Is NYC's Taxi of Tomorrow in Trouble?

[Agschmid]

In just a few weeks' time, all new NYC taxis (except hybrids) will be required to be NV200s. The Nissan NV200 won NYC's "Taxi of Tomorrow" competition, and on paper it looks great: It's easy to get in and out of; it's roomy on the inside; it's compact on the outside; the horn is reportedly less annoying to the ear; it has charging ports; it has easy-to-locate contrasting-color seatbelt buckles; it has an intercom system so you can communicate clearly with the driver; and coolest of all it's got rear sliding doors, meaning bicyclists will now have the pleasure of crashing directly into oblivious taxi-exiters holding soft shopping bags rather than a metal swinging door.

There are tons of videos showing the NV200, but this AP video is one of the better explanations of the taxi:

So starting October 28th, we should see these all over the city, right?

Wrong.

[frazzled]

1. Why would a driver/company want to get 24 mpg

when they can get double that (around 50 mpg) from, say, a Prius taxi?

[Atman]

2. How many people fit in a Prius?

The Prius just isn't practical as a taxi.

[mwooldri]

4. I disagree.

The Prius is a perfectly good taxi vehicle. Though IMO not for NYC.

[frazzled]

9. Five, and Chicago is filled with Prius taxis

They're quite roomy, fine for tall people since the roof is high. And they now come in a small vanlike configuration.

How many people usually get in a taxi anyway?

[mwooldri]

3. A Prius taxi isn't really roomy...

It doesn't have the interior space that the Nssan has, or the London TX4 taxi. Both of these have a wheelchair accessibility option, I think accessibility is standard on the TX4.

As for fuel economy, the TX4 diesel is more fuel efficient than the Nissan (halfway between the Nissan and the Prius). Definitely more fuel efficient than a Crown Vic at 11 mpg. Nissan are developing an electric version... if a diesel or hybrid solution were offered, it would improve on that 24mpg...

However different vehicles for different jobs... the TX4 was designed with London in mind, the Nissan with NYC in mind. The Crown Vics, the Ford Fusions, and the Toyota Prius cannot have a wheelchair roll on board... the wheelchair occupant would need to be removed, and the chair stowed away - good luck with a bulky electric chair...

I think the Nissan will work well in NYC. It just needs to be given a chance.

[wercal]

6. I watched the video and there was no mention of wheelchairs.

Is there a pull out ramp?

Or a powered lift?

Is there a seat permanently missing to make room?

Or is this just a case of a few of the Nissans being converted? If that's the case, the entire fleet shouldn't be dictated by ADA.

[mwooldri]

8. just an available option... needs longer vehicle.

Fold up seats. Pull out ramp.

Fortunately NYC isn't as accessible-mad as London... the iconic Routemaster bus was scrapped partly because of its inaccessibility. The Boris Bus fixes this... very accessible.

[Agschmid]

13. I believe it is not a conversion... But purpose built.

[Agschmid]

5. They do mention that a hybrid model is forthcoming...

but there aren't many more facts than that mention.

Nissan was overall "late" to the hybrid scene.

[ConcernedCanuk]

7. As a previous cabbie - I like it, I believe customers will too.

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.
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I drove different vehicles, but the minivans were much more comfortable and popular than regular cars.

Minivans are easier to get in and out of, and you have a better/safer view of what is ahead - being higher than a regular car.

One thing the narrative leaves out, but is in the video, is the whole roof is transparent, affording a view of the city and sky above.

The elderly have a much easier time getting in and out of a minivan, something low to the ground like a Crown Vic (which I drove one now and then) is more of a chore for them.

I hope this, or another van style catches on.

CC

[coldmountain]

10. American built Ford C-max hybrid would be a perfect taxi with 43mpg combined

The article says the Ford C-Max is the taxi drivers cab of choice right now.

http://www.ford.com/cars/cmax/gallery/photos/

BTW, Ford hybrid C-max is built in Wayne Michigan by UAW workers. So we have an American car company building in America with union workers vs a JapanInc company building in Mexico.

[FarCenter]

14. Ford proposed a version of the Connect, which I think is made in Turkey

[coldmountain]

16. Sounds like the drivers want the C-max

All those type compact vans are presently made outside America, Transit, Promaster, NV, etc

[FarCenter]

18. article says: "drivers prefer hybrids like the Ford Escape, which gets 34 m.p.g. vs the NV200's 25"

And that is one that the owners are buying ahead of the deadline.

The C-max would be smaller and it would be harder to make wheel-chair accessible.

[coldmountain]

19. In the comments it was said the taxi drivers preferred the Ford C-Max hybrid

"the Ford cmax (the taxi owner's car of choice right now) gets twice as much mpg per mile than the Nissan, the Nissan will cost the owner driver at least $20 per day more , that's $7000, about a year and it will cost much more to buy, they've got to torture me before I buy that monster minivan!!!!!"

http://www.core77.com/blog/transportation/is_nycs_taxi_of_tomorrow_in_trouble_25666.asp#more

[Agschmid]

15. I do like the built in America idea...

So the new Fords are great cars.

[Barack_America]

20. We just bought one. The Energi version. Freaking LOVE it!

Fantastic family car for those in urban/suburban areas.

[trumad]

11. Buy American. ..meh

[Union Scribe]

12. Fucking Bloomberg.

I can see mandating emission levels or hybrids but saying they have to buy Nissans? Doesn't surprise me considering how much he hates American workers. NY is a joke under the reign of that petty tyrant.

[Midwestern Democrat]

17. It's a disgrace - Japanese taxis in America's flagship city. N/T

[grantcart]

21. from the comments at the link

On the American-made issue, I will say this.....the NV200 was largely conceived at Nissan North America's Tennesseee headquarters, designed at its facility in LaJolla, California, and tested at its facility in Arizona. In fact, while State law prohibited the TLC from requiring the Taxi of Tomorrow be American-made, it so happens that none of the seven proposals we received would have been manufactured in the USA. The now discontinued Ford Crown Victoria was manufactured in Canada and the vehicle Ford proposed to replace it, the Transit Connect, is manufactured in Turkey. In fact, the NV200 has far and away the highest NAFTA content of any of the design contest's finalists! I hope this adds some perspective to the discussion.

Comment: it could be that due to the relatively small numbers that the retooling costs for US plants would not make it competitive to be made here, but just guessing.

[coldmountain]

22. Wikepedia says something different! This van has been in Japan since 2009

"The Nissan NV200 is a light commercial vehicle produced by Nissan. It was first shown as the NV200 Concept at the 2007 Tokyo Motor Show. It was launched in Japan as Nissan NV200 Vanette on May 21, 2009, and in Europe in autumn 2009.[8] In April 2010, it was named the Professional Van and Light Truck Magazine Van of the Year 2010. In China, the NV200 is built by Nissan in partnership with Dongfeng Motor, and was released in June 2010.[9] In Indonesia, where it is also manufactured since 2012, the car is marketed as the "Evalia", available in standard S, more equipped SV and top of the line XV.[6] An electric vehicle based on NV200 is planned.[10]
The NV200 was one of three finalists (alongside the Karsan V-1 and Ford Transit Connect) for New York City's Taxi of Tomorrow. The Nissan was announced as the winner in May 2011 and is expected to be awarded a 10-year contract to provide the city exclusively with some 13,000 yellow cabs, starting in 2013.[11][12] The European version with the 1.5L Diesel four-cylinder gets 54.4 averaged mpg (44 miles per US gallon); however, the American version will obtain fewer miles per gallon.[13] The American version will be built in Mexico and powered by a 2.0L gasoline four-cylinder engine and has been rated at 25mpg(US)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_NV200

It's not like JapanInc aren't a well known bunch of liars.

[grantcart]

23. one of the references in the article announced that GM is going to be selling a version of this

which would tend to confirm the idea that retooling costs make it too expensive for our larger higher volume plants to make it:

http://media.gm.com/content/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2013/May/0514-chevy-small-cargo-vehicle.html

GM will procure the vehicle from Nissan and distribute it through the Chevrolet dealer network. GM expects the Chevrolet City Express, based on the Nissan NV200, to be available for sale in the fall of 2014.

“Our fleet customers have asked us for an entry in the commercial small van segment, so this addition to the Chevrolet portfolio will strengthen our position with fleets and our commercial customers,” said Ed Peper, U.S. vice president of GM Fleet and Commercial Sales.

Joe Castelli, Nissan vice president, commercial vehicles and fleet added, “Working with partners to expand markets for our innovative products enhances Nissan’s growth and manufacturing efficiency by leveraging our capacity to meet growing demand in this space.”

Nissan currently sells a version of the vehicle as the NV200 in numerous markets globally, including the United States and Canada. The Nissan NV200, a spacious-yet-compact commercial vehicle, is a previous winner of the International Van of the Year Award. Cost of ownership for the vehicle is among the lowest in the class due to low running costs, the high efficiency of the engines and drivetrains and a safety structure that helps to minimize crash damage.

[coldmountain]

24. Why not let the taxi drivers drive the US and Canadian cars they want instead imposing JapanInc cars