Really? Really? This is the man so many of you are fawning over?
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Last edited Sun Nov 10, 2013, 02:21 AM - Edit history (1)
Thread after fawning thread about Pope Francis here, on a supposedly progressive forum where the rights of women and gays are assumed to be important? Well, maybe not so much, huh? And that fight against poverty? The grinding poverty that has a demographic comprised mostly of women and children, most severely manifested in countries where women are denied reproductive choice? Is there not the slightest bit of recognition that there is a disconnect between being against the death penalty but sentencing thousands, if not millions of women around the world to death because they do not have access to birth control and abortion? Preach to me about the Pope's love for women even as he continues the war on progressive nuns and reaffirms that the door to the ordination of women remains closed. Remind me again about this new dawning for it looks like the same old sunrise to me when Archbishop Gerhard Mueller remains in charge of the Vatican's policy regarding the sexual abuse of children.
Now having dismissed all of the above, by all means please feel free to post another gushing thread about the Pope's car. And by all means, let me know if he adopts a puppy.
http://www.thenation.com/article/176345/pope-francis-sexism-human-face#
(excerpt)
Sure enough, the day after the publication of the interview—and to much less notice—Pope Francis gave a firmly anti-abortion speech to a gathering of Catholic gynecologists. He quoted Pope Benedict on the connection between “openness to life” and social justice (“openness to life” is code for banning not just abortion but contraception), castigated abortion as part of a “throw-away culture” and urged Catholic doctors to refuse to perform them. At best, this suggests an opening for the “seamless garment” Catholicism promoted by the late Cardinal Bernardin, in which opposition to birth control and abortion was connected with opposition to war, capital punishment and poverty.
Women really get the short sleeve of the seamless garment, I must say. Realistically, ending war or poverty is way beyond the church’s power, but it has been rather effective around the world at promoting unwanted pregnancy and forced childbirth. I honor the way Catholic activists have fought the death penalty in the United States, but it is a fact that exponentially more women die because of lack of access to birth control and abortion globally than do prisoners in the execution chamber. In numerous countries where the Catholic Church is powerful—Nicaragua, El Salvador, Chile, the Philippines—the death penalty does not exist, and abortion is banned even to preserve the woman’s life: a serial killer is at less risk of death from the state than a pregnant woman.
Pope Francis’s record on women so far is a continuation of his conservative predecessors’. “On the ordination of women,” he has said, “that door is closed.” Church watchers can debate whether he was agreeing with John Paul II’s “definitive” (but not quite infallible) statement on the matter or simply acknowledging a current political reality. Either way, governance of the church will continue to present a Saudi-like front of solid, if not necessarily heterosexual, masculinity, and its all-important sacraments will continue to be dispensed by men alone.
Pope Francis is continuing the investigation, begun last year by Pope Benedict, of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, the progressive nuns’ organization charged with espousing “radical feminist themes” and being insufficiently zealous against abortion and gay rights. It’s hard to imagine winning many hearts and minds among American Catholic women—who use birth control and have abortions and even same-sex weddings like other American women—by putting these immensely learned, dedicated and, of course, devout women under the supervision of male authorities, as though they were children....
http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/lets_face_it_pope_francis_still_aint_that_great_20130921?ln
In April, Francis reaffirmed his predecessor’s censure of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, an umbrella organization that represents 80 percent of Catholic nuns in the United States. These nuns were penalized by the Vatican, and continue to be penalized, for focusing on poverty instead of stoking moral panic about the existence of gay people or sexually active teenagers — exactly the kind of community-centered work that Francis just declared sorely missing from the church.
In the report admonishing the sisters, and stripping them of the independent authority to develop their own charter and conduct their own business, the Vatican said they were undermining “issues of crucial importance to the life of Church and society, such as the Church’s Biblical view of family life and human sexuality” and promoting “radical feminist themes incompatible with the Catholic faith.”
Francis’ censure places these women under the full authority of the Vatican and its “program of reform,” which includes the appointment of three male bishops to manage the rewriting of the nuns’ conference statutes, review its community-based programs and otherwise ensure the group “properly” follows Catholic teaching.
In the same interview in which the pope urged Catholics to move away from the “obsession” with reproductive healthcare and gay rights to create a more inclusive, welcoming church, he also said, “The teaching of the church, for that matter [of abortion, contraception and gay marriage], is clear and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time.”
http://www.catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=53058
A senior Vatican spokesman has denied rumors that Pope Francis may appoint two women as cardinals at the upcoming February conclave. Theologically and theoretically, it is possible," Fr. Lombardi said. "Being a cardinal is one of those roles in the church for which, theoretically, you do not have to be ordained but to move from there to suggesting the pope will name women cardinals for the next consistory is not remotely realistic."
http://world.time.com/2013/09/25/pope-francis-excommunicates-priest-who-supports-womens-ordination-and-gays/#ixzz2kDKqUsuJ
Pope Francis Excommunicates Priest Who Backed Women’s Ordination and Gays
Despite his reforming attitude, Francis still supports traditional doctrine
Read more: Pope Francis Excommunicates Priest Who Backed Women’s Ordination and Gays | TIME.com
http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/08/07/the-door-to-women-ordination-is-closed-says-pope-francis-and-thanks-be-to-god/
The Door to Women’s Ordination is Closed, Says Pope Francis, and Thanks Be to God
http://www.womensordination.org/content/view/453/42/
Pope Francis slams door on women's ordination
July 29, 2013
Washington, DC - "The Women's Ordination Conference is deeply discouraged to learn of Pope Francis' remarks regarding women's ordination.
In an interview given to reporters on July 28 en route to Rome from Rio de Janeiro, Pope Francis made it very clear that this papacy sees women as separate, but not equal to men, and will keep the door to women's ordination closed, citing Pope John Paul II as his reasoning....
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57604023/
September 21, 2013, 1:40 PM
Pope keeps cleric who leads crackdown on liberal U.S. nuns
(excerpt)
In another important decision, Francis left Archbishop Gerhard Mueller in the powerful role of prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Mueller, originally appointed by Benedict XVI, directs the Holy See's crackdown on nuns suspected of undermining Catholic teaching on the priesthood and homosexuality. His office also shapes policy dealing with clergy who sexually abuse minors.
Under Mueller's tenure, critics of the Vatican's strategy have so far been frustrated in their lobbying for Vatican and other church hierarchy to be held accountable for policy that for decades left pedophile priests in their ministry, merely shuffling them from parish to parish when complaints emerged....
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2013/07/10/2003566788
Church in final birth control fight in Philippines
A relentless Catholic Church campaign to derail a birth control law in the Philippines entered its final phase at the Supreme Court yesterday, with the verdict to have a monumental impact on millions of poor Filipinos.
The court began hearing arguments against a family planning law that Philippine President Benigno Aquino III, defying intense church pressure, helped steer through parliament late last year.
It is the last legal recourse for the church, which for more than a decade led resistance to birth control legislation in the mainly Catholic nation.
The church, which had threatened Aquino and other supporters of the law with excommunication, yesterday held prayer vigils, protests and masses near the Supreme Court....
http://ncronline.org/blogs/grace-margins/contraception-philippines-and-pope-francis-passion-poor
Pope Francis has been highly touted for his criticism of institutional evils that create poverty. But there is something deeply troubling about a church leadership that rails against poverty and institutional sin while using its resources to defeat civil laws aimed at alleviating the suffering of the poorest.
If the pope and his brother bishops are to be fully honest about roots of poverty, they must take an honest look at the ways in which the policies and agenda of their institutional church contribute to inadequate medical care for mothers, the starvation of families, the swelling of the slum population, the spread of HIV/AIDS, and environmental degradation.
I realize Pope Francis cannot change the contraception teaching overnight, but he could call the bishops of the Philippines to cease this relentless, well-funded campaign. The institutional church now stands as the lone impediment between poor Philippine mothers and adequate maternal health care. The hierarchy's lobbying has kept mothers and fathers from raising families they can afford, families small enough to allow children to be fed and educated....
http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/08/opinion/cahill-pope-francis/
Francis' comments on the appointment of bishops suggest that his criteria has less to do with loyalty and orthodoxy and more to do with pastoral experience and compassion. But in his first American appointment, one that was not in the pipeline before his papal election, he named Bishop Leonard Blair as the new archbishop of Hartford, Connecticut.
Blair is a true believer culture warrior and former Vatican official who led the charge against the Leadership Conference of Religious Women last year and earlier joined in the condemnation of Notre Dame University for having President Barack Obama as a speaker. And in light of Francis closing the door on female priests, many women theologians and lay leaders are wondering about his emphasis on a new role for women in the church...
...She points out that the Pope says that the church does not want to wound gays and lesbians, but "Francis doesn't seem to understand that it is precisely the teaching of the church that is doing the wounding."...
...And our new Pope, unintentionally, may seduce many into thinking that things are getting better and provide cover for the Cordileones of our church to continue their campaign of condemnation and exclusion....
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/population/la-fg-population-matters5-20120729-html,0,5897961.htmlstory#axzz2k7J32g4x
http://www.salon.com/2013/03/14/pope_francis_on_gay_rights_his_5_worst_quotes/
= new reply since forum marked as read
It's really easy to get sucked into the pretend world of on-line where everyone has the right answer and would do a much better job than the actual people in reality do.
When I first got active in politics I found DU (saw Skinner on teevee when Little Boots first got sworn in!) and followed it. Learned so much in those early days! Well it sure seemed like I could do a better job too! Why didn't pols know just what to say and when to say it???
After being active locally a few years I jumped into statewide stuff and took a leadership role. Let me tell you that was damn hard! I had 14 counties to work with, each with their own view of what should be done and how we should do it. And we were supposedly on the same team! *sigh*
But here in DU land it is simpler than that. 
Julie
Then again, I don't read most of what is on this huge board. 
It's not as if Pope Francis is espousing anything more substantive than the ordinary beliefs of millions of liberals all over the world and it's not as if anyone goes around saying liberals are "so fricken awesome".
church. He is serving to get his troops in order and to bring back the wayward flocks. In this, I think his new PR spins are working. As your excellent research has shown NOTHING in that church has changed, it's all smoke and mirrors. When he dies he will immediately be promoted to sainthood and the myth will continue 
