The Power of the Purse

[Chico Man]

The House of Representatives cannot only refuse, but they alone can propose, the supplies requisite for the support of government. They, in a word, hold the purse that powerful instrument by which we behold, in the history of the British Constitution, an infant and humble representation of the people gradually enlarging the sphere of its activity and importance, and finally reducing, as far as it seems to have wished, all the overgrown prerogatives of the other branches of the government.

This power over the purse may, in fact, be regarded as the most complete and effectual weapon with which any constitution can arm the immediate representatives of the people, for obtaining a redress of every grievance, and for carrying into effect every just and salutary measure.

James Madison - Federalist # 58

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/histdox/fed_58.html

[geek tragedy]

1. Hmm, where have I seen this before?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/27/politics/house-tea-party/index.html

Architect of the brink: Meet the man behind the government shutdown

In August, while lawmakers spent time in their districts, Meadows wrote a letter to his Republican leaders suggesting they tie the dismantling of Obamacare to the bill that funds the government for the next year.

The letter read: "James Madison wrote in Federalist No. 58 that 'the power over the purse may, in fact, be regarded as the most complete and effectual weapon... for obtaining a redress of every grievance...'"

Meadows successfully convinced 79 of his colleagues to sign on to his letter. And he went further, leading a group of 40 lawmakers to demand that the continuing resolution, or the short-term government funding bill at issue, zeroes out funding for President Barack Obama's signature domestic policy achievement so far.

Hmm, could this OP be trying to spread pro-GOP, pro-Tea Party propaganda here?

The general meme going around right now is that the House is setting some kind of dangerous precedent by attaching legislation to appropriations.

Hasn't this been done many many time before? Isn't this simply a rider?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rider_(legislation)

What's new (not entirely) in this case is that both sides are unwilling to compromise.

In the end, though, this is simply an appropriations rider, not some perversion of legislative process to destroy the US government.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023784381

Yep.

[Chico Man]

2. It's simple and effective..

And if you tear away all the media rabble rousing, we have a simple case of the "power of the purse" on our hands - a perfectly legitimate use of an appropriations rider.

This does make we worry, though, that the House carries the upper hand here, as this power was specifically intended to check the executive branch...

[geek tragedy]

4. Thank you for providing the Tea Party's perspective on government. Now kindly go back to Free

Republic.

[Chico Man]

6. Wow

That's not cool.

[geek tragedy]

8. No, spreading Teahadist talking points like "trying to nullify the general election results

by refusing to fund the government is unobjectionable" is what is not cool.

Obama is president, the ACA is the law, neither is going anywhere. Suck on that.

[Chico Man]

13. Well

At the present time the power of the purse is in control. And something's got to give.

[geek tragedy]

17. 75% of the House of Representatives favors ending the shutdown. It's only the Teahadist terrorist

club on the Republican side and their indentured servant Boehner that are closing down the government.

[Chico Man]

19. I think you are confusing the CR

With appropriations - that just moves the fight a few weeks down the road.

[geek tragedy]

21. How many appropriations bills have passed the House?

Oh yeah, none.

The House is controlled by people disinterested in governance, devoid of dignity, disdainful of reason.

They are a tantrum in search of a target.

[Chico Man]

23. And why is there not a democratic majority in the house?

Must also be part of the grand conspiracy..

Let's elect some reasonable reps next time around, shall we? Until then, let's not expect them to ignore the tools at their disposal.

[geek tragedy]

25. Gerrymandering and uneven concentrations of voters. Democrats got 1.5 million more votes than

Republicans in 2012.

The use of a tool does not make it a reasonable use of the tool. The President has the legal authority to veto every bill unless Congress increases his pay to $1 Billion dollars along with title to Hawaii.

O, it is excellent To have a giant's strength; but it is tyrannous To use it like a giant

[ProSense]

16. Maybe

"This does make we worry, though, that the House carries the upper hand here, as this power was specifically intended to check the executive branch..."

...you should read the rest of the text instead of trying to bolster Republican belligerence. I mean, the "power of the purse" wasn't intended as a tool for Republican terrorists to hold the Government hostage because they lost an election, hate a law or can't get what they want.

They, in a word, hold the purse that powerful instrument by which we behold, in the history of the British Constitution, an infant and humble representation of the people gradually enlarging the sphere of its activity and importance, and finally reducing, as far as it seems to have wished, all the overgrown prerogatives of the other branches of the government. This power over the purse may, in fact, be regarded as the most complete and effectual weapon with which any constitution can arm the immediate representatives of the people, for obtaining a redress of every grievance, and for carrying into effect every just and salutary measure. But will not the House of Representatives be as much interested as the Senate in maintaining the government in its proper functions, and will they not therefore be unwilling to stake its existence or its reputation on the pliancy of the Senate? Or, if such a trial of firmness between the two branches were hazarded, would not the one be as likely first to yield as the other? These questions will create no difficulty with those who reflect that in all cases the smaller the number, and the more permanent and conspicuous the station, of men in power, the stronger must be the interest which they will individually feel in whatever concerns the government. Those who represent the dignity of their country in the eyes of other nations, will be particularly sensible to every prospect of public danger, or of dishonorable stagnation in public affairs.

[geek tragedy]

20. +1 nt

[Chico Man]

22. They must feel strongly about this then

And they are elected officials after all. Calling them terrorists does nothing to bolster your case; however I do appreciate the additional context.

[ProSense]

24. "Calling them terrorists does nothing to bolster your case"

"And they are elected officials after all. Calling them terrorists does nothing to bolster your case; however I do appreciate the additional context."

They're holding the country hostage, people are suffering, losing pay and their goal is to deny tens of millions of Americans health care.

They're terrorists.

Ted Cruz Warns That Shutdown Could Lead To A Terrorist Attack Against U.S.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023767928

[Chico Man]

3. How is quoting James Madison propaganda?

Or understanding how the government works?

[geek tragedy]

5. You share a brain with the Teahadist terrorist who decided that shutting down the government

in order to nullify the results of a national election was justified.

Under your Teabrain lizard logic, attaching a rider demanding that the President resign would be perfectly acceptable.

Sell that shit to your fellow travelers on the extreme right.

[geek tragedy]

9. Yes, and he's going to break you and your fellow terrorists on the right.

Your lines are already cracking.

You guys LOST in November.

[Chico Man]

10. No doubt

something's got to give.

I've been planning this propaganda since 2001 when I created my account here! How's that for a 13 year plan?

[geek tragedy]

11. You've done nothing but post diluted pro-Republican talking points since then.

Just enough to avoid decloaking as a Republican, until now.

[Chico Man]

12. Does it matter how I vote?

Does it matter that I think? And question? And debate?

[geek tragedy]

14. According to the TOS here, yes, nt

[Chico Man]

15. Good

Then I'd say my presence should be welcome.

Now if only my party members would take a step back from the screen and the hoopla and look at this objectively..

[geek tragedy]

18. Your party members are shutting down the government out of childish stupidity.

A childish stupidity you are endorsing here.

[LiberalAndProud]

26. The Hastert rule has placed the power of the purse in the hands

of a handful of men who represent a distinct electoral minority. It is dysfunctional and foolish. It is not working as it was designed to work, and the American people are paying the price. A failing America is a good thing in their estimation, deluded fools that they are.

[treestar]

27. I doubt he meant it should be used to stop laws duly passed

by the same body. (though it may change composition, it is still the Congress of the US). Those laws could not be a "grievance." I don't think that Madison could have foreseen this situation.