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Better Believe It

(18,630 posts)
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 08:02 PM Feb 2012

Wikileaks: Obama Administration kept close tabs on Occupy Wall Street protests.

Wikileaks: US Dept. of Homeland Security Kept File on Occupy Wall Street
by Common Dreams staff
February 29, 2012


If there was any doubt among Occupy movement activists that the federal government was keeping close tabs on the development of their growing street protests and public encampments, a newly released Department of Homeland Security document will put those doubts to rest.

Occupy protestors during a demonstration at the UC Davis campus in November. The DHS report is part of a trove of documents Wikileaks began publishing earlier this week under the banner, "The Global Intelligence Files". The release includes over 5 million e-mails and documents culled from the US-based private intelligence firm Stratfor, the Global Intelligence Company described by Barons as the Shadow CIA. Wikileaks has shared certain emails and documents with 25 separate media outlets from around the world. The DHS report on Occupy Wall Street was released to Rolling Stone journalist Michael Hastings for advanced review ....

Michael Hastings, author of the recently published book The Operators: The Wild and Terrifying Inside Story of America's War in Afghanistan, is best know for his damning report of former US commander in Afghanistan, General Stanley McChrystal, who was forced to resign his position after Hastings reporting appeared in the magazine.

It’s never a good thing to see a government agency talk in secret about the need to “control protestors” – especially when that agency is charged with protecting the homeland against terrorists, not nonviolent demonstrators exercising their First Amendment rights to peaceable dissent. From the notorious Cointelpro operations of the 1960s to the NYPD’s recent surveillance of Muslim Americans, the government has a long and disturbing history of justifying the curtailing of civil liberties under the cover of perceived, and often manufactured, threats ("the potential security risk to critical infrastructure). What’s more, there have been reports that Homeland Security played an active role in coordinating the nationwide crackdown on the Occupy movement last November – putting the federal government in the position of targeting its own citizens in the name of national security. There is not much of a bureaucratic leap, if history is any guide, between a seemingly benign call for "continuous situational awareness" and the onset of a covert and illegal campaign of domestic surveillance.

Read the full article at:

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/02/29-1


-----------------------------------------------------------------------


Exclusive: Homeland Security Kept Tabs on Occupy Wall Street
February 28, 2012
By Michael Hastings


As Occupy Wall Street spread across the nation last fall, sparking protests in more than 70 cities, the Department of Homeland Security began keeping tabs on the movement. An internal DHS report entitled “SPECIAL COVERAGE: Occupy Wall Street," dated October of last year, opens with the observation that "mass gatherings associated with public protest movements can have disruptive effects on transportation, commercial, and government services, especially when staged in major metropolitan areas." While acknowledging the overwhelmingly peaceful nature of OWS, the report notes darkly that "large scale demonstrations also carry the potential for violence, presenting a significant challenge for law enforcement."

The five-page report – contained in 5 million newly leaked documents examined by Rolling Stone in an investigative partnership with WikiLeaks – goes on to sum up the history of Occupy Wall Street and assess its "impact" on everything from financial services to government facilities.

The most ominous aspect of the report, however, comes in its final paragraph:

"The growing support for the OWS movement has expanded the protests’ impact and increased the potential for violence. While the peaceful nature of the protests has served so far to mitigate their impact, larger numbers and support from groups such as Anonymous substantially increase the risk for potential incidents and enhance the potential security risk to critical infrastructure (CI). The continued expansion of these protests also places an increasingly heavy burden on law enforcement and movement organizers to control protesters. As the primary target of the demonstrations, financial services stands the sector most impacted by the OWS protests. Due to the location of the protests in major metropolitan areas, heightened and continuous situational awareness for security personnel across all CI sectors is encouraged."

Read the full article at:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/national-affairs/exclusive-homeland-security-kept-tabs-on-occupy-wall-street-20120228

Read the full Homeland Security report at:

http://www1.rollingstone.com/extras/13637_DHS%20IP%20Special.pdf
53 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Wikileaks: Obama Administration kept close tabs on Occupy Wall Street protests. (Original Post) Better Believe It Feb 2012 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author MikeOlsen Feb 2012 #1
Kaboom! PuraVidaDreamin Feb 2012 #2
I'm glad we're so popular. I guess that is better than being ignored. mmonk Feb 2012 #3
Keep trying...nt SidDithers Feb 2012 #4
Keep trying to ignore facts and defend the indefensible. white_wolf Feb 2012 #35
Red Scare. 21st Century version. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2012 #5
How do you know when something is effective...? n/t Earth_First Feb 2012 #6
Nothing really scandalous there. FarLeftFist Feb 2012 #7
Not at all. randome Feb 2012 #17
Just another day in the Government monitoring its citizens as if they were terrorists Zalatix Feb 2012 #19
Read the article before you cry 'victim'. randome Feb 2012 #22
Right. Nothing to see here .... move along folks! And meanwhile .... Better Believe It Feb 2012 #28
And this proves what? randome Feb 2012 #31
Nothing to see here folks .... move along now. Everything is fine. And meanwhile .... Better Believe It Feb 2012 #33
What does any of this have to do with monitoring public information? randome Feb 2012 #36
Why do you trivialize government surveillance of political dissidents and protest organizations? Better Believe It Feb 2012 #41
No offense meant. I'm just here for an honest discussion. randome Mar 2012 #43
Spying? What government spying? Just a bunch of paranoid comminists, terriorists and pinkos! Better Believe It Feb 2012 #29
Not Surprised fascisthunter Feb 2012 #8
So OWS has been a success Cali_Democrat Feb 2012 #9
This ProSense Feb 2012 #10
Sure.. that's the ticket. girl gone mad Feb 2012 #11
Wait ProSense Feb 2012 #12
No, I'm saying that the only groups which were actively trying to "infiltrate" and "co-opt" OWS.. girl gone mad Feb 2012 #13
Oh ProSense Feb 2012 #14
Pretending that its okay for DHS to spy on peaceful protestors.. girl gone mad Feb 2012 #15
But the Black Bloc WERE present at some of these events AND have resorted to violence. FarLeftFist Feb 2012 #16
How do you know who is 'Black Bloc' and who is not? randome Feb 2012 #21
Same tired old excuse. randome Feb 2012 #18
No, Black Bloc is not OWS. girl gone mad Feb 2012 #24
And you know how to tell Black Bloc from, um, 'real' OWS, do you? randome Feb 2012 #26
Your ProSense Feb 2012 #20
You claimed the spying was okay because OWS was being "co-opted" girl gone mad Feb 2012 #23
They were monitoring social web sites. randome Feb 2012 #25
I ProSense Feb 2012 #27
Black Bloc is a tactic NOT discussed at any OO GA (other than to disavow it) thus, there is no Luminous Animal Feb 2012 #30
Stunning cognitive dissonance as to the Bloc's participation in OWS. joshcryer Mar 2012 #46
So the DHS is merely trying to protect OWS' reputation brentspeak Mar 2012 #53
I'm okay with this. The fed SHOULD keep an eye on organized groups protesting across... Honeycombe8 Feb 2012 #32
Giving up our freedoms and liberties in order to stop a rapist or gunman is wonderful! Better Believe It Feb 2012 #37
'Giving up our freedoms'? You mean by posting on public web sites. randome Feb 2012 #38
What freedom do you think has been given up? We're still free to protest. Honeycombe8 Feb 2012 #40
And the government is free to place you under surveillance for subversive activities .... Better Believe It Mar 2012 #44
Whatever...look I don't have a problem with this. vaberella Mar 2012 #42
Ok ok, so how shocked should I act now that some of the claims nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #34
Good. Then somebody knows just how fucking mad I am. lonestarnot Feb 2012 #39
Is this some lame attempt to get a waning movement back into the headlines? I don't even..... Tarheel_Dem Mar 2012 #45
I hope they spelled my name correctly. U4ikLefty Mar 2012 #47
I'm glad this OWS tomfoolery has quieted down Obamacare Mar 2012 #48
Well of course they did!!! Rex Mar 2012 #49
So when did it become necessary to defend the Bill of Rights on Democratic Underground .... Better Believe It Mar 2012 #50
Naomi Wolf: "U.S. is sleepwalking into becoming a police state ... the president can lock up anyone" Better Believe It Mar 2012 #51
I'm not surprised. Kind of feel sorry for those who honestly believe the Administration wasn't Justice wanted Mar 2012 #52

Response to Better Believe It (Original post)

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
35. Keep trying to ignore facts and defend the indefensible.
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 11:10 PM
Feb 2012

You're getting pretty good at it. Well the first part at least.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
17. Not at all.
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 09:45 PM
Feb 2012

For one thing, DHS was monitoring social and other web sites. For another, the bit about 'controlling protesters' was in reference to city authorities AND protest organizers finding it hard to control the protests.

Hardly anything scandalous, as you say.

I don't want DHS spying on ANYone but until they fold up and go away, this is just part of their job. And how is monitoring public information all that sinister?

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
22. Read the article before you cry 'victim'.
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 09:58 PM
Feb 2012

They were monitoring public web sites. How scary. I'm sure by this time next week, we'll be living in a police state.

 

Better Believe It

(18,630 posts)
28. Right. Nothing to see here .... move along folks! And meanwhile ....
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 10:47 PM
Feb 2012

Proving the Feds are even busier monitoring social media than perhaps you imagined, the watchdog group Electronic Privacy Information Center has posted the Department of Homeland Security “Analyst’s Desktop Binder,” a 39-page manual listing hundreds of seemingly innocuous words - along with some obviously problematic ones like Al Qaeda, though why any Al Qaeda operative would actually use them is beyond us - that could get you into trouble. God bless the Freedom of Information Act. Wait. Can we say "freedom," "information," and "act"?

http://www.commondreams.org/further/2012/02/29-0


The Feds have been forced to release their social network monitoring manual, which contains the list of words the government watches on social media and news sites.

Earlier the Huffington Post reported on the Feds have been forced to give up their list of words they monitor on Facebook, Twitter, and comments being posted on news articles so I compiled that list below.

Homeland Security Manual Lists Government Key Words For Monitoring Social Media, News.



The Official List – Using these words online will put you in the crosshairs of Big Brother’s multi-billion dollar spy machine

Domestic Security

Assassination
Attack
Domestic security
Drill
Exercise
Cops
Law enforcement
Authorities
Disaster assistance
Disaster management
DNDO (Domestic Nuclear
Detection Office)
National preparedness
Mitigation
Prevention
Response
Recovery
Dirty bomb
Domestic nuclear detection

Emergency management
Emergency response
First responder
Homeland security
Maritime domain awareness
(MDA)
National preparedness
initiative
Militia
Shooting
Shots fired
Evacuation
Deaths
Hostage
Explosion (explosive)
Police
Disaster medical assistance
team (DMAT)
Organized crime

Gangs
National security
State of emergency
Security
Breach
Threat
Standoff
SWAT
Screening
Lockdown
Bomb (squad or threat)
Crash
Looting
Riot
Emergency Landing
Pipe bomb
Incident
Facility




HAZMAT & Nuclear



Hazmat
Nuclear
Chemical spill
Suspicious package/device
Toxic
National laboratory
Nuclear facility
Nuclear threat
Cloud
Plume
Radiation
Radioactive

Leak
Biological infection (or
event)
Chemical
Chemical burn
Biological
Epidemic
Hazardous
Hazardous material incident
Industrial spill
Infection
Powder (white)

Gas
Spillover
Anthrax
Blister agent
Chemical agent
Exposure
Burn
Nerve agent
Ricin
Sarin
North Korea




Health Concern + H1N1



Outbreak
Contamination
Exposure
Virus
Evacuation
Bacteria
Recall
Ebola
Food Poisoning
Foot and Mouth (FMD)
H5N1
Avian
Flu
Strain
Quarantine
H1N1
Vaccine

Salmonella
Small Pox
Plague
Human to human
Human to Animal
Influenza
Center for Disease Control
(CDC)
Drug Administration (FDA)
Public Health
Toxic
Agro Terror
Tuberculosis (TB)
Tamiflu
Norvo Virus
Epidemic

Agriculture
Listeria
Symptoms
Mutation
Resistant
Antiviral
Wave
Pandemic
Infection
Water/air borne
Sick
Swine
Pork World Health Organization
(WHO) (and components)
Viral Hemorrhagic Fever
E. Coli





Infrastructure Security



Infrastructure security
Airport
CIKR (Critical Infrastructure
& Key Resources)
AMTRAK
Collapse
Computer infrastructure
Communications
infrastructure
Telecommunications
Critical infrastructure
National infrastructure
Metro
WMATA

Airplane (and derivatives)
Chemical fire
Subway
BART
MARTA
Port Authority
NBIC (National
Biosurveillance Integration
Center)
Transportation security
Grid
Power
Smart
Body scanner

Electric
Failure or outage
Black out
Brown out
Port
Dock
Bridge
Cancelled
Delays
Service disruption
Power lines




Southwest Border Violence



Drug cartel
Violence
Gang
Drug
Narcotics
Cocaine
Marijuana
Heroin
Border
Mexico
Cartel
Southwest
Juarez
Sinaloa
Tijuana
Torreon
Yuma
Tucson
Decapitated
U.S. Consulate
Consular
El Paso

Fort Hancock
San Diego
Ciudad Juarez
Nogales
Sonora
Colombia
Mara salvatrucha
MS13 or MS-13
Drug war
Mexican army
Methamphetamine
Cartel de Golfo
Gulf Cartel
La Familia
Reynosa
Nuevo Leon
Narcos
Narco banners (Spanish
equivalents)
Los Zetas
Shootout
Execution

Gunfight
Trafficking
Kidnap
Calderon
Reyosa
Bust
Tamaulipas
Meth Lab
Drug trade
Illegal immigrants
Smuggling (smugglers)
Matamoros
Michoacana
Guzman
Arellano-Felix
Beltran-Leyva
Barrio Azteca
Artistic Assassins
Mexicles
New Federation




Terrorism



Terrorism
Al Qaeda (all spellings)
Terror
Attack
Iraq
Afghanistan
Iran
Pakistan
Agro
Environmental terrorist
Eco terrorism
Conventional weapon
Target
Weapons grade
Dirty bomb
Enriched
Nuclear
Chemical weapon
Biological weapon
Ammonium nitrate
Improvised explosive device

IED (Improvised Explosive
Device)
Abu Sayyaf
Hamas
FARC (Armed Revolutionary
Forces Colombia)
IRA (Irish Republican Army)
ETA (Euskadi ta Askatasuna)
Basque Separatists
Hezbollah
Tamil Tigers
PLF (Palestine Liberation
Front)
PLO (Palestine Liberation
Organization
Car bomb
Jihad
Taliban
Weapons cache
Suicide bomber
Suicide attack

Suspicious substance
AQAP (AL Qaeda Arabian
Peninsula)
AQIM (Al Qaeda in the
Islamic Maghreb)
TTP (Tehrik-i-Taliban
Pakistan)
Yemen
Pirates
Extremism
Somalia
Nigeria
Radicals
Al-Shabaab
Home grown
Plot
Nationalist
Recruitment
Fundamentalism
Islamist




Weather/Disaster/Emergency



Emergency
Hurricane
Tornado
Twister
Tsunami
Earthquake
Tremor
Flood
Storm
Crest
Temblor
Extreme weather
Forest fire
Brush fire

Ice
Stranded/Stuck
Help
Hail
Wildfire
Tsunami Warning Center
Magnitude
Avalanche
Typhoon
Shelter-in-place
Disaster
Snow
Blizzard
Sleet

Mud slide or Mudslide
Erosion
Power outage
Brown out
Warning
Watch
Lightening
Aid
Relief
Closure
Interstate
Burst
Emergency Broadcast System




Cyber Security



Cyber security
Botnet
DDOS (dedicated denial of
service)
Denial of service
Malware
Virus
Trojan
Keylogger
Cyber Command

2600
Spammer
Phishing
Rootkit
Phreaking
Cain and abel
Brute forcing
Mysql injection
Cyber attack
Cyber terror

Hacker
China
Conficker
Worm
Scammers
Social media

http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2012/02/27/official-list-words-feds-monitored-social-neworking-sites-86741/






 

randome

(34,845 posts)
31. And this proves what?
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 10:57 PM
Feb 2012

That some of the words in the list are stupid?

All I'm pointing out is the article's false contention that DHS was attempting to 'control protests'. The actual quote is that the size and scope of protests were making it hard for city authorities and PROTEST ORGANIZERS to control the protests.

And that monitoring public information hardly meets the definition of 'spying'.

I'd rather DHS go away but I don't see what they were doing in regards to OWS as sinister in any way. Maybe unnecessary but hardly enough to merit outrage.

 

Better Believe It

(18,630 posts)
33. Nothing to see here folks .... move along now. Everything is fine. And meanwhile ....
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 11:07 PM
Feb 2012

Spy Files
Illegal Domestic Spying


Today the government is spying on Americans in ways the founders of our country never could have imagined. The FBI, federal intelligence agencies, the military, state and local police, private companies, and even firemen and emergency medical technicians are gathering incredible amounts of personal information about ordinary Americans that can be used to construct vast dossiers that can be widely shared with a simple mouse-click through new institutions like Joint Terrorism Task Forces, fusion centers, and public-private partnerships. The fear of terrorism has led to a new era of overzealous police intelligence activity directed, as in the past, against political activists, racial and religious minorities, and immigrants.

This surveillance activity is not directed solely at suspected terrorists and criminals. It's directed at all of us. Increasingly, the government is engaged in suspicionless surveillance that vacuums up and tracks sensitive information about innocent people. Even more disturbingly, as the government's surveillance powers have grown more intrusive and more powerful, the restrictions on many of those powers have been weakened or eliminated. And this surveillance often takes place in secret, with little or no oversight by the courts, by legislatures, or by the public.

The erosion of reasonable restrictions on government's power to collect people's personal information is putting the privacy and free speech rights of all Americans at risk. The American Civil Liberties Union and its affiliates across the country have uncovered and reported on many aspects of this growing domestic surveillance activity over the last several years. Our updated Spy Files website combines the information we've collected from Freedom of Information Act requests, ACLU lawsuits and reports, and news accounts so that members of the public can begin to get a comprehensive view of how these networked intelligence activities threaten their civil liberities.

You can navigate the links to get updated information on spying conducted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Department of Homeland Security, the military, intelligence agencies, state and local police, and even private companies. Click here to read about specific spying platforms, such as fusion centers, Joint Terrorism Task Forces and Suspicious Activity Reporting programs.

http://www.aclu.org/spy-files

However, this is nothing to worry about. So move along folks, nothing to see here. Isn't that right "randome"? BBI

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
36. What does any of this have to do with monitoring public information?
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 11:22 PM
Feb 2012

And why my user name in quotes? Is that supposed to be some kind of insult or threat? Neither is taken, by the way, just curious.

Again, how it is spying when DHS was simply monitoring public web sites? Can they be trusted to not abuse their authority? Nope. But absent evidence that they did, why should we feel victimized by them?

 

Better Believe It

(18,630 posts)
41. Why do you trivialize government surveillance of political dissidents and protest organizations?
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 11:56 PM
Feb 2012

The DHS monitoring is just one aspect of the massive general government surveillance of peaceful and legal political activities.

You write as if this government "monitoring" is somehow separate and totally unrelated to broader and massive government spying operations!

Is that what you really believe?

I sure hope you don't believe that. That would be naive at best.

And I'm sorry if you honestly felt threatened by the use of your DU user name. I don't threaten anyone on DU. And if you did not feel threatened why did you even bother to raise the possibility?
 

randome

(34,845 posts)
43. No offense meant. I'm just here for an honest discussion.
Thu Mar 1, 2012, 12:01 AM
Mar 2012

I think we all depend on both law enforcement and security agencies to keep us safe. That's their job and when we need their help, we scream the loudest for it.

It seems to me very hyperbolic to complain about DHS looking at publicly available web info to decide if OWS might become a violent movement. I am NOT going to say that government is always right about everything but I am glad that SOMEONE is looking out for the bad guys.

Just because some security departments have gotten power mad in the past does not mean that monitoring public web sites is, in itself, sinister.

IMHO.

On edit: what Vabarella says in post #42 puts it better than I did.

 

Better Believe It

(18,630 posts)
29. Spying? What government spying? Just a bunch of paranoid comminists, terriorists and pinkos!
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 10:51 PM
Feb 2012

If you're not doing anything that's critical of the government why worry about the government putting you under surveillance?

Only guilty people don't want to be spied on!
 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
9. So OWS has been a success
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 08:21 PM
Feb 2012

Any time you've got the quislings at homeland security spying on you, you can bet that the powers that be are scared. OWS is working. Keep it up!

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
10. This
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 08:26 PM
Feb 2012
"The growing support for the OWS movement has expanded the protests’ impact and increased the potential for violence. While the peaceful nature of the protests has served so far to mitigate their impact, larger numbers and support from groups such as Anonymous substantially increase the risk for potential incidents and enhance the potential security risk to critical infrastructure (CI). The continued expansion of these protests also places an increasingly heavy burden on law enforcement and movement organizers to control protesters. As the primary target of the demonstrations, financial services stands the sector most impacted by the OWS protests. Due to the location of the protests in major metropolitan areas, heightened and continuous situational awareness for security personnel across all CI sectors is encouraged."


...seems fairly routine, especially given that there were/are groups trying to co-opt the movement: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002274958

girl gone mad

(20,634 posts)
11. Sure.. that's the ticket.
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 09:07 PM
Feb 2012

Never mind that the only groups trying to co-opt OWS are the same old corporatist neo-lib DLC hacks who've already completely infiltrated the Democratic party. So we can assume that DHS has been spying on the DNC?

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
12. Wait
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 09:12 PM
Feb 2012

"Sure.. that's the ticket. Never mind that the only groups trying to co-opt OWS are the same old corporatist neo-lib DLC hacks who've already completely infiltrated the Democratic party. So we can assume that DHS has been spying on the DNC?"

...are you saying "Black Bloc anarchists" are "corporatist neo-lib DLC hacks"?

The Black Bloc anarchists, who have been active on the streets in Oakland and other cities, are the cancer of the Occupy movement.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002274958


Really?

girl gone mad

(20,634 posts)
13. No, I'm saying that the only groups which were actively trying to "infiltrate" and "co-opt" OWS..
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 09:19 PM
Feb 2012

were corporatist neo-lib hacks. Black bloc anarchists may have turned out to the protests and try to start trouble (what's new?), but they weren't attempting to "infiltrate" the general assemblies and "co-opt" the movement the way the DLCer-types were.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
14. Oh
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 09:21 PM
Feb 2012
No, I'm saying that the only groups which were actively trying to "infiltrate" and "co-opt" OWS..
were corporatist neo-lib hacks. Black bloc anarchists may have turned out to the protests and try to start trouble (what's new?), but they weren't attempting to "infiltrate" the general assemblies and "co-opt" the movement the way the DLCer-types were.

...that makes no sense in the context of the OP. None!

girl gone mad

(20,634 posts)
15. Pretending that its okay for DHS to spy on peaceful protestors..
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 09:36 PM
Feb 2012

because the movement was being "co-opted" makes absolutely no sense.

Spy on Black Bloc if that's the really the issue. But we all know that's not what happened. OWSers took pictures of anarchists and other provocateurs who showed up at protests and demanded that police arrest them. The provocateurs were completely ignored by the cops while peaceful OWSers were violently attacked.

You can apologize for police state thuggery if that is your wish. But you can't proclaim there was a need for this thuggery due to co-option and infiltration, when at best your "infiltrators" were a small band of outsiders who always remained at the fringes of the movement. Using your own logic, all that's necessary to sic the bloated government spy apparatus on any group or organization is paying a few guys in black to blend in and throw rocks.

FarLeftFist

(6,161 posts)
16. But the Black Bloc WERE present at some of these events AND have resorted to violence.
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 09:40 PM
Feb 2012

I'm ALL FOR Occupy, but the Black Bloc are anti-authoritarian right-wingers.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
21. How do you know who is 'Black Bloc' and who is not?
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 09:52 PM
Feb 2012

I'm sure your knowledge of how to identify them would be invaluable to OWS.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
18. Same tired old excuse.
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 09:49 PM
Feb 2012

Anyone you don't agree with could not have been part of the REAL OWS. Right?

Black bloc and corporatist neo-whatever-the-hell-you were-saying. Multi-syllabic nonsense.

OWS has done a lot of good. And OWS has its shortcomings because they refuse to get organized.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
26. And you know how to tell Black Bloc from, um, 'real' OWS, do you?
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 10:18 PM
Feb 2012

You might want to let everyone else know.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
20. Your
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 09:51 PM
Feb 2012
Pretending that its okay for DHS to spy on peaceful protestors..

because the movement was being "co-opted" makes absolutely no sense.

Spy on Black Bloc if that's the really the issue. But we all know that's not what happened. OWSers took pictures of anarchists and other provocateurs who showed up at protests and demanded that police arrest them. The provocateurs were completely ignored by the cops while peaceful OWSers were violently attacked.

You can apologize for police state thuggery if that is your wish. But you can't proclaim there was a need for this thuggery due to co-option and infiltration, when at best your "infiltrators" were a small band of outsiders who always remained at the fringes of the movement. Using your own logic, all that's necessary to sic the bloated government spy apparatus on any group or organization is paying a few guys in black to blend in and throw rocks.

...comments are all over the place. What the hell does any of that have to do with "corporatist neo-lib DLC hacks" trying to co-opt OWS?

I made a specific point in my comment related to violence and Black Bloc.

girl gone mad

(20,634 posts)
23. You claimed the spying was okay because OWS was being "co-opted"
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 10:14 PM
Feb 2012

Yet, the only groups trying to "co-opt" OWS have been outed as corporatist Dem party insider types, not Black Bloc Anarchists.

Where Anarchists were present at OWS, OWSers tried to expose them and have them removed. They were never a threat in terms of infiltrating the entire movement. Certainly not to any extent where it would excuse this DHS overreach.

If its violence that creates demand for spying by the Feds, then the cops should have been under surveillance, not the protestors.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
25. They were monitoring social web sites.
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 10:17 PM
Feb 2012

Public information. Hardly sounds sinister to me. Maybe unnecessary but hardly sinister.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
27. I
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 10:23 PM
Feb 2012
You claimed the spying was okay because OWS was being "co-opted"

Yet, the only groups trying to "co-opt" OWS have been outed as corporatist Dem party insider types, not Black Bloc Anarchists.


...did no such idiotic thing. I cited a statement and said it sounded routine given the fact that there has been violence.

The rest of you comment still doesn't make sense.


Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
30. Black Bloc is a tactic NOT discussed at any OO GA (other than to disavow it) thus, there is no
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 10:57 PM
Feb 2012

need to monitor OO.

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
46. Stunning cognitive dissonance as to the Bloc's participation in OWS.
Thu Mar 1, 2012, 01:24 AM
Mar 2012

Unshocking that supposed "OWS supporters" are the ones championing these PSYOPS tactics.

brentspeak

(18,290 posts)
53. So the DHS is merely trying to protect OWS' reputation
Thu Mar 1, 2012, 03:42 PM
Mar 2012

from instigator groups like the Black Bloc anarchists? That's the story you're trying to push?

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
32. I'm okay with this. The fed SHOULD keep an eye on organized groups protesting across...
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 11:03 PM
Feb 2012

protesting across the country, just in case. It's possible that other groups could use the protests by infiltrating and doing real damage. It's possible the groups could do damage to governmental agencies and services and property.

We WANT the govt to know what's going on. What would we say if something affecting the whole country, or a lone gunman shot someone, and the govt didn't even seem to know about the protests.

And actually, there was a shooting at one of the protests, and there was one rape. An abandoned child was found at one protest. At some of the protests, they were asked to keep off certain grounds because of the damage being done, and the protesters refused.

 

Better Believe It

(18,630 posts)
37. Giving up our freedoms and liberties in order to stop a rapist or gunman is wonderful!
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 11:25 PM
Feb 2012

Government surveillance of the people is necessary in order to stop comminists, pinkos and other radicalists from subverting and overthrowing the government and capitalism.

To stop a lone gunman from shooting someone, to prevent a rape or terrorist bomber we must be prepared to give up our civil liberties and rights.

The Bill of Rights is obsolete in this age of terrorism and violence.

Really.

So stop that nonsense about civil liberties, human rights and other crapola being pushed by pointy headed liberal tree huggers!



 

randome

(34,845 posts)
38. 'Giving up our freedoms'? You mean by posting on public web sites.
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 11:28 PM
Feb 2012

That's what DHS was doing, you know. Monitoring publicly accessible web sites. I don't think the Bill of Rights has anything to do with it, either.

Just sayin'.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
40. What freedom do you think has been given up? We're still free to protest.
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 11:43 PM
Feb 2012

We're still free to speak. We're free to line up on sidewalks with signs.

If you think the govt hasn't been watching groups of people who are organizing en masse across the country for years, think again. Of course they are. That's their job. If only to watch out for anarchy or group mobs or infiltration by unsavory characters.

 

Better Believe It

(18,630 posts)
44. And the government is free to place you under surveillance for subversive activities ....
Thu Mar 1, 2012, 12:23 AM
Mar 2012

which can mean and has meant any actions critical of government policies.

"We're free to line up on sidewalks with signs."

Not if a government judge issues a restraining order limiting or prohibiting such protests.

And tell that to the thousands of OWS demonstrators who have been arrested for engaging in peaceful protest activities.



vaberella

(24,634 posts)
42. Whatever...look I don't have a problem with this.
Thu Mar 1, 2012, 12:00 AM
Mar 2012

Cultists make the same claim as you, Neo-Nazi groups make the same claims also. I think all organized groups should be watched. You can do what you want, but if you go out of bounds the federal government could step in. No one is above the law.

I'm sure you want the government watching Neo-Nazi groups, just because liberals support the OWS doesn't make them above criminal acts. Because no one can control the action of some.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
34. Ok ok, so how shocked should I act now that some of the claims
Wed Feb 29, 2012, 11:09 PM
Feb 2012

made are proven right? I mean it's not like modus operandi changes from decade to decade, just the tech in question.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,235 posts)
45. Is this some lame attempt to get a waning movement back into the headlines? I don't even.....
Thu Mar 1, 2012, 01:09 AM
Mar 2012

hear of OWS anymore, except the few mentions it gets here on DU. Maybe OWS should concentrate more on organizing, and stop trying to use this administration to raise its lackluster profile.

Hey, everyone does it. The gun lobby, White Supremacists, crazy assed rightwingers, anti-choice nutcases, and now OWS? Is that really the company you wanna keep?

 

Obamacare

(277 posts)
48. I'm glad this OWS tomfoolery has quieted down
Thu Mar 1, 2012, 03:29 AM
Mar 2012

I'm sorry but I don't support those who disrespect President Obama and that goes for those disgusting teabaggers as well.

 

Better Believe It

(18,630 posts)
50. So when did it become necessary to defend the Bill of Rights on Democratic Underground ....
Thu Mar 1, 2012, 03:32 PM
Mar 2012

against government surveillance, spying and disruption of protests and protesters?

When this sort of crap happened during the Bush administration not a single DU'er defended or tried to justify government spying and other attacks on our civil liberties.

So what has changed?

Justice wanted

(2,657 posts)
52. I'm not surprised. Kind of feel sorry for those who honestly believe the Administration wasn't
Thu Mar 1, 2012, 03:36 PM
Mar 2012

so in the middle of this.


We shouldn't be surprised we should be upset.

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