Let's assume Boehner & co. NEVER back down. What options does Obama have?

[pffshht]

This is a hostage situation. Boehner is the head terrorist, making demands. Currently the place is surrounded, it's already a given that he's going down one way or another. And he has announced that at midnight (in this analogy, the debt default doomsday two weeks from now) they are going to start shooting the hostages.

But until then, the cops are still trying to reason with him and get him to turn himself in peacefully. That would continue until late in the eleventh hour, at which point the hostage negotiator puts down the megaphone and the SWAT commandos and rooftop snipers are given the signal to do their stuff.

I just want to know what form Obama's metaphorical SWAT team will take. All he's publicly said is that he's not giving them anything, ever, so they need to give up. But so far there has been no "or else."

Suppose neither side is willing to negotiate. Now it's a year later, the government is still shut down and continuing to default on its debts. No, of course that isn't going to happen. So the President can- and, if forced to, must do Something sooner or later.

Will he abolish the debt ceiling by executive order, saying he is required to by the 14th amendment?
Mint a pocketful of trillion dollar platinum coins?
Declare the stalemate a constitutional crisis, and have a constitutional convention to amend the procedural rules of congress in such a way that this cannot ever happen again?
Order Boehner to step down or be charged with contempt of Congress and removed from the premises?

What form do you think the Executive Banhammer will most likely take?

Anything he does along those lines is of course going to have the Rush Limbaugh / Fox News / Freeper crowd shitting I-beams and going full Alex Jones about how he's seizing imperial power and the next thing they know the UN troops are going to be going door to door taking their guns and throwing them in FEMA death camps, etc.

That's probably why there has been no public discussion of what is going to happen if & when Boehner decides he can just sit on the CR until he is no longer able to sit, and the economy be damned. I'm certain there has been plenty of behind-the scenes discussion, though; and maybe Obama just likes to hold his cards close.

[randome]

1. No other options. Default ruins the country and the economy.

I don't believe in scorched earth policies but at least this would finish the Republican party for good.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[2naSalit]

2. Good post

really interesting considerations to ponder.

Another DUer and I have been trying to hash out what can be done about this from the citizens' position and we have yet to discover one. The idea of a national emergency was the closest we got but there are obstacles to that route since the SCOTUS and Congress can object and reverse whatever the Executive chooses to do about it.

I'll have to look up Constitutional crisis and read through that, might be the way to go even if the freepers have a sh*tfit. They can be dealt with by way of citizen action without initiating their self-fulfilling prophecies.

I like the ideas you pose as possibilities. Thanks for offering them up.

Here's our serious and sane conversation started a few days ago...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023771974

[spanone]

3. what options do THEY have?

[pffshht]

9. Only two

• Ragequit :
"OKAY YOU JERKS CAN HAVE YOUR STUPID BUDGET I DIDN'T WANT IT ANYWAY" *sniffle* *sob* *kicks chairs over while storming out the door.*

• Down with the ship :
"For hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee! From hell's heart I stab at thee!"
Shut it down forever! Bring on the default! Let this Democrat-led government burn to the ground!

Right now I still sadly see the majority of Republicans as favoring option #2.

The ball's still in their court and all they have to do, to cause massive economic destruction, is nothing.
Which we know is the one thing Republicans do very well.

[karynnj]

4. Discharge petition - but it requires Republicans as well as even all the Democrats

I assume if Boehner carries this on too long that there would be enough Republicans who act for the country - especially on the debt ceiling. The US has never defaulted.

[pffshht]

8. If a discharge petition were started today,

The US would have been in default for a month by the time it actually went into effect. It's not something they can whip out at the last minute. So that isn't a solution.

[karynnj]

14. Using an old bill - they can do it in 7 days

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/government-shutdown-house-cr-vote-97849.html#.Uk8YJnO_Bko.twitter

[Buddha_of_Wisdom]

5. Obama can order these House Republicans detained and sent to Gitmo after designating them

as terrorists.

The people of America would back Obama up with a very large margin.

[mysuzuki2]

6. Obama should invite Boehner to the White House, tie him to a chair in the Oval Office

and beat him with an electrical cord until he sees reason. I'm just kidding but isn't it a tempting idea?:

[NickB79]

7. Drone strikes. nt

[Lex]

10. Something about invoking the 14th Amendment?

but I don't know how that goes exactly.

[MnAttorney]

11. 14th Amendment Route

There is a strong argument that President Obama has the constitutional authority to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling under the 14th amendment.

[Xolodno]

12. I would suspect...

...if the shit hit the fan...Obama goes nuclear and uses the 14th amendment.

And if the R's really did show that they were willing to send the country over the cliff, I think the Supreme Court just might side with Obama.

If they didn't...then its a mess.

Options or limited...but I remember watching movie on Nixon and when Nixon asked what were his options the lawyer responded "The Military?"

Scary to think it almost came to that. But you never know.

[ieoeja]

13. Boehner has already said that he won't stop them from raising the debt ceiling.

So this is not an issue.


Or were you talking about the current government shutdown because of no funding appropriations? The two are completely different issues that just happen to occur 17 days apart.

If Boehner never backs down on the current shutdown, then Obama only has two options:

1. get rid of Obamacare, authorize the Keystone Pipeline, increase offshore drilling, and a few dozen other demands by Boehner, or
2. let the government remain shutdown until 1 January 2015.


But there is a third party to all of this: State Legislatures. Two-thirds (34) of the State Legislatures can demand an Article V Convention for proposing Amendments to the Constitution of the United States. Such a Convention could propose an Amendment along the lines of:

"If no Appropriation has been made current by Law, per Article 1, Section 9 of this Constitution, for the Executive to perform an Action required by Law, the most recent Appropriation for that Action will continue until a new Appropriation is made, or the Law requiring that Action is repealed. If no prior Appropriation exists, the Action will not commence.

"When the Treasury does not have Money to satisfy Appropriations made by Law, the Treasury is implicitly authorized to raise that money through the issuance of Treasury Bills and Bonds."

If passed then ratified by three-fourths (38) of the States, last year's funding levels would continue unabated until funding is changed. The first paragraph would end this and all future shutdowns. The second paragraph would eliminate the debt ceiling for all time.


I wouldn't be surprised if that would alleviate the Congress of 99% of its workload freeing them to get down to the real business of Congress: fund-raising for their next election.

[Barack_America]

17. Boehner already welched on a deal with Reid to pass a clean CR.

His word means nothing.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

15. Boehner's already promised the moderate "freaking out" GOP he won't allow default

Now, by my numbers...the only thing he controls to hold good on that promise is the House. Which seems to indicate he will finally cave and let a vote come to the floor whereby all Dems and enough GOP can vote the straight debt ceiling increase and continuing resolution.

Of course, he could vote the debt limit increase and leave the CR unresolved....but it seems strange to do that--giving up your biggest bargaining chip and still holding out on the budget piece.

[Barack_America]

16. You smear the Republican brand to hell, then you move to replace Boehner...

...by getting enough constituent-fearing Republicans on board to pass a resolution to declare the Office of the Speaker vacant. Then you get Republicans and Dems behind a more moderate Republican speaker, if there's any of those left.