the killer.
"John" did not see the faces and doesn't know who was screaming. John also said that someone was using MMA style moves that night and that person was on top. John also said someone was in a white shirt and the person with a white shirt was on the bottom. No one had a white shirt on.
Who studied MMA fighting for a year, again? The guy who forgot how to throw a punch, until he battered his elderly father in law last week?
Seems he suddenly found his fists, eh?
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)John Good testified he saw a man in dark clothing on top of a man who was wearing red or light-colored clothing with lighter skin. Zimmerman, 29, was wearing a red jacket the night of the altercation, and Martin was wearing a dark hoodie. However, Good testified that he didn't see the person on top smashing the other person's head into the sidewalk, as Zimmerman claims Martin did before he fatally shot the teen.
Accents are relative. Everybody has an accent (or dialect). GZ had a Southern accent and it seems he has a little of his mother's Spanish speaking accent. GZ spoke Spanish also.
Now you're making excuses for the evidence by claiming the cops were lying. Cops do lie, but it's doubtful here.
How can you convict someone on this weak evidence?
mzmolly
(50,992 posts)They're different, ya know?
Zimmerman has no southern accent, neither did the child who called out for help on the tape in question.
Cops didn't lie, but they were clearly biased in this case. Ask Shiping Bao.
Weak evidence? Are you kidding me? Weak my rear. A kid died because George Zimmerman was pissed off. What is weak is the claim that GZ would be dead without his handgun.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)If you go off expounding at length on only-peripherally-relevant information to the exact question asked, you can generally expect to be reined in by the judge and told to limit your testimony to the question asked.
There is no opportunity in a properly-conducted trial for anybody to interject anything.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)his opinion. There may be a legal reason for that. We shall see.
markiv
(1,489 posts)and/or that a prosecutor can exclude all traces of that report from a trial via skewed deposition questioning?
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)I had several screaming how my not spending my money there wouldnt change anything. Other the small thing of making me feel good about not supporting such a place by sailing there. Hopefully we start to get a real airing out of the cesspool that is Florida.
John_Carter
(15 posts)IOW, what would he release that would incontrovertibly show Martin was not the aggressor that was not released at trial?
I can't even imagine what it could be but I'm not a ME either... so...
Duer 157099
(17,742 posts)Defense vs offensive wounds? Lack of somethng? Can't wait to hear more.
I just hope it's fact and not just his opinion!
John_Carter
(15 posts)Duer 157099
(17,742 posts)But this brings his whole "those are my personal notes!" thing into a different perspective now. There must be something in his notes relevent to this.
Captain Stern
(2,201 posts)As I recall, court was recessed because the ME was reading from his notes during his testimony and neither attorney had been given an opportunity to review these notes beforehand. During the recess both lawyers were given the chance to study his notes.
That indicates that either he had absolutely nothing in his personal notes about the evidence that he's talking about now or the Prosecutor intentionally avoided asking him about this supposed evidence.
DearAbby
(12,461 posts)that treats one group of people one way, and another group of people another way...This is going to blast this out of the water. Proof how deeply imbedded racism is in our society. These good ol boys just took it to extreme.
Justice failed Trayvon the minute he died. He wasn't treated the same. He died guilty, by their standards.
John_Carter
(15 posts)Like what?
Up thread someone said it would be proof that Martin was not on top as the forensic evidence and eye witness statements entered into the record seem to show.
What is it going to be that proves, conclusively, that all of that was wrong and that X is absolutely right? What was it that didn't make it into the medical report? etc.. etc...
Lots of layers...
DearAbby
(12,461 posts)that would have allowed the evidence he has to be entered into court records. If Trayvon was not the aggressor, then the verdict based on the evidence would have found Zimmerman guilty. Why wasn't this question asked?
John_Carter
(15 posts)Why isn't it in his deposition?
It just all sounds very "magic bullet" to me.
If only this one singular question had been asked, then incontrovertible proof (against something for which there is evidence) would have been entered into the record... from a public document that has been scoured top to bottom.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)But I'd assume it's details like the entry wound showing Martin could not have been sitting on Zimmerman when he was shot - such as the shot not coming from below. Or that Martin had no offensive injuries on his hands.
But all we've got is wild-ass guesses for now.
JimboBillyBubbaBob
(1,389 posts)Story plays out.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Has he admitted to perjury?
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)dkf
(37,305 posts)Dr. Shiping Bao testified that he had "no memory" of Martin's autopsy and read from his personal notes on the witness stand. West asked for copies of Bao's notes to go over during the lunch recess, which led to a defiant response from the medical examiner.
Now he is saying he remembers so much that he has proof of something or other.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)Those notes of his may very likely contain the details he is presenting in his lawsuit now. It is absurd to suggest that because he relies on notes he is lying.
dkf
(37,305 posts)He says he has no memory of the day of autopsy. As in none.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)I am sure that he did a lot of autopsies and can not keep track of all the crucial details, this is most likely what he meant when he said he had no memory. He most likely had some memory but it was not vivid enough to give testimony based on. Just because something is not literally true does not make it a lie, if he did not remember enough of the crucial details to feel comfortable testifying without notes that does not mean he did not remember anything. You are taking his words way too literally, nobody could be convicted of perjury based on that.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)recognize facts that lead to a conclusion that he did not reach on that day.
Let's say that in his notes he memorialized certain physical facts that, since the case was not considered to be a homicide, he did not on that day consider all that important. Then let's say that preparing for trial, he reviewed his notes and realized that he had to come to the conclusion that Martin could not have been on top of Zimmerman.
The defense attorneys could have brought their own expert to argue against Bao's conclusion that Zimmerman was on top.
I think this is a crucial issue in the case that was not properly explored at trial. I would like to see Bao's evidence and theories on this. It was the crucial issue in the trial. Zimmerman's self-serving testimony on it was not seriously questioned. I found that odd at the time. That is why I was shocked that the prosecution brought in Zimmerman's statement to the police -- his self-serving, pious explanation about what happened and then barely questioned that statement and never cross-examined Zimmerman. Perhaps that is Florida law and procedure. But I was really surprised. Zimmerman could not be forced to testify against himself, but his statement should have been analyzed more carefully -- should have been torn apart. I don't think the prosecution did that. That is my opinion. The prosecution was weak.
dkf
(37,305 posts)He would not have a little detail missed to offer for example as he doesn't have much from his memory of the autopsy itself.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)His theory about why Trayvon Martin was not the attacker may be derived from the notes. I suspect it is merely a theory, but the prosecution should have tried to bring it in. The prosecution was far too concerned about Zimmerman and far too little about Trayvon Martin. Trayvon Martin is the dead kid. Remember. He is the one the prosecutors were supposed to be exonerating in order to get justice. I think the prosecutors did not, shall we say, have their hearts in their jobs. They were dreaming about political promotions, not the unpopular task at hand, in my opinion.
dkf
(37,305 posts)It would have been evident from his notes. It's funny he thinks he has the credibility to have asserted anything. He was a bad witness.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)See post #142. It looks like he and/or his lawyer are making shit up to get attention.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)Open your eyes!!!!
JVS
(61,935 posts)controversial aspect of this is that the notes were not shared with the defense prior to the trial. That's not allowed. It also opens up the possibility that the notes were not authentic.
dkf
(37,305 posts)There's nothing extra that was not in the report which was seen by all.
If there was anything glaring that was of great significance, someone would have pointed it out.
Duer 157099
(17,742 posts)And it's something that many people were agreeing with, pot tends to make people less aggressive. Although I suppose there are always exceptions (but I've never met any).
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)it's long past time for the feds to step in.
Soundman
(297 posts)He was asked plenty of questions that gave him the chance o state that theory. If you watched him testify it took all of about two minutes to realize the guy was totally incompetent.
warrior1
(12,325 posts)a crime that you could be charged with? This sounds like a conspiracy.
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts) Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)performed an autopsy on this kid? It's bullshit! Someone pressured him to get on the stand and lie!!
It all was a cover-up! All of it!!!
Gothmog
(145,242 posts)The Feds are looking at bringing a case but do not want to retry the same facts. This information could be a game changer and could help the Feds make the right decision as to bringing a civil rights case against Zimmerman
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)DUers, didn't I tell you it was a set-up? Didn't I say all along that there appeared to be collusion between the state prosecutors, the cops, and the witnesses? I told you that Dr. Bao was the most compelling witness for the prosecution. If you recall, he claims that he couldn't even remember performing the Trayvon's autopsy. He got on the stand and denied all his previous findings, again, claiming that he couldn't even remember performing the autopsy. The prosecution didn't seem "prepared" to question him or even try to push him further. Who got to Dr. Bao? Why did he crack on the stand? Why did he change his story--the original story being that he found no OFFENSIVE wounds on Trayvon, meaning, there was no evidence that Trayvon punched Zimmerman; there were no sores, no offensive scars that would suggest that Trayvon scratched Zimmerman unless it was in defensive mode; no wounds whatsoever that would back up Zimmerman's LIES!!!
Well, apparently he is coming forward. Hopefully we won't find Dr. Bao floating in some river somewhere.
Sissyk
(12,665 posts)He needs to be on his hands and knees begging Sabrina and Tracy to forgive him for helping get their son's killer off.
IF, and that's a big IF, Bao knew more than he testified to and let Zimmerman go free, Trayvon's blood is on his hands! HIS HANDS! He was ask for his opinion on who was on top. See the video above.
I can't believe so few are upset about this. He is to blame if he had SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE and, for whatever reason, kept his mouth shut....or waited on the right question....or this was his first time testifying in court. Whatever the reason, he is as much responsible as the Prosecution.
When he gets fired (for whatever reason) is when we hear he had evidence he was ask the right question about. Give me a fucking break! He is as guilty as the rest.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)means something. It means that there is still this cover-up taking place.
People aren't furious about this because a black kid is dead. They are still defending Zimmerman and his lawyer even after all this is coming out. They could care less about an innocent, unarmed black boy being gunned down.
Sissyk
(12,665 posts)I care more than you will ever know. I care about Trayvon. BUt, I also care if this SOB got on the stand and lied instead of showing proof that zimmerman was guilty. He helped Zimmerman get away with it IF HE LIED! But, why is he only coming out with it now? Because he doesn't have proof, is my answer.
Again, I care. I care how this will hurt trayvon's parents when they are trying to heal and go forward. This asshole doesn't care about anything but himself.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Yandorio
(21 posts)
Ohio Joe
(21,756 posts)From your link:
"The assistant medical examiner who raised eyebrows during George Zimmerman's murder trial this summer is claiming ethnic discrimination and wrongful termination after his departure from Volusia County government, news-journalonline.com is reporting today.
An attorney for Bao said the China native is being blamed for mistakes in the Zimmerman's trial and a complaint filed with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission on Bao's behalf claims ethnic discrimination in his termination."
One can't be surprised that zimmerman apologists would only see what they want to see and leave out the rest.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)Yup, that should go really well for him.
Wonder how hard it would be to get a change of venue for a civil trial.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)Why? I can't imagine. Probably his father's connections. Or who knows what.
But stuff like this and his ex-wife and father-in-law dropping charges against him makes me wonder just who is telling people to 'Shut up. Don't say those things,' against Zimmerman
King_Klonopin
(1,306 posts)That fat cop's demeanor said it all:
"Gun? What gun?
We found no gun on him!
(he carries that fucking gun with him EVERYWHERE he goes --
It's his surrogate dick.)
What charges?
No charges are being made here. No one wants to file any charges.
(His wife sounded scared for her life on that tape -- like Trayvon did.
She knows he's capable of killing)
What punch in the nose?
Yah, there was a mark on her dad's nose, but no evidence of assault. No big deal.
The broken iPhone?
He didn't break her iPhone by stabbing it with a knife (destroying the
recordings of his threatening, assaultive behavior.) She "dropped it".
(Yah, that's the ticket!)
The police are STILL covering for this sociopathic scumbag.
It's going to end like the O.J. saga.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Anyone know?
It seems like really important supressed evidence. The irony is how many other people are being discovered to have complicity in covering up Z's crime. May they all be found out!
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Bao and/or his lawyer are full of shit.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)pleading guilty to perjury, helping George, covering up...whatever. And he remains teflon himself.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)Zimmerman may be a scumbag murder, but I'd rather keep the protections of the Bill of Rights.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)Yes I think Zimmerman is a fucking murderer. But I type out "may" because I'm reading DU with a fucking Stomach Flu, dehydrated as fuck and tired, and you post to imply I'm a Zimmerman fan.
Search my past posts and you will see I think the guy is a murderer.
Fucking Hell!
heaven05
(18,124 posts)well. I mean it and I stand chastened. I'm not a nazi.
Hope you feel better soon.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)I'm sorry I unloaded on you. I'm not at my best this morning. I'm mega cranky as I just woke up from a night of hell. Being sick when it's this humid with no AC sucks.
The point I wanted to get across was that I'll accept even a scummy murderer like Zimmerman getting away without the possibility for retrial than do away with the protection of double jeopardy. I do understand that FL's legal system is crooked as hell though. I once lived in the South, and "lived the dream" of life down there as the sarcastic saying goes.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)His wife knows it, too, which is no doubt why she's bugging the fuck out.
He killed that kid, and it was probably even pre-meditated. the guy's a psycho.
His supporters are racist shitheads. Every last one of them.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Says through his high powered lawyer that he has info and was told to be quiet. Then they didn't ask him the question he wanted? This sounds like disgruntled bullshit. That or he is a coward willing to aid a murderer.
Found some answers. Suing for ethnic discrimination and wrongful termination. Made $176,00 per year.
red dog 1
(27,804 posts)IMO, the United States Department of Justice should investigate the entire case, especially the special prosecutor's ineptitude, the medical examiner's office's role, and the Sanford Police Department's bias against Trayvon Martin. (Possibly in violation of the 1964 Civil Rights Act)
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)and got a pretty good scorching here for it. Now it appears that I wasn't off the mark at all.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)too many zimpig supporters on this site wanted him to go free. You were right, they were/are racist.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)wercal
(1,370 posts)1. Dr. Bao will reach a settlement with the county - he's Chinese American, and they fired him for 'communication skills'...so yep, he'll get some money (probably less than $100k) and he'll get his job back.
2. We will never hear Dr. Bao, or his attorney, ever describe this unheard scientific evidence that Martin could not be on top of Zimmerman....ever.
3. This wrongful termination case will have zero impact on any decision to bring federal civil rights charges.
4. This wrongful termination case will have zero impact as to whether or not the Martins pursue a wrongful death civil lawsuit. And they won't.
Response to wercal (Reply #180)
Name removed Message auto-removed
johnd83
(593 posts)It seems like they keep covering for him.
DallasNE
(7,403 posts)Questions not asked and evidence not permitted.
The primary questions not asked that I focused on were 1) the 3 1/2 minute gap between when Zimmerman hung up on the dispatcher after being told "we don't need you to be doing that" when he learned Zimmerman was following Martin and the time the fatal struggle started, 2) expert testimony on what happens to one's ability to talk when a single bullet hits the heart and takes out both lungs and that would be critical to the scream that ended the millisecond the shot was fired and 3) why the gunshot expert wasn't asked if Zimmerman's left hand was grabbing Martin's hoodie at the time the shot was fired that the distance the hoodie was from the body would have been consistent with Zimmerman being on top or both standing as well as Martin on top. The evidence not permitted by Judge Nelson was Zimmerman's state of mind at the time of the shooting. As we can now see, that was very critical evidence that was not permitted. I also criticized Judge Nelson for sequestering the Jury because that caused things to be rushed constantly, including the verdict where they deliberated less than 20 hours.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)I'm sure the prosecution's questions and half-assed efforts might have something to do with it, but he spent a bunch of time rambling about his opinions vs. Fact, and they could not get a straight answer from him. It was the worst testimony I have ever seen from a pathologist.
I still think Zman is a murdering, gun toting bigot, but Bao was awful and didn't help the case. He should have been terminated along with the prosecution team.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)us that the prosecution purposefully lost the case and that he was threatened. He got up on the stand and lied, saying that he didn't remember performing the autopsy on Trayvon. It was a lie!! He's trying to tell us that evidence was suppressed!!!!
Th1onein
(8,514 posts)The prosecution WANTED TO LOSE THIS CASE.
tokenlib
(4,186 posts)The following and stalking of Trayvon is the beginning and the end of it for me. Nothing else matters in my book. Zimmerman deserves karma to kick his ass...
Faryn Balyncd
(5,125 posts)The actions of the Stanford PD, and the intentionally incompetent prosecution is beyond disgraceful.
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)explosive.. 
wow.
NealK
(1,867 posts) nikto
(3,284 posts)How does an aggressive pursuer "stand his ground"?
I never got that.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)once he finally admitted that he WAS pursuing, when the dispatcher asked if he was pursuing and was told not to do that. He claimed he stopped pursuing at that point and started walking back toward his car and that Martin suddenly sprang out of bushes and assaulted him... oh wait, he didn't spring out of bushes since there were no bushes there, so he then claimed that Martin just mysteriously appeared before him and assaulted him after a brief exchange of bad B movie lines were uttered.
nikto
(3,284 posts)What are the criteria for "Manslaughter" in Florida?
And why was a manslaughter charge overlooked?
It almost seems to me that the 2nd-degree murder charge was used
as a distraction away from Manslaughter.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)State Attorney Angela Corey has a history of overcharging cases. She likes to shoot for the moon.
nikto
(3,284 posts)...like a fox, huh?
By doing so, she practically facilitated an acquittal.
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)nope.
PorridgeGun
(80 posts)Last edited Thu Sep 12, 2013, 01:34 PM - Edit history (1)
..how there was no way Trayvon Martin could have been on top of George Zimmerman."
This is impossible. When a semi-auto is fired the casing is ejected to the right. Had Zimmerman been on top of Trayvon, or in any other position, the placement of the casing would have been quite damning evidence that Zimmerman had lied about the last moments before the shooting.
One of the reasons he wasn't charged in the beginning is that the walk through demonstration Zimmerman was happy to provide (twice) for the police was entirely consistent with exactly that sort of physical evidence and the one eyewitness. Cops and ballistics experts are very, very good at rooting out inconsistencies in peoples stories using small things like powder burns, the position of spent brass and such.
In fact according to police testimony Z was very happy when they told him (falsely) that the entire incident had been recorded by CCTV or a cell phone cam (can't quite remember which.)
Bao strikes me as yet another person with sour grapes who is going to try and use the lingering racial polarisation on this issue to create a bit of publicity for himself.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the medical examiners report and all the other forensic evidence in this case are public record. Had there been evidence contradicting Z it'd have been splashed across every demonestic news station, news paper and news oriented site long before now.
I suspect, therefore, that this "proof" will turn out to be an opinion that has three charicteristics. 1. It will be something that will play well with the anti-Z crowd -- already a given. 2. It will have very little or no hard evidence in favor of it. 3. It will be impossible to conclusively refute, perhaps because the body has been destroyed.
#3 is by far the most important for setting off the kook meter and probably the best indicator that Bao is an opportunistic liar.
Unless he has something genuinely revolutionary which can be independently confirmed, all he's after is a bit of cash, some publicity, a few paid speaking engagements, and, of course, to thumb his nose at his old bosses.
Nine
(1,741 posts)In fact according to police testimony Z was very happy when they told him (falsely) that the entire incident had been recorded by CCTV or a cell phone cam (can't quite remember which.)
Of all the dumb things Zimmerman defenders say, this has always struck me as one of the dumbest. How else would Zimmerman have been expected to respond to that? "Oh shit, really? I guess the jig is up!" Everyone who's seen a police show on tv knows this bluffing tactic. It's right up there with "good cop, bad cop," and "Your accomplice is in there right now ratting you out. Don't you want to be the one who rats him out first so that you can get the deal?" Zimmerman studied criminology. He wasn't dumb enough to be taken in by this. The fact that anyone is desperate enough to trot this out as some kind of proof of his innocence says something. The fact that the police were so willing to do the same says even more.
PorridgeGun
(80 posts)Last edited Thu Sep 12, 2013, 05:10 PM - Edit history (9)
That I knew your knowledge of interrogation techniques came from TV shows before the end of your second sentence.
I would like to thank you for confirming my suspicions in very short order though, and I say that without malice. I'm not in the best of humour tonight and I needed a little chuckle.
In any case, I have had training in, have studied, and given instruction on resistance to interrogation techniques as well as learned to use them myself (including "enhanced" interrogation). I have also been on the receiving end and been subjected to them (including, again, "enhanced" techniques) during a training exercise. Granted, much of that goes far beyond standard police interrogation tactics, but much is still relevant.
GZ's interview is certainly not "right up there" with any of those TV scenario's, I'm afraid.
First, an interrogator strives at the outset to establish "baseline behaviors" that can be used as a foundation for spotting tells that something is amiss. This works in exactly the same way the first few questions of a lie detector test, which are asked soley for establishing physiological baselines. That alone makes it very different from TV street interviews by beat cops with subjects they may have never encountered before, let alone had the chance to observe closely whilst sitting across a table with them for several hours in a small room.
GZ certainly does not have the training to bluff his way through a manslaughter interrogation that is going to pick at every piece of the story, repeatedly, and from different angles. Such things are not taught in any college, anywhere. I doubt he has either the intellectual or psychological resilience required to pass such a course of training in the extraordinarily unlikely event he found one willing to admit him as a student.
No, he would n't have said "the jig is up." It wouldn't have mattered what he'd said because his physical reactions would have given him away before his mind was quick enough to check the "startle" tells, let alone get his mouth open. This is usually followed up by a few snide comments by the detective about noticing a slight discomfort to further rustle the subject, followed by more probing on that subject. All good cops who interview suspects regularly know the basics of this, and there are far more effective things than good cop/bad cop around these days.
Had things gone that way the cops would certainly not have use it in a way that portrayed Zimmerman favourably. They would have considered themselves hot on the trail of at least a manslaughter case at that point.
It isn't "proof" of his innocence, either, just another notch amongst many others on the scorecard in which GZ's lawyers obliterated the prosecution in a never ending blowout.
The proof of his innocence -- coincidentally, the only proof that really matters -- is that a diverse jury of 6 people reviewed all the evidence. all the testimony, and after deliberating at length unanimously acquitted him of both murder and manslaughter,
That GZ is innocent isn't an opinion, it is a fact. You can refuse to accept that fact if you'd like, but I have yet to hear anyone give a rational reason for doing so. And no, the utterly pathetic attempts ITT to gin up hope that a shitcanned medic with a grudge against his bosses and a zeal for publicity is in fact in posession of heretofore unknown hard evidence that blows this case out of the water does not count as a "rational reason."
It can hardly even be said to be within the realm of possibility at this point.
No, you've made the mistake, a very common one around these parts, of combining a self evidently incorrect estimation of Z's intelligence and general character with a knowledge of police procedure. evidence, guns and such that comes entirely from watching "reality" television programs. The bizarre conjectures that follow this unholy union of ignorance and vast overestimation of ones TV show based competence is often quite funny.
Ok, I'm sorry. I mean, what was I thinking? OF COURSE Zimmy lied. Its all clear to me now. Trayvon couldn't possibly have sat on top of GZ and said "you got it" after the shot was fired because he would have been instantly incapacitated and blown backwards by the devastating muzzle energy unleashed by 1 shot from a 9mm semiauto's. GUILTY!! GUILTY!! GUILTY!!!
lol
Nine
(1,741 posts)In your 700+ words of blather and condescension, you failed to refute my very simple point. Zimmerman was not about to fall for such a silly bluff as, "We caught what happened on camera." I don't doubt that police interrogators have much more sophisticated techniques in their toolbox, and I don't claim to be an expert on them. But that was not a sophisticated technique.
And I think YOU have been watching too much TV if you think police can easily read a suspect based on physical "tells" before the suspect even opens his mouth. Especially if an interrogator is biased to begin with. What nonsense.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)Nine
(1,741 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)then was told by his superiors to 'drop it'...I kinda knew the fix was in.
spanone
(135,832 posts)nikto
(3,284 posts)George Zimmerman will die of Irony.
7962
(11,841 posts)Should be very easy to determine which side of the body the bullet entered. This is 2013, not 1913.
But instead, we have to re-try the entire trial here on DU.
I don't think the vitriol was this bad when Bush was president.
hack89
(39,171 posts)ok.
Rex
(65,616 posts)nt.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)I thought such things did not exist.