Snowden Asks U.S. to Stop Treating Him Like a Traitor

[Eugene]

Source: New York Times

Snowden Asks U.S. to Stop Treating Him Like a Traitor

By ALISON SMALE
Published: November 1, 2013

BERLIN — Edward J. Snowden, the fugitive American security contractor granted temporary asylum by Russia, has appealed to Washington to stop treating him like a traitor for revealing that the United States has been eavesdropping on its allies, a German politician who met with Mr. Snowden said on Friday.

Mr. Snowden made his appeal in a [llink:http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/11/01/world/europe/02snowden-letter.html|letter] that was carried to Berlin by Hans-Christian Ströbele, a veteran member of the Green Party in the German Parliament. Mr. Ströbele said he and two journalists for German news outlets met with Mr. Snowden and a person described as his assistant — probably his British aide, Sarah Harrison — at an undisclosed location in or near Moscow on Thursday for almost three hours.

Mr. Ströbele had gone to Moscow to explore whether Mr. Snowden could or would testify before a planned parliamentary inquiry into the eavesdropping. Any arrangements for Mr. Snowden to testify would require significant legal maneuvering, as it seemed unlikely that he would travel to Germany for fear of extradition to the United States.

In his letter, Mr. Snowden, 30, also appealed for clemency. He said his disclosures about American intelligence activity at home and abroad, which he called “systematic violations of law by my government that created a moral duty to act,” have had positive effects.

[font size=1]-snip-[/font]

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/02/world/europe/snowden-appeals-to-us-for-clemency.html

Related: Snowden’s Letter of Appeal to Washington

[zbdent]

1. I'd just like to know

why Snowden was quite happy with the spying while he worked during the Bush era ...

[NuclearDem]

2. He didn't work for the NSA until 2009.

[MADem]

7. Well, he said he was an NSA security guard after his aborted Army basic training ....

That was well before 2009.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden#Career

His next employment was as a National Security Agency (NSA) security guard for the Center for Advanced Study of Language at the University of Maryland,[58] before, he said, joining the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to work on IT security.[59] In May 2006 Snowden wrote in Ars Technica that he had no trouble getting work because he was a "computer wizard". In August he wrote about a possible path in government service, perhaps involving China, but said it "just doesn't seem like as much 'fun' as some of the other places".[55]

[NuclearDem]

22. Security guards don't work with the systems.

He didn't work in any sort of IT fashion until 2009.

[MADem]

26. At CIA he did--look at the link I provided. That's when he wanted to shoot those leakers

in the balls.

He also worked for DELL/NSA during that timeframe. He was a busy bee, Ed was. He was fine when Bush was running the show, but he didn't care for Obama one bit, it would seem:

Snowden may have leaned libertarian on some issues, but he also exhibited strong support for America's security state apparatus. He didn't just work for it as a quiet dissident. Four years before he would leak the country's secrets, Snowden was cheering its actions and insisting that it needed healthy funding. To anyone who questioned US actions in his favored online hangout, he could be derisive.

Livid about the across-the-board defense cuts that were planned under Obama, Snowden acidly joked that "maybe we could just outsource our defense needs to india."

Worse yet, during a remarkable January 2009 chat, Snowden wrote that Obama had "appointed a fucking politician to run the CIA." In that same conversation, he vented his rage over reading a New York Times article about US actions in Iran, which was based on confidential leaks.

< TheTrueHOOHA> WTF NYTIMES
< TheTrueHOOHA> Are they TRYING to start a war?
Jesus christ
they're like wikileaks
< User19> they're just reporting, dude.
< TheTrueHOOHA> They're reporting classified shit
< User19> shrugs
< TheTrueHOOHA> about an unpopular country surrounded by enemies already engaged in a war
and about our interactions with said country regarding planning sovereignity violations of another country
you don't put that shit in the NEWSPAPER
< User19> meh
< TheTrueHOOHA> moreover, who the fuck are the anonymous sources telling them this?
< TheTrueHOOHA> those people should be shot in the balls.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/06/exclusive-in-2009-ed-snowden-said-leakers-should-be-shot-then-he-became-one/3/

I mean, really--what changed, except, ya know...the guy in the White House?


I guess it's only OK in the Bush years....this guy is a hypocrite, and now he's not feeling the Russian lifestyle. Hunker down, Eddie--enjoy your time in Pootie-ville.

[NuclearDem]

40. And I was a die-hard conservative during the Bush years.

It ever occur to you people can change their minds?

If someone who was a misogynistic, homophobic, pro-war, Christian Right winger omnivore can change into a feminist, pro-equality, peacenik atheist socialist vegan, then why can't this change too?

[MADem]

45. A shift from uber-conservative to progressive, that quickly, is very unusual.

I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but I am saying that such a shift is rare in the extreme. And the profound dietary shift on top of everything else, why, that's "hen's teeth" territory.

I've always been a Democrat, but I've known a few people who have seen the light after years on the right. It's usually a gradual, evolutionary process. They change their mind on one thing. Then another. Then, gradually, something else. Once they realize they're more on our team than their old alliances, they start to open their minds. It takes a long while, usually.

[Prism]

65. Not really

Especially not in a person's 20s.

What I believed at 21 and 30 are light years apart. The cortex really doesn't firm up until 25 or so. Assuming ongoing reading and education, it's not at all unusual to see foundational shifts in thinking at that age.

[MADem]

75. In youngsters, perhaps not. In adults, it's a tougher nut to crack.

I didn't realize the poster was a youth.

[RedCappedBandit]

86. Off topic.. have you ever shared how you made that change?

[NuclearDem]

87. A few specific "role models", places I've lived, and some events.

Keith and Rachel were the ones I can most credit with starting me that direction. Living in California for almost two years did some of it, then being deployed to Afghanistan. Living in downtown Omaha was a major factor too.

Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher were largely the reasons I became an atheist. Certain DU members made me more of a socialist. Citizen Radio made me a feminist and a vegan.

The financial crisis was the largest nail in my conservatism's proverbial coffin, though.

[backscatter712]

70. Stop confusing him with facts!

[sabrina 1]

5. He wasn't. He didn't work for them under Bush.

Bradley Manning otoh, DID work for the military under Bush and it was during that time that he witnessed war crimes and reported them.

Too bad the revelations didn't come out sooner, while Bush was still in office as for some it's all about that, which politician might be hurt. Of course for people of integrity that has nothing to do with it, it is about right and wrong no matter who is in power.

Manning and Snowden are heroes and will be recorded as such in history.

[MADem]

12. Yes he did--he was a security guard for them, and then he went to CIA, all during the Bush years.

His next employment was as a National Security Agency (NSA) security guard for the Center for Advanced Study of Language at the University of Maryland,[58] before, he said, joining the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to work on IT security.[59] In May 2006 Snowden wrote in Ars Technica that he had no trouble getting work because he was a "computer wizard". In August he wrote about a possible path in government service, perhaps involving China, but said it "just doesn't seem like as much 'fun' as some of the other places".[55]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden#Career

During the Bush years, he thought leakers should be shot in the balls.

[MADem]

36. I think the brother in the White House changed his POV.

He was a happy apologist for the Security State under Bush--aggressive, nasty, snarky, and rude.

When Obama came in, he was kvetching like a grannie with a bad knee about how horrible Obama was. He only decided to take action when Mitt rMoney didn't get elected and that "interloper" had the nerve to cruise to victory a second time.

I think he hates Obama, and that drives him. No one does that kind of one-eighty, from shooting leakers in the balls to "Boo hoo we're spying too much."

I think his dislike of POTUS blinded him and caused him to behave intemperately. He didn't want to "fix the system," he wanted to fling some stuff at POTUS publicly. There were ways to approach this that didn't mandate giving a pile of crap to a couple of reporters. He even could have boosted the rep of his hero Rand Paul, by going to him.

I think he's starting to think that Russia sucks, too, and that's why he's trying to weasel his way home. I'll bet he wishes his buddy GG would release his book sooner (yes, GG has a money-maker, er, book in the works, it's already up for advanced sales on Amazon, but won't be out for several months yet).

I think he's going to jump that shark soon. Then he'll really be stuck.

[MADem]

42. I have no inside track, but that seems a bit convoluted to me!

Why would POTUS take that degree of heat? He's catching enough crap from the wingnuts on the Hill....

[MADem]

48. It requires Obama, or his minions, to seek out and program his little patsy, and trust patsy to

perform accordingly.

It's not a "legacy" to have someone trashing you from Moscow, IMO. That's not action, it's reaction.

In any event, it is what it is.

[randome]

13. Don't you remember? He said he "saw things".

CASE CLOSED!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[MADem]

23. Winter's coming. He's still wearing that same "too big" suit in his photo op with the German dude.

He's probably cold, lonely, sick of vodka and beet soup, and singing this tune:

Ya reap what ya sow, Ed.

[randome]

32. I thought he would bury himself in ever greater isolation.

But it may be that he will get so tired of his situation that he turns himself in.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[MADem]

37. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. nt

[stevenleser]

57. I think you hit it there. The Russian winter is lonely and isolating without Oligarch-type $$$$$

Even more so if you are a wanted fugitive from western governments.

[randome]

58. He couldn't make friends in this country.

Imagine how it is for him now. I would think loyalty to one's nation matters more to rank-and-file Russians than political considerations of embarrassing the United States.

He may be even more alone than before.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[MADem]

20. He's a hypocrite, that's why.

He thought leakers should be shot in the balls when Bush was in charge.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/06/exclusive-in-2009-ed-snowden-said-leakers-should-be-shot-then-he-became-one/3/

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/world/under-snowdens-screen-name-a-declaration-in-09-that-leakers-should-be-shot.html

[kelliekat44]

24. Hes not only a hypocrite, he is actually a traitor...no matter what the outcome.

[randome]

33. Not sure that supports your point.

Maybe it takes a traitor to recognize another?

(Although I don't agree Snowden is a traitor, just a misguided, thirty year old lost boy.)
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[Egnever]

3. LOL

This dude is unreal.

[sabrina 1]

8. True, there are not many heroes around so when you see one it does seem

unreal.

The world is a better place when courageous people refuse to remain silent when they see wrong doing. Most don't have that courage.

Now laws will be put in place to end the abuse of people's rights all over the world.

History will treat him very well. Not so much those who have some kind of agenda, something to hide. But that is the way it always is regarding these matters.

[Egnever]

9. What a load

[sabrina 1]

16. Thanks, some things are so predictable, it would upset my sense of

equilibrium if anything changed.

Snowden is a hero and is viewed as such even now during his lifetime, by a majority of people.

[Egnever]

18. So is Raygun

doesnt mean its true.

[Aerows]

89. If the NSA hadn't been doing wrong-doing

they wouldn't have to worry about a Snowden. But they did, and now they do.

See you only get mad at whistle blowers when they catch you doing things that are illegal and things that you shouldn't have been doing in the first place. Are you one of those that is caught up in this, or are you just upset that the Obama administration has been?

It's pretty much either/or at this point. Nobody that believes in the right to privacy can stomach this shit unless they have a vested interest in doing so. Even some of the diehards have expressed distaste.

[baldguy]

4. Just like a whiny libertarian asshole.

[woo me with science]

6. Just like a corporate propaganda machine. nt

[baldguy]

10. Where do you think these incessant, unending attacks on Obama come from?

The corporate propaganda machine.

[woo me with science]

15. BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

That's funny.

Watch the policies. Always watch the policies.

Moderate, my ass.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3964032

[sabrina 1]

14. They have so much to hide. I think the real scandal is that we have

been funding these immoral, corrupt Corporations under the guise of 'National Security', but the more that is revealed, the more it becomes apparent that this was a multi-Billion dollar Corporate espionage operation using Tax Dollars to get free information to enhance Big Business.

Unless Merkel and 35 other world leaders are terror suspects!

We were scammed, again!

[woo me with science]

17. Yup. Two reasons for this monstrous surveillance state:

1) Total information awareness FOR PROFIT,
and
2) A surveillance state to prevent resistance by those being exploited FOR PROFIT.

It's corporate fascism, by definition.

[rhett o rick]

51. LOL, how childish. nm

[baldguy]

54. Yes, Snowden & his supporters have acted like children from the beginning of this.

He admits to committing a crime, but believes the law doesn't apply to him because he sees himself as an objectivist hero. It's the same kind of classic libertarian delusion that's destroying America.

[rhett o rick]

55. It's the secrecy of the authoritarians that is causing harm to America.

The NSA needs to be controlled irregardless of how tall Snowden is or anything else about him.

I dont understand how politically liberal people posting in DU can side with the Republicans on this issue. Have you listened to Rep. Rodgers, Head of the House Committee, a Republican? His views are echoed here by those wanting to punish Snowden, Greenwald, Rep Grayson, etc. and let the NSA operate in complete secrecy with no oversight.

[randome]

56. No. Because true objectivity arrives without paying attention to others' opinions.

I couldn't care less whose opinions concur with mine. What matters is seeing things in my own light based on my own experiences and ability to sift data from hyperbole.

That's how I arrive at the conclusion that the NSA monitoring foreign communications is not a 'hair-on-fire' revelation.

Scale them back, it's all the same to me. But so far none of this seems like a sinister plot to control the world. Because in case you haven't noticed, the world is a very messy and chaotic place.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[rhett o rick]

59. But some here give arguments that mimic those of the Corp-Media and Republicans like Rep Rodgers.

Immediately insisting that there was nothing wrong at the NSA and firing ad hominem attacks on practically a daily basis is not being open minded.

If someone claims that there are those that want to control the world, I would expect a liberal to respond that it was not only possible but probable. I would expect a conservative to get defensive and demand blind faith in their beloved authoritarian leaders. Sort of like, "Mommy wont let anything bad happen to me."

[randome]

60. Well, I don't trust the NSA. Or the FBI. Or the CIA.

But I choose to worry about things that appear to be especially egregious to me. I don't see that the NSA monitoring foreign communications is much of a revelation.

Attempting to categorize anyone on this issue works both ways, you know. Your implication that we shouldn't trust the government also sounds like a right-wing talking point.

Why can't we simply agree to disagree without bringing in comparisons to other groups and ideologies?

I know, some of the attacks on side-issues have been contemptible from both sides (although I always maintain that on an issue of this scope, there are always more than two sides), but those can be ignored or simply refuted without contention.

DU doesn't need to be a placid debating parlor but we could all do a little better keeping our exasperation in check.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[rhett o rick]

67. "I don't see that the NSA monitoring foreign communications is much of a revelation. " I dont

either. But I never said otherwise. I think the apparently uncontrolled spying of the NSA is a concern. This amount of control could be used to control our government. We need oversight for our spy agencies.

As far as me not trusting our government be compared to a right-wing stand, I believe we strongly need a government to work for the people. I do not trust agencies that have no oversight, operate in secrecy, and have unlimited tax money to spend. Besides where I dont trust the NSA, I really dont trust Booz-Allen, Halliburton, and the Carlyle Group.

"Why can't we simply agree to disagree without bringing in comparisons to other groups and ideologies? " I agree and will work to do better.

[randome]

85. There are quite a few 'unnecessary' remarks in this thread from every direction.

Thanks for the comity.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[baldguy]

61. Calling Obama an authoritarian is just another RW Teabagger talking point.

It's good to see that DU's contingent of malcontents is up & about to let us know Rand Paul's views on the subject.

[rhett o rick]

63. I am not a libertarian, I dont like Rand Paul, and I dont believe that Pres Obama is an

authoritarian. Seems when you run out of decent arguments, you have to resort to that crap.

I do believe that General Clapper, General Alexander, and Mueller are strong conservative authoritarians. I believe that the Patriot Act should be repealed, what do you believe? I believe the NSA should have strong oversight, dont you? Rep Rodgers doesnt agree with me and he is a representative of the right-wing.

I am interested in whether you agree with liberals like Sen Wyden, Sen Warren and Rep Grayson, or you agree with Gen Clapper and Republican representative Rodgers.

[demosincebirth]

11. "cry me a river."

[scheming daemons]

19. If the foo shits.....

[woo me with science]

21. The Bat Signal has gone out,

and the corporate brigade is on the case!


MUST...SMEAR....THE WHISTLEBLOWER!

[LittleBlue]

64. Yep. So predictable

As persistent and unchanging as adbots.

[backscatter712]

74. They're pissy today - they don't like being forced to work weekends. n/t

[Hekate]

25. I'm sorry Mrs. Snowden, but your son is entirely delusional....

He thinks the Law of Gravity has also been repealed on his behalf -- keep him away from tall buildings.

~

~

~

~

This saga just gets weirder and weirder all the time. Snowden and Greenwald, whether or not you think they are heroes, conspired to commit espionage and then committed espionage. What. Did. They. Think. Would. Happen? Even if they (or you, the reader) think they are heroes, were they not aware that misunderstood heroes stand a good chance of becoming martyrs?

[Historic NY]

27. Well..he went there.

[randome]

41. God, that's fucking disturbing! Thanks for the creepy nightmares!

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[AverageJoe90]

30. Shoulda thought about that before you snuck info to our greatest rivals, Eddie, ya coward.....nt

[Thinkingabout]

34. Asking for clemency, he could return to the US to face his charges and let the chips

Fall where they may. He knows his charges, now he needs to man up and face justice. I have an idea life is not so wonderful in Russia, he may have thought things was not to his liking in the US, Russia probably is less concerned with what he likes.

[KY5]

35. When will we see a similar letter from the LAX shooter?

[MADem]

38. What secrets did that gun-nut murderer leak? Can the moron even write? nt

[NuclearDem]

46. Clearly you weren't around when the story originally broke.

[DesMoinesDem]

49. Wow. The NSA apologists are still at it.

Their posts are still good for a laugh. "Those Powerpoint slides prove nothing!!!" LOL

[Tikki]

50. It's all fun and games until you start looking down your first Russian Winter....

Tikki

[Pretzel_Warrior]

52. That's what happens when you do traitor-y stuff, ass clown

You will get years to review other ways you COULD have been an actual whistle blower instead of a traitor.

[Lil Missy]

53. Come back and face the music then. n/t

[ucrdem]

62. Snowball swipes 10,000 top-secrets docs, puts 'em on e-bay, and now wants a refund?

Take it up with Mr Omidyar would be my suggestion.

[BlueCheese]

66. Is this a liberal board?

I'm surprised to see so many people piling on the man who revealed some of the most egregious instances of government overreach in our history.

[woo me with science]

68. States that build surveillance machines...

...also build propaganda machines.

[Luminous Animal]

72. +1

[Luminous Animal]

71. With bitter glee.

I find them as near nasty as the Phelps' protesting at a funeral.

[backscatter712]

76. Infiltrated by Stasi-lovers, or shall I say, their personas... n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

69. Emile Zola was called a traitor and forced to leave France. Now, he's a national hero.

He also blew the whistle on the militarists and their secrets.

[ucrdem]

77. More like one of Zola's characters.

Except that Snowy has the high-level connections that Zola's wretches lack. He won't starve and he won't hang, rest assured.

[Aerows]

90. Oh wow

That isn't hyperbole *at all*, not to mention revisionist history.

Christ.

[backscatter712]

73. Yep. The corporate shills are here.

Can't tolerate dissent against the intelligence-industrial complex...

Now they're upset because they're afraid they'll have to start pulling shifts of overtime again.

[riqster]

78. Nut up, Eddie.

You knowingly and deliberately broke US law. If you feel that you were following a higher law, that i understandable: but the folks who wrote those laws Will. Not. Suddenly. See. The. Light. Ain't gonna happen.

Come back and try to beat the rap. You might pull it off, being too visible and notorious to be shipped to Gitmo or otherwise disappeared.

But sitting out there in your Russian hidey-hole hoping that an entire government will suddenly, magically change its laws is a deeply fucking stupid idea.

[Rex]

79. Dude, we just went through a shutdown and almost default.

By a bunch of economic terrorists...you think you are going to get any love now? Ted Cruz will froth all over you like a rabid wombat. Maybe you could find some really devastating shit on the GOP and release it around the world? You know...something like finally exposed, they are all lizards in human skin or something...


Dam that new human skin itches!

[brooklynite]

80. Actually, they're treating him like an ACCUSED Traitor

He's welcome to return to the US to stand trial and get an official ruling.

[Number23]

81. Awesome thread.

Between the predictably stupid "corporate shills working on weekends are all over this thread!!' and "Snowden's a herooo to all of the world!11" when barely a majority of even the Russian people support him and this was AFTER he kissed Russia's behinds to get into their country, I haven't laughed this hard all day.

[SidDithers]

83. Yup. The Snowden defenders were on this thread like white on rice...

'OMFG!! Someone's telling the truth about dear Edward!! Quick, break out the heroism schtick!!'



Sid

[Number23]

88. They try their hardest to convince the world that he's a hero. Too bad the world isn't buying it

As is obvious by the vast majority of responses in this thread as well as the rec count.

[SidDithers]

82. Snowden. What a fucking clown...nt

Sid

[whttevrr]

84. Meanwhile, Texas is dragging women back to the 50's and no one seems to give a shit...

Fuck this thread and the putz who alerted on post 73.