Shouldn't shutting down the govt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling be illegal?

[cynatnite]

My mother is a RW Repub. She vote for bush and Rmoney.

On most things we have opposing views. A few things we strongly agree such as abortion and women's rights.

Anyway, her and I both are frustrated with the shutdown and threat to the debt ceiling. We were both pretty outraged about how so many people have already been hurt by this.

Not only that, we're both scared. Her and my grandmother are seniors on fixed incomes. My husband is a truck driver and his company is already feeling the effects of the shutdown. If the debt ceiling isn't raised, it won't take long and he will be shut down as a result.

So, both her and I think that it should be illegal for political parties to be able to use the government and the debt ceiling for political maneuvering. We think that there should be some kind of penalty to the house and the senate should they not pass a budget or raise the debt ceiling every year on a fixed date.

The way we see it, no political party should have so much power that they could inflict this kind of damage and hurt as many people as the repubs have. Their political posturing can be used in other ways without having to go to these lengths.

Maybe this is just shortsighted, but it seems to me that this is an assault on our government and on the American people. It should be illegal.

What do you all think?

[Politicalboi]

1. Stealing an election is illegal

Going to war over lies is illegal. Nobody got arrested yet. But I do agree. There should be some action taken so that it never even gets this close to closing anything down. The firing squad may be a good threat. LOL! At least Boner will be able to have one last cigarette, but with Boner, he will demand the whole pack first, then negotiate for the carton.

And I kid about the firing squad. Just a "threat". No action.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

2. Can't the Prez invoke the 14th Amendment?

To avert a national emergency?

[Kelvin Mace]

4. I think so,

and he has made some noise in that direction. See my post below for more, if you wish.

[Kelvin Mace]

3. The law is crystal clear:

14th Amendment, Section 4:

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

Of course, the GOP pushed through the "Full Faith & Credit Act" in May that mandates in the event of a failure to raise the debt ceiling, bond holders move to the front of the line (America's creditors), and all discretionary spending is cut to meet the obligations of the debt. That is pretty much a pipe dream, since the U.S. currently owes in the neighborhood of $16.7 TRILLION dollars. So, in the event of a default (which is how our creditors would see the failure to raise the debt ceiling) if only 25% of our creditors demanded payment, that would clock in at a bit over $4 trillion. Discretionary spending for 2013 is $1.25 trillion so the U.S. would have to cancel ALL discretionary spending (that would be everything EXCEPT Social Security, Medicare, pensions and the like) for the next THREE years to meet our obligations, provided our creditors were willing to wait that long.

I think Obama has leverage under the 14th Amendment, and the FF&C Act is unworkable, and probably unconstitutional, though whether the SCOTUS would rule that way is a flip of a coin.

I predict that if push comes to shove, Obama will use the 14th to raise the debt ceiling, and will be impeached for it. He will be acquitted in the Senate, and the drama will go on.