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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNSA snoops on credit card transactions, says report
"Follow the Money" is not just a catchphrase but an actual branch within the National Security Agency that spies on payments processed by Visa and others, according to Der Spiegel.
Citing documents from 2010 leaked by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, the German news magazine reported Monday that the "Follow the Money" division funnels the data it gathers into its own financial database. In 2011, that database held 180 million records, with 84 percent of them credit card transactions.
In response to a request for comment, an NSA spokesperson sent the following statement to CNET:
The U.S. Government acquires information about economic and financial matters to combat a range of threats to the national security of the United States and its allies, including information about terrorist financing and terror networks. This information is collected through regulatory, law enforcement, diplomatic, and intelligence channels, as well as through undertakings with cooperating foreign allies and partners.
The NSA examines the transactions of customers of large credit companies such as Visa as part of its overall surveillance, Der Spiegel said. Specifically, the agency looks for international ties by targeting Visa customers in Europe, the Middle East, and Africa.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57603076-83/nsa-snoops-on-credit-card-transactions-says-report/
gopiscrap
(23,763 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)Obviously there are controls. They may be arguable ones but there are controls.
And does anyone have a better suggestion for how to track money laundering, terrorist financing, etc?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]
mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)Why is it obvious there are controls? In the last month or so, a lot of controls or limitations we were lead to believe were in place were, in fact, not in place.
randome
(34,845 posts)...regulatory, law enforcement, diplomatic, and intelligence channels, as well as through undertakings with cooperating foreign allies and partners.
Specifically, the agency looks for international ties by targeting Visa customers in Europe, the Middle East, and Africa.
That sounds like a lot of constraints on how the NSA conducts its business. Of course it could all be lies but absent evidence to the contrary, why assume that?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)I don't know more precise numbers but that sounds pretty miniscule to me when talking about the rest of the world outside America.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)They are saying that they do those things - look for international ties, etc. - but it says nothing about controls in place on abuse of the system. After finding out about LOVEINT and such, it's unreasonable to assume that just because their description doesn't include directly saying "we spy on everybody" that we can assume they don't spy on everybody.
randome
(34,845 posts)No problem here with the NSA being more transparent and less secretive. I'm just saying that the article in the OP is heavy on insinuation without even addressing the topic of what controls are in place to prevent abuse.
In other words, it's not so much informative as speculative.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]
mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)And can you trust that they actually are in place? I still don't see why "obviously there are controls in place" - I don't see anything obvious at all. However, given the recent set of articles and revalations, it would be very difficult to believe anyone from the inside saying there were controls in place, at all.
At this point, "Trust us" is guarenteed to produce the opposite result of what was intended.
Marr
(20,317 posts)Guess I got my answer.
As for tracking money laundering... well, believe it or not, it was done without just spying on people en masse at one time.
randome
(34,845 posts)Is collecting foreign transaction information the same as spying? I suppose that's arguable but it's not that big a deal to me.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)Every day brings a new turd.
gopiscrap
(23,763 posts)this is the kind of bullshit that drives me to be more and more radical everyday!
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)forums telling everyone that there is no such thing as privacy anymore because of technology still get shocked when confronted with the real life situations that bear that out.
Want privacy, wean yourself from the technology. It has be come laughable. It became laughable years ago when there was no provision set that control of a person's information stays with that person--that it does not automatically become owned by someone else who collects it.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)You cannot function in today's society without technology. Many jobs require using it. That does not mean we have to give up all our privacy.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)in the bottle. Businesses have been granted ownership of personal information and thereare too many technology cowboys out there happy to hack away. Frankly, I have been given no good reasons why the equally faceless Anonymous should be trusted any more than corporate or government consumers of this technology and software.
Th1onein
(8,514 posts)This is OUR technology. WE created it. OUR tax dollars paid for it. It belongs to US. NOT THE NSA.
We should not have to "wean ourselves from the technology" simply because one of the agencies that OUR tax dollars pay for decides to abridge OUR Fourth Amendment rights.
When all we had were phones and snail mail, would you have said that we should "wean" ourselves from those? No, you wouldn't and you didn't. There is NO DIFFERENCE NOW. These are still OUR rights to privacy, technology or no technology.
Stop apologizing for the spying.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)the technology and those who develop and use it on a large scale have done so with setting enough precedent and complicated design that it cannot be regulated any longer in the way that people would like it to be. Your privacy has not existed for a couple of decades now when it comes to the internet and electronic data. What do you think these corporations have been doing with all of that information they collect and which they claim ownership of? I'm just looking at the reality of that big ball of string that is pretty tangled by now.
Th1onein
(8,514 posts)And it is an apology to say that because of technology we should expect our own government to spy on us. It's a different matter when we give PERMISSION for companies that we trade with to use our data. If we choose not to do business with them, they can't see or use our data. But the NSA is SPYING ON US WITHOUT OUR KNOWLEDGE OR PERMISSION. It is against the fucking law; what is it about that that you don't GET? Why should WE give up our use of technology simply because THEY can't obey the law?
BelgianMadCow
(5,379 posts)http://rt.com/news/nsa-spy-visa-swift-893/
1-Old-Man
(2,667 posts)I don't think very many people have any concept of what it is the NSA does. To most the NSA is just the CIA in another guise, but that is an utterly wrong way to try and understand the Agency. They capture and collect electronic information. If its transmitted or stored electronically, whatever it is, then you can safely assume they have it. So it can be your phone calls, your e-mail, your credit information, your banking information, your health records, and I daresay your voter registration information too. If someone's got it on a computer somewhere then you can assume they have it as well. They do not use spies, they use the electromagnetic spectrum. There is no such thing as an NSA Agent, they do their jobs with wires and mathematics not schemes and guns. And virtually all of their information is from the source, not the recollections or speculations of something as arcane as a spy.
hunter
(38,325 posts)I hang my head low in Liberal Shame.
But in my defense it's the nearest big-box store to my home and no other store offers one-stop shopping for both beer and motor oil. I like to minimize my errands, and I do recycle my motor oil.
Oh dear, I confess, I have a car too.
It's an old car, mid-'eighties with a salvage title, but I don't ride my bike or walk everywhere.
The shame, the shame...
HipChick
(25,485 posts)as a prank for my old boss.. it wasn't for me