Just walked into Restaurant that allows smoking

[trumad]

Holy crap it stinks.

In Kansas City for a wedding.

Surprised that there are still areas of the country that still allow it.

Never could understand the selfishness of cigarette smokers.

[Le Taz Hot]

1. Nothing lights my asthma up

like cigarette smoke. I'd have to leave.

[trumad]

4. Florida passed the law years ago..

Probably the best law this state ever passed.

[Le Taz Hot]

7. California did too, thank goddess,

or I'd be a shut-in. I often have to enter people's houses for my job and oy! do I hate having to go into a smoker's house. By the time I'm done I'm walking out the door frantically searching for my inhaler. Gack!

[trumad]

9. it flat out stinks.

[Nay]

12. The smell is atrocious. I went to some yard sales this morning and had the misfortune to

pick up some pieces of clothing to look at -- gaaak! The cigarette smell that emanated from them was gross and overwhelming. I have no idea, really, how people can even get started smoking. It's so puke-inducing.

[fadedrose]

50. You describe perfectly

the way I felt when I used to go to church and had to inhale several varieties of perfume the women were wearing. I'm a woman but never used perfume for church, and not on an empty stomach. It actually made me nauseous and I couldn't wait to get outside and have a cigarette....

Men's aftershave mixed with the perfume made me sicker than an unwashed ashtray would...

[Nay]

51. Oh, there are lots of perfumes and men's colognes that are absolutely gagworthy.

Especially when the wearers seem to have bathed in the goddam stuff and used the same scent of deodorant and powder. There were people at my workplace who had to be taken aside and told to tone down the scents because it was making people sick. I have to say, the colognes that are now popular are especially awful -- usually, overuse of any scent is bothersome, but there are some scents that are gaggy even when they are used lightly. I don't remember Chanel No. 5 stinking when used lightly.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. Me too.

a cold does it...but cigi smoke, I almost ended up in the ER.

[Warpy]

63. Me three.

It puts me into bronchospasm and triggers migraines. It's like trying to breathe under water. It doesn't work.

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. Exactly

[leftyohiolib]

2. junkies need their fix

[notadmblnd]

3. SMH

[Agnosticsherbet]

5. Smokers in such places believe is is a violaton of their individual rights if they can not smoke.

It never occurs to them that it might be a violation of my individual rights if I have to breath in their WMD laden breath.

Mostly I think it is a Libertarian thing.

[former9thward]

37. And yours is an Authoritarian view.

But authoritarians will never admit it. Do you drive or use any type of transportation? Try breathing the poison coming out of the exhaust pipe. See how many minutes you live. It won't be many. But that is ok because that is something you do.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

54. False equivalency.

Car exhaust doesn't trigger my asthma and make me come down with bacterial bronchitis/sinus infection in 48 hours without fail.

Walking into a room with cigarette smoke DOES trigger my asthma and make me reach for an inhaler.

If they were considerate they could suck on an e-cigarette, chew nicotine gum or use a nicotine patch to get their fix.

[Jamaal510]

57. Either that,

or just smoke and get high at home.

[former9thward]

73. It is likely car exhaust caused your asthma in the first place.

Why do we have increasing rates of asthma is this country? Air pollution from industrial sources is down about 95% since 1950 from industrial sources. Cigarette smoking has almost vanished from enclosed public places. What has increased? Oh, that's right -- the number of cars. But you use it so that is ok.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

143. Please read reply #59.

It's about what pollution I was exposed to at very close range (like one foot) during childhood.

[Fawke Em]

196. Mold triggers my allergies and smoke does not.

Do I have the right to tell Mother Nature not to rain?

It's not really a false equivalency. Some people are allergic to some things that others aren't.

[trumad]

69. the old exhaust pipe argument

Possibly the stupidest fucking counter argument ever.

[former9thward]

72. Which is why your post so destroyed it...

[demwing]

99. Do you smoke?

or are you just arguing for argument's sake?

[former9thward]

101. I smoke two cigars every night.

I meet with friends and we talk, smoke and drink on the patio of the local bar. I have never smoked cigarettes. Anything else?

[demwing]

104. Sure, anyone who smokes in this day and age is a fool

It's a nasty, stinking, filthy habit, serves no positive purpose, and causes death, disease, and pollution.

Anything else?

[former9thward]

109. The source of all evil I'm sure.

[demwing]

113. Not evil, just self destructive and dumb. /nt

Unless you're encouraging others to smoke. That's pretty evil.

[former9thward]

117. Why don't you work to make it illegal?

Afterall it is just self destructive and the people who do it are dumb. Take care of us and save us from ourselves. The anti-smoking crowd seems to never want to turn off the enormous tax money smoking generates. Hmmmm........

[demwing]

122. Does something have to be illegal before you stop?

Cant you just read a tiny portion of the mountainous evidence which clearly proves that smoking is destructive to your health?

You're not even claiming addiction, which is an understandable excuse. Instead you try to make the case that smoking contributes to the economy!

From The American Lung Association website:

Smoking costs The United States Millions of Dollars Every Year:

Direct Health Care Expenditures:
$116,397,094,262

Workplace Productivity Losses:
$67,489,993,472

Premature Death:
$117,138,774,968

Total Cost to State Economy:
$301,025,862,703

Put a different way, the average retail price of a pack of cigarettes in The United States is $5.51. But the real price of a pack of cigarettes to society and to the state's economy is $18.05 per pack.

http://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/tobacco-control-advocacy/reports-resources/cessation-economic-benefits/states/united-states.html

This means that for every $1 that the sale of a pack of smokes contributes to the economy (including private profits to big tobacco), it puffs up $3.27 in health care costs and lost productivity.

Let me rephrase - anyone who smokes in this day and age is either an addict or a fool.

[former9thward]

124. Interesting you evaded the question.

Why not just make it illegal if it so destructive?

[Hekate]

155. Prohibition doesn't work and we all know it, so you're just poking sticks at people who don't agree

Keep your addiction in your own air space, and what I'll do is encourage lawmakers to just keep adding taxes onto the lethal weed, and to add regulations to prevent Big Tobacco from advertising to kids. Those two things (higher price and no ads) have been proven to prevent a lot of kids from starting in the first place.

[former9thward]

162. Keep your air pollution from your car in your own air space and we have a deal.

But of course you refuse to do that because that is your lethal habit.

[rustydog]

165. My car isn't sitting inside a casino Idling exhaust

My car at the stadium is parked while your un-filtered cigar smoke is forced into my lungs because I happen to be and air-breathing being.

At least automobiles have regulations regarding emission standards...Your totally cool cigars...not so much pally.
As for cigarettes, I don't see a catalytic converter attached to the smoker's lips...piss poor argument you're clinging to simply to justify your "right" to blow cigar smoke in my non-smoking lungs.

[former9thward]

176. Do you want to see how effective your car regulations are?

Do you want to see how effective your catalytic converter is? Try a simple experiment. Breath in cigarette smoke for two minutes. Then breath in the exhaust coming out of your exhaust pipe for two minutes. After the first one you may feel irritated and maybe even nauseous for a few minutes but then you will be as good as new. After the second one you will be dead.

[DragonBorn]

206. You sound upset.

Maybe you should leave the establishment that allows smoking if you don't agree with it. I don't understand complaining about a situation you could voluntarily leave.

Maybe your one of those people who thinks that everything should be conformed to their standards?

Is someone literally sitting next to you blowing smoke into your lungs? What kind of inconsiderate person actually blows smoke into someones face / mouth. That sounds unpleasant, even from a smoker. Why don't you walk away? Or did you mean someone was smoking within your immediate vicinity and this is hyperbole?

[Hekate]

188. Never smoked a day in my life, just inhaled my parents' second-hand smoke

But as I say, you're just poking sticks at people and not coming up with anything really constructive

[former9thward]

189. Constructive?

My suggestion to those who think cigarette smoking is the heart of the world's problems is make it illegal. And no don't say prohibition doesn't work. Bullshit. It actually does. What are people going to do -- start growing tobacco plants? Yeah, that will happen. But people that share your beliefs won't do that because government is deeply addicted to tobacco tax money. Put your money where your mouth is -- make it illegal.

[demwing]

158. 1. You cant criminalize stupidity

If you want festering, rotting, beef jerky lungs, you'll find a way to get them, regardless.

2. What's your point? That I'm a bad guy because I don't have the ability or the desire to unilaterally criminalize your inconsiderate, self-destructive, stupid behavior?

That's the addict in you speaking, or the troll.

[former9thward]

161. Beef jerky lungs?

LOL. I run 10 miles a day, 6 days a week. I suspect my lungs are better than yours.

[rustydog]

185. My brother would have said the same thing...two and a half years ago

You keep believing what you believe. Bless your heart.

[rustydog]

168. And, you can't fix stupid

[rustydog]

169. Evil,no. Ignorance....most definitely

A deep pool of ignorance

[LanternWaste]

212. Or at the very least, the genesis for a million petulant justifications.

"The source of all evil I'm sure...

Or at the very least, the genesis for a million petulant justifications.

[Agnosticsherbet]

134. And a smoker has an arrogant lack of consideration for others.

If a smoker can stick a Ford in his mouth, then they should not b allowed in restaurants and other
places where people who don't smoke fords.

I have no problem with someone smoking in the privacy of their own home. Public space belongs to everyone and no one should be required to suffer another persons personal poison.

Forcing others to partake of a cigarette when they don't want it is an Authoritarian point of view and an arrogant lack of compassion.

[former9thward]

163. Your post made my point.

Authoritarians never admit it. "Public space belongs to everyone". Cool idea. Stop polluting the public space with the poison from your car. Not willing to do that? I didn't think so.

[LanternWaste]

213. I'm under the impression that transportation is

I'm under the impression that transportation is, for all practical means, necessary for the modern post-industrial world to maintain itself. That it contains, all other things being equal, a positive return on investment. Additionally, I'm aware that between the public and the progressive governments of the world, great strides have been made in reducing auto emissions... and we continue to do so.

However, I imagine there are indeed, idiots who will justify to themselves and to others, that the same holds true for cigarettes-- that they are both required and necessary to function in the world, and pretend the two are equivalent. Though I'm rather certain you would never do something quite so sub-literate as that...

Please proceed...

[DragonBorn]

208. Public place?

A restaurant is not a 100% public space as is a park or gov building, its a private establishment that can create its own rules and regulations within reason. If you don't like the rules or a restaurant its simple, don't go their. You don't see me spending money at Chik Fil A, I don't know why you'd patronize a restaurant you so obviously disagree with.

Why do you think you have the right to force a restaurants to ban smoking? Is someone forcing you to be their?

[Agnosticsherbet]

210. Smoking is a pubic health hazard. The people serving have a right to work in a safe workspace

It is within the law to insist that workers are not exposed to carcinogens or slow poison as part of their work. A Smoker wants to poison himself in private, go for it. But the people around the smoker should not be required to breath a smoker's carcinogenic poison.

Your post proves my point. Smoking around people who don't want it and do not want to suffer the foul stench, the carcinogens, and the slow poison is an arrogant and totalitarian point of view that shows a complete lack of consideration for others and zero empathy for others.

My problem with Chick-fil-a is their arrogant, totalitarian, and prejudiced point of view in the battle for civil rights.

Restaurants should be required to be safe and acceptable to the majority of the population. Individuals should not force their bad and unhealthy habits on others.

[DragonBorn]

218. Totalitarian? Really....

Your post proves my point. Smoking around people who don't want it and do not want to suffer the foul stench, the carcinogens, and the slow poison is an arrogant and totalitarian point of view that shows a complete lack of consideration for others and zero empathy for others.

Those employees have the option of working there. If they know the establishment is a smoking restaurant, and they don't want to work in those conditions, well then they shouldn't apply there. Its simple as that. Don't want to breath in smoke, don't work or patronize a place that allows smoking.

Its like becoming a miner and complaining that the air quality is bad in mines. Well what did you expect?

You call my view "totalitarian". You use word, I do not think it means what you think it means. You're the one who thinks these smoking should be banned in these restaurants. You're the one forcing a choice on business owners.

[Agnosticsherbet]

227. So, if people don't please smokers and cater to smokers and do what smokers want

and are unwilling to work in a unhealthy workplace created by smokers, they should quit their jobs and let their families starve or just not go out in public.

You are the one who feels that if people don't cater to your every whim and let you do just what you want to do, they can shut up and starve.

You want a world where smokers set the rules and people who don't go shut up and go along like good little sheep can leave.

It is you that does not know what a totalitarian mindset is.

[Grateful for Hope]

236. This doesn't make sense

If a restaurant permits smoking, then anyone applying for a job would know this up front.

[Agnosticsherbet]

240. Restaurants and bars are public space - It makes all the sense in the world

Why restaurants and bars are 'public places'
The definition listed in the proposed ordinance reads:

"‘Public Place' means an enclosed area to which the public is invited or in which the public is permitted including, but not limited to, banks, and other financial institutions, publicly funded or owned buildings, school and college buildings, public conveyances, recreational facilities, lounges, taverns and bars, educational facilities, health care facilities, laundromats, public transportation facilities, reception areas, restaurants, retail or wholesale food production and marketing establishments including grocery stores, supermarket and stores where food items are sold for on-premises or off-premises consumption, retail service establishments, retail or wholesale stores, shopping malls, sports arenas, theaters, and waiting rooms. A private residence is not a "public place" unless it is used as a licensed child care, licensed adult day care, health care or pre-school facility."

In other words, if you are allowed to walk into a place without an invitation, it's probably public.

This is the legal reasoning used in all states that have restricted smoking from restaurants and other areas where the public congregates. Smoking constitutes a public health hazard and a danger to employees and the public. The public and employees have a reasonable expectation that they will not be exposed to toxic carcinogens.

[rustydog]

164. Smoking is a personal choice made by the smoker

I live 25 miles away from work. I have to drive or, take transit (either one pollutes the atmosphere) I can move closer to work, your next obvious reply...but then how do I go shopping for food, clothing, go to the coast for a weekend?

Smoking was a choice that I made (don't forget the massive advertising campaigns in the glory days that made smoking too fucking cool) Stars smoked, athletes smoked, it was medicinal!!! If you're stressed out, HAVE A SMOKE AND CALM DOWN!

I smoked since I was 17 years old. I'm pushing sixty now. I haven't lit up for (like a recent OP) 23 years. I do not detest smokers, in fact, I miss it to this day. I will never intentionally smoke again, but when I enter a casino, there I am smoking again, someone's secondhand smoke. Same outside a stadium, at the park or some public place.

I do notice the nasty odor of the heavy smoker. It does cling to clothing and remain in the area well after you have left. rooms have that musky, stanky stink of stale smoke. Ever ride in a smokers car?

Back in the day did you ever ride aboard airliners or Greyhounds that had the "separate" smoking section at the rear of the craft? DAMN that was nasty and gaggy.

Smoking always has been and always will be a personal choice and your "right" does not infringe or overrule my right not to smell your stinky smoke or breathe in your second-hand smoke polluting my lungs with untreated exhausts.

By the way, do you know what a smoker's nightmare is? Your doctor saying:"X-rays show you have lung cancer", like my younger brother heard two years ago.

[Agnosticsherbet]

173. Breathing is an autonomic action that we can not control and must do to live

My grandfather smoked until the day he died of lung cancer at 99. My mother, father, and both step fathers smoked.

I didn't take up smoking because one step father caught me stealing a pack of his Winstons to try them out. ("Winston tastes good like a cigarette should" or so the old commercial jingle went.) He made me eat that pack of Winston cigarettes, including the tobacco, paper, filters, cellophane, and wrapper.

His reason for doing that was that I took something of his and he wanted to make sure I never did that again. What he did was create such a revulsion for cigarettes that I didn't start, even when hanging out with the cool crowd. (He died of Lung Cancer at 65)

My argument against smoking in public, and yours, is that it is a personal choice. No one should ever force a personal choice on anyone else.

(I lived in Vegas for years. I go back only to visit relatives and hate casinos.)

[former9thward]

174. Thanks for the first rational response.

And I agree with some of your points. But the bigger picture is that smoking often gets blamed for things it has nothing to do with. If a 350 pound smoker dies of heart failure the death is attributed to smoking. When I was getting my M.S. in Public Health one of the first things they taught us was how deeply flawed many and even most "studies" are. So I always question whenever someone asserts a study has "proven" something. And some things just have no science at all behind them. I know you will disagree but your statement about second hand smoking by being in a park or outside a stadium is simply unscientific. I could use air samplers to prove that. My general point is we tend to ignore the big things that we can't control, such as cars, and go after the small things and demonize them.

[pnwmom]

192. Most progressives also want to limit what is coming out of those exhaust pipes,

even though transportation does have an important social value, unlike cigarette smoking.

[former9thward]

193. Its just junk science to blame cigarette smoke and ignoring the elephant in the room.

If you directly breathe exhaust you will die quickly. People who commit suicide like to use that method. Where do you think that poison goes? Yet that is ignored by anti-smoking fanatics as a cause of health issues.

[pnwmom]

194. It's junk science to think that the percent of pollutants in the outside air in the U.S.,

where exhaust emissions are now tightly regulated, exposes people to the same danger as a roomful of smoke caused by a chain smoker.

And it's junk science to think that because you're exposed to toxins from auto emissions, it doesn't worsen the risk to inhale cigarette smoke.

[former9thward]

200. If you had bothered to read the thread.....

Instead of jumping in you would have known that a poster I was replying to said someone smoking somewhere in a park would affect him. To say that and say that thousands of cars going around that park does not affect him is, yes, junk science. I will be waiting for you to link to a scientist who says someone smoking outside in a park affects anyone else.

[pnwmom]

202. I've been parks listening to music, breathing in clouds of smoke coming from smokers

in front of me. I've also walked through clouds of smoke coming from clusters of smokers congregated just outside doorways.

I've never been that close to the exhaust coming out of a car's tailpipe -- and these days the tailpipe exhaust has much less particulate than it used to.

[former9thward]

203. I don't advise breathing your exhaust.

You will be dead in two minutes. That is why it is the preferred method for people committing suicide. It is painless, very effective and does not disfigure the body if you worry about that type of thing. I still await a scientist who will back up your junk science.

[pnwmom]

204. I don't breathe my exhaust. But sometimes I'm stuck breathing in your smoke. n/t

[former9thward]

205. "I don't breathe my exhaust"

More junk science. Yes you do. And thousands of others.

[pnwmom]

207. I don't breathe in clouds of unfiltered exhaust. Most of it quickly dissipates in the air or falls

the the ground. Smokers' fumes dissipate also, and the particulate falls to the ground, but sometimes I'm too close to avoid the fresh clouds, unlike car exhaust.

If there was a running car in front of me in the park, spewing its exhaust in my face while I listened to music, I wouldn't be happy about that, either. Or a group of running cars clustered by an outside door, exposing everyone who exits to a lungful of fresh fumes.

[frylock]

197. i drive to work in my car..

I drive to work to make money, because I need money for rent, food, and other stuff. now tell me about how you ride your cigarette to work, and how that has fuckall to do with the OP.

[former9thward]

201. Your car pollutes more than ten thousand cigarette smokers.

But go ahead and blame cigarettes for all the world's problems. Junk science.

[rustydog]

229. Do you bother to back up your claims with scientific FACTS

or do you simply visit the gastroenterologist for the massive bleeding from pulling so much crap straight out of your ass?

[Travis_0004]

125. I have an idea. Why don't you go to a business that doesn't allow smoking.

Even in Kansas, there are going to be restaurants that ban smoking. If enough people refused to go to a place that allowed smoking (since 70% of people don't smoke), then businesses would ban smoking since it would be more profitable.

[Agnosticsherbet]

135. So the majority who don't smoke must stay out of public space and public businesses

because a minority wants to pursue a filthy unhealthy habit that potentially endangers the health of others. Sounds just like the Republican Congress that wants to create a government for the 1%.

Public spaces and public businesses should be available to everyone, and no one should suffer because of one persons bad habits.

[pintobean]

136. Think of smokers as

occupiers.

[Agnosticsherbet]

137. Certainly one way to look at it.

[rustydog]

166. With cancer

[Grateful for Hope]

237. Restaurants are not public space

They are privately owned and therefore private space.

[Agnosticsherbet]

239. Within the law the restaurants and bars are public spaces - see the link

Why restaurants and bars are 'public places'
The definition listed in the proposed ordinance reads:

"‘Public Place' means an enclosed area to which the public is invited or in which the public is permitted including, but not limited to, banks, and other financial institutions, publicly funded or owned buildings, school and college buildings, public conveyances, recreational facilities, lounges, taverns and bars, educational facilities, health care facilities, laundromats, public transportation facilities, reception areas, restaurants, retail or wholesale food production and marketing establishments including grocery stores, supermarket and stores where food items are sold for on-premises or off-premises consumption, retail service establishments, retail or wholesale stores, shopping malls, sports arenas, theaters, and waiting rooms. A private residence is not a "public place" unless it is used as a licensed child care, licensed adult day care, health care or pre-school facility."

In other words, if you are allowed to walk into a place without an invitation, it's probably public.

This is the legal reasoning used in all states that have restricted smoking from restaurants and other areas where the public congregates.

[Grateful for Hope]

241. Also apparently within the law

Is that restaurants of a certain size can choose to allow smoking.

My point was that anyone can choose not to frequent those restaurants that allow it.

Or, perhaps you would like to see the government mandate all privately-owned restaurants ban smoking.

[Agnosticsherbet]

242. California bans smokeing in all enclosed public spaces (restaruants and bars are public spaces)

as do several other stats. They do so because smoking creates a public health hazard. It is a very enlightened and liberal state. Individual cities can have stricter laws if they chose.

Each state has its own rules. The states shown below have no rules.

As of June 2013, 10 states have not enacted any general statewide ban on smoking in any non-government-owned spaces: Alabama, Alaska, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas, West Virginia, and Wyoming. Instead,

What is it about Conservative led red states that they insist on minority rule. According to the CDC, in 2011 21.6% of adult men and 16.5% of adult women smoked. A small minority has every right to use legal dangerous substances in private. They have no right to force the majority to use those legal, dangerous substances in public spaces, including restaurant's and bars.

Note: A lot of the states also have an exception for adults only venues such as bars, strip clubs, and casinos.

Final Note: Right wing conservative/libertarian type business owners went bug shit when California finally moved to stop smoking in bars, saying it would drive them out of business. Surprise, surprise, surprise, those right wing conservative/libertarian type business owners are still in business. People adapt to sane and well considered regulations that promote pubic safety.

[Grateful for Hope]

243. Thanks for the info

However, I am glad to see that all states are not like California.

[Agnosticsherbet]

244. If California didn't exist, other states would not have a safe, liberal, progressive place to

emulate, someday.

[Grateful for Hope]

245. In some ways, Yes

[HappyMe]

6. I didn't think that you

could smoke anywhere inside any more.

[trumad]

8. nope... not this place

I see a guy across the way smoking and eating at the same time.

[HappyMe]

10. That's ridiculous.

[Fawke Em]

198. In Tennessee, you can smoke in bars if the owner allows it.

And the smoking bars are ALWAYS more popular than the non-smoking ones.

But, then again, people (like me) who don't smoke regularly do smoke when they're out drinking with friends. It's fairly common around here, actually.

[Go Vols]

217. In restaurants too

But no one under 21 is supposed to be allowed inside although that rule is hardly enforced where I live in Tenn.

I was in Mo. last week and when I checked into the hotel they asked if I wanted a smoking or non smoking room.

[Le Taz Hot]

11. Wait!

Trumad, is that Kansas City, Kansas or Kansas City, Missouri? I'm supposed to be in Missouri (Branson -- goddess help me! -- I'm still hoping to come down with a sudden case of some temporary, horrible disease to get me out of this) in a couple of weeks and if Missouri still allows smoking in restaurants, I'm screwed.

[trumad]

14. I think most say no to it.

This is a small breakfast cafe in Gladstone...just out of KC.

[MuseRider]

53. It is a suburb of KC

and is in Missouri.

[pintobean]

13. You could have walked out.

[trumad]

15. awww waiting for the first could have walked out post.

Nah...no place else to eat around here. I toughed it out.

Still stinks like shit though.

[pintobean]

17. "no place else to eat around here"

Yeah, most cities are like that.

[trumad]

20. you have no idea where my location is...

But it's you and you can't help yourself.

[pintobean]

22. "In Kansas City"

I took you at your word, but that's just me.

[trumad]

31. Gladstone as was mentioned above..

That's just you....yep---that's just you.

[pintobean]

36. I quoted the OP

It was an accurate quote of your words. I didn't see that you had gotten more specific in a sub-thread. That was addressed in post #28, so I didn't see the need to repeat it. The point being that there most certainly were other places to eat. Being you, go ahead and pretend there wasn't.

[trumad]

42. you're a funny dude.

[REP]

232. Just an FYI - Gladstone is not KCMO. It's at least a 30 minute drive from KCMO

Not that anyone in their right mind would drive to that armpit. Unless they've completely paved it over in the last 15 years or shoved it in a pit - that's one horrible little town.

[Ptah]

78. okay

[trumad]

82. I went for breakfast... not tacos or Pizza.

I am impressed though that you can you teh Googles.

[enlightenment]

28. Interesting.

A quick google seems to indicate quite a few restaurants in Gladstone - you must have chosen a very small one, since the city ordinance prohibits smoking in a restaurant that seats 50 or more.

I'm sure they appreciated your business, though.

[trumad]

29. Well then...next time I need a restaurant that seats more than 50

I'll PM you for advice.

ugg.

[enlightenment]

47. You started it.

Consider your OP a win, Trumad. You wanted to make a statement and play a bit of a martyr this morning. 90% of the folks who responded gave you the affirmation you wanted, so it should all be rosy. I found it interesting that you chose to suffer through for what was probably a wasted meal when you could have given the manager a sneer and backed out in a huff once you got a whiff of the place.

So yeah - next time you're in Gladstone, go to a larger restaurant.

[trumad]

70. oh...ok

Thanks for the advice.

[rustydog]

167. Somehow, the idea of a smoker having the right to pollute my lungs is ok with you

the simplistic, and it is simplistic at it's best, statement: Well. go somewhere else!!!!
Well, don't get cancer! Well, don't get shot in the face!

Sorry, your "Right" does not supersede my right not to breathe your smoke into my lungs...Go smoke in your home if you want to smoke go smoke in your car, smoke when your kids are present, because your rights trump theirs....

[enlightenment]

180. I don't smoke.

And there are a lot of times in life when you have the opportunity to make decisions. The road you choose to take is your own.

[Nye Bevan]

18. What about the workers who are involuntarily exposed to the smoke?

Ah yes, this is the point where as far as quite a few DUers are concerned the economy suddenly becomes wonderful, plenty of jobs are available, and they cease to care about employee rights, and they post "oh, they can always get a job somewhere else that doesn't allow smoking".

[Enrique]

19. that's a very good point

[fadedrose]

16. I smoked for at least 52 years

I quit 6 years ago when I was 57. My sister died in her late 70's and she smoked till then (cut back tho, because her husband objected to it).

Everytime I went to the doctor's they told me that I had clear lungs and they couldn't get over it.

Everybody does not get lung cancer, and I must be one of them. What I did get was relaxation and comraderie in restaurants, bars, park benches, etc., people who smoked were naturally friendlier.

I quit because I was tired of being ostracized by everyone everywhere including my family, and got tired of standing in the cold puffing away. I miss it still. And it was too expensive.

If I knew when I was going to die, say, maybe 2-3 weeks before, I'd buy maybe 6 cartons of cigarettes and ask everyone not to visit me, and just happily smoke away till the end.

I don't know of anyone whose company was more pleasurable to me than a cigarette.

There should be public places where one could smoke and nonsmokers should just stay out and do their coughing on the sidewalk where smokers stood to smoke...

[Nye Bevan]

21. Plus, it's so much fun laundering your stinking clothes the next day.

I had to do that often after spending an evening in a smoky bar (no other kind at the time) even though I have always been a non-smoker.

[alphafemale]

23. You started smoking when you were....FIVE?

Surely you mistyped something?

But you obviously meant this:

"I don't know of anyone whose company was more pleasurable to me than a cigarette."

[fadedrose]

25. No, I was 17, in the bathrooms in High School....

Last edited Sat Sep 21, 2013, 10:07 PM - Edit history (1)

Started when I was 17, smoked for 52 years. Quit when I was 69 and haven't smoked for 6 years to my present age of 75.


Except that I should have said Coffee and a Cigarette...and good ventilation. Bars should have good ventilation.

[alphafemale]

128. Okay. Because it reads you smoked for 52 years and quit when you were 57.

You can still edit that.

[Ilsa]

26. no, no, poster is 63. Must have started at age 11. nt

[RebelOne]

45. I am 74 and have been smoking since I was 16.

I only quit twice in my life and that was the two times I was pregnant. It made me sick to just look at a cigarette. But immediately after the kids were born, I started smoking again to lose the baby fat. If I could just trick my body into thinking it was pregnant, I could quit. It is an awful addiction. I could quit eating easier than I could quit smoking. Many years ago, I had a cocaine habit, but I moved from Miami up here to North Georgia where I did not know any dealers, so I have not touched that stuff since 1989.

But I would not even think of doing cocaine now because I have high blood pressure and it would probably give me a stroke or heart attack.

[Logical]

114. What a sad and depressing post. n-t

[Douglas Carpenter]

140. +10000

[Amaya]

24. That's sad

Life must be difficult .....hang in there

[trumad]

30. No it's actually wonderful and healthy.

[bigwillq]

32. I smoke, but love smoking bans in restaurants.

If people want to smoke, they can just go outside.
I feel like I am a pretty considerate smoker. I make every attempt not to smoke right in front of people.

[trumad]

33. Not saying all smokers are inconsiderate..

but there were quite a few at the place I just left. I saw several small children in the place--- either the parents smoked or simply did not care about the second hand smoke---or both.

[bigwillq]

35. Didn't say you were.

And, yes, there are some that are really inconsiderate.
I hate when folks smoke right in front of kids, or anyone for that matter, but kids especially.
Smoking is a slippery smoke.
It's legal in a lot of place to smoke, but then I understand that it affects other people's sensitivities and health, so I do what I can to minimize other people's exposure to my habit.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

59. I have scar tissue in my lungs because my parents smoked when I was little.

I've seen it on an X-ray when I was going through years of respiratory hell.

Dad stopped when the Ochsner Clinic in New Orleans first published reports that linked smoking with lung cancer. That was in the early 1960s when I was in elementary school.

Mom stopped smoking a bit later when I was in fifth grade. She smoked unfiltered Marlboros.

I spent my entire childhood with a runny nose due to the parental smoking, an unsealed and un-airconditioned house, dirty and dusty, and a hot humid climate with a 12 month growing season and my terrible allergies. Nobody noticed. I just got yelled at in school for blowing my nose all the time. This was before they had prescription medicines for allergies.

One more thing the teachers and the little bastards warehoused in school could chew me out for.

[Tikki]

38. Here is why I quit...the ole' 'you can go outside' thing...

I would go outside every time I smoked leaving a little grand baby leaning against the back door crying for me..
We went to a restaurant..I would excuse myself while I went outside to smoke breaking away from the fun
conversations going on inside.
We went to a movie, the zoo, a motel...always outside...away from the family.

Sure..I cut down the times I smoked a cigarette..and then I realized this just isn't working out to
mine or anyone's satisfaction....

So I Quit...


Tikki
p.s...I do thank the people of California for helping realize where my priorities truly were.

[RebelOne]

55. I am a smoker, but I respect the no-smoking rules

in restaurants. But I do light up as soon as I leave the restaurant.

[BlueJazz]

34. Well...learned something today. I thought smoking was prohibited in ALL indoor places...

....except homes, of course.

[TheDeputy]

39. Don't like it? Eat somewhere else.

I am pro-choice.

[trumad]

40. pro choice?

So you think that there should be no ban for indoor smoking.

You libertarians are so cute.

[TheDeputy]

46. Freedom to smoke, to abort, to marry.

I favor it all.

[The Straight Story]

48. The point is allowing choice, of customers and businesses. Freedom for adults

to associate, choose where to eat, etc. You had a choice. People who want to eat there have a choice.

Some want to remove choices from people - it is not, nor has it been about smoking anymore than women choosing to have abortions is about, as the rw tries to put it, killing the unborn (or whatever their phrase of the week is).

It boils down to freedom and the ability to choose what to do with your body, when, where, etc.

Don't want to allow guns in your coffee shop? Good for you, your business, your choice. How would people like it if we said you had to?


Oh wait, don't tell me....people would complain here about it infringing on their rights, being forced to do something, etc. Funny how they clam up suddenly when it is something they don't like.

Probably because they never held a truly PROGRESSIVE (not libertarian) view of freedom of choice.

But oh how easy it is to try to dismiss an argument by labeling people.

[Kermitt Gribble]

52. Great post! eom

[Curmudgeoness]

60. This is one of the things that sticks in my craw about some progressives.

They want to give freedom of choice to everything that they believe in, but they want to curtail freedom of choice when they disagree.

I have always held the opinion that it should be the choice of each restaurant owner whether there is smoking permitted. If one decision or the other benefits them, it shows that it is the will of the customer where they will spend their money. And all sides of the issue have freedom---the business owner, the non-smoker, and the smoker.

This argument always reminds me of the conference I went to for sustainable living, where everyone but me was a vegetarian who would not wear leather. These people were relentless at persecuting me for my shoes, my clothes, my purse, etc. I did not feel that they were interested in freedom.

[trumad]

66. libertarian bullshit

Progressive my ass. Phony fucking libertarians pretending to be Progressives.

Too funny

[The Straight Story]

103. So I can put you down as being favor of legislation that bans abortions after 20 weeks right?

Or how about any restrictions on abortion? Any? At all?

If you don't believe there should be does that make YOU a libertarian (see how easy it is to label someone and not address the issue?)

Do you happen to have a list of freedoms adults have that you would like to remove? How about - no smoking in a garage with friends during a ball game in case one person who wants to hang out doesn't smoke - or what if the ambulance has to show up? They could be exposed.

How about driving cars? Put someone in a garage for two hours with a running car, they die. Do that with a smoker, they don't. So cars are more harmful to the air we breath and why should people be allowed to drive so much? How about mileage caps, you can only drive to places the government approves, etc?

Oh crap, if I am against that I am also gonna be called a libertarian.

Oh wait, I know...be against freedoms for individuals and you can call yourself a liberal. But only against some freedoms. Not sure which ones yet. I promise I will work harder to add more restrictions to the lives of others (smaller sodas and such) if it will help get me street cred as a progressive.

[rustydog]

170. Do you have your right to pollute your children's lungs?

What say do they have in your RIGHT that supersedes all other rights.

[The Straight Story]

186. With a car, coal from electricity, perfume, etc, which item are you talking about?

The ones you don't do?

[rustydog]

191. Although we have a LONGGGG way to go, there are anti-pollution regulations in place and they work

Have you seen the photos of our major cities in the 30's, 40's and 50's? Probably not because the buildings wer obscured from the vile pollution that clogged our cities for decades until, what kids? REGULATIONS on coal powered plants, on automobile exhausts...You conveniently chose to ignore that FACT.

I am referring (as you well know) to your claimed right to smoke when and where ever you wish.
I'm asking if you have the same "fuck you" attitude to children living under the same roof as the smoker?
Is it their tough luck they have an uncaring parent?

perfume? last time someone died from cancer from perfume was????? when???

[snappyturtle]

233. I want to tell you something: I have asthma. The smell of some perfumes

sends me to my knees gasping for breath. I have to choose low people
volume times to grocery shop to avoid those 'inconsiderate' people
who choose to wear personal fragrances...or those high powered
male deodorants. Of course, there's always the scattered powdered
laundry detergent escaping from a box in the laundry detergent aisle or
the perfumes and scents in a church or store, like Easter lilies, or the gift
shops with potpourri or, recently fertilized golf courses or, or..............

Yes, I grew up in a highly
polluted area in the 50's....with the reduction of standards, courtesy of
bush, some of the cities now are pushing it for me. I guess it's one
small gift that so much industry has left the country. Now I live on
a urban pennisula....cars on three sides of my apartment studio where
I live and work.....trust me they are a huge factor in my breathing
difficulties....cigarette smoking, outside, nope, that's minor for me.
I have never told any of this before.....we're all exposed to a lot and
I think blaming smokers for our all ills is misplaced. So perfume may not
give me cancer but it can literally choke the life out of me. Dead is dead.

So, what do I do? I adjust. We need to get our priorities straight. Why
don't I hear such vitriol over the loss of our 4th,5th and 6th Amendment
rights thanks to the NSA and NDAA? I would venture that the GMO crop
products do more harm to children than smoke...or the high frutose corn
syrup, or.............IMHO

[bunnies]

71. Exactly.

This is like a non-drinker going into a bar and complaining that people are getting drunk.

Gawd forbid theres an establishment left in this country that lets grown adults engage in legal activity. More nanny state bullshit from people who love to judge. Dont like smoking? Dont go to a place that allows it.

Youd think its rocket science.

[gollygee]

79. It's an OSHA issue

It isn't illegal because of people who could choose one restaurant or another. It's illegal because people who work in smoky restaurants get sick, and deserve to have a safe workplace.

[Bonx]

97. EXACTLY. I wish the cigfools would realize this. -nt

[rustydog]

171. Smoke filtered cigarettes, they're better for you than cigars and unfiltered butts!

right, right?

[onethatcares]

41. ex smoker here

smoked for 42 years and quit cold turkey. I think it's cool to see smoke coming out of peoples mouths and noses, like dragons or sumpin, and the smell is to die for.

Next to making it with my s.o., I'd rather be licking ashtrays.

[rustydog]

172. I am glad I have not smoked for over 20 years

But when I talk to people about and make that smoking motion: two fingers to lips, inhaling deeply, exhaling...GOD I'd kill for a cigarette at that moment. That is how powerful that drug is.

[NuclearDem]

43. I prefer to not smoke inside.

Even in the restaurants that allow it here (specifically a Denny's up the road in Anderson), I still prefer to head outside to do so. I know how much it stinks and how some people can't handle it.

[Nine]

44. Between this and the Grand Theft Auto thread, it almost seems like you're just trying to pick fights

"I went to a restaurant that allows smoking and boy did it stink!"

"My two sons are playing GTA right now and they sure are loving it!"

There are issues here worth discussing, but it just feels to me like you're itching for a brawl.

[Logical]

115. Argue with yourself! n-t

[whttevrr]

151. Modus Operandi

This particular OP author revels in their perceived superiority of self. We are all merely children in comparison. He/She is almost never polite nor willing to discuss an issue without poking a proverbial finger into someone's eye.

O bene, sit id quod est

[TransitJohn]

49. That's some good old fashioned flame-bait!

[trumad]

68. only flame bait to libertarians.

Good.

[bunnies]

74. Do you also go to bars and complain about drunks?

Makes about as much sense as complaining about smokers in a smoking establishment.

[trumad]

84. Read my Op again...

I was surprised that they still allowed cigarette smoking in restaurants. For fuck sake-- cracking up here at the poor whittle cigarette smokers I've offended.

[bunnies]

105. I dont smoke.

But I also dont frequent places that allow it and then call smokers "selfish".

[rustydog]

175. A drunk's alcohol (unless the loser pukes all over you) is inside the fucking DRUNK

The smoker (I am an ex-smoker) exhales and you get to breathe in that shit. the smoke emanating from the end of the cigarette, pipe, joint, cigar, hookah...whatever the fuck one smokes....that smoke is going into the non-smokers lungs whether they want it to or not...try another argument please....

[bunnies]

190. Right.

But nobody forced him trumad to go to the one place in the country that still allows smoking. I really dont get the argument that smokers are being "selfish" by smoking in a place its allowed. He went there by his/her own choice.

[TransitJohn]

91. No, actually, it's just generic old fasioned flame bait, as old as dial in BBS

You're trolling in the classic sense. But we get our kicks where we can, I guess.

[trumad]

96. no John

I walked into a restaurant that allowed smoking which surprised me because I thought all states stopped it.

The place fucking stunk.

You really do think that I was baiting the oh....10 fucking remaining smokers here on DU to come out and fight.

Please. ... fighting people who rationalize smoking is a waste of fucking time. Let them fucking kill themselves for all I care....don't take the rest with you.

[indie9197]

131. it is spelled M-O-R-O-N n/t

[pintobean]

132. ...

[graywarrior]

58. There's a bloody battle going on in the apt buildings where I live

Smokers vs non-smokers. I quit in 1977 and now the smoke gives me migraines. The smokers act like the non-smokers want to take their guns away.

[Jamaal510]

61. What gets me is how people smoke at bus stops,

even though it is illegal to do so (at least here in CA). I don't have this problem anymore because I now stay in an area where I could walk nearby to campus, but I used to hate inhaling the smoke as I was waiting for the bus at the Eastmont Transit Station every morning. People can easily just smoke in the comfort of their own homes, but no...they want to do it out in public and have those of us who suffer from asthma inhale that garbage.

[kiva]

65. I quit 6 years ago,

so don't have a dog in this fight, but want to point out that discussions like this used to make me crazy when I did smoke. This thread is flamebait, pure and simple- the OP chose to go into an eat in a restaurant that allows smoking - gee, you think some people might be smoking in there?

You want people to smoke in their homes, but if their homes are apartments or condos or townhouses some people don't want them to smoke there. Step outside or onto a balcony? No, then people complain that is goes in their windows.

Bottom line is this - until smoking is made illegal people will smoke in public. Providing smokers with safe, covered spaces with ashtrays is the best way to keep the rest of us away from the smoke and keep the area free of cigarette butts. Unfortunately the "I don't do this so no one else should" attitude in society keeps us from doing the smart thing, so instead we all complain about smokers congregating around doorways and covered areas (especially when it's raining) and tossing cigarette butts (we got rid of the ashtrays to discourage smoking).

Personally I think we should just make it illegal and get it over with - of course, that would extend to any sort of smoking, so may not be all that popular of an idea.

[Warpy]

62. They're just like any other addict

and blind to what the drug is doing to them and to everyone around them.

I know there are restaurants I've walked into that I've had to walk back out of immediately because of poor ventilation and thick clouds of smoke. And I'd go at unpopular times, like 11:30 when they first opened for lunch. They were still reeking from the breakfast crowd that was gone by 9:30.

I'm living in paradise now, smoking banned in public indoor places. Some small insurance offices allow smoking. I don't go to them. I can't.

[Comrade Grumpy]

75. And some people are judgmental pricks. It takes all kinds, I guess.

[Comrade Grumpy]

76. The smoking ban in bars hasn't gone over too well in a town I frequent.

One bar built a non-attached add-on room and stuff the gap with insulation to abide by the law. Now, most of the business in the bar is in the smoking room.

One bar just ignores it.

One bar, I have to wait longer to order my drink because the bartender is out back smoking.

[Warpy]

81. In the case of smoking, some people are made ill by it

and smokers are the judgmental pricks.

I've lived on near house arrest for most of my life thanks to those judgmental pricks who think their addiction is more important than my right to breathe. Judgmental pricks think I'm a drama queen, a whiner, anti freedom, and all that other good crap. I think they can smoke outdoors instead of indoors. Silly me, how judgmental.

So take that post and put it where it belongs.

[Comrade Grumpy]

222. I would be happy not to share any space with you, smoking or otherwise.

[Warpy]

224. Then we're done.

Oh, and (_|_).

[bunnies]

64. Damn them for smoking in a place its allowed.

Selfish bastards!

[trumad]

86. Smoking allowed in a restaurant surprised me..

that's all...simply because those who smoke around others in a place like a restaurant are selfish fuckers.

[bunnies]

157. whereas you thinking everyone should bend to your will...

isnt selfish at all. Nope. Not one bit. Its not like there are any places in the whole town that dont allow smoking. And of course you couldnt have chosen one of those.

[DragonBorn]

209. Hypocritical?

Are you sure your not the selfish one who is mandating everything conform to your standards? There are thousands of restaurants, go patronize one that doesnt allow smoking and quit being so self rightious.

Do you also go to concerts and complain about the loud music?

[KansDem]

77. Was it in Kansas City, Kansas or Kansas City, Missouri?

There's a difference!



(I only say this because I live in one and work in the other).

[trumad]

83. Gladstone..on the MO side

[KansDem]

92. Missouri voted for gambling in 1984...

The casinos have helped preserved the smoking culture.

[Robb]

80. Inconsiderate smokers, like people who are assholes about their guns,

...have made it difficult for the considerate and reasonable within their ranks to even register on everyone else's radar, despite their doubtless majority standing.

Most people are not assholes, but assholes make up for it with volume.

[SomethingFishy]

85. True.. in all aspects of life...

I'm actually trying to quit. Have moved to E-cigs. However I never once refused to put out a cigarette when asked and most of the time I did my best to keep from smoking around anyone it bothered.

[chieftain]

87. I don't smoke but have lived around smokers all my life.

I never noticed the stink until my company went smoke-free. From my experience, it is likely that smokers are so inured to the smell that it doesn't register with them.
I do think that tobacco is addictive and a little bit of compassion ought to be extended to smokers instead of the moral superiority that some engage in.

[Egalitarian Thug]

88. And just how busy was this place?

[trumad]

89. Pretty busy.

mostly smokers.

[Egalitarian Thug]

95. That's what we see here as well. Smoking is allowed in casinos and bars, so most off strip

restaurants have a "bar" area that's always packed while the restaurant has plenty of seating.

[pintobean]

111. So, most non-smokers

were smart enough to go elsewhere. I imagine the other non-smokers who were there realize it was their choice and haven't been whining about on the internet all day.

[rustydog]

177. Non smoker realized he/she had no choice and wanted to gamble...What happens in vegas stays in vegas

except for the smoke you were forced to inhale while you gave the casino thousands of your dollars...
I've been in casinos that have really great air-handling equipment and you really don't notice the smoke until you smell your clothing upon exiting!

Smoking is bad, it is bad for you and it is bad for the person standing next to you at the stadium, in the parking lot, in the casino in the restaurant. So if I go to the restaurant sit down order my meal....do I have to leave when you come in and light up because you smoke and your right supersedes mine?

[Walk away]

90. I don't smoke and I hate the smell but I why can't there be smoker's...

bars and restaurants? I honestly don't get it.

[Nye Bevan]

98. Because exposing employees to noxious fumes as a condition of their employment is inhumane.

And please don't respond "oh, they can just get a job somewhere else". If the only job a poor non-smoking single mother can find is as a waitress in a restaurant that allows smoking, she will probably take it, at the expense of her health and possibly her life.

Laws protecting workers' health and safety exist because unions fought hard for them. We should not turn back thd clock.

[Throd]

107. Had to go with the "single mother" scenario to make your case.

She has to work there for the rest of her life?

Are you saying a privately owned business can't cater to smokers who want to be there while they smoke their smokey smokes?

ps. I was never a smoker.

[Nye Bevan]

110. "The customers loved her. And they gave her cancer."

Ottawa Citizen
Published: October 10, 2002

In a decision that could set a precedent for hospitality workers across Canada, a non-smoking Ottawa waitress who was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer after decades of working in smoky restaurants has been awarded worker's compensation.

The Ontario Workplace Safety and Insurance Board ruling in favour of Heather Crowe's claim has "opened a door other people will be able to open," said her lawyer, Phil Hunt.

Ms. Crowe, 57, worked 12 hours a day, six days a week in restaurants, bars and hotels for 40 years, including 15 years at Moe's World Famous Newport Restaurant on Richmond Road.

The customers loved her. And they gave her cancer.

She discovered three lumps in the side of her neck. In March, an X-ray found a tumour the size of her hand in her chest.

Doctors told Ms. Crowe she had less than a year to live. Last night, Ms. Crowe, who is undergoing chemotherapy, said she is "very happy" the ruling will protect other restaurant workers.

She said she never realized she was in danger. "I got really angry. I thought this isn't fair. And now the chemo's brought me to my knees," she said last night. "I'm eating ice crystals and all because of someone else's habit."

http://www.kiiss.org/rest/articles/article_ottawa.html

Hey, let's allow factories to expose their workers to toxic chemicals, too! After all, they "don't have to work there for the rest of their lives"!

[Throd]

118. Would you please answer the question I posed to you?

About the business that caters to smokers.

I think if you want to open a restaurant where you can huff spray paint out of a plastic bag you should be able to do so.

ps. I have never been a paint huffer.

[Nye Bevan]

119. Yes. Of course businesses should be allowed to forcibly expose their employees to toxic fumes.

Because it's more important to allow people to satisfy their addiction indoors, while they are eating, than it is to reduce the workers' risks of lung cancer, heart disease and emphysema.

That waitress who got cancer knew what she was getting herself into.

[Throd]

121. I'm glad we agree.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

144. Christopher Reeve's wife (yes, Superman) Dana Reeve died from secondhand smoke.

[hfojvt]

159. 12 hours a day, six days a week?

That's what killed her.

And why would she even want to live?

"...if I had to sell both my forenoons and afternoons to society, as most men do, then life for me would no longer be worth living." H.D. Thoreau

[rustydog]

181. Does the restaurant owner have the right to submit

his/her employees to the dangers of second-hand smoke?
workplace rules do still apply in America, otherwise, there'd still be the triangle shirtwaist company, children would be working in mines.

A restaurant does not have the right to endanger the health of it's employees.

[dionysus]

94. they can't really tell how much it bothers others. i smoke, unfortunately. when i'm smoking, i think

nothing of the smell. if i'm not smoking at the time, and walk through a smoky area, i'm like jesus Christ this stinks!

[Zorra]

100. Yeh, I smoked for awhile when I was younger, and totally hated myself for being so fucking stupid,

so I stopped.

[moparlunatic]

102. I don't think making it illegal

would help, I can't go to any concerts because there is always someone smoking weed around me. Having a commercial license I can't take the chance of having to piss in a cup come Monday and some inconsiderate smoker puffing away with no concern of who is around them.. And yeah that stuff smells just as bad or worse as tobacco.

[Bonx]

106. RE: "And yeah that stuff smells just as bad or worse as tobacco." Lol. No it doesn't. -nt

[nomorenomore08]

133. Weed smoke doesn't linger, and seep into things, the way cigarette smoke does.

I know some don't care for the smell, but hard to argue that it's equally noxious.

[DrDan]

108. "selfish" is absolutely correct

I live in Florida and smokers here feel entitled to leave their butts on the beach - to be fed upon by the birds, turtles, fish. It is sad to walk the beach in the morning and see how many butts are left in the sand.

I am so glad smoking is no longer allowed here in restaurants.

btw - I lost a sil just two days ago due to smoking - she died of lung cancer - so eaten up that there was no hope of saving her.

[Logical]

112. Wow, what place is that? I live near KC. n-t

[LostOne4Ever]

116. Addiction is a disease

So I don't see how selfishness factors into the equation.

I personally think that restaurants should be allowed to offer accommodations for both smokers and non-smokers. A ventilated room for the smokers and a non-smoking room for non-smokers.

That is how the law works out where I live. You can go smokeless or do the above. All parties win. Non-smokers are not subjected to the fumes, smokers can also enjoy going out for dinner without having to suffer from withdraw, and the employees would be safe.

I feel that many smoking bans are getting a bit extreme. I understand and support bans that protect workers rights, but there should be places that smokers can go as well. Some areas are even banning smoking outside leaving no where for smokers to go at all. I really don't think that is fair or right. There should be some ventilated areas for them somewhere.

And no, I don't smoke. I have never smoked a day in my life, though both my parents used to smoke so I was exposed to a fair amount of 2nd hand smoke as a kid. Maybe thats why people who do smoke don't bother me too much. I can't really smell it unless they are blowing smoke into my face. I will sometimes even go into the smoking section if it gets me into a restaurant sooner...and it usually does

[whttevrr]

120. I love smoking!

Last edited Sun Sep 22, 2013, 12:00 AM - Edit history (1)

It keeps uptight assholes at least 30-50 feet away from me. When I have to suffer an absolute attention whore for more than 2 minutes I just light up and walk away. Feels good.

Fuck 'em, a lot of people are nose wrinkling hypocrites. Smoking keeps them away from my own personal space.

[Nye Bevan]

123. My strategy for keeping uptight assholes away is to publicly urinate,

making sure to splash it around. Works just as well as smoking to keep those assholes 50 feet away, and without any of the associated health risks!

Fuck those nose-wrinkling hypocrites. Public urination keeps them away from my own personal space.

[pintobean]

126. I've always suspected that

about you, Nye. You're kind of doing it now. You need to learn to use the wind properly, though.

[Cha]

127. Yeah, being around cig smoking sucks anytime.

Even when you're outside and downwind.. I look for a quick exit strategy.

[Liberal_in_LA]

129. i thimk vegas stll allows it the casinos have super duper air conditioning

In the old days Vegas was very very smoky. My eyes would water

[Owl]

130. Cigarette smoke is revolting. Outside away in a breeze, fine. Indoors? Gross.

[flvegan]

138. What else goes on there, trumad?

They serve meat? Holy shit, but that stinks (in my opinion). Never could understand the selfishness of meat eaters (not really, but you see where this is going, don't you?).

Can't believe that in this day and age, there are still areas of this country where idiots still allow it (OMtotheG! but I'm stomping my feet on a message board, dammit!)!

I could start my own flame bait thread if I wanted to I guess just to drum up the same fauxtrage, but I'd rather make the point like this.

[pintobean]

141. Anyone could start their own flame bait thread

But the real art is being able to be the only person thrown out of it.

[flvegan]

145. No way, did that happen?

LOL if so!

[pintobean]

149. post 67 above or link below

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023707042#post67

[whttevrr]

148. OMtotheG!

That's funny!

This OP is always pontificating and telling everyone what they Should do/think/be. And anyone who disagrees with him/her is a low information C.H.U.D..

[flvegan]

154. *tip of the cap to you*

On the C.H.U.D. reference.

Well played!

[rustydog]

182. Unless tainted, the meat probably won't kill you

even if you "smoke responsibly" you run the risk of lung cancer and other illnesses. Even if not, you DO NOT have the right to make me breathe in what you've exhaled, or allowed to drift off the end of your cigarette. Last time I was in a restaurant, I didn't see food particles going into neighboring diners tables and air space...did see cigarette smoke though....

[BainsBane]

225. the analogy doesn't work

Meat affects the diners health only. Anyone near cigarette smoke for even a brief period starts to undergo biological changes that damage their cells. No small number of people have acquired lung cancer from second-hand smoke. I expect most of us know someone who has.

[flvegan]

234. Shellfish allergy.

Say again?

[BainsBane]

235. peanuts would be better

but you didn't say peanuts or shellfish. You said meat. Besides, allergies affect a few. Cigarette smoke affects everyone. No one is immune.

[Douglas Carpenter]

139. I quit smoking - but quite frankly I miss a good old smokey bar, restaurant or cafe

There is something earthy about it. .. I may not actually physically smoke anymore - early stage COPD convinced me to quit - nothing less would have - but I will always be a smoker ... in my heart

[rustydog]

184. I hear you, as I said earlier, just the smoking motion makes me want to light up again

it is a powerful addiction. I'm glad I haven't smoked in 23 years, but I do miss it.

[Douglas Carpenter]

142. what's happening to our world - children are not raised to enjoy life anymore?

[madinmaryland]

146. Dude. You need to stay out of the Strip Joints. Douchebag.

[snooper2]

147. way to start a flame war!

I bow to your greatness!

[pintobean]

150. But, he's

the only dead moth, so far.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

152. I just started smoking yesterday.

Seems like the thing to do.

[rustydog]

183. OMG! Now I know what OMG means!!!!

[Arugula Latte]

153. Smoking is banned in restaurants here in Oregon but we recently went to a casino

in search of a meal when we were traveling. It's a Native American establishment and therefore exempt. HO-LEE CRAP!!! The entire place reeked to high heaven. I thought I'd stepped back in time into a horrible stinking blast from the past. It was hard to catch your breath. Needless to say we did not stay.

[Arcanetrance]

156. Just gonna put this out there working in the culinary industry for a decade you'd be surprised how

many of us that cook your food smoke. Personally I quit 5 years ago my girlfriend at the time kept getting sick and wouldn't tell me why turned out it was from my smoking but she didn't want to tell me. I personally think it was the best decision of my life you never realize how hard your addicted to something until you notice you were willing to pay the price for smokes in NYC and not think about it.

[MadrasT]

160. Yeah, sorry but so what.

Go eat somewhere else.

I don't like smoking in restaurants either, but I can choose to not frequent such establishments.

[rustydog]

179. Very simplistic, sarcastic response

Let me see if I can supply one or two in kind:

So, if I'm at the park with my children. I'm sitting on the bench watching them. A
smoker" presents himself, sits on the bench and lights up...If I don't like it, I have to leave, right?

I'm in the restaurant first, I order my meal and am eating when you come in, sit down and light up. Your right to force your smoke into my lungs supersedes my right not to breathe in your smoke and I HAVE TO LEAVE? right?

I can smoke wherever I damn well want to in Amurkia because this IS AMURIKA dammit! even if my kids are choking and coughing in the living room as I smoke, it is my fucking right? Do I read you correctly? The kids have to get out, not me?

mom has COPD and wanders about the house with her O2 bottle. If she doesn't want to smell my cigarettes, SHE needs to get the fuck out, not me? right?

My rights come first...OK I get it.

[CanonRay]

178. I hope you turned around and just walked out

[The Midway Rebel]

187. Thanks for the heads up.

I will not be dining in Gladstone anytime soon. The shit STINKS and so do smokers.

[Fawke Em]

195. Go to a restaurant that doesn't allow it.

I've never understood the selfishness of non-smokers.

I think restaurant owners should be able to make the choice. If the patrons want to smoke, they go to the smoking one - if they don't, then go to the non-smoking. The wait staff could similarly choose where to work (and before someone argues this, I worked in restaurants all through college - you pretty much CAN work for whichever one you want as long as your experience is similar).

[Grateful for Hope]

238. Exactly! nt

[joeglow3]

199. I never understood the selfishness of non smokers

If someone spends hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not millions of dollars) and wants to cater to smokers, why can't they? What gives you the right to march into any business and tell the owner he needs to cater to you?

[cynatnite]

216. Why should a non-smoker have to tolerate someone else's smoke?

Why can't they go to a restaurant without having to inhale cigarette smoke?

I wouldn't care to be in the same room with a smoker if they could keep their smoke in their space, but we know that doesn't happen. Cigarette smoke shouldn't be inflicted on those who don't want it. Not only that, I don't want my kids to inhale it either.

If you wanna call that selfish...go right ahead. I'm selfish because I care about my lungs and the lungs of my kids.

[DragonBorn]

220. What about the novel idea...

of not going to places that allow smoking indoors? That outnumber places that allow smoking 10 to 1.

That would be selfish of smokers though, because everything should be the way non smokers want it right?

Its like someone is forcing non-smokers to patronize a small subset of bars and restaurants that allow smoking. Why are you going there!? Who's making you! Tell me and I'll get them to stop!

I've seen smokers referred to as selfish a dozen times in this thread but its the non smoker who want 100% smoke free environment everywhere they go. Parks, bars, restaurants, and everything should be smoke free and if it isn't it should be made so.

Objectively tell me who sounds more selfish?

[cynatnite]

221. Go outside or go to your car and smoke...

Or even have an enclosed smoking area.

That way it's a smoke free environment without alienating smokers and non-smokers alike.

I don't see why your uncontrollable nicotine habit should dictate where I go or don't go.

[Comrade Grumpy]

223. Why should every place in the country have to cater to you and your prejudices?

Seriously. If there's a place that allows smoking and you can't stand it, don't go there. It ain't that difficult. Most businesses in the country are non-smoking now. You should be able to find a place. It's the need to enforce your standards on everyone else that is unsupportable.

If I go to a place that is non-smoking, I accept that. I don't smoke there. Why can't you accept that there are some people and some businesses that want to be able to allow smoking? It is a legal habit, after all.

[cynatnite]

228. This is not about prejudice...this is about my health, my children and grandchildren...

2nd hand smoke kills.

[joeglow3]

231. So don't go

You didn't answer my original question. If I spend millions on a business and I want to cater to smokers, why should I be denied that.

[LanternWaste]

211. It's been odd living through the devaluation (and rightly so) of the popularity of smoking.

It's been odd living through the devaluation (and rightly so) of the popularity of smoking. I began in the summer of '84, just out oh high school when it had already hit it's peak popularity, and kept smoking through its eventual decline, and now, the pariah-like treatment of those who do openly.

That's merely an observation, certainly not a criticism of the anti-smoking campaigns and social stigmatization of i;, as even though I am a smoker, I realize the brain-dead level of any and all justifications of doing it... especially in public. It's at best, unpleasant and a slap in the face to those around me.

Took me a while to realize just how unpleasant smoking is to non-smokers, and as you said, how incredibly selfish I was, but I eventually learned to keep it to myself as much as I could.

Now of course, I limit my smoking to my apartment, my car and the smokers' section outside the office, and laugh at pretty much any brain-dead idiot who not merely smokes as do I, but attempts to rationalize or justify our addiction, and due to any real substantive points being made, relies on the meaningless "Nanny Stater" label... or simply throws in the towel by using "smoke nazi".

[Xyzse]

214. I just went to New Orleans

That was interesting.

[cynatnite]

215. After I quit smoking I learned how awful that smell was...

It's worse with food.

Non-smokers shouldn't have to tolerate the smoke.

[MoonRiver]

219. KCK or KCMO?

I thought all of KCK's restaurants were non-smoking. I've stopped worrying about it when we go out.

[HockeyMom]

226. 4th Hand Smoke

I assume that most now have heard that 3rd Hand Smoke can KILL; just smelling the hair and clothes of a smoker. Have you heard of the LATEST???? Looking a PICTURE of somebody smoking will cause you to go into cardiac arrest and DIE.

[onehandle]

230. Most addictive drug on Earth. There's your answer.

Heroin is a cakewalk compared to that shit.