Is opposition to Obamacare race based?

[Vietnameravet]

I got a heated telephone call from a neighbor after a letter I published said that the GOP wanted Obamacare to fail because they just hate this black president and will stop at nothing to destroy him...and that is the basis of just about everything they do,,,

Any thoughts on this?? Some people think I am going too far in constantly making that claim

I would like to get some feedback from others

Thanks and dont hesitate to be honest with me even if you think I am wrong..

[ScreamingMeemie]

1. Well...ummm...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023842809

I think you are being proven right as time passes...

I think the majority of half-cocked, idiotic opposition to Obama is race-based.

I do know several thinking Dems and Republicans who are opposed to Obamacare, but they are able to string 2 words together.

[NRaleighLiberal]

2. I think a portion of it may be, but not all of it...

I think if you said that "they hate this president" it is more encompassing, and a portion of those that hate Obama hate him because of his race....

[Shrike47]

30. I can only agree.

[yuiyoshida]

47. Agree!

[arcane1]

3. It's ultimately greed-based.

But that doesn't stop them from using the Nixon/Reagan "southern strategy" to lure people to their side.

[Skittles]

4. mmm...well they DO hate a black president

but they would hate any overhaul of health insurance done by any Democrat

[dkf]

5. Gee was Obama against black people when he campaigned against the individual mandate?

The mandate was Hillary's plan and Romney's plan and Nixon's plan.

It became Obama's plan after people like me decided to support him over Hillary because he did not support the individual mandate.

[JoePhilly]

7. did obama really campaign against the mandate??

No.

In fact, during the debates, Obama said he understood why Hillary supported it. He simply felt he could do the same basic law with out it.

[dkf]

11. He mocked it and said if a person can't afford it you can't mandate it.

Don't you remember?

And here just for you...the Atlantic quotes an Obama campaign ad.

http://m.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/06/how-obama-broke-his-promise-on-individual-mandates/259183/

One Obama TV ad drove the point home: "Hillary Clinton's attacking, but what's she not telling you about her health care plan? It forces everyone to buy insurance, even if you can't afford it, and you pay a penalty if you don't."

[JoePhilly]

40. And in the debate with her, he walked that back, and said he understood

why she felt it was necessary.

And he went on to say that although he understood why she felt it was needed, he would rather get the prices down such that you would not need the mandate because everyone would join voluntarily.

Probably why the increase to Medicaid and subsidies are so important, don't you think?

The reality is that their positions on this, and on pretty much everything else, were so close as to be almost indistinguishable. Hillary being slightly to Obama's right.

[leftstreet]

12. Yes, he really did

He turned an already unenthusiastic base completely against Hillary

Obama to DeGeneres on Why He Opposed Individual Mandate: Forcing Uninsured to Buy Insurance Is Like Forcing Homeless to Buy Homes

- Long before his administration went into federal court to fight 27 states that are now challenging the constitutionality of the federal government forcing people to buy health insurance, then-presidential candidate Barack Obama told Ellen DeGeneres that—unlike his opponent Hillary Clinton—he opposed forcing the uninsured to buy health insurance, saying that it would be like forcing the homeless to buy homes.

“Both of us want to provide health care to all Americans. There’s a slight difference, and her plan is a good one. But, she mandates that everybody buy health care. She’d have the government force every individual to buy insurance and I don’t have such a mandate because I don’t think the problem is that people don’t want health insurance, it’s that they can’t afford it,” Obama said in a Feb. 28, 2008 appearance on Ellen DeGeneres' television show. “So, I focus more on lowering costs. This is a modest difference. But, it’s one that she’s tried to elevate, arguing that because I don’t force people to buy health care that I’m not insuring everybody. Well, if things were that easy, I could mandate everybody to buy a house, and that would solve the problem of homelessness. It doesn’t." - See more at: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-degeneres-why-he-opposed-individual-mandate-forcing-uninsured-buy-insurance#sthash.CtFExdz9.dpuf

[JoePhilly]

41. You should have put this part ...

"This is a modest difference. But, it’s one that she’s tried to elevate, arguing that because I don’t force people to buy health care that I’m not insuring everybody."This is a modest difference."

Then ... see my post about the debates above.

This was never a major difference in the campaign. Not in the primaries, and not in the General.

Their positions on the Iraq war and how and when to end it were much larger issues.

[leftstreet]

46. That makes it even worse

He's on record claiming he won't 'force' anyone to buy health care

[IdaBriggs]

49. Except the poor aren't being forced to buy insurance.

He managed to get subsidies to make it darn near close to free for the vast majority of them.

It is the Not-Poor who are squealing the most - those rates are going up (even though the government is subsidizing the poor, and they "ON EDIT: the insurance companies" are getting more clients), and we still have the "not poor enough to get a subsidy" folk + "my state hates Obama and won't take free money" people.

He won the political battle. Props to him. And personally, I think Hillary helped him figure some of it out (but I still don't want her back in the White House because I don't like legacy votes - Bush or Clinton - and I still admire her).

[leftstreet]

50. The government is 'getting more clients?'

What an odd statement

[IdaBriggs]

54. MIS-TYPE! Lol! I meant "the insurance companies" are getting more clients--

and the government is paying for them.

It is early yet!

[rocktivity]

6. In the immortal words of the immortal Beatles

[center][font size="7"]"Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!"[/font][/center]
He's racism's worst nightmare: a black man having power over whites. They just CAN'T admit it, that's all.


rocktivity

[spanone]

8. does the pope shit in the woods?

[demwing]

13. No, in fact.

I don't think your analogy works.

[libdem4life]

9. Yes. Also the level of vitriol that gets hurled at Hillary, a woman. I don't remember anything

close to that level of abject hatred and histrionics (including race-baiting against Michelle) against any political leader. Neither is Liberal, so that can't be used as an issue.

Both are standing firm and breaking through the white, male middle class ceiling into the highest level of politics.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

10. Does the sun rise in the east?

[A HERETIC I AM]

14. I think there is a significant number of Republicans of modest means....

and even poor, who just can't stand the idea that any of their tax dollars will be spent to help anyone else.

They have had it drilled into their heads that any government program that "gives" money to ANYONE, particularly the poor and disadvantaged, is doing so because those people don't want to work and are therefore leaches off the government.

I know plenty of otherwise decent people who hold that view. They just don't like people getting money from the government, unless it is them, of course.

[Coyotl]

15. I know rednecks who say so every day! The hatred and racism is very strong.

Some try to hide the real reason, others are blatant about their hate and proud of it too!

[leftstreet]

16. Does support for his policies indicate lack of racism?

[rury]

17. Yes, it is mostly race-based.

[Decaffeinated]

18. IMO, vast vast majority is not...

[gopiscrap]

19. I would say that's a good portion of it

[Paulie]

20. If the PPACA is polled either called ACA or Obamacare

The former they love the latter they hate. Doesn't matter that the right made up the term Obamacare as an epithet. The President could say the sky is blue and he'd get shit for it from the whackadoodles; So of course it's about race. To deny it is to deny reality.

[brooklynite]

21. Remember "HILLARYCARE"?

Same point of view.

[solarhydrocan]

22. Obama was against the Obamacare that passed

Barack Obama : "If (mandates) were that easy I could mandate everyone to buy a house and that would solve the problem of homelessness -- it doesn't"

I was against mandates along with Obama.

He "changed his mind" - not me.

If a McCain administration had passed a law requiring the purchase of insurance without the promised public option or single payer included that was enforced by the IRS ---- and that had deductibles so high most of the "insurance" would never be used--

Would everyone that supports it now support it then?

[Arkansas Granny]

23. That may be part of it, but I think that any idea put forward by any Democrat is going

to get the same reception from the tea baggers. They have been conditioned to hate liberals and anyone with liberal ideas. They have isolated and insulated themselves from the mainstream so thoroughly that they consider their opinions are the only ones with any merit. Those who don't agree with them are considered godless and unpatriotic. Hate radio has a lot to do with this along with Fox news.

[BluegrassStateBlues]

24. Yes. Or sheer jealousy that some fare better under the ACA than others. nt

[Yo_Mama]

25. No, I don't believe most of it is.

I believe it is based on the personal impact for the most part. Persons for whom this works well will be very happy; persons for whom this represents higher costs/greater uncertainty will not be.

[HooptieWagon]

26. Mostly because hes a Democrat.

That hes black just rachets up the hate to a fever pitch.

[Wounded Bear]

27. I have come to believe that there is something else at play....

Much of it is race-based, of course, because the country as a whole has not fixed that problem yet.

But the hatred of the act comes from the top, who are 'above' such things, I think. The real power brokers behind this reflect, IMHO, a rebirth of the states rights movement.

This doesn't seem to go away. It led to the Constitution, as the new Americans after the Revolution came to realize that the Articles of Confederation just weren't working. After the Constitution was ratified, there was still a lot of dissatisfaction and hatred of the central authority in Washington. Eventually, that led to the Civil War. Once again, we can see its ugly head rearing up.

Consider the rising of secessionist movements in Alaska (remember Caribou Barbie's husband?) and Texas. There are people who take such ideas seriously, and want to emphasize that the United States is not a nation made of provinces, like France, but is a Federated Republic made up of independent states. Corporate power always has a certain dichotomy to work with. Having uniform laws across the country is easier from an administrative sense, fewer differing regulatory regimes to deal with. However, the fragmentation also helps, because the individual states are weaker and easier to exploit than a big national government.

Just something I've been musing on lately.

[handmade34]

32. Hey Bear, you are correct of course...

but doesn't the "States Rights" issue have its roots in xenophobia and irrational fear of losing control to the 'other'...

not being able to 'connect' to someone different or have empathy creates distrust, fear, hate, etc...

the irony here is that the expansiveness of the United States' land and its people made it great but those same things now have the potential to tear it down

[elleng]

28. True, but I'd select those I say it to carefully.

[handmade34]

29. Yes

opposition to Obamacare is race based... but, yes you are probably going too far by constantly making the claim...

of course, not ALL opposition is race based and much that is, comes from people that are immature and that aren't even aware that their deepseated fear and loathing for people of color is coming through (akin to Dunning-Kruger effect)... it is certainly just a minority that openly hate President Obama because of the color of his skin...

...the call you received from the neighbor was certainly one of the unawares... being as how he/she was upset

But there’s one more important piece of the story. Conservative leaders are indeed ideologically extreme, but they’re also deeply incompetent. So much so, in fact, that the Dunning-Kruger effect — the truly incompetent can’t even recognize their own incompetence — reigns supreme.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/07/opinion/krugman-the-boehner-bunglers.html?_r=0

[Vietnameravet]

33. I think "openly" is the key

as someone explained to me..open racism is no longer acceptable ,.,.,.but the feelings are still there..just expressed in different ways..

[handmade34]

35. you must remember too

that many people (especially older, but not all) were raised in an environment where racism was everyday and not questioned... these people often don't even understand themselves and how they feel... I was an example... it wasn't until I left home that I realized some of the things I said and did were "racist" and I had to make a conscious effort to change

[Vietnameravet]

31. Explination of my thinking

I cannot look into the heart of everyone and I have to assume that there are some people who have principled opposition to Obama and the health care law but..
I think there is a lot of racism in opposition because I simply cannot understand the sheer amount of hate and vitriol directed toward the president from the very beginning.. I cannot explain the rage of the TEA party and the willingness of so many to believe every evil thing about Obama..and so reluctant to accept the facts..The insanity of the birthers and the total unwillingness of so many to accept the fact that he is a US citizen..why not a similar "concern" about ted Cruz who was born in Canada?
Why the signs African witch doctor and that pic with Michele and a monkey both laughing in the same way

Why does Glenn Beck have such a following and I am not so sure he was booted out of Fox for his remarks about Obama hating white culture..but millions listen to him..

Why did so many people believe the nonsense about death panels? and the talk about "winning back our country"

Then the was John Sununu and his often repeated charge that Obama is "lazy" and sister Sarah and her comment about Obama doing the "shuck and jive" and the frequent reference to his middle name "Hussein" and the charge that he has Kenyan values..no where are these charged countered and so I have to conclude that race is a very big factor in opposition to Obama

[handmade34]

34. you're preaching mostly

to the choir here... the problem is, the people that really need to understand all you say- cannot accept the big bold truth outright and will need more time to come around

[bbernardini]

36. Absolutely. At least with the Teabaggers.

They had absolutely no problem with Bush spending like a drunken sailor on shore leave, but as soon as Obama got in...

Basically, they feel the Oval Office should be solely occupied by white men, and they're trying to put that "uppity" Obama in his place.

[dem in texas]

37. Yes, you are so right

The tea party will continue to deny this, but if you listen to what they say, you can hear the racism in their remarks: "He is not one of Us", "He answers to his Kenyan Heritage","Let's see his birth certificate", etc.

But what these people forget is that Obama is half white.

[lostincalifornia]

38. At least 50% probably more is

[mwrguy]

39. Almost all opposition to Obama is race based

ACA included.

[leftstreet]

44. How did he get elected?

[mwrguy]

55. GOTV

[gollygee]

42. Some of it

in two ways:

1. There are some who dislike Obama largely because he is black and oppose anything he does for that reason.

2. There are also some who incorrectly assume that any time the government provides a service, it is being provided primarily to people of color and being paid for almost entirely by taxes from white people.

So people who have 1, or 2, or both in their heads are opposing it for racist reasons.

[LWolf]

43. No.

I'm not a fan, and it has nothing to do with race. It has to do with pretending that insurance = CARE, and with promoting for-profit insurance over a national health CARE plan.

[Puzzledtraveller]

51. You racked up 36k+ posts just to hide your racism, admit it.

Seriously. OP's like this make me wonder.

I'm not a fan, and it has nothing to do with race. It has to do with pretending that insurance = CARE, and with promoting for-profit insurance over a national health CARE plan.

Spot on.

Funny how we all are supposed to be corporatists now around here.

[LWolf]

56. We're supposed to adopt,

embrace, the policies of elected neoliberal Democrats; party loyalty.

Except I'm about issues.

[madokie]

45. The opposition to anything Obama is race based

I'm convinced of that.
Americans or a lot of americans are racist assholes, again I'm convinced of that.

The old white mans club that has had a lock on the presidency for ever can't be having anyone other than a white MAN in the oval office. Especially if that person is seen as a good person doing good for the american people as a whole, whether they be black, brown or heaven forbid a woman. Thats why so much vitriol is shown towards anything Hillary also.

[Puzzledtraveller]

53. All opposition?

From the left and the right?

[JHB]

48. Definitely a factor, especially the less overt forms, but at top it's different

Among the teabaggers:
The people I know think of racism as overt bigotry. The word "racism" conjures up images of the Klan, and "white supremacism" is the stuff of fringe groups that shout "white power". It's not something they do, so they don't see themselves as racist. They treat the black people they know as people (the bit of truth in "some of my best friends...&quot .

But once it gets abstracted a bit and things become about groups, they operate on stereotypes (many of which were generated by racism). That less-visible racism is the "sweetener" that lets them swallow entire piles of horseshit and ask for seconds (and thirds. And more tomorrow, please!). That makes them believe stories about "welfare queens" and buying steaks and lobsters with food stamps and think everyone on those programs is doing it, not just a couple of frauds. It gives them rock-solid belief that there's a vast army of layabouts livin' it up on the the taxes they pay, and that the Democrats buy the loyalty of these layabouts with more and more handouts.

Some portion of them are overt bigots that hate Obama just because he's black and that blacks should be lower on the totem pole than whites, for a much larger share... It's not water their Kool-ade is mixed with.

However, that's at the lower echelons. Up at the top, the Movement Conservatives and billionaires, they're the ones mixing the Kool-ade. Their notion of the glory days of the nation is the Gilded Age. They want to remove labor laws, environmental protection laws, safety net programs, social insurance programs, everything that government does that impedes the wealthy from exploiting whatever and however they please. They define "tyranny" as anything the government does that limits their ability to act like tyrants to everybody else.

[get the red out]

52. No and Yes IMO

For the big corporations and Fox News behind the creation of the Tea Bagging no, it's about making money and not taxing the rich. For their minions it definitely has a strong racist element.

[mmonk]

57. Yes. They just won't admit it but it is an underlying theme.