Specifically about closing monuments in DC: Why?

[Stinky The Clown]

If you have been to DC and been to the monuments you would know that many of them have no walls, no gates, no way to close them off.

The Lincoln Memorial is a three sided building, with the front, at the top of the steps, wide open. There are no doors.

The FDR Memorial is essentially a series of tableaus along the sidewalk that wends its way through the famous cherry trees.

The Viet Nam Vets memorial is a hole in the ground of the National Mall. No fences. no gates, Just a black granite, scar-like V-shaped wall sunk into the ground.

The Korean War Vet's memorial is also a wide open one, approachable from any direction.

The WWII memorial is a series of walls and arches and pathways. The layout more or less directs you through it, but it, too, has no gates and no real way to close it off.

And on and on.

Most of DC's monuments have no means to be closed.

If one is concerned about short term costs, it is more costly to send in a crew with portable barriers and yellow tape to close them on a makeshift basis than to simply leave them alone.

True enough, no one would guarding them against vandalism, and we all know vandals exist. Except that we *are* guarding them against vandalism, even as the shut down continues.

I think we need to open them.





Yes, I know there are other issues more important than this and yes, I know this is the right wing view of at least the situation at the WWII Memorial, but this is how I see it. I am in no way in league with Tex rep Randy Whateverthefuckhiznameis.

[randome]

1. Security personnel, guides, groundskeepers. All on furlough, I would think.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers. It's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]

[Stinky The Clown]

3. I understand, but . . .

It is, in the case of many of our most cherished monuments, akin to closing an open field.

The monuments are, by their very design, *always* open. We have to actually spend money to close them and keep them closed.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

12. incorrect...

those monuments that are open-air are open 24/7 and in the vast majority NOT guarded... it actually COSTS money to shut them and barricade them.

sP

[Brickbat]

2. I think having people see them closed is effective and illustrative. They're symbols, and closing

them is also a symbol.

[Stinky The Clown]

4. If that's true - and it may well be - them it underscores the RW position on this.

And that would be another reason to *open* them.

"We are keeping the monuments open as a way to give our citizens a bright spot in the storm that rages in Washington."

[Brickbat]

6. If I heard that coming from the Democrats, I would think that staffing the national forest in my

back yard and the museum that is a huge tourist spot would also be a bright spot. I hate the picking and choosing, because I think it plays into the right-wing goal of eliminating "non-essential" departments, properties, and personnel from government funding.

[Niceguy1]

8. poliricians never

Miss a chance to work things to their advantage...in this csse to make the repugs look even more evil.

On the local level fire stations , or senior progams are favorites.

[lynne]

5. Monuments have been opened as a "First Amendment" right -

- at least, those open-air monuments such as the WWII, Vietnam, Korean War, etc. where there's no building involved. They were re-opened for "First Amendment" activities. Believes this applies to Philadelphia, as well.

[Recursion]

7. There have been some stupid optics here, like closing a park that NPS doesn't even run

However, most of these actions were laid out in directives and memos almost 2 decades ago (and the NPS did run that park back then, for instance), so we're kind of stuck with inertia here.

[FSogol]

9. Are you talking about the WWII Memorial? The NPS does run it. n/t

[Recursion]

13. Claude Moore Colonial Farm

That's been operated entirely by a self-funding non-profit since the early nineties.

[FSogol]

10. Closed areas require less security personnel than open areas.

They also require less cleaning, trash removal, etc.

[zipplewrath]

11. Suspended

There are people constantly caring for them, even if they appear to be unattended. Trash cans get emptied, bathrooms get maintained, and abuse and vandalism are confronted. You could probably put up signs indicating the restrooms are closed. You could remove the trash cans so they don't fill to over flowing. But at some point the "broken windows" effect starts. The homeless and the vandals move it because it becomes obvious that the facilities are vacant. Then the damage starts.

The barracades and closings in general make it easier to differentiate between the visitors and the vandals (for the few capitol police that are still working in/around the memorials). Politically, one can make the case that some flexibility here is in order. But it will simultaneously expose one to the accusations that decisions are being made on a political expediency base, not on a functional/legal basis.

[seabeyond]

14. the employees that work there are not being paid, hence, closed. nt

[Stinky The Clown]

15. No employees needed. nt

[Throd]

16. It is theater.

[OregonBlue]

17. Wasn't it just a couple of months ago that someone threw paint on two of those monuments? They

can be vandalized. They have been vandalized.

[BumRushDaShow]

19. Photo of this

[Stinky The Clown]

21. Yes. That happened while they were open

How, exactly (sine you raised the point) would closing the monument prevent that?

[BumRushDaShow]

23. The fact that it happened at all

and the fact that it has happened to other monuments like the Vietnam War Memorial, underscores what the Park Police union has stated -

"This type of reprehensible act is unfortunate but it did not permanently damage the memorial and this incident further underscores the need for the National Park Service to provide more funding and more personnel so as to provide a higher level of deterrence through officer presence. We are fortunate that this deplorable act can be remedied but caution that we are lucky that this wasn't an act of terrorism."

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/26/19703353-lincoln-memorial-paint-vandal-caught-on-video-police-seek-person-of-interest-sources-say?lite

Meaning these sites need MORE personnel to help "deter" (which is often their role). No one can stop a deranged person but if their presence can say, keep a bunch raucous teens from defacing these sites with graffiti, etc., then having these folks there definitely helps. In absence of that "deterrence", then a closure is prudent - more so if someone is injured (or a crime like rape or robbery occurs), and the U.S. government then becomes liable.

As an analogy - it's like a pool without a life guard. Prudent public pools close when none are available, otherwise they may be liabile for a drowning if they were open without that individual or individuals present.

[Stinky The Clown]

24. You failed to answer my question.

To this new point you're making, no argument.

Now please answer my question: How, specifically, would you suggest we close open space? How, specifically, would your suggestion prevent such vandalism? Please don't tell me portable barriers are going to stop miscreants bent on mischief.

[Roselma]

18. Liability issues.

You can sue for injury in public parks, if the parks did not have sufficient personnel and/or were lax in maintenance. Somebody cleans things every night when the parks are open. Somebody empties the trash barrels. Somebody assures full security. Those somebodies are on furlough.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

20. With security personnel furloughed, I support closing them

There is increased risk without security that bad actors would try something at these monuments. Putting barriers up also shows the administration is settling in for a long shutdown which I am sure is unnerving to GOP.

[Stinky The Clown]

22. Since you raised the point, what type of barrier, exactly, would you have them put in place?

A miscreant bent on mischief will not be stopped by portable barriers or velvet rope lines or yellow tape.

[BumRushDaShow]

25. You won't stop a deranged or determined person

but then that person was committing a crime and the liability issue goes away.

[Stinky The Clown]

26. How about signs that warn the facility is "closed" and you enter at your own risk

Risk of damage is the same. Liability gone. Monuments effectively open.

Many states do this on roadways under construction. "Road Legslly Closed" signs go up. Cars go thru. State has no liability.