NYC motorcycle road rage incident may have ruined a large investigation

[steve2470]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57606634/nyc-motorcycle-road-rage-incident-may-have-ruined-a-large-investigation/

(CBS News) There were two more arrests in the biker road rage case in New York. One suspect is an undercover police detective, and has been charged in the attack. He is allegedly seen on video hitting and kicking an SUV, before the driver, Alexian Lien, was attacked.

CBS News senior correspondent John Miller, a former deputy commissioner with the New York Police Department, said on "CBS This Morning": "This is a story that starts out as not such a good day (for the NYPD) because they had a detective on the scene who was undercover, who took no action to intervene, and then waited four days to come forward and say, 'I was there.' That got worse (on Tuesday) when they reviewed the videotapes they received this week from other sources other than the YouTube video we first saw, and they see their own detective allegedly banging out the back window of the SUV during the incidents that led up to the man being dragged from the car. So that really changed the calculus from, was this a departmental matter to a criminal matter."

Turning to the police detective's undercover status, Miller said not breaking cover is one of the officer's primary jobs, but added, "that doesn't mean that you can't get in the middle and say, 'Hey guys, break it up,' or 'let's stop this.' You don't have to jump out and say, 'I am a secret police officer'. "

However, the officer was not only not intervening, he was allegedly part of the melee.

[gopiscrap]

1. Fucking asshole cop

and he probably figured because he was a god damn cop he would get away with it.

[cui bono]

2. Where's the part your heading alludes to?

Do I really have to click on the link? I already read the part you posted a couple days ago.

[steve2470]

3. it's speculation pretty much, no hard news, so no need to click it nt

[Blue_Tires]

4. The NYPD needed a "large" investigation

just to bring down a hoon club??

PLEASE tell me these guys are into much bigger criminal activities other than being assholes on the street....

[Warren Stupidity]

5. Oh bullshit. There were at least three cops in this gang.

I guess they were conducting a deep undercover investigation of themselves.

[TorchTheWitch]

6. it makes sense that any cops involved were on assignment

as undercovers. It would be the smart thing to do in order to identify and catch these thugs since nothing else was working, and they weren't allowed to chase them because of the safety factor... and there's no hope of catching a crazy person on a two wheeled rocket that is willing to drive on sidewalks, run people down, cut through narrow alleys or whatever in order to get away.

It's obvious that the undercover cop that was so stupid as to actually involve himself in causing damage to the SUV was on assignment to infiltrate this group, and I would assume that any other officers thought to be involved in the ride were also part of a major infiltration operation... with something like 1000 bikers it hardly makes sense to just put in one single undercover. Undercover operations are a huge part of police investigations of all stripes. Hell, they put in undercovers just for a sizable peaceful protest of some sort. Why would they NOT put in undercovers to infiltrate this thug biker group especially when conventional methods in trying to catch them weren't working? I'd consider the department negligent if they DIDN'T have a major undercover operation to try catching these shitbag bikers creating havoc all over public roads.

And thanks to the media not finding that out before flapping their yaps they may have destroyed an operation to infiltrate this group. And NOW in hindsight they finally figure that out? It should have been obvious to the media as soon as they found out about this one undercover cop that he was assigned to infiltrate this group and that if there were other officers on the ride that there was a huge possibility that it was an undercover operation that they should have found out about before fucking it up by making it public. It ain't rocket science.

[Warren Stupidity]

7. Sheesh. One was allegedly "undercover".

He is now "under arrest". There were at least two other cops who were just riding around terrorizing civilians with the rest of these mooks. This is 'roid bro bullshit. It stank of bad cop right from the start, but only if you paid attention.

[TorchTheWitch]

8. uh, he was undercover

assigned to infiltrate this group. Why else would he tell his superiors he was worried about blowing his cover. He's a 10 year veteran that usually does narcotics undercover work, and yes, he's an asshole for participating in bashing the SUV and lying to his superiors about that... he certainly didn't need to do that to preserve his cover especially since plenty of the other bikers didn't participate in that either. Sorry you refuse to believe that. And no, it didn't stink of bad cop from the start. The bad folks here are these hundreds and hundreds of bikers that do this shit all the time and for years have been doing this illegal NYC big event. Not my fault if unreasonable cop hate keeps you from seeing the obvious or what the media has discovered about this guy. Good that they arrested him - he deserved it.

[Warren Stupidity]

9. "Why else"? - a failed attempt to cover his ass.

Plus at least two other cops in the gang.

Oh and his lawyers are no longer making the claim that he was acting in his capacity as an undercover detective at the time. That story was bullshit from the start.

[TorchTheWitch]

11. Again, you aren't thinking logically

Why would he say that knowing that his superiors would know if he was undercover to infiltrate the group? It makes no sense for him to say he was on the ride and didn't do anything in order to preserve his cover if he was NOT on assignment to infiltrate the group because if it wasn't his assignment then he doesn't have any NEED to preserve his cover. Where do you think their assignments come from? His superiors. They're the ones that assign to him his undercover jobs and of course would know whether or not he was assigned to infiltrate this group. He wasn't trying to cover up the fact that he was on the ride, he was trying to cover up what he DID on the ride. Obviously he wasn't trying to cover up the fact that he was on the ride since HE voluntarily went to THEM to say that while he was on the ride he did nothing to try to stop the bikers from beating on the SUV and Mr. Lien to try to preserve his cover. It was his "did nothing" claim that was the lie.

His attorneys never made the claim that he wasn't on the ride. Why on earth would they when he voluntarily went to his superiors who already knew he was on the ride and why. He NEVER tried to cover up that he was on the ride and neither did his attorneys. They already knew he was on the ride, and that was never the problem... and it wasn't a problem because being on the ride was his assignment. The problem was why did he do nothing to try to stop what the bikers were doing in beating on the SUV and Mr. Lien, and his claim as to why he did nothing was to try preserving his cover. But then they found out from other video that he lied about doing nothing as he's seen in that other video beating on the SUV's back window. THAT was what he was trying to cover up, and THAT is why he was arrested... for lying to his superiors in saying he did nothing to try to stop the carnage in order to preserve his cover and their discovering that he DID take part in that carnage.

Like I said, it's not rocket science.

[joeybee12]

13. Makes sense? Yeah, I guess it makes sense that he came forward 4 days later,

lied about his involvement, about what he did there until the cameras footage surfaced showing that he lied, too? And you have the gall to tell others they aren't thinking "logically."

[TorchTheWitch]

20. he never lied about being on the ride

That was never the issue. His coming forward at all makes no sense if there was a problem with him being on the ride. Neither does it make sense for him to try covering up what he DID on the ride by claiming he allowed the beating of the car and Mr. Lien in order to preserve his cover. His lying and trying to cover up was for what he DID on the ride, not the fact that he was on it. And he came forward 4 days later because he's not stupid and knew there was a chance that trying to lie about what he DID on the ride would be discovered. So, he waited and gambled that they wouldn't find out, but eventually they did find out what he DID on the ride in taking part in the assault on the SUV... it was for THAT and lying about it by saying he did nothing to try to stop that carnage in order to preserve his cover that was why he was arrested.

If he wasn't on assignment there is no reason for him to say anything about trying to preserve his cover because without his being on assignment to infiltrate the group there is no NEED to preserve any cover. It makes no sense at all for him to claim he was trying to preserve his cover if he wasn't on assignment to infiltrate the group in the first place.

[MindPilot]

14. How about some roadblocks?

Cops think nothing of setting up roadblocks to harass and detain hundreds of drivers under the guise of scoring a couple of duces, but for a 1000 hoodlums on bikes, they need an undercover investigation? Pull the other one.

[TorchTheWitch]

16. they did

There were several points on several routes toward Times Square which was how they caught 15 bikers and confiscated 55-57 (I've read both) bikes.

Infiltrating the group with several undercovers would have been the wisest choice though. That's how they can gather names and descriptions and other intel to get these thugs. Why else would they put in undercovers for protests? It works. Of course, for peaceful protests they should be leaving those people alone since they aren't doing anything illegal. And shame on the heads of police departments that do it because that's what the pols want.

[B Calm]

10. Every damn one of them should be arrested for dangerous driving!

[Paolo123]

12. Let me play the Devil's advocate here.

Now, I hate police by and large and most of them just like the power that comes with the badge. But, for example, Donnie Brasco committed all sorts of crimes and he is lauded as a hero. Is it possible that these guys were on to something really big and that is why they didn't break cover at all?

[Blue_Tires]

15. I'm curious to know what other wrongdoing these clubs are accused of

because being a bunch of hoons and assholes on the street doesn't warrant a major investigation...

[TorchTheWitch]

18. why doesn't it?

You think the police should just ignore these guys causing accidents and scaring the shit out of people on the public roads?

Damn right it warrants a major investigation. And shame on the police for not doing much of anything about them in past years.

[Blue_Tires]

19. that they need *multiple* undercovers?

what happened to just doing the slightest bit of internet detective work and finding out their meeting dates, places and planned routes? (because they can only be in so many places in the greater NYC region)...

And why even have an undercover(s) if there is no mechanism for them to immediately and surreptitiously signal for backup when the shit hits the fan?

[TorchTheWitch]

22. of course they'd need multiple undercovers

with a group of 1000 bikers that are spread all over the place using different routes toward Times Square. They'd need a fucking army of them. There was no need to signal for back up, and if back up isn't fucking RIGHT THERE it's useless. Since most of the bikers weren't taking part in carnage on the SUV and its occupants all he needed to do was try and stop it and still preserve his cover just as was described by John Miller here...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57606634/nyc-motorcycle-road-rage-incident-may-have-ruined-a-large-investigation/
CBS News senior correspondent John Miller, a former deputy commissioner with the New York Police Department, said on "CBS This Morning": "This is a story that starts out as not such a good day (for the NYPD) because they had a detective on the scene who was undercover, who took no action to intervene, and then waited four days to come forward and say, 'I was there.' That got worse (on Tuesday) when they reviewed the videotapes they received this week from other sources other than the YouTube video we first saw, and they see their own detective allegedly banging out the back window of the SUV during the incidents that led up to the man being dragged from the car. So that really changed the calculus from, was this a departmental matter to a criminal matter."

Turning to the police detective's undercover status, Miller said not breaking cover is one of the officer's primary jobs, but added, "that doesn't mean that you can't get in the middle and say, 'Hey guys, break it up,' or 'let's stop this.' You don't have to jump out and say, 'I am a secret police officer'. "

.......

Undercovers are for gathering intel, and if the 'shit hits the fan' while they're doing that their primary job is to not break their cover so they can be used again for other assignments. If the 'shit hits the fan' they're on their own. That's why it is such dangerous work. AFTER the undercover has gotten the info they need, they get out, and THEN the regular uniformed forces go in and make arrests so the undercover's true identity and mission remains unknown. It's like being a spy. Actually, in reality it is being a spy, and a spy is no longer any use as a spy if their identity and mission are discovered. That means no back up even for YOURSELF much less anyone else. But as Miller says, he wouldn't have needed to break his cover to try to stop the carnage.

[Blue_Tires]

24. So without the benefit of someone else videotaping the incident

I'm wondering just how close police would have been to making some arrests...

I'm also wondering how much real, usable "intel" the cops were able to dig up before their cover was blown (They better have something to show for such a 'major' investigation...)

[Paolo123]

21. Well we don't know that?

Perhaps some of them are hard core killers or something. It's not like the police would just up and tell us that.

[Blue_Tires]

23. I'm guessing if they were hardcore killers, the FBI would be involved

[Sunlei]

17. If not for 'helmet cam youtube upload' none of them would have been caught

Including the hate to be on video police