General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums11-Year-Old, Handcuffed For Being Rude
When Yajira Quezada copped an attitude, police put her in cuffs.
An Adams County, Colo. Sheriff's Office incident report obtained by KUSA says the Shaw Heights Middle School 11-year-old was handcuffed and taken to a holding facility because she was, "argumentative and extremely rude" to an assistant principal.
"Why would they handcuff me?" Quezada asked KUSA. "I'm not the type of girl to get arrested."
The Sheriff's office said it was just following normal procedure.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/06/yajira-quezada-handcuffed_n_1324635.html
If I had handcuffed all my students who were argumentative and rude, a lot of them would have been cuffed at one point. Call a parent. That won't work all the time, but sometimes it will stop it flat.
This has got to stop. Unless the kids are outright dangerous or in some extreme emotional state, the cops should not handle it. I wonder if the administrator had dealt with many kids. Some haven't.
On thing I learned is never go to the Defcon 1 of discipline or you are out of ways to control the problem. You better try the other levels first.
Joe Shlabotnik
(5,604 posts)Yes your are. Welcome to the new reality.
Good way to phrase the rationale as "defcon 1". What if this type of discipline (whether in schools or with protesters) was actually viewed like pointing a gun, ie. 1) Never point a gun at person. 2) Never point a gun at a person unless you plan on using it. (and face the repercussions of your actions). Increasingly, seldom are there repercussions for bad and lazy judgment amongst authority figures these days.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)Do something, but don't arrest them! I can understand some children are so horrible there is the temptation to arrest them and throw them in a dungeon, but we as a society must resist the temptation.
Bladian
(475 posts)Quantess
(27,630 posts)except the town threw ALL the children in the dungeon, not just the bratty ones.
boppers
(16,588 posts)Defcon 1 is global thermonuclear war.
Handcuffs on a person being bratty is not global thermonuclear war.
Perhaps some perspective is in order.
Are_grits_groceries
(17,111 posts)As I said, calling the police is the DEFCON 1 of DISCIPLINE. It is an analogy.
Lower DEFCON levels of discipline might include:
Calling a parent
Bringing in her counselor
Giving her a timeout with someone to watch her until she calls down.
Also try to find out what set her off. Somebody listening to her instead of ordering her might give her a chance to pause.
It probably quickly reached the level of saving face. Neither wanted to give an inch lest they feel like they have lost after feeling disrespected. The admin needs to offer her a way out that is a compromise. That is a 'golden bridge.'
This depends on her listening at all. However, she can't hear if she is being scolded.
I tried all of these at some point when I was teaching. A lot of times they worked. It beats calling the police.
Example: A student would utter a curse word. It might be directed at me or it might not be. I would turn around and look at the student and say 'Excuse me?' That meant you have one chance to escape trouble by apologizing. Almost all of them did apologize. I asked them to watch the language they used.
I didn't try to make it a big deal, but I wasn't going to ignore it. Some teachers I knew went batshit crazy.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)to "save face" in a disagreement with an adult. Her self importance is out of whack. A dose of humility would serve this kid well. She is lucky she just got handcuffed. My principle would have paddled her rear end. It was a big nasty paddle with holes drilled through it.
Zalatix
(8,994 posts)where are the cops to protect them?
Oh, I know, they're out dealing with something even MORE IMPORTANT, like a rude child.
Are_grits_groceries
(17,111 posts)Some kids feel that face or their dignity is precious.
I taught some kids who were many grade levels below where they should be academically. They felt like academic failures. Their home situations weren't great. If they felt like you were disrespecting them, they would really get upset. In their own way, their dignity was something to hold on to at all costs.
They could be disciplined. Just don't humiliate them!
What you refer to as her self importance may be something quite different. They don't have to be handled with kid gloves. You do learn what buttons that will result in problem if pushed. You want some humility, but you will never get it if it is viewed as humiliation.
This girl may be a real discipline problem with a long history of problems. She could be upset about something just that day.
Adults aren't necessarily always right. Getting to such a high level of confrontation is the last thing you want to do. Calling the police unless it is dangerous is ridiculous.
I never took any shite off my students, and they knew it. They also knew what I expected from them, and that I would take care of any problems. I would also listen to them. I had my share of confrontations, but it was a battle I was damn sure was worth fighting
I had a father who was always right. He loved me, but I really felt humiliated at times when I was punished. If it was deserved, ok. If not, resentment would build up. That isn't healthy in parenting or teaching.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Age has no bearing to the logical validity of an argument.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)is always bullshit. Kids may not be adults but they are human beings worthy of being taken seriously and treated with a full measure of human dignity.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)but they do not have the right to be indignant with an adult authority in power. Welcome to the freaking real world. Get used to it. Idiots will have power over you your entire life. There are ways of dealing with it effectively, and then there is getting your ass handcuffed and taken out by the police.
I'm not saying you have to kiss ass, but those who think they always have the right to have a bad case of the ass are just stupid.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)It is a perfectly acceptable answer that everyone has to deal with at some point in their life, and sometimes it is the right answer. Maybe this is why there was a big article the other day on how much better behaved French children were than their American counterparts. "Because I said so" seemed to pretty well accepted by French kids.
SATIRical
(261 posts)Life experience CAN give insight that the youth simply do not have.
HillWilliam
(3,310 posts)half-glasses is usually enough with my nephews and niece. It has been quite enough to get misbehaving kids in public to stop for a moment to reconsider. There's no need to escalate: that just begs for counter-escalation. That never goes anywhere productive.
I love your ideas, Ms AGG.
Zalatix
(8,994 posts)It's an analogy, a metaphor. The cops are the most severe response you can bring to a domestic confrontation.
Well, actually, the National Guard would be, but given the sheer idiocy of society, how far away are we from that?
boppers
(16,588 posts)"The cops are the most severe response you can bring to a domestic confrontation. "
Nope.
Hint: Hyperbole is an enemy of reason.
You nod to it by mentioning the National Guard, but I would argue that a nuclear strike trumps any troops.
Are_grits_groceries
(17,111 posts)Of course, thermonuclear war is the biggest response. That is in the context of the geopolitical world and the confrontations there.
I am specifically talking about schools and the confrontations there. There have been many stories about the police being called into schools to handle problems. Sometimes it is a person who is on campus for security.
M
I am not making this up out of whole cloth. I taught and saw many types of confrontations between many different students and teachers. Most were handled by the teachers. At times, an administrator or counselor had to be called in. The cops were never called. They only would have been brought in for a student who presented a real and present danger.
They were brought in one time when one of the darlings went down the hall and set fire to all the posters on the wall. She had been a hard case and real troublemaker for as long as I knew her. She had pushed everyone to the limit. The principal talked to various people above her, and it was agreed that if she did not behave, the police would be called. She was warned, and I guess she wanted to test the principle. Off to juvie she went after the police turned her over to that system.
I never thought about calling the cops or anybody else. SWAT wouldn't be brought in unless there was a shooter or riot. I have no idea why you are going down that road. If a particular student or a few students were completely out of control, the cops are DEFCON one.
Once you go to that level, you have few other options. You have used the worst punishment in your arsenal. There are other less severe things to try. Those should be tried first.
I cannot explain this more clearly. We will just operate under different assumption.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)That's a fact. You can't even call them if you're burglarized - it seems the first thing they do is check your house for weed or something - find an excuse to arrest YOU instead of doing actual work by finding the burglar.
Justice wanted
(2,657 posts)are beginning to pop up. What the F happened to calling the kids parents giving the kid detention or at the very worse suspension?
DiverDave
(4,886 posts)I am amazed at the dynamic when adults fall to the 13yr olds level in arguments.
Be the FUCKING ADULT!
God, HANDCUFFS??? Really??
mackattack
(344 posts)"I'm not the type of girl to get arrested"
straight out of 1940s cinema.
DCKit
(18,541 posts)Y'all get it.
TheManInTheMac
(985 posts)Guess what; if the cops are taking you into custody... you WILL be handcuffed. Eight to eighty, blind, crippled, crazy.
FBaggins
(26,756 posts)They're already in the schools.
earthside
(6,960 posts)Talk to teachers and kids and no doubt, having a police presence in the schools has changed the environment ... and not necessarily in making people feel safer.
Because ... you get situations like this where the police budget has to justify an officer in the schools (mostly holding up the walls from my observations) rather than out on the streets 'fighting crime' (so to speak). So, they end-up doing kind of silly things like 'arresting' eleven year olds.
In a lot of Colorado schools, especially high schools, there is an officer assigned just to a single school. They often tend to be the old, fat ones, but it does not seem to be a wise use of resources -- especially in these times of cutbacks in city and school budgets.
FBaggins
(26,756 posts)The response may not have been the right one, but getting rid of them doesn't fix the problems either.
Drugs, gangs/violence, weapons, lack of respect for teachers/administrators, etc, etc, etc...
IndyJones
(1,068 posts)however she was behaving. Sounds extreme, but I can't say for sure without knowing what all happened to escalate to that point.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)(yes, even that) are all happening in schools. The cops are going to be where the crime is happening. A police liaison in a school usually does try to handle the offenses differently than a beat cop or detective but they are there basically for the crime.
TheManInTheMac
(985 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)What color is she?
SATIRical
(261 posts)handcuffed
http://www.wpbf.com/news/22526263/detail.html
It kills me how some people read race into EVERYTHING.
FBaggins
(26,756 posts)As reported, this was a case of a juvenile deciding that her judgement on whether or not to obey a rule was superior to that of the authority in place to administer that rule - even after being confronted by that authority.
That's very much the kind of person who gets arrested.
Now... it should be noted that those in authority are not always correct and it's often appropriate to disobey authority... but it is the kind of thing that can get you arrested.
In this case, I don't think we have enough information to judge whether or not cuffs were necessary (though it certainly seems extreme), but we do know that this young lady has very poor judgement when deciding which rules should be followed even when she disagrees with them and which situations require her to take a stand on her principal (pun intended). "I'm going to get my sweater whether you want me to or not" is particularly childish.
But then again... she's 11.
earthside
(6,960 posts)The CSAP/TCAP high stakes, NCLB testing is getting underway in Colorado -- three weeks of testing, testing, testing.
Everyone in the schools is under high stress because if this political testing regimen.
That may explain the girl's attitude and the administrator's overreaction.
(Although I have to say that administrators seem to be getting more bullying and incompetent all the time.)
To any Colorado parents out there: opt out of this torturous testing: http://thecbe.org/
surfdog
(624 posts)Is it legal to handcuff a child and detained them just because they were rude ?
I am pretty sure it's illegal to handcuff somebody and detained them because they were rude