The steaming pile of shit that is now Iraq!

[trumad]

The country is a hair trigger away from a full on Civil War. I can't think of any intervention that the U.S.A has been involved in that has left a country so shattered. I am sickened when I read stories like the one below---sickened.

BAGHDAD — As Satar Jabar mourned the death of his mother last week, three explosions struck the funeral tent, killing nearly 100 people, including his young son and two of his brothers.

“I feel like I lost my life, my home,” Mr. Jabar said as he received mourners in his home Wednesday afternoon in Sadr City, the gritty and sprawling neighborhood where the attack occurred. “They destroyed everything.”

<snip>
The Shiite-dominated central government, led by Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki, is battling an increasingly deadly Sunni insurgency that is morphing into a bloody sectarian fight reminiscent of the country’s civil war of several years ago. The violence is relentless and daily: on Thursday morning bombs struck public markets in two areas near Baghdad, one predominantly Shiite, the other Sunni, killing more than two dozen people.

As the government tries to put down the Sunni insurgency, it now faces rising unrest among members of the country’s Shiite majority, who are becoming more determined to take up the fight themselves. This is perhaps expressed most vividly in the sentiments stirring Sadr City, home to many former fighters in Mr. Sadr’s militia, the Mahdi Army, who had largely put down their weapons in recent years and put their faith in the political process.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/28/world/middleeast/deadly-attacks-in-iraq-stir-shiite-anger-at-government.html?hp

[hlthe2b]

1. Yet, I am sure the Bush*, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Pearle, Wolfowitz, Bill Kristols of the world

don't lose an bit of sleep over it.

Devastating... Truly.

[trumad]

2. And they say they'd do it all over again.

[SoCalDem]

3. All we did was precipitate and postpone the inevitable civil war

This would have happened as soon as Hussein was gone (whether by hanging or a heart attack in his sleep).. Dictatorships usually end in revolution/civil war. Outside interference just makes it last longer.... and makes for a bloody mess..

[trumad]

4. and lost 4000 Americans

and 1000's of Iraqis as well.

[delrem]

10. Your counter-factual serves no other purpose than to give the USA absolution.

Sure, the US attacked Iraq in an illegal war of aggression, totally destroyed the social, economic, physical and political infrastructure of the country, killed over 100,000 Iraqi citizens, sent over 2 million fleeing as refugees, armed sectarian militias even when knowing full well that they were (sunni) jihadists preparing for a protracted civil war - and turned a modern secular state into what someone said is "a pile of shit".

That's true, but hey, that would all have happened anyway, because, you know, "dictators....".

[leveymg]

16. Someone else in the Ba'ath Party would have taken over. It was the Saudis and Israel who wanted

Iraq broken up and eliminated as a military threat, and we did it for them. Civil war also has the beneficial effect of depressing oil exports (beneficial for the other oil exporters in the region, anyway.) The only problem, with no central authority, the ethnic conflicts destroy what's left, except facilities guarded by foreign mercenaries -- that, too, is entirely intended. Just like Libya.

With so many benefits to permanent religious war across the region, Surprised nobody figured this out earlier.

[SoCalDem]

20. Iran was the biggest "winner"

and everyone in Iraq lost...and our military's lost lives were for nothing much..

[leveymg]

29. We almost did the same thing to Iran to prevent just that from happening.

But, it seems saner adults in the room prevailed. For now, anyway.

[bvar22]

31. That Iran would be the inevitable WINNER of a destabilized IRAQ

was pointed out repeatedly by the Anti-War Movement.
Looks like the Fringe Leftists were correct....again.

[arely staircase]

42. bingo nt

[Octafish]

5. It's our oil.

Too bad for them, they live - or used to live - on top of it.

One of the most shameful chapters in human history, our treatment of Iraq.

As for the missed opportunities:

For the cost of Iraq War, we could've built National 100% Renewable Clean Energy Grid.

I kid you not.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/for-the-price-of-the-iraq-war-the-u-s-could-have-a-100-renewable-power-system/5330881

[Martin Eden]

9. The true cost of the Iraq war is incalulable

Thank you for posting a link to a missed opportunity for the price of what we spend and are spending for this war.

[truth2power]

11. Thanks Octafish, for two things. First of all...

for articulating what a little voice in my head said when I read the OP, that is, "Who gives a crap who's getting killed, as long as the U.S. and the multinational corporations control the oil." (Channeling the US Govt., here).

The second is for linking to globalresearch.ca, a source that I've found to be quite credible in learning what's really going on in terms of foreign affairs, even going back to the US gun-running to the Syrian rebels during the Benghazi affair. Yep.

[delrem]

39. Thanks for the heads-up.

[truth2power]

46. My pleasure. I knew someone woudl get it. n/t

[grahamhgreen]

24. Cool article! It is about their oil... Time to re-nationalize it and boot out the oil companies.

[Overseas]

41. I didn't realize that about the cost of the war.

And here we are drilling into shale and poisoning our groundwater because we still can't get half our defense budget taxes transferred to what would most effectively enhance our national security-- renewable power systems.

[Octafish]

44. I am tired of Big Oil and Wall Street running Washington.

Since Truman (and JFK), US foreign policy has advanced the interests of big business and the wealthy at the expense of democracy abroad.

US domestic policy serves the wealthy and big business at the expense of democracy at home.

Fewer and fewer politicians stand up for We the People anymore. The politicians and their backers have gamed the system to serve the Military Industrial Complex and its owners.

[Overseas]

45. So am I. So many of my tax dollars have gone to protect them.

[Junkdrawer]

6. Vietnam, Chili, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya ....

Ok, Ok. We're 0 for 5

But Syria I tell you...I smell a comeback...

[phantom power]

7. freedom!

[Martin Eden]

8. Grief-Anger-Revenge-Killing-Grief-Anger-Revenge-Killing

Repeat-Repeat-Repeat

[Politicub]

12. Sunni and Shiite conflicts

I don't think there's anything any country can do to stop these warring factions.

It's like two tea parties battling for dominance and to show who has the biggest dick.

[Moostache]

19. I lump ALL religious extremists into this same barrel of monkeys...

Jew v. Palestinian
Shiite v. Sunni
Protestant v. Catholic
Hindu v. Muslim

Fuck them ALL.

[Politicub]

36. And it's only getting worse

Imagine what these people could accomplish if they directed their energy toward making life better for everyone.

[Botany]

13. Thanx bush/Cheney/Rummy/Condi/Wolfowitz/PNAC ......

"The Shiite-dominated central government, led by Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki, is battling an increasingly deadly Sunni insurgency that is morphing into a bloody sectarian fight reminiscent of the country’s civil war of several years ago. The violence is relentless and daily: on Thursday morning bombs struck public markets in two areas near Baghdad, one predominantly Shiite, the other Sunni, killing more than two dozen people."



these mother f***ers should be in jail for what they did.

[unhappycamper]

14. And don't forget that dubya's adventures went on our national Credit Card (remember Supplementals?)

The bill currently stands around a trillion dollars, but when you factor in long-term care for those injured in these adventures the final bill will be at least $3.5 trillion dollars.

Obama's Afghanistan adventure is still going strong with 4+ years of occupation at around two billion dollars a week.

[rrneck]

15. The root cause of the problem is probably in your pocket right now.

[Moostache]

21. NO.

The real root cause is the book that each side reads and interprets as giving them special dominion over others in the first place...the keys and cars and oil are merely background noise or bit players...the cymbals of the percussion section to the orchestra if you will.

It is not our stupid and ignorant politicians who are the root cause...they are the trigger for sure, guilty of lighting the match and throwing it on the kindling....but the fuel itself for this conflict and so many like it is religion.

[rrneck]

27. Um, yes.

Everything you touch depends on oil. Everything. You can discard religion entirely - wipe it from the collective consciousness of the entire human race - and you will still have to eat every day and sleep warm and dry. That's a fact.

Another fact is that the United States is an empire that uses about twenty five percent of the world energy resources for about five percent of its population (last I checked). Empires have behaved the same way for seven thousand years, and we're no different.

Blaming religion is just playing the other guys game. By other guy I don't mean the practitioners of another religion, but the 1% that profits most from the use of oil. They're always up for a rich man's war and a poor man's fight, just like the Mullahs, Princes, Shahs and assorted leaders that have the temerity to be in control of "our" oil.

[Skidmore]

17. Saddam Hussein was a strong man who could be relied upon

to keep the Shi'a and Kurdish people in check and counterbalance Iran. When he was removed, there has been an opening for a resurgence of Shi'a sectarianism complete with a long list of grievances. These sectarian issues have been bubbling under the surface for generations.

[trumad]

18. they have

And we helped uncap them.

[Skidmore]

23. So we did, as we helped to

cap them through all the years Saddam was our man in Iraq. Islam has not worked out some very fundamental issues at the core, including which group is the rightful heir of Mohammed's legacy. It has never had an Enlightenment or an Inquisition to sort the wheat from the chaff. It is now undergoing a process akin to that of the long religious wars which tore Europe apart for centuries. Europe got tired of fighting them eventually. I see the great Islamic sectarian wars as a place where we need not seek to insert our two cents worth of opinion. I realize, of course, we have political operatives here who would greatly love to exploit those divisions, but doing so will not win us friends on any side.

[TheKentuckian]

22. The fruit borne here is EXACTLY what was expected from planting the seed.

[benld74]

25. American Embassy ONLY cost us $900 MILLION

Should make a really nice palace when the next takeover occurs

[Spitfire of ATJ]

26. Meanwhile, the real CRAZY Sunnis are coming in from Saudi Arabia.

[madinmaryland]

32. I thought the Saudi's were Wasabi's (sp?)?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

33. "Wahhabi" is actually considered a slur. It is an ultra-conservative Sunni branch....

The main difference between Shiite and Sunni is the Shiites believe all of the stuff in Islam happened long ago and the faith should be considered to be parables and metaphors and life lessons on how to live a virtuous life. (Like the way most Christians in this country treat their religion.) Sunnis on the other hand believe all of that stuff is still going on TODAY and there are actual Prophets walking the earth who RIGHT NOW are actually in direct contact with God. This is like believing Pat Robertson is actually in touch with God. Among the Holy Men with the Sunnis are the Saudi Royal Family who consider their #1 rival in the Middle East to be Iran.

You know,....Iran? Where the kids hang out at the mall?



Guess which side the United States supports?

[leveymg]

34. That's Prince Turki, the ex-head of Saudi intelligence,on the right of Hillary. Great photo.

Says a great deal about the nature of the personal and political relationship.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

38. The Saudis kill a single nut amongst many from time to time for the press and we thank them.

[Uncle Joe]

35. I believe that dynamic may be in the early process of changing.

Guess which side the United States supports?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

37. The media refuses to connect the dots....

FOX "News" is partly owned by the Saudis and as far as they are concerned we are overdue with bombing Iran and everyone knows how "15 of the 19 hijackers" ends.

Meanwhile I am currently having a back and forth on YouTube with a Moran who says, "But there were WMD's found in Iraq. Mustard/Sarin weapons were found. It's not a reason to go to war, but it's reality."

[NickB79]

47. Wasabi's. ROFL

Watch out, they're pungent fuckers!

[pa28]

28. We'll probably have to find a US friendly, secular strongman who can restore order.

Like Saddam.

[spanone]

30. ....halliburton and the private war industry made gazillions on it....

as with the hokey pokey, that's what it was all about

[B Calm]

40. and some wonder why they hate us. . .

[arely staircase]

43. biggest strategic fuck up in American history

in addition to the desolation we left behind in that country (destroying its civil society) and on top of the loss of life on both sides, it was probably the most counter productive endeavor in US foreign policy, and that is saying a lot.