I am handicapped -- this morning Spires Restaurant in Torrance , CA, discriminated against me.

[Hepburn]

I am hearing impaired. I wear hearing aids and have a service dog. I have some hearing due to the aids, but my service dog is an alert dog and is very necessary for me to get around and get around safely.

Today, a friend and I went to breakfast at Spires and were told the following:

They have a segregated area for anyone with a service dog because other patrons are offended by having a dog in the restaurant. -- per Assistant Manager at Spires, Torrance, CA

My gawd, these people live in the dark ages...they have a space reserved for people who have disabilities which offend other patrons.



Please kick and get the word out for those who live in SoCal and in the Torrance, CA, area -- this is no place to go unless you are perfect and do not offend others.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. How disgusting.

There must be places where such discrimination doesn't happen.

I am sorry this happened to you.

[Hepburn]

4. My friends and I went to Dennys and the manager there was a real doll.

She even asked if my dog needed anything and joked with us. After we ate, I told her what had happened to us at Spires and her mouth dropped open and she said, "That is against the law." Told us that the dog and I are welcome at that Dennys anytime.

[kardonb]

158. service dogs

most dogs are far better behaved than a lot of out of control kids parents bring into restaurants .

[mythology]

248. To be fair, the service dogs are also better behaved

than many of the parents of said out of control kids or other non-parent adults for that matter.

But how does somebody get offended by a service dog? I mean what exactly is offensive about them? But I'm probably asking too much rationality out of humanity.

[Hepburn]

2. Thank you for the rec...

...the Assistant manager did this to me in front of at least 10 people and had made us wait for a table until she had time to explain that they had a "new policy" at Spires regarding service dogs. Then she told us we basically were not welcome there unless I agree to be segregated from other patrons.

Unbelievable!!!!!

[efhmc]

85. Never heard of this restaurant but have now and not in a good way.

[RKP5637]

107. I would pass this incident by the ACLU, just to see what they say ... it might

not be big enough for them to take action, but it would provide a heads up to the ACLU. Maybe enough restaurants are doing this and if so, they might take action.

[NYC_SKP]

114. Which Spires? Hawthorne or Sepulveda? I'm guessing Hawthorne. Yelp links here:

Hawthorne: http://www.yelp.com/biz/spires-restaurant-torrance

Sepulveda: http://www.yelp.com/biz/spires-restaurants-torrance

I'm looking for a franchise or ownership link for lodging complaints, no luck yet.

[haele]

141. New Policy? More like a stupid over-reaction to Beverly Hills Bimbos and their purse dogs.

Last edited Sun Oct 13, 2013, 04:51 PM - Edit history (1)

One of the ladies at work trains service dogs for PTSD sufferers and vets, brings them into work to train them for work and public environments.

She is furious at the "self-entitled accessory owners" who claim their dog de jour is a service dog when the bored, psychotic, untrained little fluffy they brought out to match their outfit cause chaos in public.

Those people make so much trouble for real service dogs. Sure, they might have issues a trained service dog or companion animal might help, but it's borderline animal abuse to purchase an untrained dog, haul it around because you feel like it, and expect it to teach itself to be a service dog.

I had a cat I loved like a baby that did well on a leash, but I wouldn't ever think of calling it a service animal and take it everywhere. Nor would I impose such expectations on the dog I used to have; though she was a working breed, Shari just didn't have the temperament to be a service dog.

I'm sorry that Spires management doesn't have enough gumption to tell those owners that a dog that can't sit quiet or mind orders in public is evidence that it definitely is not a trained service dog and won't be treated like one. And not take it out on patrons who really do have service dogs.

Most of the time, trained service dogs are near invisible when someone takes them into a resturant or other public space.

Edited because time and family interrupted the earlier post.



Haele

[LoisB]

3. I wouldn't expect anything different in Teabag Torrance.

[Hepburn]

5. No shit...

...they act like being disabled was something filthy and catching. It was awful.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. And off to the Greatest Page for this important story!

[Hepburn]

10. Thank you, Peggy...

...and a HUGE hug back to you!

[leftstreet]

7. Your disability didn't bother others, the dog did. Right?

That's how you've characterized the restaurant policy

[Hepburn]

14. I guess so...

....but their policy is that anyone with a service dog is segregated from other patrons. Those with walkers, crutches, etc., are OK...my guess.

I can tell you this: My service dog is better behaved than 90% of the children I see in restaurants. She sits and then lays down and does not move or get up unless I give a command for her to do so.

[leftstreet]

15. No doubt

I was just confused by your post. Wasn't sure you were suggesting they'd have separated you for your hearing disability even without the dog

[Hepburn]

21. I could not go without the service dog...

...so IMO it is a discrimination of something I must have in order to be a part of society...and I am not referring to being segregated from others in order to have the rights to something others without disabilities can have.

[ScreamingMeemie]

23. But, would it be discriminating against someone with severe allergies to seat them

next to someone with a dog? That's the question.

I think the problem here lies in the language the idiotic manager used.

[pnwmom]

176. The person with expressed dog allergies wouldn't be forced to sit near the dog.

This person with the service dog was forced to sit in special area.

[leftstreet]

28. Correct. The ADA is very specific

It overrides local health dept rules

[Decaffeinated]

245. Is overriding health regulations a good thing?

Probably not in all cases...

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

253. But maybe in in all cases?

interesting.

[ScreamingMeemie]

18. It might be a guard against those with allergies, Hepburn.

The manager was wrong, wrong, WRONG to use the words he did, but I can see having a separate area for those with dogs to take into consideration all disabilities.

[jtuck004]

106. Can I have separate seating to guard against nasty little children with infectious germs, and

their stinking parents? Maybe everyone should wear masks lest we all catch something from each other...and while we are at it, surely there are some other segregationist tactics we should employ.

Frankly, all those other people pose a much greater threat than a zoonotic disease from a dog, or a sneeze from allergens that fly through the air with or without a dog.

These assholes are only able to do what they do because other people make excuses for them.

[OmahaBlueDog]

113. If you'd stop bringing your dog to the restaurant, you'd stop attracting children

Dogs are child magnets.

Their parents - I can't help you.

It's not an excuse. Dogs, feathers, horses, cats -- all trigger an allergic reaction. I took shots for six years. Nevertheless, I was not able to replace our cats when they passed on.

[jtuck004]

115. I don't bring a dog. n/t

[cui bono]

188. Well maybe you should so you can keep the children away!

[jtuck004]

199. And whlie we are at it, put that rolling fire hazard in a wheel chair in the back of the bus,

er, room. Stupid people gonna slow down all those who deserve to get out alive. And that idiot with the crutches needs to leave them outside or just not come in at all.

(if I need a sarcasm thingy here it's the reader's problem, not mine)

I wonder if maybe there was a reason they passed the American's with Disabilities Act?

Btw, folks, if one has children they should have the intelligence and education (I know, not required for insemination or pregnancy) to teach them to stay away from service animals. They aren't welcome. The dogs are there to work, not be babysitters for people's annoying and sometimes unwanted rug rats.

And that ain't sarcasm.

[geardaddy]

116. Agree.

And what about people who are allergic to perfume or aftershave.

[uppityperson]

153. I am allergic to bigoted people

I'd like them seated in their own little corner.

[formercia]

227. Me too

Assholes make my Blood Pressure go up.

[Gormy Cuss]

135. While that sounds like a reasonable explanation, it's not in terms of ADA public accommodation.

Last edited Sun Oct 13, 2013, 08:26 PM - Edit history (1)

Check here, for one:
http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

Other ADA FAQs provide even more info on the subject.

[MADem]

194. The link says everyone must be accommodated.

Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals. When a person who is allergic to dog dander and a person who uses a service animal must spend time in the same room or facility, for example, in a school classroom or at a homeless shelter, they both should be accommodated by assigning them, if possible, to different locations within the room or different rooms in the facility.


http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

[Gormy Cuss]

219. Read further down the page at your link. n/t

[MADem]

234. I read the whole thing. NT

[fasttense]

213. Your link is very clear about isolating the handicapped with service animals

People with disabilities who use service animals cannot be isolated from other patrons.

[Mimosa]

267. PLUS, might separation protect the helper dogs from harrassment?

I've sometimes noticed toddlers to 6 or 7 year olds try to 'play with' service dogs.

I think in such cases being separated from kiddies can be a good idea. In fact, in general, I'd prefer to be separated from kiddies. Or ladies having bridal shower parties! NOISY!

[jberryhill]

27. I've never heard of people being allergic to crutches

[Hepburn]

44. Have you ever seen someone being afraid of a person who looks different?

I have seen that with stroke victims, etc.

Soooooooo....where does the segregation end???

[quakerboy]

259. Being afraid and being allergic are two very different things

I am afraid of heights.
I am allergic to cats, among other things.

If you blindfold me and take me to the edge of the grand canyon, I wont be afraid. Or at least, not based on the fear of heights.
If you blindfold me and put me in a room with cats, I will spend the rest of the day with a massive headache.

There is a big difference between these things.

Does that mean service animals should be excluded or isolated? Not in my opinion. Definitely not based on fear, and especially not based on someone being "offended", as stated in your OP.

But its a false equivalency to compare squeamish people to people with physical allergy symptoms. I know people who are far more allergic to dogs than I am, where going to a home with a dog can cause them a lot of suffering and in some cases leave them nearly incapacitated for some length of time. If a restaurant were to run into those two instances at the same time, you have two different competing disabilities, and a tough spot for the establishment in question.


As a total non sequiter, I was reading a FAQ about service animals a while back, and being a bit of a skimmer, I skipped down a bit to a bullet pointed list that started
*lion
*elk
I was momentarily thrown, contemplating the idea of trying to have a lion or elk as a service animal, until I realized it was a LionS and ElkS, in a list of organizations that might provide assistance.

[efhmc]

95. Most of the time, I never notice the dog but when I do and forget and start to pet I

get into trouble. My natural inclination but I usually remember just in time. The service dogs are a blessing. Sorry you and the dog were treated badly.

[whopis01]

174. That's just a matter of wording

His disability requires him to have service dog. They segregate people who have service dogs. Therefore they segregate him.

If the restaurant allowed dogs (service or otherwise) in part of the restaurant and not another, I might buy into the "they were targeting the dog" argument. But from what was posted that doesn't appear to be the case.

[MADem]

8. The assistant manager was an idiot. Find out who his/her boss is, and complain.

I would find out if this is a restaurant policy or a "stupid assistant manager" policy. I suspect it's the latter.

There are ways to accommodate everyone--people who need service dogs and people who fear/are allergic to dogs (and these are also 'disabilities' though they don't rise to 'ADA' level) --without saying stupid crap like that.

Smart restaurants accommodate people with pets, even without the "service" tag. This is very common in Europe (to the point where servers will bring bowls of water to dogs and serve them off the menu)--and in some odd corners of USA, but it would be great if it were more common here.

[ScreamingMeemie]

13. Agreed. Well said.

He used an extremely poor choice of words.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Two things you can do

Talk to a lawyer, they love these cases.

If you chose not to, talk to County. Yes it breaks both State and Federal ADA statue

[ScreamingMeemie]

11. Any manager who uses "offended" and "segregated" should be fired on the spot...

However, we do have restaurants that offer separate seating for those with service dogs, taking into consideration that people do have allergies...severe allergies. But that doesn't make them "offended." What a buffoon. There should be room for all, regardless of disability.

[mbperrin]

137. Wonder why people with allergies aren't asked to sit separately?

After all, they are the ones who can't abide natural living.

[pipi_k]

150. And if they were...

someone would likely be in here complaining about how they had been discriminated against.

[DeadLetterOffice]

222. As a horrifically allergic person...

... if there was an allergy-sensitive seating area, where no one could wear perfume or have purse puppies, I would TOTALLY take a table there.

But it would be by choice, and not because someone was offended by my allergy status.

[mbperrin]

243. That's precisely what I suggest - by choice.

Folks with severe allergies know they have them, but it's invisible to the rest of us.

I think what you just said is nothing but common sense. Thanks.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

12. Sounds like reasonable accommodations were made

Not sure this comes under a heading of discrimination.

[Hepburn]

16. Under both Cal State and Fed law...

...a clear violation.

What the law says is that others who complain are given the option of moving...but the disabled patron cannot be moved or segregated due to his/her disability.

[jberryhill]

22. But the issue is not the disability

And if a patron has a dog allergy, who has to move?

[intaglio]

39. Then the restaurant says that

and does not just declare that maybe some other customers are disturbed by dogs. In any event how do they know if a particular customer has a particular allergy? Do they expect them to wear signs?

[tritsofme]

72. Isn't that exactly the point?

They have no way of knowing ahead of time who has allergy, so the remedy is to keep dogs away from the rest of the facility.

[intaglio]

193. So no-one weating scent is allowed

because there are many people allergic to scent and the chemicals associated with personal hygiene products. People who own cats are not allowed because there are far more people who have allergies triggered by the slightest hint of cat fur and dander.

Note also that the Spires Restaurant did not mention allergy only that some customers would be "offended". Would Spires react in the same way if people are offended by trisomy 21 (Downs) sufferers or when KKK members are offended by blacks being allowed in?

It is prejudice pure and simple.

[BodieTown]

87. The patron with the allergy, of course.

And that includes patrons with allergies to cologne, wool, the odor of bacon from the kitchen, germs, sunlight, and a billion other things.

This allergy excuse is lame.

[MattBaggins]

119. Pfft cologne

Cologne people should be put in special rooms for an hour where small amounts of tear gas are periodically pumped in. See if they still have the same feelings about "mah freedums",

[mbperrin]

138. No shit. Whatever musky crap people are slathering themselves with now

literally makes me taste it on my tongue when they pass by.

And that's with my mouth closed.

Hard to believe they pay money for that stink, but they do.

[MattBaggins]

140. The labels must read

Open bottle and drizzle copiously over entire body and all clothing.

[AngryOldDem]

206. I'm beginning to think that's the case.

I work with a woman who must literally bathe in perfume. The smell pervades the office. You can tell when she arrives because of the cloud of stink that wafts over the office. I have gotten headaches from whatever it is she's wearing, and I'm thinking about saying something to my boss (as if that will do any good, but that's another story for another day).

And the thing is, a few months ago someone with allergies DID complain about her, and she was told to take it easy with the cologne (she told me this herself). So much for that.

Personally, I'd rather have Hepburn's dog coming to the office everyday than this rank crap that's literally making me sick.

[pipi_k]

152. OK, here's the thing...

when you go into a restaurant, it's reasonable to expect to smell bacon, other peoples' perfume, and some other things.

It's not the usual thing to expect to see a dog, so someone with a dog allergy would be blindsided.

I personally have NEVER seen a service dog in a restaurant. It's not something I would normally think about, although if I did see one, I wouldn't care.

[Mariana]

197. Most restaurants I've been to

have had a sign at the entrance that reads something like, Shirt and shoes required. No pets. Service animals permitted by law.

The laws protecting disabled people who rely on service animals have been in place for a long time, so no one should be blown away when a person comes into a restaurant with one. That said, it is pretty uncommon to see them there. I've worked in restaurants for about five years and I remember seeing customers with service dogs only a couple or three times.

[Rhythm]

207. I see them all the time, and i don't live in a large city

I live in a college town in West Virginia, and am accustomed to encountering service-animals in all sorts of everyday settings: in restaurants, at the mall, on the bus, etc...

As dogs are being trained for more than just 'seeing-eye' service tasks -- such as epilepsy-alert, PTSD assistance, etc... people need to get used to the idea that the world no longer belongs to just the upright-and-two-footed.

[anneboleyn]

192. Yes. Service dogs are protected under the law so the OP

might pose a question to the local ACLU or disability representative group. Years ago I worked in restaurants in Cali and we NEVER placed service dogs and disabled customers in "segregated" areas.

[intaglio]

24. So should deaf people and blind people sit at the back of the bus?

What of epileptics?

Perhaps the restaurant's next suggestion will be that those with disfigurements should be segregated because other customers might be disturbed.

[Buddha_of_Wisdom]

17. Inform them of the Americans with Disabilities Act

does not allow for discrimination against the disabled because they have a service dog.

Talk to a lawyer - you just might have a case here.

[liberalhistorian]

96. The ADA also applies equally to

those with allergies and asthma. Their disabilities are equally important and deserving of equal consideration.

[jberryhill]

19. Were you refused seating and/or service?

Arguably, having a separate seating area is an accommodation.

They might even have a ramp for patrons in wheelchairs, but that is not discriminating against them by making them not use stairs.

What do you say to the patrons with dog allergies?

[ScreamingMeemie]

29. Thank you.

While I believe the manager is an idiot for his choice of words, I also know people with severe dog allergies. You can't discriminate against one to accommodate another.

[Hepburn]

30. I have allergies -- severe ones -- to certain foods and perfumes.

I just ask that a restaurant not put certain things on my food.

If I was allergic to someone's perfume, I quietly explain to my waiter or waitress and have never had a problem being move.

No...ramps are accommodations and required by law...so are service dogs and access to all public areas -- a requirement in both Cal and Fed law. Only place a service dog may NOT go is where there is actual food preparation. Also the law states what a restaurant or public place must do if another patron complains about the service dog -- tell them that by law the dog must be given access. PERIOD. If the complainer can be moved, that is the ONLY solution which is allowed.

[jberryhill]

35. So someone disabled by an allergy has to move?

You mention a wheelchair ramp. Is that not a "segregated" entrance for patrons in wheelchairs?

I don't personally have a problem with dogs in restaurants. But providing an area for diners with dogs strikes me as an accommodation every bit as much as a wheelchair ramp or an accessible restroom.

[ScreamingMeemie]

43. Apparently some disabilities are more important than others...

The manager's a jerk for the words he used, but Hepburn appears not to be able to see that all disabilities should be treated equally.

[MattBaggins]

124. They do

However the complainer has to be offered alternative seating,

How is this hard? I am an allergy sufferer and realize I have to move. I hate the idiots with all the cologne and other than the work place I realize I have to move, not them.

[NYC_SKP]

56. A person with a service dog should be able to sit wherever they please.

And then, once seated, IF there is a person nearby with an allergy to dogs, THEN a civil conversation can be had between staff and patrons.

Special sections should only be used as a last resort, not as a preventative measure.

Seems pretty simple.

[liberalhistorian]

83. Why should the person with an allergy

have to be the one to automatically move? Their disability and comfort is, and should be, just as important as those who use service dogs to assist with their disability. My husband is allergic to both cats and dogs and I've seen firsthand just how debilitating and discomfiting such allergies are and can be.

And before anyone jumps on my case, I also have a hearing impairment and wear hearing aids (although I don't use a service dog) and I have friends who must use service dogs for their disabilities. And I agree that this manager was an idiot for his choice of words and his manner; fortunately, I rarely encounter that kind of attitude in most public establishments anymore when out and about with friends with service dogs, most places are very accomodating. It didn't used to be that way; I was in my mid-twenties when the ADA was first signed and began to be enacted and I well remember how resentful and resistant the vast majority of places were at first.

[Hepburn]

102. If someone has an allergy...then of course reasonable accommodations should be made.

But...segregating certain persons "just in case" is not a reasonable accommodation. JMHO

I have absolutely NO problem in moving with my service dog to accommodate a person with an allergy who is in discomfort or may become discomforted...but to be told that I am offensive to other patrons because of my dog? That is not acceptable on any level. The reason for the unacceptability was clearly spelled out: Dogs are filthy and do not belong in restaurants. That conversation took place with the idiot head manager the first time my dog and I went to that Spires...apparently the idiot has not learned what the ADA rules are and that they are strictly enforced.

[suffragette]

109. Because preemptively segregating someone based on their disability is discriminatory

It would be the same if they had a separate section designated for people with allergies that is the only section you could sit in. NYC Skip noted the law and the correct process. That the preemptive segregation is illegal and that adjustments, such as providing your husband's request to sit elsewhere if he identified that it would be an issue for him to be seated near the dog due to allergies, would then be made as needed.

[MattBaggins]

127. Because it makes more sense to move a person with allergies

As such a person I actually seek out an area near an HVAC outlet, so that I can be in what is at least, a slightly positive pressurized area, hopefully blowing crap away from me.

[NYC_SKP]

178. They shouldn't. It is not legal for either to have preference. The law says to accommodate both.

To give preference to one over another, especially preemptively, is the precise problem.

Common sense and common courtesy would make this very workable.

Whomever arrives first is simply seated where they want. However, if one is already seated and happens to be allergic to dogs then as awkward as it may be they should say something immediately to staff that the seating of the person with the animal is going to be a problem and could they please be asked to sit elsewhere.

Reciprocally, if the person with the service animal is already seated, then the allergic person should ask not to be seated near them.

In all but the most crowded situations, this "first come" rule should be workable, but the law states clearly that both must be accommodated.

[kcr]

181. You have it exactly right, NYC SKIP

"Whomever arrives first is simply seated where they want." To think that accommodation should mean segregation of a certain group is appalling to me. That should never be acceptable.

[suffragette]

182. Well said and precisely so, NYC SKP

[Vattel]

147. exactly right

[kestrel91316]

63. An allergy to something you can generally avoid and might yet occasionally

encounter is not a disability per se. Not all medical conditions constitute disabilities.

But I suspect you knew that.

If I have acute gastroenteritis that causes me to have explosive diarrhea, it isn't any restaurant's duty to bring a potty chair to my table, for instance. Because that is NOT a disability.

[ScreamingMeemie]

79. Asthma and severe allergies are considered a disability under the ADA, kes.

http://www.aafa.org/display.cfm?id=9&sub=19&cont=255

snip-

Yes. In both the ADA and Section 504, a person with a disability is described as someone who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities, or is regarded as having such impairments. Breathing, eating, working and going to school are "major life activities." Asthma and allergies are still considered disabilities under the ADA, even if symptoms are controlled by medication.

The ADA can help people with asthma and allergies obtain safer, healthier environments where they work, shop, eat and go to school. The ADA also affects employment policies. For example, a private preschool can not refuse to enroll children because giving medication to or adapting snacks for students with allergies requires special staff training or because insurance rates might go up. A firm can not refuse to hire an otherwise qualified person solely because of the potential time or insurance needs of a family member.

-snip


-------------------------------------------

I have two family members with life-threatening allergies (my father and a cousin). We inadvertently sent my cousin to the hospital for 2 weeks when he was a kid because the house we purchased had been inhabited by dogs.

[kestrel91316]

88. People with asthma simply have to accept that allergens exist in the world,

and they can't expect everyone else to accommodate every conceivable allergy. If there is a service dog in the restaurant, they can ask to not be seated near it. If a service dog comes in while they are there, they can ask that it not be seated right next to them.

They have no right to demand a special "service dog ghetto" at all times, just in case they might want to visit a particular restaurant.

You need to familiarize yourself with the ADA. Hepburn has cited the specific text of the law that prohibits "service dog ghettos".

[ScreamingMeemie]

92. Both need to be accommodated under the ADA.

No one is saying that there should be a "service dog ghetto."

What happened here is that, instead of seating Hepburn and Hepburn's dog...the management used horrendous wording. End of story.

[Hepburn]

110. I have and when this problem arose in the past with the same Spires, I went to the home office and..

...gave them all the rules. Federal and state and the state laws included the penal code on interference with a service dog and denying service, etc. It is considered a crime in California to do so.

It appears that the manager feels that having a "service dog ghetto" is allowed. And it's OK to discriminate against the handicapped in favor of other patrons.

This time, I can guarantee, I will not be so nice about it and treat it as a learning experience for those who feel free to discriminate. Those days are OVER!

[Hepburn]

93. I have the same response to cats...and cat owners.

Cat dander -- and I have severe asthma. My neighbor has cat allergies worst than mine. Either of us come near someone who owns a cat and we both become very, very ill

So.......should cat owners be segregated? Just asking...

[MattBaggins]

122. Yes

Just as people who have near death experiences to the assholes with a half gallon of Old Spice doused on their clothes have to move.

[LanternWaste]

221. It is indeed, separate yet equal.

It is indeed, separate yet equal. And many will rationalize it by providing a distinction without a difference.

[efhmc]

99. Maybe they should have a separate area. Or put up warning signs like many places do about

possible peanut exposure.

[Cooley Hurd]

20. Start with giving god-awful reviews:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g33182-d538768-Reviews-Spires_Restaurant-Torrance_California.html

http://www.yelp.com/biz/spires-restaurant-torrance

F them!

[State the Obvious]

25. Others need to know...

Have you considered writing a letter to the Daily Breeze (local paper)? I live nearby, and can empathize with you.

[Hepburn]

34. Yes...

...but have left a message from one of my lawyer buddies and think that will have a bigger impact with Sprires than anything in the Daily Breeze.

[OmahaBlueDog]

26. Some of us are allergic to dogs

Others are terrified of dogs.

I see your point, but I think asking you to be in a dogs-allowed portion of the restaurant isn't unreasonable.

JMHO. YMMV.

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. +1

[Hepburn]

32. How about a wheelchair only section of the restaurant...???

Where does the segregation end???

[ScreamingMeemie]

36. Are people severely allergic to wheelchairs? To the point where they end up hospitalized?

That's where it ends.

While I agree that the manager was HORRIBLE to you with his word choice, I can see having a separate area for dogs (service or pet) to accommodate BOTH disabilities.

The problem lies in how the manager spoke to you. Not the policy.

[Hepburn]

40. The policy violates the ADA as well as Calif law...

...how does that work with your suggestion that the policy is OK?

[ScreamingMeemie]

45. The policy would violate the ADA if you were not allowed to eat in the restaurant

with your dog.

People with severe allergies have just as much a right to be accommodated without query as you do, Hepburn. That said, I'm sorry the manager was an ass to you. But, my cousin can't eat next to your dog. He'd wind up in the hospital. Separating (not segregating) service dogs for allergies (not offense) is not violating the ADA. If it is, it needs to be changed. All disabilities need to be treated equally.

[Hepburn]

52. No..........any SEGREGATION of anyone disabled is against the law. PERIOD.

Asking to move is NOT a segregation. Having a "policy" which segregates the disabled IS discrimination.

[ScreamingMeemie]

54. Here you go...

http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

When a person who is allergic to dog dander and a person who uses a service animal must spend time in the same room or facility, for example, in a school classroom or at a homeless shelter, they both should be accommodated by assigning them, if possible, to different locations within the room or different rooms in the facility.

[Hepburn]

59. Hint word "BOTH"...not just the one with the service animal is to be segregated.

Thank you for making my point.

[ScreamingMeemie]

76. It also means not just the one with the allergy should be segregated.

Separate (not segregated). Thank you for acknowledging mine.

Again, that manager should be fired for his word choice.

[Hepburn]

80. You really don't get it, do you?

I cannot avoid my hearing loss...so don't try and tell me it's OK to segregate me to the "back of the restaurant" because someone has better rights than I do.

THAT IS DISCRIMINATION AND IT IS NOT ONLY WRONG, BUT AGAINST THE LAW. SPECIFICALLY AGAINST THE LAW RE SERVICE DOGS.

[OmahaBlueDog]

86. Some of us get asthma because of your dog.

I'm sorry you can't hear. Truly.

However, I really feel I have a right to breathe.

[liberalhistorian]

101. I wouldn't bother trying to explain

it to Hepburn anymore, only his or her disability truly counts in his or her thinking and universe. I'm hearing impaired and my husband has allergies and I consider his disabilty to be as important as mine, and worthy of just as much consideration. I've seen how he can't breathe when exposed to cats and dogs and it isn't pretty at all, in fact, it's downright frightening. But I guess to Hepburn it doesn't really matter because it's not his or her disability.

[OmahaBlueDog]

108. As my grandma would say "It all depends on whose ox is gored."

..and I reckon we'll all just have to agree to disagree here.

[OmahaBlueDog]

75. Thanks!

I'm not against service animals -- honest to God. It's just that asthmatics and other allergy sufferers have rights as well.

[MattBaggins]

132. You are misinterpreting that

ALWAYS putting someone with a dog in a segregated area is segregation. Your reading is for specific points when both parties are known to be present. You MUST treat them as specific cases, not just a blanket segregation of those with dogs.

[Gormy Cuss]

142. That's a reference to living or work arrangements where both parties have a chronic issue.

A restaurant is treated differently.

[MattBaggins]

131. Yes it is,

[OmahaBlueDog]

74. So the right to have a service dog trumps the right of someone not to have an asthma attack?

I'd say the segregation is a "reasonable accommodation" to those with respiratory difficulties brought on by animal dander and/or saliva.

[MattBaggins]

136. No it is not reasonable to segregate them

It is reasonable to seat them and if someone complains of allergies move both parties to different areas as needed.

[pipi_k]

170. So what if

someone with dog hair/dander allergies comes in after the dog has left the building, and sits at the same table where the dog was lying on the floor which probably wouldn't have been vacuumed?

It could be a kid, playing around on the floor. Maybe the kid drops a piece of food, and, unbeknownst to his parents, picks it up and eats it, ingesting some of that dog hair.

Maybe gets mildly ill, or even requires a visit to an ER?

What then?

[kcr]

184. They can ask if anyone with a service dog has sat at that table since it was cleaned.

If their allergies are that severe. Ask to be seated at table that hasn't had a service dog patron seated there that day. It's called reasonable accommodation. It isn't reasonable to insist that an entire group of people be segregated to accommodate you.

[jberryhill]

38. There are wheelchair spots in stadiums, theaters, airplanes and trains

Persons in wheelchairs ARE provided with designated spots in a lot of public accommodations.

Many stadiums have seating spots with no seat in them, and those are the designated spots for patrons in wheelchairs.

Likewise, on my local transit system, there are designated wheelchair spots.

[liberalhistorian]

94. How about you try being more

understanding of those with disabilities, such as allergies and asthma; as understanding as you demand others must be of your own disability (and I wear hearing aids myself, although I don't use a service dog, so I do know what you deal with a lot of the time)? Or is it only YOUR disability that truly counts and should be considered?

[kestrel91316]

66. Yes it is. Allergy to something you might occasionally encounter or

fear of something one can reasonably expect to encounter out in the world is not a lifelong "disability".

I am severely allergic to insect bites and deathly allergic to certain medications. I am in NO WAY disabled. I don't require others to live their lives around my minor medical issues.

[OmahaBlueDog]

82. They segregate peanut allergy sufferers in my kid's school, and have nut free zones.

Nut products are something that "one can reasonably expect to encounter out in the world." The fact that some persons can have severe or even deadly allergic reactions to these products makes these precautions necessary.

It is not reasonable to force asthmatics with animal dander and/or saliva allergies to be subjected to furry animals -- no matter how well intentioned their presence is.

..and if you are severely allergic to insect bites and deathly allergic to certain medications, you do not have a minor medical issue. You may think of it that way, but the reality is that you should speak to a doctor (if you have not already) and carry an Epi pen and wear a Medic-Alert bracelet. I say this because my doctor has told me to do both of these things (and I'm a hypocrite because I've ignored his advice).

[kestrel91316]

91. A school is not a restaurant, in case you were having trouble with that concept.

[OmahaBlueDog]

104. I have no problem with the concept

There is no need to be patronizing

Both are places where food is prepared and where people eat.

Also, at my local HS, there is a service dog in use. Signs on the door alert people to this fact.

As states above:

http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals. When a person who is allergic to dog dander and a person who uses a service animal must spend time in the same room or facility, for example, in a school classroom or at a homeless shelter, they both should be accommodated by assigning them, if possible, to different locations within the room or different rooms in the facility.

I'm not saying that the OP shouldn't have been seated. I'm only saying that I don't think it's unreasonable to seat them in an area where others bring dogs (either service dogs, or those little poodles that get carried in purses).

[kestrel91316]

97. I don't get anaphylaxis from my allergies.

I get weird delayed type hypersensitivity issues that cause tissue damage and land me in the ER after a week or so, lol. Epi-pens are pointless.

I don't expect restaurants to rip out any flowers in their landscaping just because of my bizarre hypersensitivity reaction to bee stings, for instance.

I DO expect physicians and pharmacists to pay attention to my medication allergies.

[OmahaBlueDog]

100. I do get, on rare occasions, anaphylaxis from my allergies

And, strange as this may sound, I'm fond of dogs

I just can't be around them for extended periods in enclosed spaces.

[alphafemale]

33. I think offended was the wrong word to use.

Last edited Sun Oct 13, 2013, 06:25 PM - Edit history (1)

people are allergic. People are phobic. There would have to be a separate area for the two groups. Do you designate the allergic/phobic or the service dogs to a "special" area?

[Hepburn]

37. So.........all disabled people are segreated instead???

That works for you???

Where does it stop??? What if someone is afraid of wheelchairs...they get segregated, too???

[ScreamingMeemie]

47. So just those that are severely allergic to dogs should be segregated. Gotcha.

[Hepburn]

49. No...NO ONE should be segregated because of ANY disability.

Reasonable accommodations such as moving a person with an allergy or phobia is a much better solution.

Duh...that is the entire point of the ADA.

[ScreamingMeemie]

53. That's rather rude, Hepburn.

As I said, the manager was an idiot for the way he spoke to you.

That said, keeping separate (not segregated) areas for those with allergies and those with service animals is not unreasonable. It heads off the possibility of what happened to you.

http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

[NYC_SKP]

62. Your very own link proves you wrong, I'm afraid:

Inquiries, Exclusions, Charges, and Other Specific Rules Related to Service Animals

snip:

Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals. When a person who is allergic to dog dander and a person who uses a service animal must spend time in the same room or facility, for example, in a school classroom or at a homeless shelter, they both should be accommodated by assigning them, if possible, to different locations within the room or different rooms in the facility.

A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the dog is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it or (2) the dog is not housebroken. When there is a legitimate reason to ask that a service animal be removed, staff must offer the person with the disability the opportunity to obtain goods or services without the animal’s presence.

Establishments that sell or prepare food must allow service animals in public areas even if state or local health codes prohibit animals on the premises.

People with disabilities who use service animals cannot be isolated from other patrons, treated less favorably than other patrons, or charged fees that are not charged to other patrons without animals. In addition, if a business requires a deposit or fee to be paid by patrons with pets, it must waive the charge for service animals.

"They should both be accommodated". This restaurant discriminated against one party and showed deference to a different, imaginary, party as a matter of convenience.

What they should do is allow open seating and address any complaints as they arise.

[Live and Learn]

98. +1 nt

[tblue37]

244. The fact that the manager tried to

*preemptively* segregate her, NOT because someone already in the restaurant asked her to be seated elsewhere because the other person had a severe dog allergy, but because there MIGHT be someone like that in the restaurant at that moment or during the time she was there. That is why it violates the ADA.

If someone did ask to not be exposed to her dog because of allergies, the manager could then POLITELY, and DISCREETLY explain the situation and ask her to sit at a distance from the other person. I bet that if the manager had done that, Hepburn would have cheerfully agreed. But she has had experience before with this restaurant, and they have given her trouble in the past about her service dog, so when they tried to preemptively segregate her, and to do so in a way guaranteed to embarrass her in front of other customers, she naturally felt offended.

[liberalhistorian]

105. Why the hell should my husband with allergies

have to automatically be the one to move? You DO realize that people can actually DIE from allergy and asthma attacks, including ones caused by animals, don't you? I've seen my husband's allergic reactions to dogs and cats and how he cannot breathe and it's very frightening just for me, let alone him. Apparently, you don't consider that nearly as important as your own disability (which I happen to share). For your information, the ADA applies EQUALLY to those like my husband, with allergies and asthma. You are not any more important than he is, to the ADA.

[Gormy Cuss]

145. He doesn't have to move. He does have to notify restaurant staff of his need for accommodation

when he arrives and it's up to them to find an appropriate table AND not to seat someone with a service dog near him after he's been seated.

What they can't do is assign a corner for people with service animals or for people with dander allergies.

[suffragette]

166. Great info, Gormy

Really thoughtful and appropriate response.

[Hepburn]

171. Bingo!

Exactly and this is what I have been trying to express. Some people seem to think I want BETTER treatment. I just want EQUAL treatment. There are no segregated sections for others with disabilities where they HAVE to sit...so why should there be one for those with a service dog? If there is a problem...deal with it EQUALLY and accommodate both parties. Do not do it by discriminating against one handicap over others before the fact.

[snooper2]

230. They could just give protective suits to wear--

Then everyone could sit next to everyone else

[joeglow3]

224. What happens when 3 people with service animals visit in one day?

You realize the pet dander will be in that spot of the restaurant for at least the rest of the day? If 2 more people come, is it segretation to automatically place them where the previous dog was? Does this not potentially render the entire restaurant deadly for someone with an allergy?

[Hepburn]

163. Wow...

...and from my fav prez, too.

If you would have read, you would have seen that I have said several times in this thread that if there was an allergy problem, I would have had NO problem moving.

How would YOU like it if the restaurant automatically put anyone with an allergy in a separate area and not allow them anywhere else in the restaurant. We were suppose to sit by the door that went to the garbage dumb. Does that work for you?

[kcr]

189. Some of the responses to you in this thread really have me shaking my head.

They would be outraged if people demanded they be segregated, of course. But they seem to have no problem thinking that's okay for you. Shameful.

[TorchTheWitch]

200. exactly what I was thinking

Good grief it's disgusting.

[robinlynne]

50. A lot fo people are really afraid of dogs. A lot of people find them dirty. A lot of people love

dogs. I'm a dog/animal person, but I can respect those who are horrified. it is not an offense against me or my dog.
it is sad for them. Since dogs are normally not allowed in restaurants, you can see where the mindset comes from. We're not allowed on the beach either.

[Enthusiast]

103. Some consider dogs to be "unclean" in a religious sense.

What an impoverished life they must lead, free of dogs.

[MattBaggins]

139. Those who are phobic?

Absolutely they should be the ones to move.

Those with allergies should be considered as they happen.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

249. Because mental health issues aren't real?

[MattBaggins]

256. Nice try

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

260. Same to you.

[elleng]

41. Offended by having a DOG in a restaurant???

Obviously never been to Europe!
IDIOTS!

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

254. I've been to Europe and I found all the damn dogs annoying.

Very rude to call people IDIOTS just because they don't share your enthusiasm for hairy, slobbery beasts.

[elleng]

257. Was responding to OP,

which says 'other patrons are offended,' and I consider this to be idiocy. 'Annoyed' is not the same thing, you're entitled to it.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

262. Wanting to have your dog in the restaurant with you does not mean you are entitled to that either.

The dogs in European restaurants are beside the point of the OP and her rights under ADA, so your message was muddled.

[suffragette]

42. This is against the law

This is from a page with guidance about the ADA and service animals for places of business.
http://www.ada.gov/qasrvc.htm


4. Q: What must I do when an individual with a service animal comes to my business?

A: The service animal must be permitted to accompany the individual with a disability to all areas of the facility where customers are normally allowed to go. An individual with a service animal may not be segregated from other customers.

Edited to add:

http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

People with disabilities who use service animals cannot be isolated from other patrons, treated less favorably than other patrons, or charged fees that are not charged to other patrons without animals. In addition, if a business requires a deposit or fee to be paid by patrons with pets, it must waive the charge for service animals.




If you want to pursue this, here's info on filing a complaint.

http://www.adapacific.org/ada/info/fileTitleIIIComplaint.php

It's terrible that you encountered this.

[Hepburn]

48. Hug back...

...I was so embarrassed...I went to the car and cried. It's bad enough to be cut out of most of anything audio and/or verbal going on around oneself, but to be told that the assistance device -- a service dog -- is offensive and so offensive that you MUST be segregated because others have more rights...I felt like I had been gut punched.

I was humiliated. Embarrassed. And wishing I was "normal" so I could just go outside my home without trouble or without being looked upon differently.

[suffragette]

61. What they did was wrong

They singled you out and discriminated against you based on your disability. And the ADA is, above all, a civil rights law.

It's horrible to be made to feel the way they made you feel.

Another big hug to you and you Scottie

Do consider calling the Pacific ADA Center or the local Office of Civil Rights, if for no other reason than so they can educate that owner so no one else has to go through this.

The link I already posted has the Pacific ADA Center contact info.

Here's the OCR contact info for different regions:
http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/office/about/rgn-hqaddresses.html

[Hepburn]

70. Thank you for the info...

...this is not the first time I have had trouble with Spires. One manager asked what my disability was -- against the law to do that -- and I said the dog is an "alert dog." Then he looked at me and made a guess I was hearing impaired and said that he thought I could hear just fine and that I did not need the dog. I guess this idiot had never hear of lip reading.

I am going to do something about it this time. First time, the owner of Spires was apologetic and told me that I would not have any further problems and was mortified at what happened.

SSDD -- I guess this manager simply is a total idiot with his "new" policy of segregating the handicapped.

[suffragette]

89. You are correct. They can not ask you that.

And they clearly need the law read to them by an authority so that they don't keep trying to sidestep what they think the law is.
And so no one else has to go through this.

[aikoaiko]

46. I'm sorry for your experience.

You made me think about something.

I teach at the college-level and several of our students have disorders that require the reasonable accommodation of more time for the test. Typically there are sent to the Disability Services office where they take the exam with a proctor. I've never questioned that option as segregating before.

[kestrel91316]

73. If someone needs extra time to complete a college exam, they will likely find themselves

in a room with an unrelated lecture going on and active conversation on an unrelated topic.

Having a specific location where a proctor is available for all manner of course exams and no lectures moving into the space to interrupt the student taking extra time on the exam is the ONLY appropriate way to accommodate students needing more time.

Telling the students and teacher of the next class in that room that they simply have to stay out until the student needing more time is done is not reasonable.

[NYC_SKP]

51. K/R. Don't let 'em get you down, Hepburn.

People in this thread are setting up all manner of scenarios that don't even apply to your situation at Spires.

It looks to me like they expressed, both wrongly and in an insulting manner, some "policy" to appease "certain customers" who may or may not have even been there when you were there.

Which is wrong.

In practice, you should have been seated and if there happened to be someone there who is allergic to your breed of dog, they could then and only then request a new seat assignment or the restaurant could ask if you would mind taking a different seat.

But a service dog area just in case someone might be offended is just wrong, clearly.

Take care.

[Hepburn]

55. Thanks...

....

[Cleita]

57. Uh, I think there is one person and a person who is in charge

who objects to a service dog in the restaurant, not the customers. Technically, you were not refused service so I don't know what recourse you have in this case.

[suffragette]

68. Cleita, see post # 42

The segregation was discriminatory.

[Cleita]

121. You are so right and I'm happy to see there is actually recourse. n/t

[Walk away]

58. Around here the biggest problem with having a service dog...

in a restaurant is everyone wanting to come over and talk about him. Most folks know better than to bother the dog but you would be a big star for owning him.

[Hepburn]

60. Most people are pretty cool and ask if they can pet the dog...

...one restaurant sets her a special place and gives her treats to take home. It is rare that she is not loved and admired and basically blessed for the service she does.

She is an excellent dog...extremely well behaved and quiet. Minds every command either verbal or unspoken immediately.

[Walk away]

65. All over Europe even the worst hehaved dogs are guests of honor...

at restaurants and pubs. They should roll out the red carpet for a service dog.

I uses to take my dog Max to brunch at the old Palm Court at the Plaza Hotel. The waiters used to bring him a biscuit and a bowl of fresh water. The snootiest and most spoiled people in NYC never complained and I was basically Max's service person.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

64. Why did this even come up?

Why didn't they just seat you wherever they wanted to seat you like any other restaurant does?

[liberalhistorian]

111. Because there may be people like my husband, who

is allergic to cats and dogs and who can suffer nasty breathing difficulties and bad reactions to them, perhaps? Because the ADA applies equally to him and others with allergies and asthma? Because those with such disabilities are just as important as the OP's?

[NYC_SKP]

118. What they did was wrong. Unless they KNEW that they already had seated a victim of alergies....

But they didn't do that, they expressed a blanket policy that favors allergy sufferers over service dog owners, and such policy is illegal.

They are to accommodate BOTH, one situation at a time.

I'm sure you'll agree that it would be more equitable to only ask them to sit separately after someone complains and not just in case someone comes in or is already there, right?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

198. But that's not what I'm getting at....

If the restaurant has a policy to seat people with service dogs in a certain section, why wouldn't the waitress/waiter just say "Follow me" and seat them where ever it is they seat people with service dogs and not make it like they were being treated differently? Did they see the dog and make the statement as soon as they came in? Did Hepburn object to where they were seated when they were brought there? Was that section so dirty, poorly lit, near a swinging door of the kitchen that it was an insult to be put there? The statement is cut and pasted like it's being retold by a third person, and I'm just curious how the initial interaction started.

Personally, I would have no problem sitting away in my own section. I'm tired of listening to other people's dumbass conversations, talking on their cellphones and general rude behavior. But, that's me and that's not the issue. I see your point about allergies, but I also think that could wait until a customer objects, and if they do object, the person who got there first gets to stay.

[Glassunion]

67. It's touchy. What happens when disabilities overlap?

The assistant's choice of words was wrong and they should be dealt with. However, your disability would cause my disability issues. I'm one of the 40million Americans with asthma. One of my triggers is dogs. So the presence of your service animal, would cause me to have an asthma attack. So who's disability wins? Should I just not eat out? Should you? No... If they make accommodations for both, then I find that ok. I would not be upset by a segregated section that would be free of dogs that I had to sit in.

It's tough and sometimes the ADA works against those it was designed to help. We opened a new location, and the entire site was ADA 2013 compliant. We had a complaint from a gentleman in a wheelchair because he could not get up the curb using the provided ramp up the curb. This was due to all those little bumps of raised pavers that were installed. His chairs wheels would keep turning and he did not have the strength to roll over them. If the ramp were smooth, he would not have a problem. However ADA requires those bumps to allow the blind to feel where the curb ends. So who should be accommodated.

Personally, if they have a separate section for service animals, to me that seems as though they are making an accommodation. How it was worded was just shitty.

[NYC_SKP]

77. Easy. They have to accommodate both.

If they put a section for service animals, then that's showing favoritism to the allergic customers, who might not even be there at that time. That's wrong.

They need to accommodate both without relegating one group or another to some specific section.

Details here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3841711

[Hepburn]

90. Exactly. N/T

[pipi_k]

187. How about

a third section for dog phobic customers as well?

OK, so we've got three sections to accommodate everyone in this situation. Where do we seat them?

Since the OP was complaining about being banished to "service dog ghetto", maybe people with service dogs should be seated right up front.

Except...

Allergic and phobic people might be forced to have to walk past them to get to their own areas.

Actually I saw something really stupid like this from a local restaurant back when they started separating smokers from non smokers.

Non smokers were given their own area....YAY!!!

In the back of the restaurant. Smokers sat in the front. Which meant that non-smokers had to wait in that area to be seated, then walk through clouds of stink to get to the non smoking area. Yeah, I guess if they could hold their breaths long enough, they might escape breathing in the fumes. However, by the time they got to their area, they smelled like they had bathed in a filthy ashtray.

Oh yeah...what a great plan that was...

[Hepburn]

78. I am allergic to perfume...

...soooo....people wearing perfume or after shave get segregated immediately to separate sections, too?

I don't understand you post. My dog is a NECESSITY, not a luxury. If someone has an allergy, I would have moved if they could not move. I understand the need to have certain accommodations made. My mother had COPD and heavy perfume, cigarette smoke (no smoke free areas or prohibitions when she was alive) and heavy scents of after shave shut down her ability to breath.

I have no problem with accommodating anyone with a problem. However, being told I am less valuable than someone with an allergy or a phobia...so I cannot sit where others sit just in case, that is wrong. And it is also against the ADA -- service dog users cannot be segregated from others.

[Mimosa]

266. Hepburn, nobody is allergic to *all ingredients* in a scent

Perfumes are complicated combinations of chemical ingredients, including natural and/or synthesized molecules.

It's a toss up whether certain natural ingredients can cause you to have respiratory reactions. I'm a 'perfumista' expert and there are ingredients in the older classic perfumes (Armani original and Mitsouko, for instance) which caused my usually non-hypoallergenic self to get very congested. Some claim oakmoss in strong concentration is allergenic. As a perfume lover, I still resort to a tab of fexofenadine rather than give up Mitsouko!

I'm also slightly allergic to dog and cat dander, as are quite a few people. Nothing will make me give up my kittehs! Fexofenadine works just fine when dust, pollen and pet hair attack!

[Vashta Nerada]

69. Doesn't the ADA frown upon this?

I'm sorry you received horrible service.

[Hepburn]

84. Big time...and the fines for discrimination are HORRENDOUS!

My understanding as a retired lawyer:

The court will issue an injunction against the establishment and, further, will fine them and award attorneys fees and costs.

I am NOT interested in receiving one single cent from any lawsuit -- all I want is to be able to move around by having reasonable accommodations made for me.

[Vashta Nerada]

172. And I want that for you as well.

[nirvana555]

123. I live right here in Torrance. I think the asst. mngr. broke the law. That was very

Insensitive of her. I ususally go to Norms for breakfast! I'm glad the folks as Denny's were cool. As far as people with dog allergies go, I think that is certainly much, much, less of an issue than barely being able to hear. I think it would be easier for them to go to another table.

[Hepburn]

167. If they are seated and eating and someone asks, I have NO problem of going to another area.

I have allergies...and I understand. It is the blanket policy of isolation and segregation that gets to me. If there is a problem that happens -- then do something, but do not discriminate before the fact.

[Vashta Nerada]

175. Out of curiosity...

is a dog allergy considered a disability under the ADA? To me, that doesn't seem like it would be. If that's the case, then people with dog allergies would have to just deal with it if someone came in to an establishment with a service dog.

[glowing]

71. Not to be horribly rude, bu what happens to the patron with a severe

Allergy and asthma that your service dog could send to the hospital? I work at a hotel and we must maintain a difference in rooms due to extreme allergies if other guests?

Just wondering... Kind of like the peanut allergy that keeps things like that out of a classroom.

[Hepburn]

81. If someone has an extreme allergy...

...all they have to do is say something and I would without hesitation not be seated anywhere near them. That is not the problem here -- my service dog was offensive because it bothered other patrons for aesthetic reasons and not health reasons. And...the segregation was a policy and not dependent on anyone having allergies, etc.

A dislike of animals is NOT a valid reason to deny rights to a handicapped person who MUST USE a service dog.

[glowing]

134. I completely agree.

[jberryhill]

190. Fuck asthmatics, they don't count

Or so I gather

[Mariana]

212. Asthmatics and people with allergies

can inform the restaurant staff about their particular disability when they enter the restaurant, and request that they not be seated near any service dogs. It's not that fucking difficult. People with food allergies somehow manage to inform restaurant workers about their problems, so they can be accommodated appropriately. Are asthmatics and people with dog allergies incapable of doing the same?

[jberryhill]

214. Which is a dumb request if there are no dogs when they arrive

[Mariana]

217. Not really. Someone with a service dog could come in

to the place at any time. One may have been lying on the floor at one of the tables earlier in the day, and left some fur and dander there. If you're truly endangered by the nearby presence of a service dog, or by its residual fur and dander, isn't it better to be safe and make sure you're seated away from either?

[Mimosa]

268. Asthmatics are far more common than people with dogs

People with asthma and allergies are so numerous that it would be impractical for them to announce their allergies/asthma to hosts. people with service dogs are far less numerous.

Btw, people allergic to crustaceans like shrimp, lobster, crawfish can die if they accidently ingest a couple of bites from a dish (soup, dip, whatever) which has shellfish ingredients in it, even in small amount. I once had to rush a frien to the hospital because he ate a couple bites of cream soup (a bisque) which contained some small amount of lobster!

These days those who have shellfish allergies should carry what's called an 'Epi-pen'.

[Emit]

112. According to ADA, "Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing

"...service to people using service animals" and perhaps more important in your case: "People with disabilities who use service animals cannot be isolated from other patrons ..."

Inquiries, Exclusions, Charges, and Other Specific Rules Related to Service Animals

~snip~

* Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals. When a person who is allergic to dog dander and a person who uses a service animal must spend time in the same room or facility, for example, in a school classroom or at a homeless shelter, they both should be accommodated by assigning them, if possible, to different locations within the room or different rooms in the facility.

~snip~

People with disabilities who use service animals cannot be isolated from other patrons, treated less favorably than other patrons, or charged fees that are not charged to other patrons without animals. In addition, if a business requires a deposit or fee to be paid by patrons with pets, it must waive the charge for service animals.

~snip~

http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm


As I understand it, you should have full access to their restaurant as any other patron; and IF someone complains (i.e., a person with an allergy to dogs), then you are both to be accommodated accordingly.


Here is the process of filing an ADA complaint with US DOJ:

http://www.ada.gov/fact_on_complaint.htm



In full disclosure, I am a Vocational Rehabilitation Counselor and while I am not an ADA expert, it is an area in which I have had training, in more specific regards to employment and ADA. I encourage you to confront the management of the restaurant as they likely are not aware of their noncompliance of the ADA laws and they probably think they are offering a 'reasonable accommodation.' In addition, especially if they are not willing to change their flawed policy, you have the option to file a complaint directly with US DOJ as explained at the link above. Education is key in these circumstances.

On a personal note, I'm so sorry this happened; it's very disheartening and disappointing to hear. Good luck, Hepburn, and please keep us posted as to any outcome if you go further with this matter.

[gopiscrap]

117. I am sorry that happened to you

I would file a complaint

[LittleGirl]

120. I've very sorry you were treated that way

And I have to tell you this too. I would not want to sit near you, not because of your hearing loss but because I am undergoing shots for my allergies and one of the multiples allergies I have is to dogs. I was tested in February and I am allergic to over 100 different items. I used to raise dogs and cats but my auto-immune disease has hyper sensitized me to animals and I can't be near them. I am truly sorry that you felt this was discrimination but as one who still has red round sores from the shots I got on Thursday, your dog would make me have to move. I hope you understand my response and know that I would never discriminate against you. Peace.

[greiner3]

125. Possibly a DU'er;

I just checked Yelp for this restaurant and someone has already given a 1 star rating giving the reason as the above article.

WAY TO GO!!!!!!!!

[Rebellious Republican]

126. I am hearing impaired, via the military!

I would not find it offensive to be seated with a service animal in a different section of the restaurant. We all have to respect others wishes. They did let you in? They did not discriminate because of your service animal, they simply respected others that may have a phobia of dogs, or whatever.

[pipi_k]

128. Unfortunate choice of words

by that person, but I would bet that it's not your (or anyone else's) service dog's behavior that would offend someone. Or your disability itself.

Some people really are offended by animals being in close proximity to their food.

Animal fur...dander...

I mean, I do understand your position here. As a dog owner myself...although they're not service dogs, but they are my Fur Kids...I do want them to be accepted, but I can totally understand how someone could either have a fear of dogs, or be disgusted by the thought of maybe finding a dog hair in their food. Or having one be there and unknowingly eat it. Wouldn't bother me...I eat dog hairs all the time.

But it sounds like the restaurant owner is trying to make it as win/win as possible for all concerned.

I mean, really...what if someone else's disability involves a severe phobia of dogs? The person is trying to work through it, manages to get out to his car and to the restaurant without encountering a dog...then walks into the restaurant where he figures he's "safe", and he's faced with...a dog...

What if someone is highly allergic to dog hair/dander?

I think that instead of being outraged about perceived snubs, it might be better to stop and consider that other people have disabilities that are just as valid as our own.

[kcr]

179. Then those people can be asked to be seated elsewhere.

The people who have problems being near the dogs should be the ones to have to move. Not the people who need the dogs. Segregating them is wrong.

[Denninmi]

129. I HATE dining in a restaurant with a service dog ...

... It is so damned HARD to resist the urge to go over and just start petting them, feed them some no no people treats, and generally just fall in love with them. They are supposed to be working, after all.



I hope that restaurant manager gets an ear full and then some.

[obama2terms]

130. What an AWFUL place of business!

I used to work in a restaurant and people weren't allowed to bring in their non-service dogs ( most likely a health dept. regulation) but service dogs were and still are allowed because after all they are a necessity! I'm so sorry that happened to you, shame on them!

[cbayer]

133. I have a question about this.

I just did some reading on Hearing Dogs because I didn't know a lot about them.

What I read was that they are particularly useful in the home where there might be noises that indicate danger or that something needs attention.

But even the sites promoting these dogs don't say that they provide much in a public sphere.

Can you explain to me what the dog does when you are out in public that provides you with assistance? In particular, in a restaurant what would the dog provide?

I don't want to be judgmental about this and I am really interested in what you have to say.

[Hepburn]

157. I have severe difficulties with hearing things which are behind me.

Such as crossing a parking lot to get to the restaurant entrance -- I cannot hear people, cars, etc., approaching me from the rear. Also: Inside, if I get up from the table for any reason, I cannot hear people behind me or servers with hot food trays, even if they call out to me. My dog when outside pulls me away from sounds behind me -- such as to the side of a parking lot, roadway or side walk, or stops to let me know I need to be aware of what is behind me both inside a building and outside. If I am alone in a restaurant and a waiter or waitress walks up to me, at times I do not realize he or she may be there and speaking to me and the dog alerts to them by bumping my arm. If an alarm goes off -- such as a smoke alarm, my dog lets me know.

The most important thing with the dog and being in public is usually in grocery stores -- people at times let their children run around without supervision and I have avoided being run over several times by electric carts and children. My dog rides on a blanket in the "child section" of the cart with her head pointing to my left and I stay to the right. If something fast approaches from the rear, she alerts me immediately.

Malls are often a circus -- especially during holidays and right after school lets out. Same thing there -- dog lets me know if someone or something is fast approaching from the rear or if an alarm bell is going off.

In addition to being hearing impaired, I have some problems keeping my balance due to a hereditary disease. So, the dog alerting is very important to my safety for this reason as well.

[cbayer]

162. Thank you so much for your very thoughtful response. It makes a lot of sense to me.

I think you are getting caught up in the epidemic of questionable service animals that has become problematic in some areas.

I recently read an article about this and they highlighted NYC and San Francisco, but it would not surprise me that there is a problem, or potential problem, in LA as well.

Your explanation makes it clear that the dog is critical to your ability to function safely outside your home. For some of the newer service dogs, I don't think that has been as well established.

[Walk away]

203. Don't forget if you drop your keys of wallet.

My friend's hearing dog is forever alerting her to keys falling. If you don't hear something hit the ground you never know it's gone until you go to use it.

[barbtries]

143. the city i grew up in

it's also an extremely racist town. i hope to never live there again.

eta: i'm sorry you had to go through that. i know i've eaten at spires but cannot remember where it's at, somewhere on hawthorne blvd i imagine?

[Hepburn]

164. This one is at Sepulveda and Western.

Behind the Conroy's (?) flowers and before the RR crossing on Sepulveda.

[barbtries]

195. i know exactly where that is.

i grew up on 228th street just east of hawthorne

[sulphurdunn]

144. I think guys

who don't remove their hats at table should have a segregated section out by the dumpster with politicians, bankers, evangelists and teabaggers.

[Cairycat]

146. It seems to me that separation (NOT segregation) would accommodate both

the person with the service animal and the allergic person. Perhaps the person arriving second should move? Especially if one has been served their food and the other not.

My sister is blind. She has a beautiful small black Lab guide dog. Let me tell you about a couple of experiences she's had with her dog.

She went to an exercise class with her guide dog. She brought a towel for her dog to lay on. But another woman attending the class got up and left in a huff.

My sister and her guide dog went into a bakery with me. The owner would not allow her dog in there. I got really mad and was ready to call the cops. But my sister said that since she didn't live in that town and wouldn't be going to the bakery on a regular basis, she would just wait in the car. A big part of the problem was that the bakery owner was a Bosnian Muslim, so we had language and religious/cultural differences going on.

My sister's blindness affects every aspect of her life, every moment of every day. All disabilities are difficult for the person who has them, perhaps putting ourselves in other's shoes would be more productive than worrying about whose problem is worse or if accommodating me necessarily tramples on your rights, KWIM?

[Hepburn]

161. Amen! N/T

[Liberal_in_LA]

148. kick

[DeSwiss]

149. Spires is now on the SHIT LIST. - K&R n/t

[whistler162]

232. Make ist simple.... every restuarant is on

the shit list for some offense, real or imagined!

[DeSwiss]

237. That's pretty much the case for me anyway.

I don't eat out much because I don't trust the food.

- But thanks for your idea!

[Jenoch]

151. I have not yet read the thread. I want to get some information

without influence by the posts already here.

Was the area reserved for those with service animals about the same in both decor and service the same as other areas of the dining room?

[Hepburn]

159. Not really...

...it was a booth by the service entrance and entrances to the restrooms.

[Jenoch]

169. It sounds like an area of a restaurant where I have ended up being seated many times,

but only when there are not other places to sit.

I would not wish to be treated in this manner. It will be interesting to see if there is any negative reaction to this restaurant by others. (P.S. I just saw your review on Yelp.)

I sometimes think people choose to be offended just because they can.

I was in Mesa, Arizona a couple of years ago and heard about a situation where a customer at a restaurant asked the manager to ask a uniformed policeman, who was dining at a nearby table, if he would please put his service handgun in his car because she was offended by the sight of it. Unbelieveable.

[rock]

154. I would love to see the list of

the other patrons who are offended by having a dog in the restaurant. In fact, I would like to make it public.

[Hepburn]

173. I can understand being offended...that is one thing.

But what did they have to do to get a restaurant manager to segregate me from everyone else? And why would anyone agree to discriminate against any handicapped person?

This thread is amazing to me -- it's not an argument about what handicap or disability is worse -- it's about discrimination. PERIOD. There are accommodations for all handicaps and disabilities...and then there is discrimination from the get-go against certain ones.

I cannot understand why people cannot see the difference.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

250. Why?

[rock]

258. Thought it obvious

1) make sure the manager is not making it up;
2) if you're an asshole, you need to be publicized.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

263. Wow, you've got a lot of publicizing to do! However, people who are offended by dogs in restaurantsa

are not necessarily assholes. Not everyone wants to eat where dogs are shedding hair, jumping on people, slobbering, and/or biting. I wouldn't go to a "pets welcome" restaurant if I could avoid
it.
But service dogs are allowed there for a very good reason, so that's a different story.

[secondvariety]

155. What they did to you is pretty crappy.

I'd avoid that place like the plague. What was the segregated area like? Personally, I try to sit as far away from the hoi polloi as possible when I go restauranting. Most people's table manners are atrocious.

[appleannie1]

156. This needs posted at Facebook. They would lose all their business except the offended asses.

[Hepburn]

160. I don't have a facebook account...can someone do this for me?

I had one, but I cannot get into it anymore. Not sure why and have tried to fix it...but no luck.

Thanks!

[appleannie1]

165. Posted to my wall. There is a restaurant in PGH that does not allow children

Since my whole family are going through our "second childhood" none of us will eat there. Unfortunately, people that were never kids themselves don't think people with kids should ever eat out.

[Hepburn]

168. wow...

...and here for years, I thought children ate food. My bad...

Thanks for the posting, Annie...and nice to see ya!

[appleannie1]

177. It has been a while.

[luvspeas]

180. John and Catherine Hartakis...

They are the presidents of this company. I strongly urge all of you to do a little googling and email, phone and write to them to let them know how you feel about this.

possible home address and phone:
1571 Clearview Ln #R
Santa Ana, CA 92705

[phone]

Corporate office is here:

Spires Restaurant Inc
1411 N Batavia St Ste 110, Ste 110
Orange, California 92867
[phone]

Call and ask for Catherine directly.

[Scootaloo]

183. Sadly, this thread seems to have descended into literal "pit bull at olive garden" territory

Bottom line is simple. The law allows for service animals to be within the establishment. A professional establishment would treat a customer with a service animal as it would any other customer - and other customers who are offended by the animal are under no compulsion to remain in the animal's presence.

Simple enough. Their preferences do not trump your rights.

[liberalhistorian]

239. People with asthma and animal allergies

are also covered under the ADA and they also have rights. Their disabilities are just as important and the OP's disability does not trump it either. I agree that it was the wrong choice of words and an idiotic thing for the manager to say, and there should not be a segregated area for those with service dogs, but if someone with an allergy or asthma triggered by dogs is already seated, then they should not have to be the ones to move. My husband has allergies, including to dogs, and an attack brought on by animal dander, where he cannot breathe, is truly frightening and should not simply be brushed aside. It's different from someone who has no such issues, but who would just prefer not to be around dogs.

[Mariana]

246. An asthmatic or allergic person should inform the staff

of the restaurant, when they first enter and before they're seated, that they can't be near a service animal. If the asthmatic or allergic person chooses to keep their (invisible) disability a secret, how can the workers be expected to accommodate them?

According to the OP, the manager gave zero indication that anyone was allergic or asthmatic or had any other disability that might be affected by the presence of a service dog.

[wercal]

185. Is there anything identifying the dog as a service dog?

I ask because its become almost hip to have a companion dog, stress dog, etc.

I've seen dogs with clear signage that they are service dogs...if nothing else, it prevents people from trying to go up to it and pet it, etc. But it also serves as notice that this is a trained service dog.

In my experience, I have never seen a labeled service dog denied entry to any place...and I actually thought it would be an ADA violation to do so. But just like an ADA parking stall has to be properly marked, my expectation would be that genuine service dogs like yours would also have to be properly labeled.

[Stinky The Clown]

186. You should let the media know about this.

I'm sure someone will be interested in the story.

[Bennyboy]

191. I am going to play Devil's advocate here...

I am a dog lover, having two right now....(but they never leave my yard)

and tell ya that the "Service dog" is a HUGE problem in California. So many people have them, and for all kinds of maladies, that in some cases it is creating a huge problem for all kinds of businesses from grocery stores to restaurants to concerts and bars. it is not you, or the other guy but lots of people have them for some pretty lame reasons and now there are zillions of people who have them strictly so they can take their dogs anywhere. And please don't tell me that does not happen. It does, I know people, a lot of people, who do this.

So the business owner, who doesn't want dogs, has to do something. Dogs no matter how behaved, shed. And that hair becomes a problem to remove and increases the probability of customer complaints. The servers hate the dogs because if they touch them they have to wash immediately. And in a restaurant with dogs that is going to happen. One dog in a restaurant okay. Two dogs and I get antsy and more than that, well I will leave. No matter the patch or the breed. At my local Starbux there is a trainer of aide dogs and he brings his usual dog in and two dogs he is training at all times and they wander from patron to patron for a couple of hours in the morning. By the time those dogs have walked one end to the other of the restaurant many times.

As I am in the concert biz, we direct our staff to let anyone in with a service dog. and sometimes that can be hundreds of people at a large concert or festival.


Now imagine, if you are the promoter and those dogs cause a problem (such as the baby dieing in the dog fight at the Hog Farm way back when). How does the promoter both allow dogs and prevent that type of thing from happening? I have been to restaurants with four or five service dogs there. I have been to groceries that have multiple dogs inside, all with a patch and that really puts me off.

[quinnox]

196. Well, as someone who dislikes dogs, I would not go to a restaurant with dogs in them

I personally HATE dogs, and it would be especially disgusting to have them near food if I was eating in a restaurant. I have noticed a lot of dog lovers seem to get offended or surprised that not everyone loves their dogs. But it is true, there are people out there who don't think dogs are "cute and adorable". I know, we must just be horrible people. Excuse my rant, but this gets me going.

That said, if you need the dog to get around, then I simply would see there were dogs in the restaurant, and take my business elsewhere. I would not request anything else, as I understand there are service dogs that are necessary.

Another thing regarding dogs in public places - I use public transportation, and occasionally, and this seems to be happening more often, people with dogs will get onto the electric train, and I don't say anything, but I know not all of them are "service" dogs. It does make me want to cause a scene, and tell them they should not be bringing dogs on there. These are young people I am talking about, and I can tell they are not service dogs. It pisses me off.

[mbperrin]

205. I pity you.

no more need be said.

You've obviously had no contact with dogs, yet you have determined this course.

Sad.

[ajk2821]

209. Why the pity?

They are not allowed to not like dogs? I pity you for being so close minded about someone else's lifestyle.

[quinnox]

211. I believe that person is probably a dog lover,

and as I said many seem to get very offended if someone says something like I did. But I don't mind. They can assume stuff that is not true, because I have been around many dogs. That is one reason why I have grown to dislike them (dogs) so much. But oh well.

Thanks anyway, I agree with your post.

[LibDemAlways]

208. quinnox, I am personally pretty neutral when it

comes to dogs, but I know you are not alone. My late father would have immediately walked out of a restaurant if he spotted a dog. And here in California people do flaunt the law by passing off their pets as service animals. I frequently see dogs in markets and restaurants, and managers look the other way because they don't want to lose the business. It's gotten out of hand.

[quinnox]

210. Yep, I know there are others

like me, but they often don't say anything. There is a lot of social pressure because we are all assumed to be dog lovers, even when many are not. Well, maybe not "tons", but there are some out there anyway.

[LibDemAlways]

218. Recently in a local deli restaurant

Last edited Mon Oct 14, 2013, 03:38 PM - Edit history (1)

I spotted a guy with a small dog in the booth cuddled up beside him. He was about to leave, and when he did, someone at the next table called the manager over to complain. The manager just shrugged his shoulders, explaining that the guy was a "regular." The same week I was at a yogurt/ice cream shop at the beach when a guy walked in with a St. Bernard. The dog slobbered all over the display cases. It was a very unappetizing sight. The teenagers behind the counter came around to pet the dog and then went right back to work. I walked out without buying anything. Another recent time I boarded a bus right in front of a woman holding a dog. The bus driver challenged her and she became indignant and practically yelled that her dog was a service animal. No, he wasn't. He barked his head off, lunged toward other passengers, and, when she put him down, peed all over the floor. The bus driver had to pull over to clean up the mess.

You are right about the social pressure. If more people spoke up and managers were more willing to do their job, only legitimate service animals performing an actual service to their owners would be allowed in places where lawmakers have declared pets don't belong.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

252. Great examples.

I'm sure any minute someone will demand to know, "What if it was a child slobbering all over. Would you expect the store to ban kids?"

My answer: I would be fine with that.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

251. Amen. We have a friend who is crazy about dogs and she gets offended whenever i move away from her

dog or push it away when it tries to lick me. I don't want a dog slobbering on me or humping my leg or climbing in my lap.

Also, I hated Les Miserable, the recent film musical version.

Flame away.

[LibDemAlways]

255. You and I must have been separated at birth.

I have a close relative who thinks it's funny when his dog bites people. It's not. Another one, if given a choice between saving the life of a child or a dog, would, without hesitation, let the child die. Her 3 golden retrievers have the run of her house, eating off of the kitchen counter and licking people's plates after dinner.

I don't particularly dislike dogs, but I have a real problem with people who refuse to control them. Love me, love my dog? I'll take a pass.

Oh, and I hated Les Miz, too!

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

265. Our first dog, when I was 3 or 4 was named Neutron by my dad. Supposedly I liked that dog.

I don't really remember him, but I think it was a cool name. We then had Skippy Peanut Butter, who was some kind of Scotty-looking mut. He was cool, but he disappeared. Then we had a series of Golden Retrievers who were pretty but kind of troublemakers. They would "retrieve" things from our neighbors' garages. Also, one had a name similar to mine, and every time my parents yelled at that dog, I thought I was in big trouble.

Then there was Ralph. A mutt Collie. The best dog in the world. Beautiful eyes, calm, protective, and sweet. He was actually my sister's dog which stayed at my parents' house after she moved out, so we all knew and loved Ralph. He lived over 17 years, but had to finally be put down. That was a sad day.

So, I don't necessarily dislike dogs either. I don't have any desire to have one, though. As for other people's dogs--they are like small children. It's the parents and the dog owners who are usually to blame for their bad behavior.

I'm not sure who to blame for characters who sing every word to some random melody while overacting.

[TorchTheWitch]

201. Holy cow, this is just evil

And illegal as hell. I'd talk to an attorney about suing these asshole, and talk to the media as well.

I'm so sorry you were subjected to this horrendous treatment!

[Lil Missy]

202. That's not discrimination against you. It's common courtesy for the remaining patrons. n/t

[Rhiannon12866]

204. This kind of discrimination has to break the law.

I am so sorry that this happened to you.

[KurtNYC]

216. My dog has an answer for that Assistant Manager

Coco's has better food and service btw.

[MineralMan]

220. Several Minneapolis St. Paul restaurants with outdoor patio seating

have started allowing dogs on the patios. My wife and I took ours to one of those, and nobody complained about it. The dog sat quietly under the table by our feet, and we enjoyed our burgers and wine. Doggie got a burger, too, sans bun.

[Egalitarian Thug]

223. Are you new to Torrance?

Torrance is the guardhouse protecting the Orange Curtain.

[BellaLuna]

225. A bit of drama here dont' you think?

You were not denied service and the issue was the DOG.

Some people are afraid of dogs - service or otherwise. Some have allergies etc.. YOU were not the problem at all so get over it.

Perhaps the word 'offended' was not right but they did not deny you service, and saying they have areas set aside for the dog is not the end of the world but makes sense for those who have the fear etc.. There are lots of reasons - the dog won't be in the way of the servers etc.

[Mimosa]

269. Exactly so.

I love and adore cats and dogs. But some people have a fear of big dogs. In fact I was once attacked by a pair of Looziana 'fight trained' rottweillers who'd escaped their yard.

If Hepburn was seated in an equal nice area of a restaurant and promptly, politely served, what is the problem?

[Capt. Obvious]

226. You shall overcome

someday

[BellaLuna]

228. Which Spires were you at.. the one on Hawthorne or near Western?

???

[Bertha Venation]

229. I'm sorry, Hepburn.

I'm sorry you were subjected to such indignity.

Will you file a complaint under the ADA?

[tavernier]

231. The manager was wrong, but...

I have to present the other side of the coin. We managed a no-pets resort for fifteen years; time share and the owners made that rule, not me... I love animals.

Anyway, over the years we had a few service animals, and truthfully, it was a problem almost every time: not the pet, but the owner. One lady let the dog out of the front door in the morning where it would run around the compound for a couple of hours and do its business. She did not pick up after. Another kept the dog in the garage when he went out to dinner with friends, where it howled for hours. Another sunbathed by the pool while the dog jumped in and splashed around amongst the kids. Kids didn't mind but the parents were apoplectic.

I have every reason to believe that you are a responsible dog owner, but perhaps the manager of that restaurant has run into ppl before who weren't.

Hug your pup for me... I love all dogs especially the ones who go to work to better our lives. I just thought you might like to know that not all dog owners are considerate of other people's space.

[alp227]

233. PATHETIC on the part of the restaurant management.

What is WRONG with modern society with their bigotry against the "non perfect" people? As Ana Kasparian says (2:20 in this video), in SoCal "there's this emphasis on the way you look at all times." Sadly, upper class doesn't come with moral values always.

[Pab Sungenis]

235. Get a lawyer.

I think this violates the ACA. You're not supposed to segregate patrons with special needs.

[Jamastiene]

236. That's ridiculous!

That is out and out discrimination. I wonder if there is a way to sue them for that? They are violating the ADA, aren't they?

[mentalsolstice]

238. So disgusting to read some responses here

However, given some of the things I've read here lately, I'm not surprised! I feel like I inadvertently took a hard right turn and landed in freeper land. So much "but what about my sensibilities?" And a pissing contest about who has it worse. Hopefully, none you will never know what it's like to rely on a service dog, wheelchair or full-time caregiver to accompany you wherever you go. And to suggest segregation, OMFG! So what if you show up with two non-disabled friends, or 5, or 10, 15...are you going to get turned away because you want to eat, drink, celebrate with too many friends.

I don't want to get in a pissing match about which group gets discriminated against the most or who encounters the most hurdles, but I'll give you a hint...

I will say a few responses were so predictable and not at all surprised at who made them.

Hepburn, I'm so sad you had to go through this!

[uppityperson]

241. Uh huh. Tell Frank hi. eom

[William769]

242. Kick & recommended.

[DirkGently]

261. KNR. Illegal & unacceptable.

[Mimosa]

264. Who owns the restaurant?

Since the restaurant did seem to have an area set aside for people accompanied by service dogs then they were not in violation of the laws.

Hepburn, you're obviously not among the few, but in some municipalities, a very few miscreants have managed to get certification that their *untrained canines* pets are service dogs. A whole nother story.

Shortly before Hurricane Katrina happened, in NOLA (where I lived for near 20 years) we got a whole lot of Muslim cab drivers after 1991.Several times there were incidents where Muslim cab drivers refused to transport the blind! This happened to a sweet dear friend and her well behaved wonderful Golden Lab. Hit the TV and newspaper.