Colbert King: Where are the arrests over the World War II Memorial protest?

[cali]

<snip>

Not confining their protest to the World War II Memorial, some of the protesters then picked up the government’s metal barricades and carried them blocks away to the White House, where the barricades were deposited outside the gates.

Television recorded police struggling to keep the protesters away from the White House fence. No arrests were made.

Now, let’s see if I have this straight: If a group of people decide they don’t like the closing of facilities under the federal government shutdown, they are now empowered to take wire cutters to the locks, push aside barriers and go in and about on their merry way without fear of arrest?

<snip>

What’s a federal shutdown order between the politically privileged and the pliant protectors of public facilities?

Apparently nothing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/10/14/where-are-the-arrests-over-the-world-war-ii-memorial-protest/

[lonestarnot]

1. So much for lady justice.

[PeteSelman]

2. They are the most craven people. Using old vets as human shields.

They knew the cops couldn't wade into them with batons swinging if they intermingled with octogenarian war heroes. There are the most cowardly pieces of shit known to man.

[steve2470]

4. agreed ! nt

[Berlum]

5. Chickenhawk Reublicons USE our honorable vets to shield themselves

Totally craven.

Totally telling.

[steve2470]

3. if Democrats had done all that, they would have been arrested

No doubt in my mind. I was amazed they cut the locks and carried government property all the way to the White House. Pretty damn bold.

[RandiFan1290]

6. Pigs don't care if you are a veteran or if you are 84

If you are protesting the right you will get beaten and arrested.
Who called these pigs off?

[Fumesucker]

7. IOKIYAR n/t

[NewJeffCT]

8. They're afraid they'll be raked over the coals

like the IRS was when they supposedly targeted conservative groups.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

9. The comments made me lose my breakfast!

[LisaLynne]

10. I didn't understand why they were involved at all.

They are proud of the fact that they made the shutdown happen, but then they are all filled with self-righteous rage and grab the barricades? They really behave in an insane manner.

[Puzzledtraveller]

11. Occupy and similar groups drew attention to what the PTB's would rather you ignore.

War memorials and the like with vets and right wingers is far less a threat in their minds. This administration as with all others and the puppet masters that control them know who the threats are. You can gauge this simply by their reactions.

[7962]

12. Sorry, but I'm off the reservation on this one. These "closings" are bullshit

I know most here will disagree, but I've said it before, it's all a show. Closing privately run parks, closing open air monuments/memorials, "closing" wide spots in the road so you cant LOOK at a mountain, closing Mt Vernon (privately owned and run) because 1 parking lot is shared property, etc. The list is long and ridiculous. The GOP being a bunch of idiots doesnt mean the Administration should stoop to their level.
I always use this test: If Bush was still president, what would I be saying? I'm pretty sure most people here would be saying what I'm saying or a LOT worse. it's all a stupid show to make the other side look worse. They do that well enough on their own without having to stoop to their level.
OK, I'll bend over now and take my punishment............

[cali]

14. I disagree but even if I didn't. fuck the asswipe vandalizing, thieving, racist pig

faux veteran teathugs. and arrest them when they blatantly break the law.

duh.

[Beaverhausen]

15. Parks and memorials are just symbols

The shutdown is literally life and death for many. These closings a are a stupid thing to get upset about.

[mountain grammy]

18. Agree! There's a question of perspective here. We need food inspectors working,

we need airline inspectors working, we need EPA inspectors working. All the memorials in the world won't help our polluted air and water or a mass outbreak of food borne illnesses.
Close a memorial for a few weeks or lose a lake to pollution for generations... what are we even talking about?

[7962]

21. Of course we do! I agree the shutdown is ridiculous and a stupid GOP stunt. Thats not my point.

I'm just pointing out that these closings are a load of crap just used to solidify the public opinion against the gop. Which it already is being blamed by pretty much everybody anyway. There is no need for what is being done.
And there are a lot of people losing money at these parks as well. Eating establishments, tour operators, rental folks, etc.
If I drove by a wide spot in the road with cones in front of it, I'd move the damn things too. And you know darn well if dubya was in charge and this was happening, you'd all be saying the same thing I am but using a whole lot more cussing to do it!

I use this analogy often.... I want my team to win but I dont want them to hire a wife beater as the QB even if he is the best. I dont like my side using underhanded tactics just because the other side does it. That makes me no better than them. Didnt we say that about torture?

[TwilightGardener]

22. If there are supposed to be federally-paid personnel to patrol, safeguard, collect money, pick

up trash, control traffic, enforce laws, etc., and they aren't available--what do you have a problem with? What is to stop someone from defacing monuments, wrecking trails, stealing park resources, and so on if staff isn't there? The FIRST thing that should be shut down for lack of funding are parks and monuments, IMO. Just because you can see a monument or a view doesn't mean it's "open"--if you are on federal property, some federally-paid person is responsible for it. If that person is furloughed, then what?

[7962]

23. What about the places where there ARE no federally-paid personnel?

Claude Moore Colonial Farm in Virginia gets NO funding or personnel from the govt, but was told to close because of the shutdown. Only because it sits on federal land. It is maintained by non-government people and has never been closed during previous govt shutdowns. No government people do anything there.
Another, Mt Vernon, pretty much the same story. It is privately owned and operated but one of their parking lots is federal property but not maintained by the govt. I believe that particular order has since been reversed. There are many similar stories.

What you mention above may have merit in some situations, but there is no need to close a highway pull off to look at a darn mountain. If its because there's no park employees working, then the entire highway should be closed since it runs through federal land. I drive on highways every day (my job puts me on the road a LOT) that run through federal land. None of them are closed.

Not to mention how much manpower is being spent to DO these closings. There are plenty of parks and monuments where there are no federal personnel working.
Obviously most folks here disagree with me, but I just think it would be different if baby bush was still president.

[TwilightGardener]

24. Just because you don't see someone (ranger, etc.) doesn't

mean some federal employee isn't responsible somewhere--for the grounds, at the very least. If the attraction you mention SITS on federal land, then someone on a federal level is responsible for it, and that person has very likely been either furloughed or is working without pay, or is attending other functions. The point is, the least important shit gets cut off first, and if it turns out to be closed by mistake (mostly because operations and responsibilities have to figured out), then it reopens. There's no nefarious plot by Obama to deny access to Mt. Vernon. And no one is going to starve or die because they can't see this park or that house. What's really sad is stopping things like HeadStart, and military benefits (now fixed), and federal prison guards getting furloughed, and ATC working without pay.

[joeglow3]

26. So, you support this

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/10/shutdown-evicted-homeowners_n_4079243.html

[TwilightGardener]

28. "Support" is a weird word to use. This is just one of the reasons, though, that the GOP

shouldn't have shut down the government--people like this get caught in the net. The federal government is in a lot of places, but particularly in national parks--not surprising that these folks are affected. It's unfortunate, but so are everyone else's situations in this mess. Edit to add: to make it clear, I don't support ANY shutdown of anything. Because I'm a Democrat.

[joeglow3]

32. Why did none of this happen in past shutdowns

Clearly nothing went wrong in those shutdowns. Why are these things suddenly necessary now?

[TwilightGardener]

34. I assume a lot of it depends on the timing and funding at hand. Oct. 1st is the start of the fiscal

year, no? When did the last shutdowns occur, in the fiscal year? How were these things all funded to begin with? What measures? Continuing resolutions or some other law? What was in the coffers of the NPS when the last shutdown occurred, for example? The VA is going to start feeling effects of the shutdown very soon, from what I gather. Their funds are going to run dry. The DoD was not given a law to cover death gratuities, until last week. And no, I don't think the VA and the Pentagon are putting on a fucking show for politics, despite what the GOP allege.

[7962]

29. I dont think its a "plot", just a show. The sites I mention use no federal people or money.

They took over responsibility from the govt for the sites without owning the land. No one in the govt is responsible for anything there. I bet if they pay rent someones collecting the check!
You keep changing the topic from A to B. Closing things that cost NO FEDERAL MONEY has nothing to do with the very REAL problems that you mention. And THAT is where the focus should be, re-opening the govt to get those programs back in operation.

[TwilightGardener]

30. Oh Christ. It's not a SHOW, it's a CONSEQUENCE. Only a Repub thinks Obama's making a show

out of fucking Mt. Vernon and monuments. THOSE THINGS ARE NOT AS IMPORTANT AS OTHER THINGS, WHEN FUNDING IS HALTED. And I'll reiterate: if there's federal land or federal property, someone in the federal government is indeed responsible for overseeing it. If they can't oversee it, it gets shuttered. I don't get your point at all. And edit to add: The Obama administration is allowing states to open and operate national parks and monuments at states' expense. So your point is really out the window.

[7962]

36. Actually that proves my point. Theyre letting the states foot the bill on those sites,

why close sites that have NO cost to the govt and have been paying their own way? Just the fact that something sits on federal land doesnt mean theres someone "federal" overseeing it. There's nothing TO oversee.
And again, I agree with you, the other things are MUCH MUCH more important.

[TwilightGardener]

37. It's funding. That's my entire point. If someone else steps up to run the site at their

expense and legal risk, the federal government is letting them. So there's no show--just a lack of funding to operate, run, protect, administer, or oversee. Oh, and yeah--every bit of federal property certainly falls under some federal entity or another to oversee it. How could it be otherwise?

[7962]

39. My own example shows how.

I have a lease on federal land, along with several other people. It is accessed by a dirt road from the state highway. In the lease you sign, you accept responsibility for all maintenance of the road and the property and must have liability insurance to cover you if you bring anyone out there with you. We all send a check to the govt yearly for the lease. We haven't been told we cant go to the river and fish. There is no cost to the govt for us to be there.
Or maybe they just havent gotten to us yet!
I'm sure that the parks I mentioned, among others, also have accepted responsibility for maintaining their property as well.

[Kingofalldems]

25. Geez not this again. What evidence do you have of your assertion

'the closings are a load of crap used to solidify the public opinion of the gop.' Waiting.

[7962]

31. You dont need to wait, just read my posts. Its very simple.

The only reason to close places that have NO govt employees and use NO federal money is because it will piss people off. They already blame the GOPers, why take a chance on this backfiring on you?
They allowed the big immigration rally just the other day with no problem. Why didn't that get shut down? Any gathering could be considered free speech, right?
Do I have an email from the NPS saying "close this down, it'll make the gop look worse"? Of course not. Nor do I need one. Its obvious. I just dont like game playing. Let THEM do that, like they're doing now with the closure. Its a game to them. And they'll pay the price next year, IMO. Let THEM look like the children.

[Kingofalldems]

40. Here's my reply with links:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017152153

Looks like you are siding with Palin/Cruz to me. They also blame Obama.

[7962]

41. My examples use no federal money or personnel

Therefore no need to force them to close.
And I dont really think Obama is the one who made these decisions, I'm sure he probably didn't suggest it at all.
About the only thing I agree with Palin about is that this is America. And she probably had to Google THAT!

[Kingofalldems]

27. So what does that have to do with the fact these confederates

weren't arrested?

[Emelina]

33. Agreed. It is childish to close off park access.

Just let people visit, but lock up the toilets maybe, but come on...if someone wants to visit a memorial or go jogging.

[TwilightGardener]

35. I too think the GOP is childish for closing off park access.

Glad we agree.

[LanternWaste]

43. I imagine many people will rationalize a non-binding exception for the services and grounds they the

I imagine many people will rationalize and justify a non-binding exception for the services and grounds they themselves want open. And before long, everything would be exempt.


"OK, I'll bend over now and take my punishment.." Your self-imposed martyrdom, while noted, is ineffectual and a bit melodramatic.

[7962]

44. 17K posts and you've never felt the wrath of those here who disagree with you?

I think the Snowden threads showed a lot of it. For whats supposed to be a compassionate group, I've seen a lot of vicious stuff here over the past years.

[bluedeathray]

13. Yeah! Pepper spray for all

Or was it justice for all?

I forget. Damn, ever since moving to Colorado...

[cali]

16. and just where did anyone suggest pepper spray?

oh, that's right. you're just making shit up.

[bluedeathray]

20. Nope. Refering to UC Davis protest

As opposed to the distinct lack of police involvement with the DC protest at the Veterans Memorial.

Not trying to jack the thread. Was just expanding the discussion.

*And as shown in reply #6.

[SHRED]

17. check out the comments section if you have a strong stomach

[Adrahil]

19. We're playing chess. not checkers....

It might feel good to nail the nutbags now, but it's in our best interests to look like the calm adults in the room.

[G_j]

38. I read a number of comments, big mistake

like drinking poison.. Scary!

Do we realize that WE are the scapegoats of their hate? The "left"? is portrayed as the enemy by Rush etc. to a bunch of angry gun loving psychos. And we are the ones who get arrested for peacefully demonstrating, not the ones who openly call for overthrowing the government.
We are the ones who try to make democracy work.

So do we get it yet? Despite everything the TP is doing to destroy government and people, they are many steps above us in the treatment they receive from law enforcement or the media.

it's scary

[gopiscrap]

42. God I have been asking that since Sunday