If we default, when do Social Security checks stop coming?

[AmBlue]

Is it immediate? People need to know. Maybe the impending shitstorm of furious seniors will make them think twice about allowing default. Then again, maybe not.

But people still need to know.

[MindMover]

1. It has been estimated that on the 23rd of Oct....SS will no longer pay ..

and teabagger Repug chaos will reign ...

[Blue_In_AK]

66. Wonderful.

That's when I get mine.

[geek tragedy]

2. No SS checks on November 1 nt

[kentuck]

6. That is my understanding also.

There is no money after that date.

[Liberalynn]

17. So we will get Oct check just not any after this until they raise debt limit?

[geek tragedy]

18. Nothing after Thursday is guaranteed. nt

[Liberalynn]

21. gotcha

[Butterbean]

55. Thanks for this info. My parents were asking this very question

this weekend. At least now I have some sort of answer to give them so they know.

[RebelOne]

36. My check is due tomorrow.

I really hate to think that this will the last one for a while. I had been planning to move to my son's and his wife's house in January, but it looks like it may be sooner. I have a few thousand in the bank for emergencies, but I do not want to use it if possible.

[Liberalynn]

44. My thoughts are with you. I hope this all works out somehow for everyone.

I hate what the Pukers are doing to this country but most especially to those people who deserve better and who are caught in this mess through no fault of their own.

[RebelOne]

57. Thanks, and I am hoping it works out by the deadline. n/t

[pipi_k]

48. According to this...

Social Security recipients will probably not be affected...

(See #4 near the bottom of the linked page)

http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-09-2013/how-government-shutdown-would-affect-you.html

[geek tragedy]

50. that's shutdown, not default nt

[pipi_k]

52. Here is the title

and subtitle of the article...

How the Government Shutdown May Impact You

What the federal budget battles, spending cuts and possible default on the national debt could do to Social Security, Medicare and more

I see shutdown

I see default



PS...see number 14 about missed SS payments

[geek tragedy]

53. From the last page of the article

14. Would Social Security payments be delayed if the debt limit isn't raised?
Social Security has never missed a payment, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. When Congress threatened to let the Treasury default in 2011, AARP sent a letter to the president insisting that Social Security payments should "continue to be made regardless of congressional action to raise the debt ceiling."

[pipi_k]

54. I posted the same

thing before seeing this.

But anyway, while the article says it's not impossible, people are acting like it's a done deal, scaring the holy bejeesus out of others when it clearly states that it's never happened before.

And probably won't.


You know, I come here for news, just like a lot of others do. Hyperbole and Chicken Little-ism isn't "news".

It would have been nice for someone to actually look it up and see that it didn't happen before and maybe help others who are absolutely sick over it feel at least somewhat better.

[TBF]

3. Seniors should be calling their reps -

let them know you are unhappy with this.

[RebelOne]

37. I live in Georgia and my reps do not give a damn. n/t

[AmBlue]

41. Doesn't matter if they want to hear it or not.

It's their job to hear from their constituents.

[Liberalynn]

45. Aren't the lines not being answered due to the shut down?

[PoliticAverse]

4. Assuming default would be on the 17th, the next SS payments aren't due until the 23rd..

See: http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/calendar2013.pdf

[SheilaT]

43. Thank you for that link.

I'm not yet on social security, and I'd been a bit puzzled by various people here posting different dates for their ss check. Now I know when mine will come when I do start, probably next year some time.

[pinto]

5. I think Soc Sec will be able to draw on their trust fund to meet October / November payments.

The money is already there. Unless there's some provision that precludes that. i.e. I'm not sure.

[Trekologer]

7. The trust fund is mostly T-bills, IIRC

No debt ceiling increase, no Social Security checks going out.

[pinto]

13. Yeah, that's where the funds are invested. I'm unclear on whether they can be cashed out or not.

Apparently not. I've heard about one large corporation cashing out their T bill assets to hold and reinvest after this all gets resolved.

[rurallib]

25. can't cash in a bond if there is no cash to pay it with

I have heard most of the checks are cut on the 23rd. No money, no checks.

This is another thing Repubs wanted - broke seniors coming back to the workforce and enlarging the labor pool that in turn drives wages down. It is one of their wet dreams.

[onyourleft]

46. What...

...jobs?

[rurallib]

62. yep

[Sgent]

33. Social Security Bonds

are non-negotiable -- they cannot be sold on the open market. Banks, etc. can sell their bonds (at a loss) to other investors, who then take on the risk of default.

[pinto]

35. So Soc. Sec. bonds remain in escrow or on hold in the event of a default?

[Sgent]

37. Essenitally

The US Government will still owe them the money, but not interest, and will not be paying it -- the same as any other bond holders.

The difference is that if I currently own $1,000,000 of treasury bills coming due in two weeks, I can sell them for (making up a number) 995,000 to someone else. I'm out 5K, but I'm protected. That person pay get the full value in 2 weeks, or may not see any money for 6 months. Even then, he could sell them to yet another party on down the line. Also, any bonds held after default will cease earning interest.

Social Security owned treasuries are non-transferable, so the social security trust fund has to sit on them until cashed by the treasury.

[pinto]

47. Thanks.

[econoclast]

61. Existing debt including SS bonds constitutionally guaranteed

Section four of the fourteenth amendment REQUIRES that the existing debt be paid.

Reading the historical background of section four clearly indicates that the amendment was designed to (1) extinguish forever all debts incurred by the Confederacy ... ie. if you loaned money to the Confederacy you were OFFICIALLY never getting paid. Period. (2) Guaranteeing that existing Federal (Union) debt HAD TO BE PAID. There was a fear that Senators/Congressmen from former Confederate States might try some "default" chicanery as retribution against the Union. So section 4 nipped that in the bud by Constitutionally GUARANTEEING the existing Federal debt.

So a default on the existing debt SHOULD be unconstitutional under section 4.

Re US treasuries held by SSTF
These SHOULDN'T be a problem. Why? Because if the SSTF has a cash shortfall they redeem some of their existing bonds. The act of redemption REDUCES the debt by the amount redeemed .... Thereby making some room under the debt ceiling and allowing the Treasury to issue a like amount of NEW bonds to raise the cash to give to the SSTF.

This process is debt-neutral. ie it doesn't end up increasing the outstanding debt so it could be done without breaching the debt ceiling.

Moreover, the debt held by the SSTF should be guaranteed by section 4 of the 14th amendment.

[ohheckyeah]

8. If the Republicans think their

ratings are bad now, wait until the elderly and disabled don't receive checks. There is going to be some hell raising going on.

[libdem4life]

9. There are also a lot of minors getting benefits due to deceased or disabled parents. Shame.

[ohheckyeah]

11. True that....

and there are a lot of people who absolutely depend on their disability and retirement checks and have no backup. It will be a clusterfuck of epic proportions.

[ScreamingMeemie]

49. Thank you!

[TBF]

56. And Paul Ryan was once one of them -

how quickly he has forgotten how he got along when his father died.

[libdem4life]

58. Oh, I'd forgotten that. Probably got low-interest college loans and grants. So did I, but that's

what made a Democrat of me ... straight out of a right wing home.

[RebelOne]

10. And I will be one of those raising hell.

Social Security is my only source of income.

[ohheckyeah]

12. I'll be raising hell...

my husband's Social Security is a major part of our income.

[ChiciB1]

26. I'm Sure The Idiots Of America Don't Even

understand what all of this means. We live on SS ourselves & money we saved is fading very quickly. We have some property for sale, BUT... oh well why even say it!!

[rurallib]

27. major portion of ours also

[G_j]

14. there are going to be a lot of people who can't pay their rent

..including me. Luckily I think my landlord will be compassionate, because becoming homeless in the winter isn't a good thing..

[Buns_of_Fire]

23. My landlord would understand and cut me some slack if necessary.

The town (water) and electric company, probably not so much.

[G_j]

28. yep

not so fortuitous in the winter either..

[ecstatic]

15. Hopefully, seniors will be furious regardless

Everyone should be furious. The "as long as I got mine, fck you" mentality is what has led to this moment in the first place.

[Liberalynn]

19. I am furious

I have been furious since the tea pukers came about and furious at anyone I know who actually voted for the assholes.

[Liberalynn]

16. I am worried about Medicare will my doctor visits still be covered if we default?

I have an appointment next week.

[Buns_of_Fire]

20. If this comes to pass, the Teabilly Representatives might as well stay in Washington

until the whole clusterf**k is resolved. I'd wager that they'd probably be a lot safer there than in their own districts.

They sure as hell wouldn't be holding any "town hall" meetings, that's for sure.

[lamp_shade]

22. Mine comes tomorrow. THANK GOD!!!

[ChiciB1]

29. Ours Is Due Next Wednesday!

Are we going to be the generation that has to "borrow" from our own children to make ends meet?? We can probably hang in for a couple of months, but this is not a place I ever imagined myself parking my butt!

SICK!

[Liberalynn]

30. mine is due next Wed too

my sis lent me money just in case but I can't keep letting her do that. It's not fair to her.

[ChiciB1]

63. Well, As I Said, I Can Hold Out

for a little while. We have some money saved, but not much at all. And THAT money is money we put aside for real emergencies! Paying my regular bills SHOULD NOT be considered a REAL emergency!

My 2 children keep telling us we don't have to worry because we have always been there when they needed monetary help. And yes, they were helped with a lot of our savings to enable them to make down payments when they bought their homes and money for their education. Thankfully it was money well spent, but there is NO WAY I, as a parent can feel comfortable taking money from them right now. In time they will be able to pay some back, but right now they are struggling too. My daughter got her masters degree as an ARNP last year, but she has 2 children attending college right now. Their student loans are extensive.

And yes, they were given opportunities to further their education but we want them to be successful. However, right now they too are feeling the same economic pinch that millions of Americans are. My husband & I worked all our lives and my husband was fortunate to have had a UNION job. But even with that we were never more than a middle class family.

I'm thankful that we've been able to weather the storm until now. So, as the time ticks away we are beginning to feel we're about to hit bottom.

THIS IS not the country I was once so proud of. I feel nothing but shame right now, and I don't understand this insanity!

I feel so bad for all that have suffered so much already and worry even more that so many of us could very well be become another one that "bites the dust!"

What more can I say... SHAMEFUL!

[Liberalynn]

67. Totally agree with you that what is going on is SHAMEFUL!

It is so sad what this Country has come too. It needs to change but I am loosing hope daily that it can change.

Going to keep going, keep speaking out, and keep voting though because I don't know what else to do.

[lamp_shade]

31. Oy! Not good. I'll cross my fingers for you.

[Liberalynn]

32. Thank you.

[ChiciB1]

64. Thanks From Me Too!

I can't explain how weird this feeling is. But for sure... it's scary!

[RebelOne]

40. Mine too. And it worries me that it may be the last one for a while. n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

51. Mine is tomorrow too.

[Liberalynn]

24. The Tea Pukers won't care if the seniors complain

Can't remember who it was but a reporter on MSNBC was saying that a lot of Boners' wealthy friends were pressuring him to make a deal with Dems and they said he is no longer listening to them.

The Pukes in the house think they are beyond everyone now and they aren't hearing anything outside their own little fantasy world.

[abelenkpe]

39. I dunno

Every picture I see of teaparty protests is filled with seniors. I'd think they'd be upset if they miss their SS payments. It will be interesting to see how they spin that as something caused by democrats and not by teaparty/republicans. But they will!
If my parents complain about missing their SS I plan to point out they want younger generations to not get them at all. Not that it would get through to them....they love the shutdown. Want more cuts and salivate at the idea of impeaching the president high on the teaparty rhetoric. They used to be reasonable. My mother was a democrat when I was growing up. I blame FOX news for their descent into insanity.

[Liberalynn]

42. I think you are right about Fox

it has caused a whole segment of our population to become brainwashed and mentally deranged.

[abelenkpe]

34. For my teabagger parents?

Hopefully today.

For everyone else hopefully never. Really, why do people who didn't vote for the fools who relish shutdown and default be made to suffer?

[1-Old-Man]

59. Now people will understand that there is no "Trust Fund", and that most of the debt is owed to SS

When they talk about the national debt, not the deficit but the debt, it should be understood that it is not the Chinese who own most of it, as many a politician would have you believe. Nope. Most of the debt is owed to us by virtue of the fact that every dime that the Social Security Administration takes in is handed over to provide the first funding source for the expenditures of Government an in return gets the bonds that constitute their holding of the public debt. So the first problem here is the myth of the lock-box, the 'trust fund' that no longer exists. Well, if it did exist we would not have even half the level of debt we have today and there would be no question about social security checks going out in November or any other month.

[econoclast]

60. Should be NO default on existing debt

Section four of the fourteenth amendment REQUIRES that the existing debt be paid.

Reading the historical background of section four clearly indicates that the amendment was designed to (1) extinguish forever all debts incurred by the Confederacy ... ie. if you loaned money to the Confederacy you were OFFICIALLY never getting paid. Period. (2) Guaranteeing that existing Federal (Union) debt HAD TO BE PAID. There was a fear that Senators/Congressmen from former Confederate States might try some "default" chicanery as retribution against the Union. So section 4 nipped that in the bud by Constitutionally GUARANTEEING the existing Federal debt.

So a default on the existing debt SHOULD be unconstitutional under section 4.

Re US treasuries held by SSTF
These SHOULDN'T be a problem. Why? Because if the SSTF has a cash shortfall they redeem some of their existing bonds. The act of redemption REDUCES the debt by the amount redeemed .... Thereby making some room under the debt ceiling and allowing the Treasury to issue a like amount of NEW bonds to raise the cash to give to the SSTF.

This process is debt-neutral. ie it doesn't end up increasing the outstanding debt so it could be done without breaching the debt ceiling.

Moreover, the debt held by the SSTF should be guaranteed by section 4 of the 14th amendment.

[geomon666]

65. Looks like I'll be homeless soon. n/t