Who won?*

[rug]

*(assuming this doesn't fall apart.)

11 votes, 6 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Obama
	6 (55%)
	Putin
	4 (36%)
	The Syrian people
	1 (9%)
	6 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[polichick]

1. Is the contest over so soon?

[rug]

3. It's the halftime update.

[Art_from_Ark]

35. Then wouldn't that be "Who is winning"?

At any rate, as seen from my vantage point overseas, it appears that Putin has so far been looking better than Obama with regard to Syria.　For example, the Japanese prime minister has come out in support of Putin's proposal, as reported in this Asahi Shimbun article from September 10:

http://www.asahi.com/politics/update/0910/TKY201309100382.html

[Warren Stupidity]

2. Peace won, for the moment.

[VanillaRhapsody]

9. The Syrian Civil War is over?

[Warren Stupidity]

13. No. If that were true I would have selected "the Syrian people".

But before I address your point further, can I at least know how many people are using your account?

[BainsBane]

15. There is no peace

How bizarre people keep saying that.

[Warren Stupidity]

31. I realize that it is very difficult, with the continuous media bullshit barrage,

to comprehend that we were about to commit another unilateral war of aggression against a sovereign nation. That was derailed, first by the stunning defeat of Cameron in parliament, then by the astounding opposition of the American people, and then finally, for now, by the Putin initiative.

Peace won, for now, but yes the civil war continues.

[BainsBane]

38. I understand it's difficult to comprehend

that the only lives that have value are not American, but do try. The only thing this has averted is US intervention. People are still dying, even if you don't care about them. The very notion of pretending there is "peace' makes clear you haven't thought even casually about what is happening in Syria. There is no peace. There continue to be people dying in huge numbers, even if they aren't American. Look up peace in the dictionary. It means the absence of war, not the absence of American blood being spilled.

And unlike most people around here, I rarely watch cable news. So don't accuse me of imbibing the garbage you feed off of.

And no, I don't support intervention, though I know in the Hollywood conception of foreign relations that passes for analysis by some around here, you will assume I do.

[Warren Stupidity]

39. Who do you think we were going to bomb, Americans?

[BainsBane]

40. Then why do you make an absurd comment about peace?

I cant' even imagine the cognitive dissonance that leads to that. Yes, and I can see you thought a great deal about my post. You didn't even bother to read it.

[VanillaRhapsody]

19. Just one...do you have a problem with that?

peace is subjective huh?

[randome]

26. I think you have a groupie.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

[VanillaRhapsody]

28. I think you may be right....or several.

wouldn't be the first time....

[MADem]

4. The Syrian people will stay fucked until al-Assad goes to the negotiating table, or

is deposed. Even at that, they'll still be fucked, depending on who takes the reins of power.

The long lens of history will not look kindly on Pootie Poot. Once a Soviet thug, always a Soviet thug.

[BainsBane]

16. They will be fucked as long as he's in power, period.

[MADem]

25. Not if he agreed to power sharing. We know that's unlikely, but with big enough wings a pig could

fly... nt

[wercal]

5. The entire notion of 'winning' is flawed from the beginning.

[rug]

10. I agree.

But since it's a strong enough theme, we might as well take a tally.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023657282

[davidpdx]

50. It's will only suck DU into a deeper abyss then it is already in

The issue of Syria has ripped this place apart. The notion of someone "winning" is ridiculous. If people want to play Obama against Putin let them. It doesn't mean everyone on this board wants to play that silly game.

I'll put myself with the other 12 people who have chosen not to vote. Wouldn't it be funny if that choice ended up winning?

[rug]

58. It's in second place at the moment.

[Purveyor]

6. Vlad is out front at this time but it is not over. That said and since there isn't the option of

'to soon to call'...I'll vote Putin.

[LittleBlue]

7. I vote for those who oppose war

Without everyday people who oppose war, Britain's parliament and the US congress would have caved to the war pimps.

Since you don't have that option, I'll vote for Putin because he achieved his strategic objectives at minimal cost.

[polichick]

20. I agree - the anti-war public around the world.

[leftstreet]

45. +1

[David__77]

8. I think it's too soon for that.

And also, from which perspective(s)? Achievement of longer-term strategic objectives? Shorter-term political benefit? I'd think that successful implementation of what is talked about would be a "win" for Obama from several perspectives, but it is too soon to tell what is the result in practice.

[Ptah]

11. The Road Runner

[rug]

14. Lol, you got skillz.

[Ptah]

17. Found it from your Lounge post link.

[Glassunion]

12. No one

It's war. Everyone actually loses.

[NuclearDem]

18. No one, because this isn't a game.

[randome]

23. Best reply yet.

But if I had to pick a winner, I would say the U.S. military.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

[rug]

24. No it isn't but a lot of threads read like arguments over a prizefight.

[NuclearDem]

32. Yeah, I've noticed that.

Wasn't suggesting you were a part of that. Just my opinion on the whole matter.

[orpupilofnature57]

34. +1000 !!!!

[CakeGrrl]

41. +1000

[LWolf]

56. +1

[madrchsod]

21. people actually think putin won?

what forum is this?

[MADem]

30. It's pretty funny, actually.

Funny in a "Can you believe this shit?" kind of way...

I always (mistakenly, apparently) thought DUers were smarter than the average newspaper reader.

[CakeGrrl]

43. OPTICS Underground

I suspect the President (the AMERICAN one, that is) will achieve what he wants regardless of how he is perceived in the short term.

[JI7]

22. nobody has won, but the syrian people continue to lose

[kentuck]

27. It's actually a win/win for everyone.

including you.

[applegrove]

29. LOL! Putin, beloved strongman leader of the USA

:large

[orpupilofnature57]

33. If the MIC didn't, then people did .

[LiberalAndProud]

36. If there is a winner, there is also a loser.

That seems antithetical to the very idea of diplomacy, where each side makes concessions to arrive at a common living space.

Who won? Really?

[rug]

37. That might explain the vehemence.

[orpupilofnature57]

46. From you definition People won and heads of state lost...

We ( the people ) don't have to pay for Syrians ( the people ) recieve our ( the governments ) solution .

[BainsBane]

42. No one won

The question itself is offensive. This isn't a game. People are dying. It increasingly seems the only thing people care about is besting other groups of DUers they disagree with.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

44. Putin has scored more political points, but this poll is premature.

No one else on the planet is making a concerted effort to make it look as though Obama knew what he was doing all along. He stumbled, he is now attempting to recover, and that's that. It doesn't make him a bad guy. It just means he erred in handling the situation.

[Douglas Carpenter]

48. you're quite correct - it reminds me of how President Obama got his clocked cleaned by Mitt Romney

during the first debate. Fortunately, the President came back in the next two debates and performed very, very well and redeemed himself. But in spite of how he almost threw the election with such an embarrassingly awful performance during the first debate - we still had people here claiming with a straight face that he had trounced Mitt Romney - completely disregarding all evidence and reason. No matter how much one might like someone - we have to face reality that they don't always perform at their best and sometimes they simply out and out blow it. Even my heroes (which are very few) completely blow it sometimes.

[Douglas Carpenter]

47. Obviously President Putin gained the most and put the Russian Federatiion back in the drivers seat

However, as others mentioned - it is a bit premature - because we don't know how things will play out in the big picture.

[Posteritatis]

49. Simplistic polls won, of course. (nt)

[Democracyinkind]

51. Which is, with a bit of imagination, the very point that the OP is making. nt

[HappyMe]

52. President Obama and the Syrian people.

The civil war isn't over, but at least they may not be gassed.

[NCTraveler]

53. Assad has won this battle.

All legitimacy he lost over the last few months has now been gained back on the world stage. How anyone can think the Syrian people won is beyond me. Russia will be sending Assad more weapons to make up for the possible loss of his chemical weapons, strengthening Assad even more.

[hobbit709]

54. The corporations.

[CTyankee]

55. Nobody yet is the clear winner. I think Obama is currently winning but we'll see...

I am encouraged by at least SOME international cooperation lately...

[Autumn]

57. We did. For now.

But the shit can still hit the rotating thing standing in the corner.

[Capt. Obvious]

59. I won my week 1 matchup

Abu Musab netted me an astoinishing 17 points to clinch it.

[Rex]

60. Children think this is a game.

nt.

[DLnyc]

61. With all due respect, this is a bit of a bizarre question

International relations is not the same as American Idol -- it's not just a fake contest designed to sell lots of soap. Actual people's lives are at stake . . . in fact, the survival of the human race, or at least a recognizable form of it, is quite arguably at stake.

Insofar as this development leads towards diplomacy and political settlements, and away from war and accelerating disaster, the world can count this as positive.

Insofar as this development feeds more "Rah, Rah, My Team, Boo, Hiss, Your Team", we all are losers.

Sorry, but I don't think war in the Middle East should necessarily be treated as form of entertainment.

With all due respect, sir.

[rug]

63. No offense taken. I share your sentiments.

[DLnyc]

73. Cool.

Glad to hear both of those things. Thanks.

[etherealtruth]

62. No one won

No one could

[Daniel537]

64. You have to be either a complete moron

or an apologist of mass murdering tyrants to think the Syrian people won anything in this.

[rug]

65. Do you think avoiding a military strike is not a benefit?

[Daniel537]

67. How exactly is that a benefit to Syrian civilians?

The regime keeps its military and police installations intact now to continue its assault on the people. The Assad regime now has a free pass to do as it wishes, as long as it doesn't involve chemical weapons.

[rug]

68. Hmmm, no missiles raining down on their country . . . .

Got me.

You're very persuasive.

[Daniel537]

69. You make it seem as if we were going to bomb neighborhoods.

I think you confused us with Assad. But hey, if you think Syrians who actually have to live with this tyranny on a daily basis feel much better off now, knock yourself out.

[rug]

70. You make it seem as only deserving evildoers will be killed.

[Daniel537]

71. We don't know who would have been killed with the strikes

But we do know that with the situation continuing the way it is now, evildoers certainly won't be the only ones dying on a massive scale.

[rug]

72. What's a little collateral damage among allies?

[stevenleser]

66. Obama and Putin tied and the Syrian people lost. They lose in any scenario...

... their lives are screwed for the next 10-20 years regardless.