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Better Believe It

(18,630 posts)
Tue Mar 6, 2012, 01:21 PM Mar 2012

ACLU Slams Obama Administration Claim It Can Kill Any American Who It Calls An Enemy of the State



NEWS RELEASE

ACLU Comment on Eric Holder Speech on Targeted Killing Program
March 5, 2012
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE[/b


NEW YORK – In a speech today at Northwestern University School of Law, Attorney General Eric Holder spoke on national security issues and addressed the government’s targeted killing program.

“While the speech is a gesture towards additional transparency, it is ultimately a defense of the government’s chillingly broad claimed authority to conduct targeted killings of civilians, including American citizens, far from any battlefield without judicial review or public scrutiny,” said Hina Shamsi, director of the American Civil Liberties Union’s National Security Project. “Few things are as dangerous to American liberty as the proposition that the government should be able to kill citizens anywhere in the world on the basis of legal standards and evidence that are never submitted to a court, either before or after the fact. Anyone willing to trust President Obama with the power to secretly declare an American citizen an enemy of the state and order his extrajudicial killing should ask whether they would be willing to trust the next president with that dangerous power.”

The ACLU has filed a lawsuit to enforce its Freedom of Information Act lawsuit seeking information about the targeted killing program, but the Justice Department and the CIA have responded to the request by saying they can neither confirm nor deny the existence of any records.

“The government has told the courts that its targeted killing program is so secret that even its existence can’t be acknowledged, but that proposition can no longer be taken seriously. If the attorney general can discuss the targeted killing program at a law school, then the administration can surely release the legal memos it uses to justify its claimed killing authority, and also defend its legal justifications in court,” Shamsi said. “The targeted killing program raises profound legal and moral questions that should be subjected to public debate, and constitutional questions that should be considered by the judiciary.”

More information about the ACLU’s FOIA lawsuit is available at:

www.aclu.org/national-security/anwar-al-awlaki-foia-request

http://www.aclu.org/national-security/aclu-comment-eric-holder-speech-targeted-killing-program
30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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ACLU Slams Obama Administration Claim It Can Kill Any American Who It Calls An Enemy of the State (Original Post) Better Believe It Mar 2012 OP
K&R The one percent own both parties. woo me with science Mar 2012 #1
The government can secretly label you a terrorist and not have to prove it before they kill you. Better Believe It Mar 2012 #2
Well, it's just the ACLU. Who cares about those whiny losers. BlueIris Mar 2012 #3
Ya .... they are always complaining about the Bill of Rights and other so-called freedoms. Better Believe It Mar 2012 #4
The ACLU just doesn't understand that killing people is good for a political campaign. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2012 #5
1984 nt Agony Mar 2012 #6
I would rephrase this: JDPriestly Mar 2012 #7
HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Mar 2012 #8
Oh, this is just alarmist alarmism gratuitous Mar 2012 #9
At least the "terrarists" can't hate us for our freedoms anymore. MNBrewer Mar 2012 #10
Love me some ACLU I just donated to them Vincardog Mar 2012 #11
I wonder what Holder said in his speech? Hard to say, since it's not in your post. Just the other Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #12
Here you go GeorgeGist Mar 2012 #13
That was already posted by someone else. Do you need a link? Better Believe It Mar 2012 #14
No, it wasn't. nt Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #21
It was a big news story and others posted on Holder's defense of killing without judicial process. Better Believe It Mar 2012 #24
wonder no more DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2012 #15
The link was provided, thanks to my asking for it. When reading a post on a subject... Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #22
i wonder what excuse you'll use to justify this frylock Mar 2012 #16
Why the personal attack? What in my post compelled you to personally attack? Asking for facts? Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #20
Here's my motive. I support and defend our Bill of Rights and Constitution. End of story. Better Believe It Mar 2012 #23
You're not the first to notice Bobbie Jo Mar 2012 #26
because there is no "other side of the story" as you so quaintly refer to it.. frylock Mar 2012 #27
There are two sides to the Bill of Rights. You can support them or oppose them. Better Believe It Mar 2012 #28
yep. this is one issue where there is no grey area frylock Mar 2012 #29
Kick woo me with science Mar 2012 #17
Kick woo me with science Mar 2012 #18
Kick woo me with science Mar 2012 #19
du rec. nt xchrom Mar 2012 #25
Kick woo me with science Mar 2012 #30
 

Better Believe It

(18,630 posts)
2. The government can secretly label you a terrorist and not have to prove it before they kill you.
Tue Mar 6, 2012, 01:37 PM
Mar 2012

That's democracy and transparency!
 

Better Believe It

(18,630 posts)
4. Ya .... they are always complaining about the Bill of Rights and other so-called freedoms.
Tue Mar 6, 2012, 01:44 PM
Mar 2012

What are we suppose to do, just allow terriorists to run all over the place a take over one state at a time?
 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
5. The ACLU just doesn't understand that killing people is good for a political campaign.
Tue Mar 6, 2012, 01:50 PM
Mar 2012

And, that winning, or keeping, office is far more important than a silly constitution and human rights.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
7. I would rephrase this:
Tue Mar 6, 2012, 02:18 PM
Mar 2012

Anyone willing to trust President Obama with the power to secretly declare an American citizen an enemy of the state and order his extrajudicial killing should ask whether they would be willing to trust the next president with that dangerous power.”

to read:

Anyone willing to trust President Obama with the power to secretly declare an American citizen an enemy of the state and order his extrajudicial killing should ask whether they would be willing to trust LEADERS OF OTHER COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD with that dangerous powers.

How about if Putin might have done it?

Alexander Litvinenko was a former officer of the Russian Federal Security Service, FSB and KGB, who escaped prosecution in Russia and received political asylum in the United Kingdom. He wrote two books, Blowing up Russia: Terror from within and Lubyanka Criminal Group, where he accused the Russian secret services of staging Russian apartment bombings and other terrorism acts to bring Vladimir Putin to power.

On 1 November 2006, Litvinenko suddenly fell ill and was hospitalized. He died three weeks later, becoming the first confirmed victim of lethal polonium-210-induced acute radiation syndrome.[1] According to doctors, "Litvinenko's murder represents an ominous landmark: the beginning of an era of nuclear terrorism".[2][3][4]

Litvinenko's allegations about the misdeeds of the FSB and his public deathbed accusations that Russian president Vladimir Putin were behind his unusual malady resulted in worldwide media coverage.[5]

Subsequent investigations by British authorities into the circumstances of Litvinenko's death led to serious diplomatic difficulties between the British and Russian governments. Unofficially, British authorities asserted that "we are 100% sure who administered the poison, where and how", but they did not disclose their evidence in the interest of a future trial. The main suspect in the case, a former officer of the Russian Federal Protective Service (FSO), Andrei Lugovoy, remains in Russia. As a member of the Duma, he now enjoys immunity from prosecution. Before he was elected to the Duma, the British government tried to extradite him without success.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko

What if maybe the Bulgarians had done this when they were Communists?

Georgi Ivanov Markov (Bulgarian: Георги Иванов Марков (March 1, 1929 – September 11, 1978) was a Bulgarian dissident writer.

Markov originally worked as a novelist and playwright, but in 1969 he defected from Bulgaria, then governed by President Todor Zhivkov. After relocating to the West, he worked as a broadcaster and journalist for the BBC World Service, the US-funded Radio Free Europe, and Germany's Deutsche Welle. Markov used such forums to conduct a campaign of criticism against the incumbent Bulgarian regime. As a result of this, it has been speculated that the Bulgarian government may have decided to silence him, and may have asked the KGB for help.[1] He died as a result of an incident on a London street when a micro-engineered pellet containing ricin was fired into his leg via an umbrella wielded by someone with possible links to the Bulgarian secret police.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi_Markov

These are just two examples of deaths that we in the United States condemned when they happened.

Were the circumstances different? Was the killing of this alleged terrorist more justified?

Maybe. But that is not the point. The fact is that by having this policy, we condone the basic idea itself. And that can cost the lives of our friends as well as our foes. This decision to kill people without trials and without a clearly defined declaration of war is a two-edged sword that may harm our country worse than some loud-mouthed terrorist somewhere.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
9. Oh, this is just alarmist alarmism
Tue Mar 6, 2012, 02:31 PM
Mar 2012

Summary execution of American citizens? It'll never happen. Besides, anybody luckless enough to be on the secret lists could just turn themselves in ahead of time. So, if you're a very, very bad person, just report to the nearest FBI office and submit yourself to your just punishment as determined by our faultless national security apparatus, where mistakes are almost never made. Don't you want the United States to be more secure? This program will guarantee* that we're safe from terrorist attacks forever!

*Note: This is not a guarantee.

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
15. wonder no more
Tue Mar 6, 2012, 03:09 PM
Mar 2012

You can either use a search engine, or the link provided by another user. What Holder said is a matter of public record.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
22. The link was provided, thanks to my asking for it. When reading a post on a subject...
Tue Mar 6, 2012, 11:30 PM
Mar 2012

that claims a position, I think the poster should be responsible for posting as many of hte facts as possible. If he doesn't, that should be pointed out. When he doesn't, I often find there's a reason for that, which is often that the full facts don't support the poster's opinion. That may not be the case here. I don't know. The poster didn't post all the facts.

But I will read Holder's speech thru the link provided in response to my request for the subject of the OP, which is Holder's speech.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
20. Why the personal attack? What in my post compelled you to personally attack? Asking for facts?
Tue Mar 6, 2012, 11:26 PM
Mar 2012

Does asking for a full story lead you to conclude something about motive?

It is so often the case in DU that people write a eyecatching subject line that may be not quite true, and include in the post part of a story...only the part that favors some position. If I care enough, I will often ask for the full story/facts, or read them myself on the internet. Then I sometimes learn WHY the poster didn't post all the facts. But regardless of whether all the facts make a difference or not, I'm the kind of person who naturally notices gaps in facts before jumping on a bandwagon. Even if I like the bandwagon.

 

Better Believe It

(18,630 posts)
23. Here's my motive. I support and defend our Bill of Rights and Constitution. End of story.
Tue Mar 6, 2012, 11:55 PM
Mar 2012

Why are you questioning my motives while at the same time falsely accusing another DU with engaging in a personal attack against you?

Now tell me what the "full story" is behind that sort of behavior?

frylock

(34,825 posts)
27. because there is no "other side of the story" as you so quaintly refer to it..
Wed Mar 7, 2012, 12:24 PM
Mar 2012

would you ask for the "other side of the story" is this was a republican admin shitting all over the constitution, or is that a luxury only afforded to democratic admins shitting all over the constitution?

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