Are your posessions worth more than a human life?

[Taverner]

Last edited Sat Sep 21, 2013, 05:26 PM - Edit history (1)

I just want to know who the sociopaths are here

19 votes, 4 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Hell yeah! You don\'t touch my stuff or Imma KILL YOU!
	4 (21%)
	No, inanimate objects are not equal to human life.
	15 (79%)
	4 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[JustAnotherGen]

1. No but . . .

I would hesitate to give someone holding a gun to my head my dad's last pair of eye glasses. Sorry - but I lost him two years ago and the sentimental value on my night stand is just that . . . Sentimental reminder of value to no one but me.

[The Straight Story]

2. Depends on how old the human life form is

Guessing the worth of a life is like a bell curve in some ways.

And what the going rate on the stock market is. Not to mention prevailing wages (Some wealthy have toilets that may be worth more than you make in a life time).

Not to mention supply and demand, often hear we have too many humans on the planet, so we are going for cheap right now.

[Ohio Joe]

3. A few years back, the girl who lived in the apt below me burned it down...

Not on purpose but through stupidity... She left a candle burning... Sheesh. I suffered just about total loss and she not only had no insurance but was not worth a lawsuit as she had nothing. I walked away without a grudge and am still working to re-build (years later and I am still arguing with my insurance company).

In my mind... It put a completely new light on the gun nuts that want to kill people for theft. Fuckin crazy if you ask me. Stuff is not worth a persons life.

[Ohio Joe]

10. oh... And because I love the whole DU3 transparency stuff... Here is the alert

At Sat Sep 21, 2013, 10:40 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Is your "stuff" worth more than a human life?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023707423

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

"I just want to know who the sociopaths are in here"? WTF? Is there any other purpose to this post other than to troll?

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Sep 21, 2013, 10:47 AM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: When someone has broken into one's home, the resident does not have the luxury of knowing if the bugler plans physical harm or no. This poll is trolling using black and white thinking. The board is better than that.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Taverner... A troll... heh, too funny
Leave. Ohio Joe
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

78. I considered alerting...

...over the "sociopath" remark but I decided to PM instead. Agreed Taverner is not a troll. Abrasive maybe but not a troll.

[Taverner]

85. I rub some people the wrong way

I am an asshole who embraces empathy

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

86. Nooo

Really??? I'd have never guessed.

[Taverner]

87. LOL

[reflection]

92. generally, buglers are harmless.

Annoying but harmless.

[GeorgeGist]

111. +1

[malaise]

55. You're a good person

That must have been devastating

[Ohio Joe]

67. heh... It still is

I was laid off from my job several months before it happened... Ever try and go to an interview when all you own is a pair of shorts and a t-shirt? I can tell you it does not go over very well. No income, no place to live... Nothing to even sell to try and get some money. Plus, at my age (now 50) and with my job history, I can't even get a job at a 7/11... They look at me and tell me they can't pay me what I used to make and pass on me... It's fucked up.

[malaise]

69. That's fucked up alright

We don't really imagine that happening. For some strange reason I always have one set of clothes in the trunk of my car with an extra pair of shoes. I started doing that decades ago after a neighbor fell asleep with her stove on - I mean the entire building was smelling - one of the guys managed to put a stick through a window and turn off the main switch for her stove - that woke her up.

We'd never be able to replace our stuff and it would be the photos and old stuff that we'd miss most.

[Oakenshield]

4. Too basic a question.

Ask a more practical one. One that can be applied better to real life circumstances. But if you must pigeon-hole me into a category, then no, there's nothing in my possession I would consider more valuable than a human life.

[Igel]

5. No context, no valid answer.

Is my "stuff" worth more than a human life? Sure. If the person stealing my stuff is in my living room at 3 am when my family and I are home.

Is it legal to set up a booby trap to kill somebody when you're not home? No.

How about this: Somebody holds me up at gunpoint. If I could think him dead, would his death be worth my wallet? Then again, he might kill me by accident. He might kill the next guy. He might kill me on purpose if he's angry that I don't carry cash. So it's not "is his life worth my wallet?"--that's not a reasonable way of putting it. It puts the entire onus on the motive we impute to him or that he would claim if confronted.

At some point it's not just your "stuff" that's at issue. It's also respect for laws--and if that erodes, at least some lives will also be lost.


Then again, we could rephrase this. "Is rape justification for killing somebody?"

Or we could adopt a proportionality requirement. "Those 10 men are killing my wife. Is that one life worth killing those 10?"

Odd, defending those who defy the social order by calling those who demand respect for it "sociopaths." Rather turns the definition on its head.

[Taverner]

8. No I'm boiling it all down to its simplest parts

If someone is threatening to kill your family, yes, I can see your familiy's or even YOUR life being comparable to the other, and self-defense is a good thing.

However, if you are alone in your home, you hear a burglar and you come out to see somebody running off with your stereo out the door. You have a gun. It is loaded. You have a clear shot at the guy running out the door.

Do you shoot or not?


Remember, he only has your stereo (or car, or some other McGuffin)

[furious]

19. If a burglar is running away and you shoot him,

except in maybe Texas, you're going to be charged with a crime.
Running away means they're no longer a threat and you can't use deadly force.

[Taverner]

20. I can imagine that would bum you out then...

Awww I don't get to kill him

You would be surprised how many cops look the other way when that happens

[furious]

22. Why would it bum me out?

I'm sworn to uphold the law, not break it.
No sane person ever WANTS to kill someone, some times people are put in situations where there is no other option, but a burglar running away? That's not even defensible.

[Taverner]

23. Not getting to kill somoene

[furious]

24. What leads you to believe that I want to kill someone?

And this cop wouldn't look the other way FYI.

[Taverner]

40. They would and do in LA

[furious]

41. I'm not in LA.

LAPD or LASD have nothing to do with my department.
You alluded that I would be bummed out if I didn't get the chance to kill a burglar, I ask again, what leads you to that conclusion?
You think all cops are like that? You would be sorely disappointed, most cops don't ever want to shoot anyone, much less kill someone.

[Taverner]

43. My dad was a cop. No I think most GUN OWNERS salivate at the idea of shooting someone

Why else would they buy a gun?

[furious]

45. There are numerous reasons why people buy guns.

But I'm not going to get drawn into that debate.
I know dozens upon dozens of civilian gun owners, not a one of them salivates at shooting someone.
Where do you get your information?
Did your dad salivate at the thought of shooting someone? If he did, then he had no business being a cop.

[Duckhunter935]

57. And I am sure most do not

[qazplm]

81. I'm not a gun owner

never will be, but that comment is just amazingly stupid.

[Taverner]

82. Look if you buy a gun that means you think it would be OK to kill someone

Because that's what guns do

[mythology]

95. Yep

It's amazing how certain some people are.

[spin]

104. A firearm can be used for hunting and for protection against dangerous animals. ...

Of course it can be argued that pepper spray can be an effective deterrent against even a charging bear.

SHOOT OR SPRAY? THE BEST WAY TO STOP A CHARGING BEAR
While many gun proponents remain adamant that firearms offer better protection against a charging bear than pepper spray, a growing body of scientific research suggests otherwise

By: NICK HEIL

Imagine: You’re on a backpacking trip in Alaska, bushwhacking along an overgrown trail, when—hey now!—you’re up close and personal with a 400-pound griz. You, A) turn screaming and bolt past your buddies; B) unshoulder your .30/06 and level it between said griz’s eyes; or C) quick-draw your hip-holstered canister of pepper spray.

If you picked A, you just made the bear’s dinner menu. If you’re leaning toward B, you’re probably a bear-country veteran with a lot of faith in, and probably decent skill with, firearms. If you went with C you may be among the converted who believe a growing body of research suggesting that non-lethal deterrents aren’t just a feel-good alternative for animal-loving liberals, but a field-tested defense strategy backed up by hard data. Such claims aren’t without merit, or controversy. But while everyone from veteran guides to Second Amendment zealots has sounded off against the superiority of spray over guns, a survey of recent studies only reinforces the arguments in favor of pepper spray.
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/nature/Shoot-or-Spray.html?page=all

Many people own firearms because they enjoy target shooting. For someone who is unfamiliar with firearms, it is hard to understand that target shooting can be a challenging sport that takes years to master. I've enjoyed target shooting handguns for over 40 years and have sent many thousands and thousands of rounds downrange to punch holes in paper targets. I've also enjoyed loading my own ammunition and tailoring the rounds to the individual handguns I own in order to find the most accurate load for each.

Of course a firearm can be used for self defense against a human attacker.

My mother was walking home after getting off a bus in a fairly rural area of Pennsylvania in the 1920s when she was rushed by a man who had been hiding behind some bushes. Fortunately she had a small revolver in her purse and was able to fire two shots over her attacker's head. He ran. Had she not have been armed I might not be posting here today.

My daughter also stopped an intruder who was breaking into our Tampa home by pointing a revolver at him as he was forcing the sliding glass door to our kitchen open. He also ran. No shots were fired.

I have absolutely no desire to ever have to shoot another person but assuming that I can grab a firearm in time, I will do so rather than suffer serious injuries that will put me in a hospital for a long period of time or six feet under. There is absolutely nothing wrong with defending yourself against an extremely dangerous attacker as long as the force you use is appropriate for the situation. Of course I hope and pray that I never find myself in such a situation and realistically the chances are that I never will.

I'm sure that some gun owners do "salivate" shooting another person. They probably do not realize that this is a life changing event and can cause significant psychological problems even if your actions are totally justified. Shooting another person is the last thing a knowledgeable and sane person ever wishes to do. A wise man avoids violent confrontations if possible and is willing to walk away from a bad situation even if it makes him look and feel like a coward.

[blueridge3210]

56. Don't ruin the narrative with facts.

This poster has another post that posits anyone who owns a handgun has decided to kill someone the first chance they get. Presenting evidence of gun owners who have the opportunity shoot and decide not to messes up their rant.

[furious]

59. Haven't seen that one, where is it?

Thanks.

[Taverner]

61. Hoo boy, maybe you should see my post on "are some lives worth more than others"

Because obviously, you disagree with me

I don't think anyone is worth more than any other

It's called egalitarianism

Which clearly, you are against

[furious]

63. The only life that would be less worth than mine would be the person

trying to harm me or my family, otherwise, everyone's life is worth just as much as the next one.
Where are you getting these ideas about what I think?

[Taverner]

76. That's self defense

Whole different scenario.

[furious]

79. That's correct, and I haven't said anything different.

That's why I can't figure out where you're getting these ideas about what I believe.

[oldhippie]

97. He makes them up .....

... in his very own mind. He states that he knows for a fact that he knows what is in the minds of ALL gun owners, and that's just it. Take it for what it's worth.

[blueridge3210]

65. Gungeon post. Interesting responses.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=131636

[furious]

66. Thanks.

Hardly go there, I have no desire to get embroiled in the 2A debate, but I'll take a gander at it.

[Niceguy1]

29. running away , no

But if I am home and he enters then that is a different story. .. coopetate i will not. I would not shed a tear for a criminal who dies while robbing an occupied residence

[Nevernose]

105. A lethal booby trap is, in fact, legal

Ask any year one law school student.

As long as there is a clear warning posted -- very clear, very short -- and the property being protected is ones's own residence (not a business or rental property), then one can protect one's own house with a lethal booby traps.

The controlling SCOTUS ruling goes back to Iowa (1840s?), and although modified, it still holds mostly true.

[furious]

6. Nope, if someone wants my stuff, take it,

but if you attempt to harm me or any members of my family, then there will be a problem.

[JVS]

7. Is your life worth so little to you that you'll risk it for my stuff?

I'm not going to value someone's life more than they do.

[Taverner]

9. So your stuff is worth more

I'll give you the same scenario

If someone is threatening to kill your family, yes, I can see your familiy's or even YOUR life being comparable to the other, and self-defense is a good thing.

However, if you are alone in your home, you hear a burglar and you come out to see somebody running off with your stereo out the door. You have a gun. It is loaded. You have a clear shot at the guy running out the door.

Do you shoot or not?


Remember, he only has your stereo (or car, or some other McGuffin

[Duckhunter935]

60. No because

that is against the law. CCW permits come with training, never brandish and only draw and shoot when a life is in danger.

[Egalitarian Thug]

11. Which human life? And since you were specific about the life being "human",

does that mean my animals are stuff?

[Taverner]

12. I would classify animals as "someone" not stuff

[Egalitarian Thug]

13. Cool. Then that only leaves the first question, which life?

I have a used toothpick here that I would save before quite a few people.

[Taverner]

32. I would sacrifice my car or guitar to save Dick Cheney's life

Seriously

And I think he's totally fucking evil

But after saving him, I'd have some choice words

[RebelOne]

27. If someone tried to harm my dog,

I would defend her because she is like my child. If I had a weapon, I would use it.

[ZombieHorde]

14. No, with a few exeptions.

"My" air is worth a life, but someone one would have to attack me to take it. Someone's insulin may be worth a life.

If the object's absence causes death, then I think it is worth a life.

[Taverner]

15. That's self defense - which is differnt

[ZombieHorde]

17. I agree, but a bottle of insulin is still "stuff."

I just wanted to be honest about the exception I perceived in my vote.

[Taverner]

31. If it's the last vial of insulin in 20 miles, taking it is like murder

BUT, if the country drug store is down the ways, then no

[Robb]

16. Of course not. And you have your answers.

Good heavens. Here's a hint: if you feel you've got to parse and answer here, you have -- and are -- lost.

[ZombieHorde]

18. I have read posts on DU that claim theft of objects is theft of time,

and therefore killing the thief is justified.

[Robb]

34. That's psychotic.

[ZombieHorde]

64. Yeah, I don't even know what to say about that. nt

[TheKentuckian]

21. Not exactly but the thief is pushing the bounds of enslaving me by taking away the value of my labor

and giving nothing in exchange. Is the thief's life worth being made homeless? I'm going to say probably not to me, I've been there and am willing to literally fight not to have another run at it.

Is the thief's life my ability to get to work and provide for my own living? Again, probably not to me.

I guess the answer depends on circumstances and I don't apologize for saying so. Excess and insured stuff? No. The difference between the prospects of my ability to live and thrive? No and I'm not a bit sorry that I'm not going to allow food to be taken out of my mouth or to lose my shelter or what I need to make a living because some fucker just wants it and thinks they have the might or craftiness to take it for their own benefit. No one has any right to put another at risk of livelihood and home, they are surely taking their chances when their actions push another to an extreme.

This is a capitalist society, to allow someone to willfully make you destitute when you have the capability to prevent it is suicidal so one cannot be a sociopath for doing what is in their power to prevent such a pass.

[Taitertots]

25. Taking my "stuff" is tantamount to taking the portion of my life I used earning money it get it.

Yes, my life is worth much more than someone who is trying to take my life.

[cherokeeprogressive]

26. Nnnnnope.

Stupid question.

Got any more?

[Taverner]

39. You would be surprised how many here disagree with you

You would be surprised how many here are salivating at the idea of killing someone

[cherokeeprogressive]

71. Excuse me, but I think you're out of your fucking mind.

I don't believe there is a SINGLE person here who is "salivating" at the idea of killing ANYONE.

Where do you get such an asinine notion? Point me to a SINGLE statement that says without equivocation that a DUer is SALIVATING at the notion of killing someone, ANYONE, for ANY reason.

I got $10 says you can't, or won't.

[furious]

73. I'd like to see that also.

[kcr]

90. I think those who equate stealing property with stealing life

because of the time they earned to buy them qualifies. Because that's just beyond nutty. And there were at least a couple of those before I got to your post here.

[bluestate10]

28. Is that a serious question? HELL NO!!!!

[sarisataka]

30. Have to pass

as there are some rare inanimate objects, usually medical, that are the equivalent to life. They would be worth protecting.

Other stuff, no, not important.

The unspoken factor- coming upon said thief I do not know his mind. If he does anything but retreat I may have to act. I cannot wait until he kills me to determine he is there for more than stuff.

[jmowreader]

33. Forget the "your money or your life" thing

If your abode is invaded by a person with a gun, there is a better-than-even chance that person will kill everyone in the premises to eliminate witnesses.

Here's the real question: Is the life of a criminal worth more than the life of your whole family?

[Taverner]

38. Absolute Bullshit

The vast majority of burglars are unarmed.

But keep up that NRA fantasy...it will help keep fear alive.

And if there is one thing we need more of, it's fear

[jmowreader]

96. The vast majority of burglars break in when the house is empty, too

[furious]

98. True.

The difference between a burglar and a home invader is a burglar breaks into a house while the owner is away, a home invader breaks in while the owner is home.

[pintobean]

35. Looks like a CD poll

There wasn't a whole lot of thought put into it. I'm amazed at how many people will answer such an obvious push poll. This poll will tell you nothing about anyone.

[rrneck]

36. Generally speaking no.

Unless you need the "stuff" to survive.

[NightWatcher]

37. How do I know if you're here for my stuff or my family's life?

So you had better just stay off the property because I won't ask your intentions. Maybe if you pin a note to your clothes, the police who respond to remove your body from the premises will be able to tell if you came for stuff.

Here's a better plan, as the kiddies say, "don't start none, won't be none".

[gopiscrap]

46. Welcome to DU

[H2O Man]

44. other

[ileus]

47. What if that suff is an AR and 3 30 round mags?

or any other firearm for that matter?

[Ruby the Liberal]

48. Stuff, no - but if someone harms a hair on my cat

Imma turn 'em inside out with my bare hands and then eat a sandwich over the body.

[furious]

50. LOL.

Ok, that one is a gut buster. We feel the same way about our birds.

[sarisataka]

52. In our house

The cats would slice him like deli meat and the dog would have it cleaned up in under ten minutes.

[irisblue]

54. I'd pass you mayo and cheddar for the sandwich.

There is 'more stuff' I can get. Touch my family, hurt my cats or dogs...well.
Taverner why are you asking this?

[Spirochete]

49. Of course!

I'd kill any one of you for a Klondike bar....

[furious]

51. Now that might be a legitimate reason. LOL.

[Shrek]

53. Which human?

And what stuff?

[NutmegYankee]

58. I realize you are talking about personal possessions...

But taking the long historical view, nearly all human conflict through the centuries has been over "stuff".

[Taverner]

62. Part of why I am a Socialist

and an Anarchist

Historical Materialism

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

68. Just a thought

Stuff alone is not generally not worth risking serious injury or death of yourself or another.

[hughee99]

72. Would you let someone beat the hell out of you to avoid taking their life?

Would you kill someone not to save your own life (or someone else's life) but just to avoid getting beaten?

[Taverner]

77. To avoid taking my life, yes. But I would throw some punches back.

Rather than shooting them

Because I do not own, nor will I ever, own a gun

If I need a gun to survive, then I am in the wrong place

[hughee99]

83. How about to stop a rape?

[Taverner]

84. Stopping a rape is easy - I've done it twice

"HEY YOU MOTHERFUCKER! I CAN SEE YOUR FUCKING FACE!!!"

<the derp perp runs>

[furious]

88. That doesn't always work, I've seen it first hand.

I'm not suggesting every woman arm themselves, that's their choice, but we teach woman to carry defensive tools, pepper spray, whistles, keys, certain defensive moves, like kicking a guy in the nuts, still fingers to the throat/eyes.

I have no qualms about a woman making the decision to carry a gun for self defense, but learn to use it and be ready to accept the consequences of using it, both physically and mentally.

[flvegan]

74. Yup.

My home is my "stuff" as are my animals (by law, they are property and therefore are "stuff&quot .

Guess I'm a sociopath. Nice poll.

[Logical]

106. Yep, I think you are! nt

[flvegan]

110. So, someone seeking to burn down your house

with your pets inside...just a mislead idiot, huh?

Okay. Speaking of mislead idiots, whatever. Lost most of us with your response quoting "I think"

Because you don't, it seems.

[cthulu2016]

75. The question of "worth" muddies the issue hopelessly.

It is glib to say that a human life has more "worth" than an object, but that is not the same as saying that it is always wrong to kill to protect property.

Would a community kill in defense of their municipal agricultural irrigation system, if need be? Of course.


Say Germany in 1916 or 1939 had interdicted all American cargo vessels, removed all the people on board and then sunk the ships. Would the loss of all American exports, and all the ships carrying it, have constituted only crimes against property, and thus be outside the logic of lethal force?

And so on.

[arely staircase]

80. I would take a life that threatened my own or those of my loved ones or even a stranger

But nobody's life is worth any possession I have.

[LostOne4Ever]

89. Yes and no

Yes there are possessions that I own that have such sentimental value to me that I would risk my life for them.

No, there is no possession that I own that I would be willing to kill another person over.

[Texasgal]

91. I was robbed at gun point

back in the early 90's. The asshole stole my purse with all the money I had at the time and a check book ( which he tried to use later) even my car keys. I was devastated and very scared, It took me years to get over the feeling of victimization and fear.

I am not sure I could shoot or kill anyone, but I look back on that day and I wish that I had fought back harder than I did. I dropped my purse and let him take it all without a word from me.

It wasn't so much "my stuff" it was my peace of mind that the asshole took from me.

[furious]

93. You probably did the right thing,

your possessions aren't worth your life.

[oldhippie]

100. Yup. We visited a friend in the hospital yesterday ......

She is a 70 year old Chinese friend of my wife's that owns and runs an Asian fish market in our town. A week ago last Thursday two young perps came into her shop to steal all the money in her cash register. Being who she is, she resisted, and fought back with a Chinese cleaver. They took it away from her, cut her badly, and beat the crap out of her face and apparently smashed her head on the concrete floor. Another customer found her unconscious about a half hour later and called 911.

She has been in intensive care with a concussion for 9 days. She was in a coma for five days. She will be moved to a regular ward tomorrow. My wife says her face is all blue and purple and only one eye will open. She is still not totally coherent.

Knowing Fong, she would do exactly the same thing again. She is not going to allow someone to steal the fruits of her work without a fight. I suspect next time she will fight harder with the cleaver. Some people are just constitutionally unable to give up their stuff.

[furious]

101. Sympathies for your friend.

We teach that unless you see something that would lead you to believe that your life is in mortal danger, give up your wallet/purse, those can be replaced, but, it you truly believe that the perp is going to harm you no matter what, fight back, you've got nothing to lose.

Most burglars/robbers don't want anything to do with someone who looks like they can defend themselves, that's another technique we teach, look confident, don't look like a victim, most times, a perp will move on looking for someone more vulnerable.

[Yo_Mama]

94. Sometimes.

If it is a possession necessary to the continuation of my life or another's, yes.

I think you are being hypocritical here - unless you have sold everything you own that is not absolutely necessary to sustain your own life or the lives of your family, and given the funds raised to the starving around the world, or those who die from lack of medical care, in fact YOU DO BELIEVE YOUR POSSESSIONS ARE WORTH MORE THAN A HUMAN LIFE.

I personally am not a hypocrite. I know I am doing wrong because I have money in the bank when other people are starving. I give some of it away, because I know I am doing wrong. And I admit that I am doing wrong. I live a life that is "poor" by American standards, because at least I was raised well enough to know that I am doing wrong.

You, you seem to just want to feel self-righteous about it, but anyone on this board who heats their house above the minimum necessary to sustain life in the winter, or goes to bed with their hunger truly satisfied, or has any unnecessary comforts in their life is, by your definition, a sociopath.

So I suspect you have just defined yourself as a self-righteous sociopath. You're welcome to it.

[stevenleser]

99. Now? No. At other points in my life when I couldn't replace even the cheapest possession I owned?

Not sure.

If you are poor enough, as I was at one point, someone robbing you of enough of your money and stuff could really finish you economically and put you on the street.

[Thinkingabout]

102. The question is not properly ask, it should be is your life less important than what you are

About to attempt to steal?

[Agnosticsherbet]

103. To save another human life, I'd risk taking one or losing my own.

But nothing I own is worth killing for.

[Incitatus]

107. I would say no.

But the wife of a friend of mine was murdered. She was working at a convenience store. She did everything the criminal asked and he killed her anyway, after he got what he wanted.

I will not kill someone to protect my property, but If I feel my life is in danger I will not take the chance that the robber will let me go when he gets what he wants. I will to whatever it takes to get the upper hand.

Shooting someone in the back as they are fleeing with something stolen is a completely different issue and IMO murder.


Sorry if that makes me a sociopath. That last thing I want to do is take someone's life.

[Recursion]

108. I'm trying to imagine a situation where I can be certain someone will stop at my possessions

[Demo_Chris]

109. Depends on which possessions...

My TV? No. My books? No. Other toys? No.

The truck I need to feed my family? Damn right it is. I wouldn't shed a single tear. My business tools? My limited money? I would feel a moment's remorse.

It comes down to this: my life matters too. It matters every bit as much as the life of some thief -- and to me it matters more. And without 'stuff' life is impossible.