OK Mr. President--- What is the contingency plan?

[trumad]

You are the most powerful man in the world. You cannot allow the American people to be held captives by 30 to 40 radicals.

We have your back Mr. President...do what you must.

[Lobo27]

1. At this point, to hell with everything!!!

Use the 14th and after lets see where the dust settles. They already hate him, what are they gonna hate him more?

[questionseverything]

15. the problem with using the 14th is

it shows "we" can not govern ourselves,proves the tea party would default on our obligations and that does not inspire confidence in our t bills....and we need to sell t bills to keep the economy moving

[Motown_Johnny]

24. It can be done after we default.

If things do get really bad, it would be seen as a last resort. If it is done before the actual default it could be seen as an overreach.

[questionseverything]

32. we must not default

we "export" dollars thru the fed...we need to remain the preferred currency of the world

i am not saying O does not have the authority to use the 14th...i am saying it will still hurt the economy....i am just paraphrasing what Pres said himself

[jtuck004]

52. We are only the "preferred" currency because of the momentum of the

past. This has fuck-all to do with it.

How long can a nation of hamburger servers and bedsheet changers which borrows far more than it makes while investing piddly amounts if any in its infrastructure and the training of its citizens, who happen to be owned by 20 or so major corporations that define how they will live their lives and die, stay the "preferred currency"?

It's a lot of noise, like religion, designed to distract the masses so they won't think about leaving the plantation.

[Heather MC]

59. +1

Wow you let some truth slip out!!!

[davidwparker]

62. +2

... for all but calling religion "noise."

[questionseverything]

67. a lot of noise....

it is what it is.....and we are more than hamburger servers and sheet changers........we are the ones that prop up the economy with consumer spending,,,,that is important to the 1% that wants to sell our dollar all over the world,it is actually the power of the 99 because no country can be the "preferred" currency without a functioning citizenship


leaving the plantation...and going where?

we have this little experiment of self governance,are there problems? yes but theoretically it can be fixed

[jtuck004]

68. "I freed a thousand slaves I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

WHY, if the economy is so great, do we need to "prop it up"? Typically we only do that for things that are broken. Why would it need to be "fixed" if it is not broken?

We don't need to "go" anywhere, we can be free where we are, if we choose to be. Instead of crying and begging for scraps of medical care, we arrange for our own. Instead of serving the interests of oil barons and greedy industrialists we quit making unnecessary wars on people whose current government isn't playing their game. Instead of millions of people working for less than living wages in fast food restaurants we fix our food supply and tell China, and everyone else, that we will be making our own stuff now. We begin to re-educate our citizenry for citizenship like we used to do, before it fell out of favor to teach people with historical accuracy who their friends and enemies really are. And instead of suffering under the greatest income inequality in our history, we change it and let the greedy bastards see how they fare elsewhere if they don't like it.

We had a period between 1865 when workers in Industrial Unions worked and died for the right to manage their own lives, before government and business and the Business Unions conspired against them to destroy their movement toward democracy. We can organize that again, teach what freedom and the responsibilities that go with it really means. 'Course, that means more people will have to grow a spine and resist people who say they are on their side while consorting with the goals of the enemy, but it has happened before. Just maybe the people aren't as stupid as they think.

When the experiment is burning down your lab, it is time to note the results and change the parameters, else it may be the last experiment you ever do.

[questionseverything]

71. i honestly can not tell what policy you are advocating

you said,

WHY, if the economy is so great, do we need to "prop it up"? Typically we only do that for things that are broken. Why would it need to be "fixed" if it is not broken? "

i did not say the economy was great but since 1913,and the creation of the fed, selling dollars has been the game plan and since i believe in working within the system we have i understand consumers are the key to the economy moving .....thru our system of government ,"we the people" need to extract better conditions from the fed


you said,

We don't need to "go" anywhere, we can be free where we are, if we choose to be. Instead of crying and begging for scraps of medical care, we arrange for our own

fifty years ago that was possible but with costs skyrocketing no one can "arrange" for surgery and other expensive treatments....single payer and limiting costs is the only reasonable way to go

you said,

we quit making unnecessary wars on people whose current government isn't playing their game.

there i agree completely

wages are not as much the problem as that there is no real help for people making those low wages,subsidized housing,food stamps,programs that help with energy costs need to be expanded not ended...for example i have no problem with farmers receiving subsidies as long as they feed America first,if a wealthy farmer gets subsidies why shouldnt every American get food stamps? every dollar spent on food stamps creates 1.79 worth of gdp...those are jobs being created for the middle man that brings that food to my cart

making our own stuff...well about 30 years ago environmentalist slowed the growth of industry with needed protections,china did not slow industry with protections and now children in china are playing under tarps to keep the pollution out...the plants being built now(car plants) are much more eco friendly and i think one of the best things current admin did was to bail gm out and save the manufacturing base we have left....we have work to do finding the best balance there

as for income inequality.....raise the death tax rate.....there is no fairer time to tax a person than upon their death..the dead guy will never miss it and his heirs have already had every possible advantage

[jtuck004]

72. People preaching from the corner of "Denial" and "Head Stuck in the Sand" often talk of

working within the system. But the system is hurting two hundred million Americans to benefit only a handful, and that is wrong.

Oh, wages really ARE the problem, but they are low because we, as a country, have enabled the wealthy to borrow against our lives, and pocket the proceeds at little or no cost. You talk of subsidies, but from where? Magic? Teleported from another dimension? This FED you seem to think so highly of...well, this fella says it better:

If “full employment” is anything under 5% unemployment and “price stability” is core inflation below the Fed’s 2% target rate then the Fed has achieved its dual mandate a whopping 3.5% of the time since 1957 when core inflation was first tracked. Yes, you read that right. THREE POINT FIVE PERCENT OF THE TIME.* That means the Fed has failed to simultaneously achieve both its mandates 96.5% of the time. I wouldn’t call that failure. I’d say they’re not even trying. And maybe they’re not?
...
I honestly don’t understand why we obsess over the Fed hitting its “dual mandate”. It seems to me that the Fed is really just a bank servicing entity masquerading as something that can do much more than its history proves it’s capable of. To those of us who understand the monetary system it’s obvious that the Fed really has one mandate – make sure the banks are healthy. So maybe we should stop pretending the Fed is capable of achieving things it really can’t – like its dual mandate.

Here

Over the past 8 years or so we have loaned trillions of dollars to the banks to disappear bad debt, (i.e. put it on the taxpayers back) from which the banks have profited to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars, which they pocketed. Even today we are buying over a trillion dollars worth of paper every year (85 billion a month) which primarily benefits the wealthy. (They say it is to support the housing market, yet 10 million families have been tossed into the street, with millions more awaiting their turn - I have a hard time figuring out how THAT benefits THEM). Today the FED is the prime driver in keeping alive the criminal conspiracy described by Bill Black, who actually put people in prison for such actions, run by the Wall Street Investment Bankers (with the tacit approval of the party they donated heavily to in 2007-8 - that's public record if you care to look), the bankers who brought us the largest financial crisis in decades, and the FEDS "solution" has been to keep the banks healthy at the expense of most of the people who don't have anything, while propping up the assets of those who have the most. Which is why economic inequality is, quite literally, worse than it ever has been in the history of this country.

Most of that is due to finance, a little tool that developed around the time of Reagan, when Carter told us we needed to put our big boy pants on and act like adults, quit consuming so much, drive our inflation down and get our house in order. People said "fuck you", elected Regan, and the race to see how much debt we could accumulate before the house of cards falls was on.

Now it's teetering. We now borrow more than we make. And your solution is to make more money out of thin air to subsidize people while we keep this train heading in the same direction?

Here's a thought. Turn off the tap. Stop enabling the corps to hide their money overseas, quit making it so easy for them to trample on the lives of us and our neighbors by making financing so easy for them to get. Instead make smaller loans to more people, remove tuition at state colleges, put people to work rebuilding our infrastructure, and, most of all...

Grow a spine, stand up and tell people that they cannot consume their way to success any longer, lest we all die. Tell people that the reason the Mi$$ RobMes of the world are doing so well is because the government is enabling their empires at the expense of the people who now must survive on food stamps, a number that has increased by millions since this presidency began. That supporting the increase in homes owned by landlords while ownership by families has dropped to levels not seen in decades while the population has increased by another 10 million people is just bad policy. Oh, and quit making excuses and blaming someone else for that - act like the responsible party we keep accusing others of not being and fix it.

We need a plan to live in a no-growth world, not more debt to keep pretending we are living in the world of a hundred years ago, debt which far and away benefits the wealthy, and enslaves the borrowers. We need to subsidize and invest in the things that enrich ordinary American lives, not support people with half a dozen homes and hidden trillions in foreign banks which they sustain by underpaying their employees.

La Boetie told us that we didn't need to raise a hand against the tyrant, just quit supporting him and he would fall of his own weight. That's as true today as it ever has been.

[questionseverything]

73. i am not a big fan of the fed

but it does control the system we live under and frankly i am not ready for the bottom to fall out

it is odd that you rally against fractured interest on one hand and then worry about that "debt" on the other...afterall when the fed pumps 85 billion a month into t bills,we are just getting our money back (i know the fed would not see it this way but i do)

i gave you a list of ideas that would make average lives better,i think we still can improve things within our system

[questionseverything]

74. economic hitman part 2

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017152372

i understand what we are up against but lacking our own incorruptible leader,anything that makes life better for the 99 is worthwhile

[jtuck004]

76. "...we are just getting our money back..." - Only if by we you mean Jamie Dimon,

Michael Corbat, that ilk. Because I guarantee the 50 million people on food stamps or the 100 million around and under 200% of the poverty line or the now 10 million families that have been foreclosed out of their homes aren't getting jack - except for the bill.

Think what you want - there are whole political parties using that to justify their behavior, and many people are reduced to hanging on by a thread because of it.

[davidwparker]

61. Not following.

I just read the 14th Amendment.

It restates that US debt cannot be discharged and will be honored -- excluding some things dealing with foreign banks who gave money to the Confederacy to undermine the Union.

Wikipedia commentary mentioned a debt ceiling as it related to 2011, but this doesn't get mentioned in the Constitution itself. It did say the Court would most likely side with the Executive, since this Court is all about expanding the President's powers.

[questionseverything]

66. i agree invoking the 14th is legal

but it is not the best option

[Mr.Bill]

2. He doesn't need to do anything.

Never interfere with the opposition when it is destroying itself.

[progressoid]

6. But they're also destroying America.

[phantom power]

20. This fight had to be fought. It's *always* been about who receives the blame.

Either the GOP (appropriately) gets blamed, in which case they take an enormous political beating, or... we do.

Happily, it looks like so far the bulk of the public is correctly blaming the GOP. Most of the ones who aren't reside in the 25% of the hardcore Right who aren't ever going to support left-wing politics anyway.

[Motown_Johnny]

27. Just like every other day.

What is your point?

[progressoid]

39. I'm all for the self-destruction of the GOP

But this is more than just politics. There are a lot of people's lives on the line here.

http://www.examiner.com/article/snap-food-stamps-could-be-cut-off-for-thanksgiving

[Motown_Johnny]

53. I know, but if we don't hold the line here

then the same people will be in trouble the next time the (R)s decide to pull this crap again. The difference being that if we cave this time then they will have more bargaining power the next time around.

Better now than later, err.. well.. not as terrible now as later.

[davidwparker]

64. +1

[progressoid]

70. To be clear, I don't want us to cave (again).

Just expressing disdain for how the GOP is fucking all of us, not just their party image.

[davidwparker]

63. It's all about the democracy.

It is majority rules, not baggers rule.

J-Bone can't control them. Let the baggers take that rabid party down as O holds the line for what we voted for; for what they voted on, etc. "Obamacare" is Law now, and upheld by the Court.

Lots of people have, and still do, loose things to defend democracy.

[pocoloco]

65. Every time in the past that the Dems wimped out

they destroyed a little bit of America themselves!

[progressoid]

69. Make no mistake, I'm not advocating wimping out.

Just lamenting the damage the GOP is doing.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

3. jump on the TV and remind people again what the GOP is doing to us

oh, and then call in the national guard to clear the Tea Party stain out of "the People's House".

[phantom power]

7. +oo

[Pretzel_Warrior]

9. oh...guessing that's infinity? lol.

[phantom power]

12. yep. maybe I shouldn't assume that's clear...

[DireStrike]

16. Alt+236

The character won't appear in DU subject lines but it does appear in the text box.

∞∞∞

[2naSalit]

8. Hear, hear!!

[BluegrassStateBlues]

10. I would stand, cheer and salute the flag to see these fuckwits removed from the floor

in handcuffs.

[dixiegrrrrl]

22. Use the military to remove elected Congress members?

You cannot see why that would be a problem?

[Pretzel_Warrior]

26. and yes....I was being serious about that, right?

think. think. of course I know he can't and wouldn't do that. It just pleases me to visualize it.

[PADemD]

47. The President is the Commander in Chief of the military who took the Oath of Allegiance

Oath of Allegiance (United States)
I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Allegiance_%28United_States%29

[dixiegrrrrl]

49. Uh, no.

What you posted is the Oath of Alligence that immigrants take upon being granted citizenship.

the President take The Oath of Office, which is:

“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_office_of_the_President_of_the_United_States

[PADemD]

50. Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines state the Oath of Allegiance

Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines state the Oath of Allegiance at a Citizenship ceremony at Camp Liberty, Iraq in 2009

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flickr_-_DVIDSHUB_-_Watchdog_Becomes_%27out_of_Many,_One%27.jpg

[frogmarch]

40. Yes! And

by all means, haul - make that frogmarch - their sorry teabagger asses out of there!

[oldhippie]

46. One of the first things you learn as a military officer .....

.... is to never give an order that you know will not be obeyed. President Obama was never in the military, but I am sure someone has whispered this in his ear.

oh, and then call in the national guard to clear the Tea Party stain out of "the People's House".

[BluegrassStateBlues]

4. Even using my wildest imagination, I can't imagine a scenario I wouldn't accept. nt

[Autumn]

5. It's my hope that today he is sitting back just enjoying their

desperation. After they go off the cliff he can do what he has to do.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

11. A speech at around noon tomorrow,

if the House doesn't get on board with the Senate would be called for. It needs to be a fire breathing speech. No questions from the press.
One o'clock would be better, now that I'm thinking about it. That would make it noon in the Midwest, so you'd get the most people possible on their lunch break from work, able to watch it.

[Progressive dog]

13. He doesn't need one

There is nothing that he can do, we are being held hostage by people that were elected in a democracy.

[flamingdem]

14. Don't dump this on him

Obama is just one lone human being.

Why should he put himself into the firing line?

[NightWatcher]

17. this is the job of CONGRESS to pay the bills and spend the $$$

They are unable to function after having to check with the TeaBaggers for every little thing.

[geek tragedy]

18. Reid passes our bill in the Senate, and jams it up the House's rear end. nt

[dixiegrrrrl]

25. ALL spending bills have to originate in teh House

The Senate's role is one of concurrence; it is not able to (lawfully) initiate spending.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

29. clearly not true. Senate passed the CR and was trying to get House to do likewise.

and I believe poster was referring to Senate passing a debt limit bill--not a revenue bill. That definitely doesn't need to come from the house.

[dixiegrrrrl]

56. As I was saying, to the person who posted the comment.

REVENUE bills come from the House.
If the poster to whom I was addressing my remark WAS talking about a debt limit bill,
then of course the Senate can produce whatever non-revenue generating bill it wishes
but it STILL has to go to the House at some point.

[geek tragedy]

31. Remember all of those mini-CRs where the House tried to open part of the

government?

Reid can take one of those up, amend it, and send it back at the House Rs.

Vote would be Thursday if they pull it off.

[Blue Idaho]

19. Instead of Social Security Checks

Insert a half sheet of paper in the envelope with "This economic disaster brought to you by the GOP." printed on it.

[dixiegrrrrl]

28. 'cept those "checks" are now direct deposits

or debit cards..paper checks stopped as of Jan. 1 this year.

[Blue Idaho]

30. Damn you and your awesome grasp on reality!

There's goes another pipe dream up in smoke!

[dixiegrrrrl]

36. I'm sorry.....

sucks to be me sometimes.....

[Blue Idaho]

38. No! Thanks for the info!

I learned something new today...

[mostlyconfused]

60. I think the SS payments still go out, as do medicare, and interest on the debt.

Doesn't the law compel the treasury to pay the interest on the debt first, after that SS and medicare. But with the debt ceiling not raised, spending has to be cut from other areas in order to meet those obligations first. How much pain will that cause?

[Motown_Johnny]

21. Ya can't blink now. It is almost over.

Will they really shoot the hostage?

Only one way to find out.


It does seem that some of them think it is OK to shoot the hostage because it will take time to bleed out. Well, if this is what they choose to do then you can't really stop them. All you could possibly do is give them what they want so that they make the same threat again next time, and ask for a larger ransom.

At this point we need to ride it out. There is a "compromise" that the leaders agreed to. Either they pass it or they don't.

[ananda]

23. One word for the Reeps and Teapers:

Proceed.

[alarimer]

33. Why does he not go on TV and use that bully pulpit to call these assholes out?

I mean call them out on national TV in no uncertain terms.

"This is the Republicans' fault. Because they are a bunch of reckless crybabies who take their toys and go home when they won't get their way. I'm sick of it; you are sick of it. And it's time they grow up."

Or words to that effect. But strong words, much stronger than he usually uses.

[Hutzpa]

34. Sounds like teahadist wants to play chicken

Fuck them..

Maybe reading a list of names that are holding the country hostage will do the trick.

The president is in a win win position because all he has to do is watch them fuck themselves up, eventually
they'll have to pay for what they've done to this country.

[regnaD kciN]

35. Under our system of government, THERE ISN'T ONE…

Asking for PBO to come up with some miraculous cure is only buying into the Teapublican meme that "the President could avoid the default, if he really wanted to" -- which is the rationale they will use to call for HIS impeachment after THEY force the country into default.

Besides, even the unusual methods proposed (like the trillion-dollar coin, declaring the debt limit unconstitutional, and so on) wouldn't stave off the damage in the international financial community, which needs to see us regain a stable process of paying our debts, not gimmicks to keep from defaulting. And, while it would be emotionally-satisfying to see Obama enact those state-of-emergency powers demanded by Dubya, and ship the Tea-liban off to Gitmo, does anyone think we would avert any damage in the world economic community's eyes by doing so?

[Zorra]

37. Contingency plan execution has been delegated to the appropriate agency.

[wiggs]

41. Good time to change filibuster laws. Public would welcome any changes that

enhance functioning democracy. That helps the senate. Helps the problem of the House a little bit too because the crazy 50 won't have an ally in the senate that can filibuster anything into the ground. There will be bills that pass the senate and that will put additional pressure on the House to at least vote.

WRT the House, doesn't the president have the power to call congress into session? Can he keep them there until both houses agree on a plan that is signable?

Time to get out the big guns....without getting impeached.

[wiggs]

42. Also...can he not get a preliminary reading from SCOTUS on 14th amendment

feasibility?

[Hekate]

48. His legal advisors are over at the DOJ, if I understand correctly.

[steve2470]

43. He needs to make an address to the public in prime time from the Oval Office

Unless, of course, a deal is struck and crisis averted. The news media needs to stay on top of this non-stop and tell the complete facts for a change.

[blkmusclmachine]

44. Obama still insists he won't do anything without Republican's blessings?

[Hekate]

51. Not exactly what he's been saying. They just have to do their job so he can do his...

... and a big part of their job is to NOT blackmail him nor hold the country hostage. He's not giving in to blackmail -- that's hardly waiting for their "blessing."

[Eddie Haskell]

45. Agreed

Frog march the perps.

[Rebellious Republican]

54. Absolutely, well said!

Non sibi sed patriae is a Latin phrase meaning "Not for self, but for country". The phrase is inscribed over the chapel doors at the United States Naval Academy and some war memorials.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Og8qBJVcP8Q#t=35.

[OnyxCollie]

55. "We have your back Mr. President...do what you must."

...do what you must.

NATIONAL SECURITY PRESIDENTIAL DIRECTIVE/NSPD 51
http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nspd/nspd-51.htm

(2) In this directive:

~snip~

(b) "Catastrophic Emergency" means any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government functions;

~snip~

Policy

(3) It is the policy of the United States to maintain a comprehensive and effective continuity capability composed of Continuity of Operations and Continuity of Government programs in order to ensure the preservation of our form of government under the Constitution and the continuing performance of National Essential Functions under all conditions.

Implementation Actions

(4) Continuity requirements shall be incorporated into daily operations of all executive departments and agencies. As a result of the asymmetric threat environment, adequate warning of potential emergencies that could pose a significant risk to the homeland might not be available, and therefore all continuity planning shall be based on the assumption that no such warning will be received. Emphasis will be placed upon geographic dispersion of leadership, staff, and infrastructure in order to increase survivability and maintain uninterrupted Government Functions. Risk management principles shall be applied to ensure that appropriate operational readiness decisions are based on the probability of an attack or other incident and its consequences.

(5) The following NEFs are the foundation for all continuity programs and capabilities and represent the overarching responsibilities of the Federal Government to lead and sustain the Nation during a crisis, and therefore sustaining the following NEFs shall be the primary focus of the Federal Government leadership during and in the aftermath of an emergency that adversely affects the performance of Government Functions:

(a) Ensuring the continued functioning of our form of government under the Constitution, including the functioning of the three separate branches of government;

(b) Providing leadership visible to the Nation and the world and maintaining the trust and confidence of the American people;

(c) Defending the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and preventing or interdicting attacks against the United States or its people, property, or interests;

(d) Maintaining and fostering effective relationships with foreign nations;

(e) Protecting against threats to the homeland and bringing to justice perpetrators of crimes or attacks against the United States or its people, property, or interests;

(f) Providing rapid and effective response to and recovery from the domestic consequences of an attack or other incident;

(g) Protecting and stabilizing the Nation's economy and ensuring public confidence in its financial systems; and

(h) Providing for critical Federal Government services that address the national health, safety, and welfare needs of the United States.

(6) The President shall lead the activities of the Federal Government for ensuring constitutional government. In order to advise and assist the President in that function, the Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism (APHS/CT) is hereby designated as the National Continuity Coordinator. The National Continuity Coordinator, in coordination with the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs (APNSA), without exercising directive authority, shall coordinate the development and implementation of continuity policy for executive departments and agencies. The Continuity Policy Coordination Committee (CPCC), chaired by a Senior Director from the Homeland Security Council staff, designated by the National Continuity Coordinator, shall be the main day-to-day forum for such policy coordination.

...

The President has the authority to detain a US citizen indefinitely.

The President has the authority to put a US citizen on a kill list for assassination, based only on suspicion of terrorism.

The President has the authority to become a dictator.

[Submariner]

57. How about a "Signing Statement"

If I recall correctly, Bush signed "Signing Statement" all the time, about 700+ of them.

Tell the teabaggers to f*ck off and issue a signing statement to prevent the country from going into default due to the rabid ignorance of many in the republican congress.

[delrem]

58. Not 30-40 radicals. The house majority of Republicans, unanimously or almost.

Don't let them get off by scapegoating a few. There are no "moderate Republicans".