An Exec order to save the nation, can Tony Scalia stop it

[DonCoquixote]

A lot of people are askign why Obama does not mint the trillion dollar coin, or drop the 14th amendment. My own idea, which I offer up for discussion, is that everybody knows the fix is in from the Spuremes, the same assholes that got us Bush V Gore. If Obama tried to do an EO, what could Fat Tony and his gang do, and what can they NOT do?

[PoliticAverse]

1. They could just say it was unconstitutional. Happens all the time that the Supreme Court

disagrees with the executive branch's opinion on a matter. That's all.

In the event the debt limit hasn't been increased I fully expect the court to
find that the 14th amendment means that the debts of the US must be paid.

[backscatter712]

2. If I were Obama, I wouldn't use the 14th Amendment.

I'd simply declare a national emergency and order the debt limit raised unilaterally, and order executive-branch heads to fund and operate their departments in a way "that protects and preserves the national security of the United States, in a situation where the country is in economic jeopardy".

He could argue that he has that authority as Commander in Chief.

[Uncle Joe]

3. As much as I disagree with the Republican dominated Supreme Court they don't always rule against

the Obama Administration.

The Affordable Care Act being one example.

I'm not of the belief that Obama could legally mint a trillion dollar coin but I'm convinced if they challenged the Congress for violating the 14th Amendment, they stand a much better chance.

The power of the purse is with the Congress but the Congress by just threatening not to raise the debt ceiling have De Facto called the nation's debt in to question, thus violating the 14th Amendment.

Thanks for the thread, DonCoquixote.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

4. Lots of possibilities

In a fight between the other two branches, the SC doesn't usually want to involve itself. So, they could just say no, not taking the case. If they do that after Obama has de facto raised it by EO, I suppose he wins.
The problem is going to be that between the time he does whatever he does and the time the SC rules on the validity of his action, or doesn't rule, as the case may be, the bonds & notes issued will be under a legal cloud. Interest rates will rise anyway, and we'll suffer some sort of slowdown, if not outright recession, regardless.

[Uncle Joe]

5. I would think regarding a case with such massive national ramifications, the SC would take it

post-haste.

Should the nation default on its' debt the results will be catastrophic to our economy, no doubt the SC must realize this.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

6. Not taking the case is an action.

De facto Obama would win. It's not like there's a higher court to appeal to. Kinda like finding the debt ceiling law unconstitutional by way of not ruling on it at all.
Next up would be an impeachment no doubt, but the Senate would never convict, so that would be dramatic, but entirely irrelevant.
They could shut down the gov't again though, so it's not like the relevant drama would end. Lots of possibilities, like I said.

[Uncle Joe]

8. I don't understand your first paragraph, I realize there is no higher court than the SC

but what do you mean here?

De facto Obama would win. It's not like there's a higher court to appeal to. Kinda like finding the debt ceiling law unconstitutional by way of not ruling on it at all.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

10. Because in that case what Obama does by EO,

including issuing the bonds and notes under that EO, would be valid, not having been found unconstitutional. That nullifies the debt ceiling law, as it is unenforceable. In effect, they are finding that the Congress can't tie the hands of the President.

[Zorra]

7. It's a win-win either way. The president tries to singlehandedly save the country, and republicans,

and conservatives on the SCOTUS prevent him from doing so.

Obama becomes an instant American hero, and republicans become extinct and sink into the tar pits of history.

SCOTUS agrees with the president, Obama is still a hero, but republicans get a shot at continuing to survive as a political entity.

[Uncle Joe]

11. If the SCOTUS prevents Obama from minting the trillion dollar coin,

he would be a hero but the economic ramifications would be devastating and the Republicans aren't going anywhere at least until next November.

If the SCOTUS agrees with Obama re: the 14th Amendment the debt ceiling "Sword of Damocles" wil have been removed from future administrations, otherwise they will be subject to the same extortion and our nation will lurch from one budgetary, financial crisis to the next as our national credit rating continues to erode.

I believe the Republican Party; despite their meltdown will survive regardless, and if they don't they will rebrand under a different name with a warm and fuzzy image until the American People forget the consequences of their actions.

[flamingdem]

9. Why should Obama take it on himself and destroy his Presidency?

He's not supposed to be a sacrificial lamb. Think about it.

[gristy]

12. Why would this destroy his presidency?

I would expect more backup for such an assertion.

[flamingdem]

14. The evidence is that the Teaparty will tie him up with impeachment and the Supremes

will not be reliable at all.

[Swede Atlanta]

13. I think there are several possible actions the President could take, each with

varying degrees of risk and political theater.

(1) Use the 14th Amendments affirmative directive that the credit of the United States shall not be questioned. The defense would be this is an action required to enforce/uphold the intent of the 14th Amendment by the Executive.

(2) Declare a state of emergency because the shutdown of the government and the default on the debt affect not only the security of the U.S. broadly (i.e. protecting us from foreign enemies) but also poses a threat to our entire economy and way of life and lastly is causing real harm to the health and well-being of Americans. The defense would be the President as Commander in Chief has an obligation to protect the nation from all enemies, domestic and foreign.

Either one would be met with swift legal action by the right-wing nuts. The Supreme Court would likely immediately take the case. At the same time the House would impeach the President and the trial would result in nothing because the Senate will not vote to convict.

Both are bad options but quite honestly when you are dealing with terrorists you have to do something.

[Cha]

16. PBO has to do something.. it remains to be seen exactly

what. I just hope we do have "options".. bad or not.

It's been reported that he said he wouldn't do the 14th Amendment because of the chaos that would lead to. but, would it be worse than having our Country shutdown and default?

thanks for your analysis, SA

[Avalux]

15. Obama has already said he won't use the 14th amendment.

He understands the firestorm that would ensue, and the possibility his decision could be ruled unconstitutional. Pukes would definitely impeach over it.