‘Nothing like this ever happened before’

[kentuck]

<snip>

“Republicans made a mistake, they picked a fight, they had no strategy, they had no endgame, they had no plan,” Noonan agreed. “That having been said, I think the president has made counter mistakes, not only in the famous stories of the things that were forcibly shut down in the shutdown and all that stuff, but his — the sense he has communicated that, ‘Hey, I’m not having a conversation, we’re not having negotiations.’ Presidents have to negotiate on debt limits. They have to own it.”

“We have all worked in White Houses, we’ve seen presidents do this,” she added. “You can call what the other side does to you extortion. What it really is, is an argument and a deal. And at the end, you trade some horses and do your best.”

“That never happened,” Krugman shot back. “Nothing like this has ever happened before. All of the the alleged former examples, if you actually look at them, they turn out to be either — there was a budget deal that included a debt ceiling raise but the debt ceiling was not a hostage. Or once — once — [former Speaker] Tip O’Neill held up the debt ceiling for one day more as symbolism.”

“There was never before a case where one party pushed the U.S. government to the edge of default demanding concessions in return,” the New York Times columnist insisted. “So, every attempt to make this sound like business as usual, it’s not. This is something completely out of the previous experience.”


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/13/krugman-lectures-noonan-on-gop-hostage-taking-nothing-like-this-ever-happened-before/

[Squinch]

1. She is such a complete moron. And she presents herself like a bad sophomore

English teacher.

[AlbertCat]

2. Never forget!

Peggy loony Noonan chided President Clinton, over the Elián González affair, for not recognizing that GOD himself had sent dolphins to protect the boy in the Florida Straits.

IOW.... she's nuts and will say anything.... anything at all....

Besides, who the hell cares what these has-been Repugs of failed administrations think? What next? Let's ask Chenney! Or perhaps Rummy!

[Emit]

3. Noonan

[thecrow]

4. You must know this:

From the Huffington Post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/13/house-republicans-rules-change_n_4095129.html

Though at least 28 House Republicans have publicly said they would support a clean CR if it were brought to the floor -- enough votes for the government to reopen when combined with Democratic support -- a House rule passed just before the shutdown essentially prevents that vote from taking place.

During a floor speech on Saturday, Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) drew attention to the quietly passed rule when he attempted to present a motion to accept the Senate's clean continuing resolution and reopen the government.

Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah), presiding over the chamber, told Van Hollen that the rule he was asking to use had been "altered" and he did not have the privilege of bringing that vote to the floor. In the ensuing back and forth, Chaffetz said the recently passed House Resolution 368 trumped the standing rules. Where any member of the House previously could have brought the clean resolution to the floor under House Rule 22, House Resolution 368 -- passed on the eve of the shutdown -- gave that right exclusively to the House majority leader, Rep. Eric Cantor of Virginia

**************************
So they shut it down, and only they can open it? Democracy is dead in the House. God help us.

[Drew Richards]

6. So why the hell are there no democrates screaming this on tv and taking this to the supreme court

For a stay or nullification...this has to be an unconstitutional rule from the house...it denys due process in the bicameral system.

[thecrow]

7. It was featured on the Chris Hayes Show tonight

If you go to MSNBC and go to his show, you can probably see it or stay up late and get it on the repeat.

[Drew Richards]

12. Thanks!

[blkmusclmachine]

5. The GOPee needs to be put down.

[Beartracks]

11. Yes, put it out of our misery. n/t

[Uncle Joe]

8. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, kentuck.

[merrily]

9. The President said that it happened in the 1700s. Since the Constitution was

ratified in 1789, that must have been soon after formal formation of the nation? Or maybe in the period of the Articles of Confederation?

I'd love to know what he meant. Think I'll do some googling!

[Beartracks]

10. Really? "The GOP is wrong to pull this stunt. The Dems are wrong not to cave?" n/t