Windows 8 hates you.

[byronius]

It's out to get us all. In fact, it's a perfect metaphor for our Modern Problem.

Microsoft is full of good people, many of whom probably worked on this operating system. However, someone in control of the basic concept pursued these goals above all else:

1) Pressure the consumer to purchase other Microsoft products.

2) Make things easier for Microsoft.

3) Save Microsoft money.

4) Try to subvert and replace Microsoft's competition.

5) Make the customer bend to the will of Microsoft as Microsoft employees do.

I swear that my experience with this platform has left me astounded. It is the most arrogant and incompetent operating system I have ever used, and I go back to DOS. I skipped Vista, however, and from what I read, I was lucky.

Windows 7's okay. Not bad. But 8 and 8.1 are corporate culture clues -- sociopaths at work. Sociopaths in power. People who insist that consumers must be shaped and molded to fit the needs of the company. That's who made this product.

Sales are apparently flat as a pancake, as bad as Vista's. Good. I'm glad. Because this operating system has inflicted harm on my business and consumed unnecessary gobs of my limited time, and I won't forgive easily, if ever. One would think such a product would be impossible to design and release. Someone must have known, somewhere along the line. Poor soul must have been writhing in silence the entire time.

To leave a comment with Microsoft, I'd have to waste another hour going through their support tree. Not going to bother.

[cherokeeprogressive]

1. Get. Fucking. Real. Windows 8 doesn't even KNOW me.

[BlueStreak]

36. Actually it does. It practically forces you to have a live account

active with Microsoft, just to log on. They are trying their best to force customers to assimilate into their marketing program where they dictate how you will work and what apps you will be permitted to use. I have a notebook that runs the thing. It is only useable after 8.1 and after installing the Start8 tool to get away from that damned cell phone interface. I have no use for any of the damned tiles they wanted to make me stare at. Do they think I am a 14-year-old schoolgirl or something? Christ Almighty, these people couldn't mismanage that company worse.

[SoapBox]

59. Do they think we 14 year old schoolgirls?

Why yes.......they do.

And 10 year old, slack jawed, music blasting, "gaming" boys.

They don't give a crap about anyone over 15.

[hobbit709]

76. No it doesn't. It just makes the option NOT to harder to find.

Windows 8 works if you spend 3 hours tweaking it, installing Classic Shell, and removing the crapware on a prebuilt system.

[dchill]

229. In other words...

Windows 8 works if you do.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. All of this is why I didn't buy one.

I wanted Win 7 on my new laptop. I already have that on my desktop, and I like it a lot.

Of course, all the stores had was Win 8.

So, I went online to get my new Lenovo with Win 7 and voila! I got it.

And I will keep it for the foreseeable future, until Windows won't support it any more ...

What I don't understand is why so many people bought Win 8, knowing what we all know about how lousy it is.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

5. I suspect Windows 7 will be supported for awhile

It's some of us who still have an old horse with XP that will be left to die early in '14.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

8. I sure hope so!

I saw that they weren't going to support XP much longer, and I decided to jump.

I am really glad I did!

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

11. Quick question?

Did you get your laptop cheaper because it had 7 instead of 8?

My laptop's motherboard may have just died and I may have to buy a totally new laptop. I had 7 on that and would love to find another with it....and if it's cheaper....even better.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

14. Hey, no problem!

And I have no idea. I didn't do any comparison pricing.

My Lenovo wasn't cheap. I think I spent around $600 for it. It's a ThinkPad, model L530.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

16. No, thanks anyhow.

$600 is a little more than I'd want to spend, I was just curious but I also wouldn't be shocked if there's actually a premium on Windows 7 in some places.

I don't know much about Lenovo.

[Left Coast2020]

46. You should have gone to Tiger Direct or New Egg.com

At least half than what you paid for that Lenovo. I was looking for a Win 7 desktop last week. About $300 from what I remember on Tiger Direct. I think I saw one for $257, but that may have been a laptop.

Oh, and by the way, Lenovo is a Chinese company. Not American. Not European.

Chinese.

[2naSalit]

49. I got an

ASUS at Amazon with Win7 and an option to get 8 for free anytime... and I haven't. It was $300 19 months ago. My old unit has XP and I still use it for offline stuff, it crashed but I reformatted it and it works just fine as long as I don't go online with it. This one can be annoying but I'm glad I never chose to download 8. Now that I'm used to it, I'm okay with 7 but I never really liked Windows all that much.

I still haven't forgiven Windows for screwing up a long paper I was writing in school once, it was a twelve page outline and Word decided to renumber everything for me when I was working on page eleven the night before my presentation so that every topic started with 1, a, 1, a all the way down the page on every page. I had been a typesetter previously and used Corel WordPerfect and Aldus Pagemaker (now Adobe) prior to school and Windows... they didn't rename all the typesetting jargon! Windows, with all it's school dropout nerd programming writers, renamed everything regarding typesetting terminology because they didn't know what they were working with... a very old trade with it's own standards and language that they knew nothing about. Grrr.

Anyway, I have a nice laptop that runs Win7 and it wasn't a lot of $$ at Amazon, and it has everything, but I stil hate Windows for a lot of it programming and limitations that are inherent with their OSs.

[Lordquinton]

64. Oh, they know

They hate it and want to "rebrand" it to their jargon so it becomes the standard and everybody uses their words. Like how they got together and set up Web standards, then promptly ignored them for internet explorer.

[2naSalit]

121. And that's why I

never use Explorer either. I use an Adobe product for word processing to not be annoyed by Windows. And that was all BG's business model, which stills lives on even though he's no longer actually driving the bus.

[Cha]

28. Good to know.. guess I'll be changing over to

the next windows phase whether I like it not!

[hobbit709]

77. Just because they don't support it doesn't mean it will magically stop working.

It will probably work better by not being constantly screwed up by some update.
I know someone who has an ancient Compaq laptop with Win95 on it. It does what she wants(word processor) and works just fine

Out of the 200 plus patches, fixes and updates on XP, I use about 10 of them with problems.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

206. There will no longer be defenses against Windows XP specific viruses....

....that's the fear.

[hobbit709]

207. What defenses? Windoze has crap for defenses.

I don't use more than 10 of all the patches for XP on my XP machine and I don't get viruses. Most are gotten by the ID ten T error.
"I thought I had virus protection when I clicked on it" is something I hear all the time. I point out that if you click on it you just gave it permission and you are now 5 minutes too late to stop it.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

208. I actually think Microsoft Security Essentials is pretty good

It's caught anything that's managed to seep through.

[hobbit709]

211. One of the few things they've done that works without being a resource hog.

But even then it doesn't help when the idiot at the controls goofs.

[Jackpine Radical]

107. I still have 3 old XP boxes that see occasional use for specialized purposes, but

I jumped to Mac in honor of Vista, and have never looked back. I don't even try to go online with those old Windows machines.

I keep one old test-scoring program around that I wrote in a DOS Basic (GWBASIC), and still use it a couple of times a year. I have to keep an ancient machine with a parallel port running in order to use that program, running it in a DOS window. Also there are some other personality test programs I use that have no Mac versions, so I need Windows to run them.

If it weren't for those considerations, I would have junked out all my Windows machines years ago.

I'm no Fanboy (I don't think they even let you in the club at age 69) and in fact see Apple as another evil giant in the world, but running Apple stuff (MB Pro, MB Air, iPad Mini, iPhone) just makes my life easier because everything hooks together the way it should. My calendar and email coordinate across everything. I don't get viruses. The machines don't crash and don't break. When they put Retina displays on MB Airs, I'll probably spring for a new one.Or maybe I'll hold off for another year.

[LiberalArkie]

209. Get a copy of Parallels... I use it on my macs when I have to do something in Windows.

It sees all your ports and will allow windows access to then if you want it to. And neat trick is you can have windows open in parallels and highlight something and then paste it into a mac program.

I thought I had to have a windows machine, but I don't any more.
BTW I am wanting a Mac Pro. I know, dreaming again.

[Jackpine Radical]

213. I know about Parallels, Boot Camp, etc. but haven't gotten any to work right.

And there seem to be some programs they won't run.

[LiberalArkie]

224. With boot camp you actually boot into windows and should run anything windows will run

Parallels is actually a virtual machine running under OSX. There are some hardware specific programs that will not run. Things that need a dongle and such things. I run Visual Basic with windows under Parallels with no problem. I tried Vmware and did not like it, but Parallels 8 runs like a top for me. It did allow me to get rid of my old pc that I had for running Visual Basic on. The parallels folks tend to put out a new version every year and it does keep getting better each year.

[tblue37]

168. I never went Apple because I HATE having to waste time learning a new OS.

In fact, I had XP on all my computers except the one the university put in my office, which ran W7. I hated having to use it because I disliked working with W7.

Right about the time I knew I really needed to get a new computer MS came out with W8, and I realized that if I bought a new PC, I would have to get W8.

So now my desktop is an iMac. I am not crazy about the Apple OS, but everything I have read makes me feel certain that I would seriously hate W8.

[LiberalArkie]

210. Nothing to learn really, it is very intuitive. Like an iPhone.

The Mac OSX is Berkley Unix. Unix just works.

[krispos42]

3. Still on XP

Decade-old Dell.


From my cold, dead hands...


Just got a 1 TB external drive, because I guess IDE drives max out at 200 gig or so, and I already have 3 of them!

[arcane1]

10. Me too, happily so. XP has its limitations, but it is still better.

At work, we moved to Windows 7 earlier this year. The IE browser fails when we go to our own home page, because of that "compatibility" thing. Fortunately, I have admin rights, so my PC has Firefox

I showed everyone in my department how to install Taskbar Tweaker and Classic Shell, because the XP method was much much better.

[BainsBane]

19. I turned my work computer in to have something fixed

It had XP on it. When they gave it back to me, Windows 7 was on there. I don't like it. XP is much better, but nothing compares to this monstrosity that is Windows 8.

[arcane1]

20. 7 kind of works better, but the user interface is worse.

I had to install Taskbar Tweaker, Classic Shell, and God Mode in order to make Windows 7 more user-friendly.

[mahina]

48. XP isn't going to be supported after April 2014.

Sucks.

[Common Sense Party]

58. I hate hate HATE Windows 7 with a fiery passion.

I cannot find a damn thing that I want. And why couldn't they just leave the Office suite programs alone? It takes me six times as long to do the same thing in PowerPoint now, because I'm constantly hunting for the right button to click.

I've only seen a bit of Windows 8, on my daughter's tablet, and I want nothing to do with it.

[B Calm]

72. I miss windows XP! It was tons better than 7, but

compared to 8, I'll take 7!

[Brainstormy]

114. I liked 7, but 8

is killing me.

[TexasProgresive]

73. That's my complaint

Whatever the current version of Office is horrendous. It forces the operator to take additional steps to do the simplest things. And that's after hunting around to find it. I don't use power point at work but use EXCEL and WORD extensively. If the IT gods would allow me, I would use Open Office. But they Looovvve MicroSoft.

[RobinA]

128. I'm With You

I HAD to get a laptop, so I was forced to get 7. I had just cooled down (although I'm still boiling at all the CRAP that machine throws at you when you are just trying to do some simple task. No, I do not want to make Google my home page!!!) over that when 8 came out and I heard how bad it was. My sister got a laptop with 8 last Christmas, and after two people struggled with it for the rest of Christmas and most of the next day they took it back to the store for a 7. This summer, after ignoring my mostly defunct XP desktop for a year, I decided that if I wanted a desktop, I better snag one of the few 7s left. At that time, HP still had 7 machines. I still hate 7, but it sure beats 8.

I, too, had the work experience where they decided to "up"grade us to 7. Bleccchhh. Of all the out of date crap we have around here, they pick THAT to stay up to date on.

[Gore1FL]

183. 7 64 bit is excellent if your sys admin is worth a crap. n/t

[MFM008]

4. vista

was heaven compared to 8. I hate 8.

[TroglodyteScholar]

9. I wiped and set up a friend's machine recently, and put Vista on it...

It was a pleasant contrast with my more...eh...recent Microshaft experiences.

[Left Coast2020]

47. Thats what I'm on now is Vista. And Before I left for China had Vista

But power supply on previous Vista did something to motherboard, so I had to (gulp) use an old XP machine.

But I was running out of HD space. Ran into someone who had a machine they wanted to get rid of with Vista, and Volla! I'm back with Vista.

But I don't understand some of the complaints people have about it--in the past.

I haven't noticed any weird glitches. Been fine for me.

Oh, BTW, can someone with Vista tell me (PM) how I get the window switcher to switch?

Its just bringing up a small window for choices to click on--opposed to bringing up all active windows or folders to sort through via ctrl>arrow left or right. Looked in control panel and didn't see icon.

[TroglodyteScholar]

87. When Vista was new...

...it was more demanding than a lot of hardware could handle smoothly. Coupled with the PITA UAC warnings and all the pre-service pack bugs, is no surprise out was a disaster. But on modern hardware it's basically fine, like a stripped-down version of 7....

[newfie11]

81. I agree

I heard all the complaints about vista but really never had a problem with it.

This crappy windows 8
I now have is a pile of junk.

It's a Mac for me next time. I've had it!

[lindysalsagal]

221. Me, too. Vista's ok but it will be the next one to not be supported. So we're an endangered species.

I'm hoping this laptop hangs in there until windows 9 (or, whatever they'll call it) becomes the norm, so I can skip 8 altogether.
I'm all pc at work, and the macs are too expensive, so, I can't go there, as good as it is.

[arcane1]

6. Windows is on the vast majority of all officeplace PCs, and they will NEVER switch to Windows 8

Never ever EVER!

[Brainstormy]

113. You can't buy a new PC with a Windows os

that isn't 8. You can still order, from Dell for example, a Windows 7 pc, but in the general retail marketplace there's no choice.

[bluestate10]

171. That is the rub. May be the OP thought that Windows caused that, but the OEMs, in their

haste to bend to Microsoft shouldn't be let off the hook. It has gotten to the point where OEMs won't provide copies of software anymore, they just send a PC buyer a fucking product code number.

[Gore1FL]

184. Guess again.

I have a deployable Win 8 image created. I'll work on a 8.1 once I get the KMS license updated for 2012R2.

It sucks. I know it sucks. But it has a higher number. Therefore my management demands it, even against my recommendations.

[arcane1]

194. We switched from XP to 7 this past summer

I'm hoping we remain behind the curve for a while longer

[Gore1FL]

197. I made the mistake of rolling out Windows 7 very early.

(Actually I am quite proud of it, and don;t consider it a mistake at all.)

We were deploying 7 in production in January 2010 for offices. I had the much more complicated labs image in Beta in March of that year. We were full blown Win 7 on all incoming (and re-imaged) devices by August 2010.

They'll get what they ask for... At least Win 8.1 shows a little better nod to the Enterprise, but I haven't screwed with it meaningfully yet.

The crazy thing is Server 2012. (I haven't seen 2012R2 yet so I don't know if this still applied, but it probably does.) It has charms. That's right. A server has charms--just like freaking Metro/ModernUI/Whatever they are calling it these days. It does boot to desktop, but there is metro behavior. I guess Microsoft bought a touch-screen KVM company or something.

But I digress in my rant...

[TroglodyteScholar]

7. Never been a better time to change to linux...

[BadgerKid]

21. And put Windows on a virtual machine

[SpcMnky]

26. You can do that on a mac as well

if there is a need to run some windows programs.

[mahina]

50. That's what I was thinking too…are you serious though?

[TroglodyteScholar]

88. I've made the switch

The one piece of software that was keeping me on Win will run almost perfectly under Wine. Netflix and Amazon Instant Video can new troublesome under Linux, but there are ways to work through those issues...

Linux is still not necessarily ready to be the desktop OS for the masses, but it has come a remarkable way in a short period of time. I have for computers running in my home, and only one of them has a bootable Windows drive...and I'm happy as can be.

[Egalitarian Thug]

144. Linux is more than ready for over 90% of the desktops out there. In fact, for the

things that most people spend their computer time doing, Linux is better, faster, far more secure, and doesn't require financing every couple of years.

Both Mint and Ubuntu are literally plug and play for well over 99% or the configurations out there, especially brand name systems.

[TroglodyteScholar]

190. There are some problems to overcome still

But yes...for basic email, Web browsing, music listening, word processing....it's all there.

[Egalitarian Thug]

214. That's 100% of what 99+% of people do. As far as the problems, they exist because M$

refuses to play by any rules and uses every tool at its disposal to block everybody else.

[TroglodyteScholar]

228. Agree...

But that's the facts.

I will work to steer clear of Microsoft, but most people don't have the time, intellect, or inclination to experiment with something different, whether it has merit or not...

I worry that linux is destined to stay in the arena of admins and hobbyists, but I do hope it will continue its recent upward swing...

[LeftOfSelf-Centered]

233. About music listening...

The music listening is fine; the music library management is a nightmare!

I have searched high and low for a Linux music player that doesn't make me want to fire it out of a cannon into the sun. I want it to do one simple thing: Display my music library ordered alphabetically by artist, and have each artist's albums ordered chronologically. So far I've yet to find a music player that does that, even though to me it's the most obvious thing they should be doing (maybe I'm weird?).

I have iTunes on my Win7 machine and was never a big fan, but I needed it for my iPod classic. After my trek through the Linux player landscape I have to give iTunes credit for at least displaying my library the way I want it.

You don't, by any chance, have any suggestions? (I've tried Rhythmbox, Clementine and a few others and finally settled on Nightingale) Thanks.

[TroglodyteScholar]

238. Afraid I'm no help

I've always been the type to avoid applications that try to manage my collection for me...so I just use VLC, which is clean and super basic...

[defacto7]

60. True!

I haven't run anything but Linux in my house since probably 2000 and I've never regretted it. Guess I missed all the MS drama.. at least at home.

[spinbaby]

89. +1

Why go Microsoft when it can be so easily avoided?

[L0oniX]

129. When XP ends people will have to decide. They could install Ubuntu on a 2nd drive...

and then use Wine to run .exe's from the windows drive. Works for me and the wife. Been using Ubuntu 12.4 LTS since it came out. Used to run FreeBSD before that all the while keeping XP on the other drive.

[SpcMnky]

12. Windows seems to be their own worst enemy

They are not as sophisticated as Apple is in creating an "eco-system"... it takes years to build one, and the people have to choose to participate, not be forced to.

Time for new leadership over there.

[BlueJazz]

13. 8.1 is good. it makes my computer go microsoft is on our side

[GoCubsGo]

132. Yup. Even better with Classic Shell installed.

It allows one to forgo the tile crap altogether. It also boots up and shuts down far quicker than previous Windows versions. Yeah, 8/8.1 isn't perfect, but it's nowhere near as horrible as everyone is making it out to be.

[Common Sense Party]

136. Do they have Classic Shell for Office?

I just want Word and Excel and PowerPoint the way they USED to be. Back when I didn't have to click on five menus to find the button I want.

[GoCubsGo]

137. No. It's to make Windows 8 more like previous versions.

The only way you'll get Office to be the way it used to be is to install an old version and get rid of the current one. I agree that the current versions suck. Of course, I think Office sucks, in general, and always has. I prefer Word Perfect suite. I have Office 2003. I fucking hate it, and don't use it unless I have to. My 15 year-old Word Perfect suite works fine for my needs. If I ever get the means, I will upgrade it, but for now, I am lucky that I don't need to do that.

[BlueJazz]

178. Very true...I hear a lot of people bitchin' about it but mine works great !

[Gore1FL]

185. There are much better options than classic shell.

"Start is Back" is a payfor version of this free one: http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/35189-Windows-7-explorer-for-Windows-8

Even the free version gives you a true functional Win7 shell--not just a semi-knockoff with limited function.

[GoCubsGo]

203. Thanks!

I'll have to check that one out!

[lumberjack_jeff]

15. classic shell

http://www.classicshell.net/

It's not completely intolerable after you fix the UI.

[arcane1]

17. And Taskbar Tweaker!!!

Getting back Quick Launch and the UP button, ah what a great day that was

[840high]

151. Where is it and

how did you do it?

[arcane1]

164. Here's the site:

http://rammichael.com/7-taskbar-tweaker

Download and install it, and you can change some of your taskbar settings, with more options than you get from Windows (including reverting back to XP style).

There's also a demo video at the link

[840high]

235. Thank you.

[Gore1FL]

186. See post 185. Classic shell isn't the best choice. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

187. YMMV. I'm not paid to promote Classic Shell, but I don't see anything in StartIsBack to prefer it.

Whatever floats your boat. Anything that improves gets rid of the metro interface is an improvement.

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/stardock_start8_vs_classic_shell2013?page=0,1

[Gore1FL]

189. I use the free one

Boot to desktop. It's exactly the Win 7 interface.

[BainsBane]

18. Microsoft is engaged in a conspiracy to destroy America

One operating system at a time. XP was fine. Worked well, but that could not stand. They had to come out with Windows 7, just to torment users. Now they've finally gone all out with Windows 8. Apps. Who needs fucking apps on a home computer? And why are on this weird other level of the computer? I tried to use the Internet Explorer App and it told me the App couldn't handle what I was doing so I needed to "go to the desktop." So what is the point of even having Apps?

Then I can't figure out how to shut down a program without going to the task manager. There is no x anywhere. Is there some other way or do I really have to open Task Manager every time?

It constantly gets disconnected from the internet. Why?

Lastly, how on God's earth do you turn off the damn computer?

This only confirms that despite his disguise as a philanthropist, Bill Gates truly is the most evil man in the world. Why else would he insist on tormenting us?

[AtheistCrusader]

33. I hope this was a joke.

BillG hasn't worked at Microsoft for years

Win8 is built for touch interface. Selling it in that config for desktops, obviously, has not been well received, on the other hand.

[BainsBane]

43. Half reality, half parody

If it doesn't work for normal computers, they shouldn't put in on them.

[HereSince1628]

75. I close programs by sweeping them off the bottom of the screen.

I don't know if that's what the designer expected, but that's what seems to work.

I don't have any type of mobile phone, so I had no clue about how things might work.

I got the idea of trying to wipe things off the screen after watching an elementary aged kid on the bus use his telephone.

[BainsBane]

85. My computer is not touch

[HereSince1628]

86. Neither is mine...I point at the top of the screen with the mouse

just as I would if I wanted to move a windows box, then click and hold as I drag it off the bottom

Mostly I've done that when looking at photos. Which reminds me, I still can't find whatever replaced the photo tools from XP

[BainsBane]

104. Oh, I've found that.

It's the little roll of film on the bottom left.

[Le Taz Hot]

22. And I hate it right back.

Had to get a new laptop a few months back and the only thing available was Windows 8. Six months later I'm still struggling to find shit. I JUST now found "Favorites" and it was buried but good. The "off" button is under the "Settings" "Charm." WTF! I purchased the MS Office Suite for Windows 8. I've tried probably 6 different times to install it and it refuses to install. Windows 8 gets my vote for worst. operating. system. ever.

[EC]

39. I wanted to do a

backup on a flash drive and couldn't even find any way to do it. In the on line guide there is a video, but I can't even find the first place they said to start.

[darkangel218]

179. You are not thinking like Microsoft thinks

Who would buy a new OS if the present one was working?? Duh!! Now you will upgrade to the next, since the present one sucks balls ( excuse my language ), and you are not allowed to downgrade to 7.

Don't you care about Microsoft's pocket book?? What kind of costumer are you? Tsk tsk!!

[madrchsod]

23. they have a history of releasing crap then releasing something worth keeping

for what i use a computer for i could still use X.

[Egalitarian Thug]

150. It goes like this: Release really crappy software, than follow that with

marginally functional software so that you will believe it's good by comparison.

M$ has never, ever once in its entire history, ever released the best software in any category. The best they've ever done is to steal or buy someone else's application and repackage it as their own (excel is the best example, IMO).

[loudsue]

24. I'm typing this on my Apple laptop....

lovin' it.

My desk top PC is Windows XP....runs like a top. I was thinking about an upgrade to a new PC w/ Windows, but I have heard too many friends telling horror stories that I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Why spend several weeks trying to get something to work that is designed to fail so that I have to spend more money?

No thanks.

[darkangel218]

182. Apparently you wont be able to use XP past 2014.

[dionysus]

212. you can use it, there will be no more technical support.

[whopis01]

226. When you say Windows runs like a top,

do you mean it starts out nice and stable, then after a while it starts getting a bit wobbly until it goes completely out of control, falls down and comes to a stop forcing you to have to restart it?

[LisaL]

25. Sure does.

My computer is old and slow. But I am not buying a new one because of windows 8.

[bhikkhu]

27. And I hate it back

I have one computer running windows, and its a feeble, sickly piece of crap. It ran ok for a little while, then the viruses and whatever barely fixable other things set in. On a decent hardware platform, it still barely runs, and its self-diagnostics are worthless. I need it to run autocad, otherwise I'd switch it over to Linux like my others.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

29. yep. sucks lemons and spits out seeds. Hate It.

[tridim]

92. Why?

Please provide a real answer. Thanks.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

109. I personallydon't like the way the screen changes when I hover. I don't like the tiles.

I don't like that it won't accept my passwords. I don't like the way the screen just decides to mysteriously change to something else when I am in the middle of typing.

[tridim]

149. I don't like the tiles either...

Which is why I'm glad ALL of my work is done on the desktop, not Metro.

What passwords wont it accept?

I've never experienced "screens changing to something else" while typing. Can you explain that in a little more detail?

Which screen is changing? What does the screen change to? Where are you typing when that happens?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

152. here is part of the issue

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10959025

I don't know how to explain the screen changing and the pops up time and icon window when I hover over the finger pad.

[greatlaurel]

30. Worst operating system ever

When my son is home on break, we will wipe my laptop and I will learn Linux. I can do nothing except surf the internet on this laptop and it is darn near impossible to do that. Cannot get a word processing program to download, so I can do simple letters.

I will never buy a machine with microsoft software installed on it ever again. Fool me once. Bill Gates and his morons could not find their way out of a paper bag. The only way he became a wealthy man had to involve nefarious deeds, as his software is crap.

Cannot say how infuriated I am about windows 8 and it has been six months since I bought my laptop.

[MyshkinCommaPrince]

31. Could it be worse than Windows Vista?

Vista really hated me. I hated it right back, with a vengeance. Rotten OS experience, that one.

I've wondered if the explanation for Vista was that Microsoft's main concern was releasing a new version with better control over bootleg copies than XP had. Apparently bootleg Windows XP running in China and/or India (or... someplace... umm) has cut into their potential profits. There was a news article about the compatibility troubles resulting from so many old copies of XP still being used in places where Microsoft can't directly guard their intellectual property rights as they can here, IIRC. Pretty sure there was, unless I dreamed it. I can at least understand why they would release something like Vista, if that was the case. They don't seem to have been focused on improved user experience or better accessibility.

Windows 8 scares me. I like 7 just fine. Why do they keep bolluxing it up? Grumble. (I should note that I liked Windows ME just fine, and resisted XP for years. So, y'know, there's a history, whether that means anything or not....)

[Spitfire of ATJ]

45. XP will probably go down in history as one of the greats. And I'm on Linux.

[jeff47]

122. Yes, it can. And it is.

The main problem with Vista was it was a massive resource hog. MS cranked up how much CPU and disk the operating system took in order to help sell more new computers - a "normal" user that just uses Office and the web had no reason to upgrade their hardware. It could already do everything they needed. No new hardware was creating a problem for PC manufacturers. Also, most people don't buy a new operating system unless they buy new hardware, so MS needed to keep PC manufacturers happy.

So they designed Vista to require a lot more horsepower, but then freaked out over the high minimum system requirements. So they lowered the requirements in the documentation...but not in the software.

So Vista comes out, and a whole lot of people at the bottom of the requirements run into trouble. And so Vista got a bad reputation.

But Windows 8 is Microsoft's attempt to push Windows Mobile. Since they were so far behind Apple and Android in mobile, someone in Microsoft had the "brilliant" idea that if they made all of their operating systems similar, that would help sell Windows Mobile. They even revamped the XBox 360 operating system to look like Windows Mobile.

Unfortunately for that moron at Microsoft, different devices are used in different ways. What works great on a tablet works terribly on a desktop. Tiles and only one window are good on a tablet. They're awful on a desktop. And there's a host of other things that are good for mobile, terrible for desktop.

It all adds up to a wretched abomination that is Windows 8. I recommend all non-tech-savvy friends switch to MacOS, and the ones who are tech savvy switch to MacOS or Linux depending on what they like.

[bobduca]

127. Yes they didnt understand what is good about Apple's ecosystem

Apple tries at least to understand how people will use something and they used to do lots of good usability studies in R&D. This research feeds into apple's product design.

Steve Balmer gave Sinofsky (the VP in charge of windows 7) way too much power to be the top-down dictator they thought Jobs was. He aced the windows 7 release so they all thought he was the guy to transform the user interface of the company etc. etc. But taking vista to windows 7 was a cakewalk, so they thought he was a genius for nailing an easy release. He wasnt a genius.

What they forgot was Apple actually paid attention to user studies, did real user interaction research and produce well built software and hardware (more or less)

MS just said lets timebox the UI changes, give Sinofsky absolute power to override any internal resistance from smart people inside microsoft who could see the disaster, and voila, we have windows 8.

IMO, The single most epic User interface failure known to man.

[BainsBane]

198. So much worse, you have no idea

[Stargazer09]

32. I bought a super cheap PC laptop

It came with Windows 8. All I wanted it to do was run a few very simple programs for my ham radio. That is ALL that computer had to do.

Now, I used to be "that computer geek friend" that everyone came to when they had problems running Windows (3.1 to Vista). I transitioned to Macs in the late 1990's, but my husband is a hardcore PC user, so I kept up with the informal tech support for quite some time.

I expected a little bit of a learning curve, going back to the PC world, even though it was only to run those little programs. I found out that Windows 8 is a completely useless operating system. I couldn't get it to do what I wanted, and after nearly throwing the computer across the room, I finally decided to let the kids have the laptop for surfing the internet. That's all anyone can do with that system.

Bottom line, I feel your pain, and I agree with you 100%.

[AtheistCrusader]

34. I think it works great.

Memory footprint is better, storage spaces works great. UI is better in 8.1 though. Especially if you're using multiple monitors.

[geckosfeet]

35. I will not buy a system with Windows 8.x on it.

It would be immediately wiped and Windows 7 would be installed.

I was looking at laptops recently - no sale MS.

[bobduca]

37. There are more installs of 7 still after almost 2 years of 8/8.1

My desktop rig is running windows 7 until make the touch bullshit optional.

[sakabatou]

38. They worst I had was ME

*shudder*

[hobbit709]

78. 8 is worse and 8.1 just put a bandaid on the gaping wound.

[Aviation Pro]

40. Bought a Surface Pro 2 with Windows 8.1

Took about two hours to figure out the interface and how to access the programs (not apps) and the classic Desktop. So far, no problems and the tiled GUI doesn't get in the way. It will become my laptop replacement - which is running Windows 7 - for travel since it's 1/6th the weight of the i7 chip machine.

I can see why people have a beef with MS changing its OS strategy to accommodate mobile devices, but frankly after three plus decades of using computers it's just another program to me.

[GoCubsGo]

134. That's how I feel about it, too.

I've used punch cards, main frames, UNIX, DOS, Macs... Regardless of what the software is, be it the OS, word processors, spread sheets, graphics and statistics software, or whatever, there's always a learning curve when it comes to upgrades. Some steeper than others. I'll admit that the tile thing in Win8 is idiotic for laptops and desktops, but it's really not that difficult to work around it. All one has to do is go to Google, where there are all sorts of tweaks--just as there are tweaks for XP, Win7...

[RC]

202. You should not have to tweak it.

The Operating System should know, when loaded on the machine, whether it is a touch screen or not. Plus have an easy to get to check box or radio button to be set the way you want it. Microsoft did no such thing.

[GoCubsGo]

204. I agree.

Microsoft totally screwed up in that regard. I find it shocking that nobody there thought of this, or if they did, that they refused to do anything about it. I can't believe it would be all that difficult to program what you suggest into the software.

[bobduca]

219. Oh they knew it was a horrible touch-only mess

But MS Management mistakenly believed that was how Apple does it , just FORCE users to accept it.
While there is some degree of absolutism in how Apple decides *you* will use their computers, at least their OS and apps have been tested and tweaked for usability. ( iTunes being the glaring exception to that rule... )

From what I've gathered, plenty of folks within Microsoft including the phone team tried to warn management.
And forcing desktop applications to be second-class citizens in Windows was clearly a strategy to shift windows users to their use their store, a distant 3rd in the app store race.

I agree with those who have said win8/8.1 should be smart enough to detect if your system has no touchscreen and revert to win7 style mouse for all functionality. The amount of vertical over-mousing to reach touch-optimized controls in settings for instance is just ridiculous. Also I don't want to touch my screen all day. For instance the Lenovo Yoga is a nice machine, but if you try and use it for touch in laptop mode it wobbles for 1-2 seconds after every 'tap'.

For contrast... almost 2 years since win8 was announced and OSX and iOS are still separate, and will remain so for the forseeable future. The miserable adoption rates of win8/8.1 is testament to the success of alienating non-touch users, while OSX Mavericks was released for free, with desktop, a mouse, and no ridiculous tiles. Their 'desktop' apps /widgets ecosystem is entirely optional.

[MuseRider]

41. Oddly I don't mind it at all.

I don't do probably near as much as many of you because it is just my at home computer. Learning it. Switched from my hated Mac to this. So far I can find most things and really the only thing I find annoying is that it is obviously for a touch screen.

So far so good anyway.......

[area51]

42. I'm definitely feeling

Windows H8.

And I hate Windows 2012 too.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

44. Not to mention the default is zero anonymity....

I clicked the map tile and it asked if I wanted to use my current location as the default so I clicked "Ok" and it centered on the HOUSE.

Not the town in general but the actual HOUSE I was in.

I felt like a streaker at a dart tournament.

[Warpy]

51. Most of the people I know who have it dislike it

I still think they should have kept XP going, it was the best OS they've ever had.

When all my Win7 machines give up the ghost, I suppose I'll go to Linux.

[cer7711]

52. F-ck MS! Time to Go Open-source On Everything

Last edited Fri Dec 6, 2013, 03:50 AM - Edit history (1)

Stick it to MS if they're going to be this jack-assedly (that's a word; I swear) ham-handed in their efforts to ram absolute shite down our PC-using throats.

[L0oniX]

133. Open source will kill Windows and MS knows it. That's why they've been fighting it...

for so long. Now with Android people are realizing what open source can do for a device.

[Fuddnik]

53. Rule of thumb. Every other Microsoft system SUCKS! The next version fixes the previous.

Win 95 came out, and it was a groundbreaker. Nothing to compare it to.

Win98 was great. Loved it!

Then they came out with WinME. Had it on my computer for about 3 days, before I wiped it and re-installed 98!

Then came XP. Even better. Loved it! Unfortunately, they followed with Vista! Sucked really bad. But, it's still better than WIN8.

Then came WIN7. Not that great, but livable.

Now, this asshole thing they call Windows 8. Nope. No Way. No How. It even looked fucked up right out of the gate.

So, I have 3 computers. Two running Win7, and one still on Vista. If I could figure out how to get Linux to work on them, I'd cut Microshit off completely, in a heartbeat.

[Prophet 451]

57. You beat me to it

The only reason I upgraded from XP to 7 is because XP couldn't handle my new hardware.

[The Second Stone]

54. I agree with everything the OP stated

I will never buy another Microsoft product. Microsoft's move to Windows 8 and a subscription Office was not to my benefit, nor my business' benefit.

I will never buy a subscription productivity pack like Office. I now use Open Office. The price was right, as in free.

I will never put another Microsoft operating system on a computer I build. Never, never, never. What a colossal fucking turd Windows 8 is.

[awoke_in_2003]

55. All windows OSs are incompetent...

I don't know how many times I did a three finger salute to bring up "Task Manager" to kill a program, and was told "Windows cannot close this program". Why the hell not? Who is in charge, the program or the operating system? Unix, Linux, and BSD use the "kill -t (process #)" command. Apple, with BSD at its core, does the same. Operating systems should be in charge, but they don't appear to be with Winblows.

[montex]

56. I have a Mac...

...so I'm really getting a kick out of all these replies.

[defacto7]

61. Mac is quite a sight better that M$ that's for sure.

But you know, it's just Linux with feathers and a price tag. Unix actually.

[Shankapotomus]

70. You're comparing hardware to software

Not to mention you are paying for a marked difference in hardware quality between an Apple computer and its less expensive rivals. I've never had keys falling off an Apple keyboard as I do with other computers.

Additionally, in the software department, Apple's most recent OS - Mavericks - is an entirely free download.

[defacto7]

231. That's a humorous comment.

I'm not paying for anything other than specific hardware of my choosing at 10% of the cost of Apple products and I've never had a key fall any of a hundred different machines I've owned or operated... except the last 2 Apple products I owned. Although that was back when Apple was an innovation of it's own making, before it died and became an advertising scheme. And I really didn't have a problem with a couple of keys falling off then because the product really was innovative and actually was their own invention. You're talking keys???

Downloading an OS is not an issue. The point I was making is that the Apple OSs, all of them, are simply Unix like Linux or a number of other OS brands; it's BSD Unix. Apple hardware is something you brought up. Apple has fairly good service but one shouldn't need service anyway. Service is for machines that need it and people may do better to think for themselves; it's not that difficult. As for the hardware, it is no better... again, no better than what you can buy for a great deal less from other manufacturers. The style is taken (literally) from Braun of the 1990s.

You can lighten up. I'm not doing a expose on Apple vs. anything. My original comment was light play for fun, not meant to offend. I've written a great deal on the subject but it's not productive. Things just are what they are and business ownership of intellectual property has dug its own pit. It's not a pit I will ever fall into. I think that brings us back to the OP.

[A Simple Game]

62. Can't be you ever used Millennium. I'm not sure it even qualified as an operating system. n/t

[Tab]

63. It's okay. I hate Windows 8 too.

Every few versions Microsoft triies to come up with something that is supposed to be "popular" but is really just crap layered on top of crap. Windows ME (Millenial Edition) comes to mind, as does Vista, and certainly now, the front-runner "Windows 8" or Azure or whatever they're calling it now. The only 3 really stable editions were Windows 3.1x, Windows XP, and Windows 7 (forgetting the servers). At lleast Apple *used* to know what the consumer wanted before they knew it themselves - Microsoft only figures it out after the fact.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

65. I think your definition of "two" may be slightly different to mine... N.T.

[CountAllVotes]

66. Still on an old ThinkPad A31 2652

and she still goes, maybe not as fast as she once did, but she stil goes -- 12 years now.

That is a very good record I'd say.

They can pry XP Pro from my cold dead hands as well.

[ucrdem]

67. Windows Meth

I knew there was something wrong in Redmond when the help screen started talking about invisible charms.

[randome]

80. "Charms." "Wizards." "Favorites" instead of "Bookmarks." "My" this, "My" that.

Icons in every fucking menu item that serve no purpose but to distract.

It's a vast dumbing down system that you have to work at to resist.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[Cresent City Kid]

105. I'm with you

There's something wrong when phrases like "Go to your my documents" are used. My 2 peeves involve the notifications at the bottom. One screams that A NETWORK CABLE IS UNPLUGGED! when you only have one computer. Then when you want a network you have to jump through hoops to set it up, even with the "wizard". I also hate when they have the nerve to notify you that you have unused icons on your desktop. I put them there for a reason, you don't tell me I'll tell you when I want to remove them and I'll define "unused'.

These are from XP, I can't afford more computers or operating systems despite the pressure to "upgrade".

[randome]

115. I think we have all suffered from Bill Gates' Asperger's Syndrome.

It's a strange society when one person can become so powerful, his/her way of thinking begins to permeate everything.

The Internet itself has not lived up to its potential. We are all too obsessed with pretty colors and flashing lights instead of obtaining and disseminating raw data. I blame Microsoft for much of this because of its insatiable need to market and dictate how we should think.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[tridim]

148. Bill Gates doesn't work for Microsoft. nt

[randome]

192. He put these non-intuitive abuses in motion, though.

The idea that you don't need intuitive names for things, just pull something out of your ass and plop it on the screen. The idea that you can go further and faster by changing the positions of menus and icons and call it a new 'version'.

That is Bill Gates' legacy.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

[tridim]

199. Well, the positions of menus and icons have remained consistent since windows 95.

So I don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Windows 8 presents a desktop with icons that you click to launch applications. Just like your Mac and just like every version of Windows since day one.

I never knew point and click was so confusing. Oh well.

[ucrdem]

217. Ditching the start button was perverse.

They broke the desktop on purpose and there's no getting around that it wasn't an accident. They forked us to get us to buy more hardware. Yes, it's a very attractive car, once you get past the fact that it comes without a steering wheel, and you have to find your own. Or hope your PC manufacturer supplies a workaround. And the search function sucks worse than ever. The only half-way decent search Windows ever had was on 7 and now they forked that too.



So basically the OP is right.

[randome]

237. 'Consistent'? Really?

With Windows 7, folders are now listed after non-folders. At some point they changed how Search in Windows Explorer works. They made it much more difficult to organize your menus the way you want because...well, because!

And now Windows 8 is an even more cluttered mess. It's your desktop but you cannot organize it the way you want. Guess what? I'm a 'clean desktop' type of worker. I have awesome organizational skills. Has Microsoft ever taken that into consideration? No.

"Stop complaining and work the way we want!" seems to be their motto.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

[Egalitarian Thug]

158. An insatiable need to extract money from people for things it doesn't own.

Let's be honest, If Gates were born some punk from Ohio, he'd have been in jail years before anyone ever heard of M$. And getting contracts with IBM and the federal government? No chance in hell.

Without his family connections and a half billion trust backing him up, the world would have been spared the disasters that M$ has imposed on the world.

[pansypoo53219]

68. ok. i am an apple. but from the commercials w/ the 'tiles'

i just realised they use vera bradley colors and THEY SUCK as well.

[DinahMoeHum]

69. OK, so WTF is the best replacement for Windows XP??

Because I'm also faced with the obligation/dilemma to update by April 2014; and I cannot seem to find/buy any laptop that still has Windows 7.

Is there a way to buy a laptop with Windows 8 and replace it with Windows 7?

Are the Dell Inspirons worth a damn?

This inquiring mind wishes to know. Thanks.

[Soundman]

82. Here is a link,

Don't know if you have a micro center near you or not. I love the place.

http://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.aspx?Ntk=all&N=4294967288+4294960442&cat=0003%3c%3e%3c%3eWindows-7-Professional-64-bit-%3a-Laptops%2fNotebooks-%3a-Laptops%2c-Netbooks-%3a-Computers-%3a-Micro-Center

[hobbit709]

83. Why? It won't magically stop working on the support cutoff date.

[jeff47]

124. Depends on how technically savvy you are.

If you are not technically savvy, get a Mac.

If you are, get a Mac or put Linux on that laptop.

[RedCappedBandit]

71. Yep.

I made the mistake of buying a laptop with Windows 8.

From this point forward, I'm only ever using Linux.

[Laelth]

74. I am keeping XP as long as I can. n/t

-Laelth

[leeroysphitz]

79. I hate it more. n/t

[Tommy_Carcetti]

84. I've intentionally kept my older laptop as long as I can possibly do so out of fear of Windows 8.

I believe I have Windows 7 with the start button and all.

My wife recently bought a new laptop with Windows 8 installed. She hates it. Despises it. Barely even uses it because of Windows 8.

And I agree. It's horrible. Just a jumbled mess with no start button.

But I'm a bit of a traditionalist and I don't care to go to a tablet. I like a computer that actually resembles what I believe a computer to look like.

So my old girl is 4, going onto 5. And I'm going to use her until the day she croaks.

[tridim]

96. LOL

Your wife doesn't know how to use Windows 8, so she hates it.

Hint: It's dirt simple.

I spend about 2 seconds in metro upon bootup (which takes 5 seconds BTW), then work on the desktop the rest of the day. It's exactly like Win7.

[tridim]

90. Your opinion doesn't mesh with reality.

Do you even know that the Windows 8 desktop is the same as the Windows 7 desktop, only much faster and more powerful?

The ignorance in your post indicates that you have likely never used Windows 8.

[Jim Lane]

116. I am using Win 8 (for lack of an alternative) as I type this and I agree with the OP.

Any major change will have supporters and detractors. You shouldn't assume that everyone whose opinion differs from yours must never have tried Win 8.

From what I've read, I think you're right about Win 8's technical benefits (speed and power). The issue noted over and over again in this thread, and elsewhere, is the user interface. Maybe it's better on touch-screen devices, but for me, working on a standard non-touch laptop, it's a disaster.

[tridim]

139. I've debated many detractors who have eventually admitted they never used it...

Or never left Metro and used the desktop.

It's almost always simple ignorance and/or anti-MS/Pro-Apple BS.

[bluestate10]

172. I use Windows 8. It fucking sucks. I live in constant fear of losing something. May be

I don't actually loose it, but with the jumpy nature of WIN 8, I have to focus on being patient and taking time to find what seemingly vanishes. WIN 8 is NOT a good user interface.

[tridim]

177. It's JUMPY? how so?

What jumps? What seemingly vanishes? Files? Icons? What?

I assume you have "lost something" before, since you brought it up. What did you lose? Are you saying that a file just vanished from the hard drive for no reason? That's fascinating! It's very strange that you're paranoid about a problem that doesn't exist, and then blame your paranoia on an OS that doesn't delete things for no reason. Ever.

[Jim Lane]

196. I've also experienced "jumpy"

I don't know if this is what bluestate10 meant, but here's my experience (and don't tell me this is because I haven't used Win 8 because this happened about five minutes ago on this Win 8 machine and that was far from the first time): I'm working comfortably in a particular window and suddenly, for no reason I've been able to figure out, the screen switches to a different window. What makes it worse is that I sometimes have trouble getting back to where I was, because Alt+Tab takes me to yet another window. What makes it still worse is that, often, the window that suddenly pops up is one with no X in the corner and so there's no immediately obvious way to close it. I've had the experience, mentioned elsewhere in this thread, of having to open Task Manager just to close a recalcitrant program.

From an article on Yahoo! News, I find the following passage that seems to capture the reactions of many DUers, with a little venture into verse:

The trouble with the new Start button, however, is that left-clicking on it simply returns these users to the Metro screen that they hate with all their hearts. And for a lot of users, dislike of the Metro screen has reached Dr. Seuss-like proportions: They do not like it in their homes, they do not like it on their phones; they will not click upon its tiles, they won’t use it to access files; they wish that it would go and die, they do not like Metro UI.

Now, there are certainly some important rejoinders to this: You can right-click on the new Start button to get a more traditional menu that will give you access to some, although not all, of the features of the old Start menu. You can also install a third-party applications such as Classic Shell and StartMenu8 to bring back the classic Start menu. And you can take a bunch of different steps to change your settings and make sure that you never have to see another “Live Tile” ever again.

But it seems like a lot of longtime PC users simply want the UI of Windows 7 with the speed and stability improvements of Windows 8 and they don’t want to have to do any tinkering to get it. If Microsoft really wants these people to remain loyal users in the coming years, it may have to suck it up and bring back the full traditional Start menu. (from "I’m not sure Microsoft appreciates how much some users hate Windows 8", which, you'll be glad to see, also acknowledges some of the system's good points)

I hope the author's prediction comes true. If Microsoft gets off its high horse about having the same interface for touch-screen and non-touch-screen devices, and provides the more traditional interface as an option, it will mitigate the discontent among the users like me who don't own anything with a touch screen.

[jeff47]

125. Ignorance is believing a tablet OS is a good idea for a desktop system. (nt)

[tridim]

140. It's a tablet interface overlay, not a "tablet OS".

99% of work is done on the desktop, which is exactly like Windows 7.

[jeff47]

153. Exactly like....except for having nothing in the same place

and the whole 'switching back to metro' when you run certain programs....oh wait, "apps".

Win 8 is trying to make desktop windows look like Windows Mobile. Someone at Microsoft thought making all their OS's look similar would help break Apple's and Android's lead in mobile. Otherwise, why did they bother re-writing the XBox 360 operating system to look the same?

It's an incredibly stupid idea, because each of these devices are used differently, so they need a different UI paradigm.

[tridim]

157. Everything is in the same place on the desktop..

And everything is faster and improved. Copy lots of files or open task manager and you'll see what I mean.

You're describing Metro, not the desktop. Click the "Desktop" tile on Metro, that is where work is done. It is exactly the same look/feel as Windows 7.

I never use Metro on my desktop PC. It is irrelevant.

[jeff47]

159. Ok, lemme click on the shutdown button on the start menu.

Oh wait...that's not in the same place. Nor is a whole lot of other things.

You're describing Metro, not the desktop. Click the "Desktop" tile on Metro, that is where work is done. It is exactly the same look/feel as Windows 7.

You are attempting to put a pedantic line between the two. Metro is part of the operating system. The fact that many Microsoft applications switch the interface back to metro when launched should have told you this. The fact that the OS boots to Metro unless you add third party software should also have told you this.

I never use Metro on my desktop PC. It is irrelevant.

Actually, it is. Because you have to click a button to get to the desktop. Assuming you're using the out-of-the-box OS.

[tridim]

162. I made a shutdown tile. You can too!

Metro is the new start menu paradigm, the desktop is the desktop. 8.1 allows you to boot directly to the desktop.

I use metro for two things, clicking the desktop tile at the beginning of the day and shutting down at the end of the day.

[jeff47]

193. So it works exactly the same as long as I change it to work the same.

I'm wondering just how long it will take for you to figure out this might be a problem.

[byronius]

154. I've spent the last week wrangling with your baby. I wouldn't attack any product without trying it.

I've never been anti-Microsoft; this product has bent me that way.

The solutions to all the problems I've faced with the operating system were not provided by Microsoft, but by Google searches and third-party vendors. The system is slow, unstable, and seems dedicated to NOT providing any clues to solutions. And no, the desktop is not exactly like Windows 7, which I use every day without a problem.

Imagine yourself trying to configure a new computer out of the box with 8 pre-installed. Imagine that you have no time to read programmer blogs or magazines to know the secrets of tweaking the UI. For chrissakes, the word 'Metro' appears NOWHERE in the bootup, tour, or help.

Windows 8 has added an additional step to every simple task. For a business user, that is a fucking crime. Call me ignorant, but your bristly defense of this useless OS indicates that you might just have some skin in the game, so to speak.

Are we to return to the days when one had to take a six month course to learn all the shortcut keys for WordPerfect? 'Cause that's what this smells like. Purposeful obfuscation for corporate needs.

I'm stripping this OS off the machine and installing a copy of 7. Smack-talk away, buddy, but I suspect you don't know what it's like in the small-business trenches. You apparently have loads of time on your hands to figure this shit out.

I don't. I have to work for a living.

[bluestate10]

173. I spent around a year working with WIN 8 also. The UI sucks, period.

If I am away from it for a few days, I am back to re-learning "feel" stuff. The UI is inefficient for me, I am a computer USER, not a fucking computer geek, I want to do other stuff when I am on a computer other than figure out the UI.

[Gore1FL]

188. I'm a Windows Systems Administrator.

Windows 8 sucks. Under the hood it is faster, yes. It has to be to make up for the shitty new interface. The Windows 8 desktop isn't quite the same, functionally. It doesn't have a compact start menu. Even the "all-apps" replacement doesn't allow for folder depth. Pinning things to the start screen takes multiple clicks, where one right click used to do the job.

Furthermore, despite having the word "Enterprise" printed on the CD, it is not enterprise friendly. (It took an update to make the .Default user's lockscreen something other than "cartoon Seattle.&quot I have no way to usefully control many of the unwanted features without hacking the crap out of it. (But why would enterprise admins worry about best practice, right?)

The metro apps are not configurable. Start Screen "Mail", doesn't equate to the outlook desktop app. Start Screen "People" doesn't equate to the desktop outlook contact list. Start Screen "Calendar" is different from the Desktop Outlook calendar. It has 2 unrelated Internet Explorers...

Let's talk shared environments. It takes 10 minutes to logon the first time. I have labs that refresh constantly. That means adding an extra ten minutes wasted--or I can try roaming profiles. Know where I can get a few terabytes of network storage for $5?

I can go on.

Your reality does not conform to mine. My computer experience goes back to Feb 1981.

[lumberjack_jeff]

191. I have been a computer user since 1982. That's 32 years.

Linux, Unix, DOS, Novell Netware, every Windows since 3.1.

I have never used any interface which was so instantly frustrating due to its utter incomprehensibility.

Want to open a file? Nothing on the Metro screen hints how one would do this. Okay, so I found that pdf file and have now opened it... now how do I print it? Do I have a printer installed? How do I close the file?

Move the mouse to the upper right corner? Why? I am presented with nothing to suggest that this is a rational thing to do. Moving the cursor off the screen enables you to do things? Maybe if I could just get to a command prompt...

The metro interface is complete gibberish. I take your word for the layers underneath are improved, but you have to scrape the shit off first before you'd know.

Luckily, apps like classic shell do a pretty good job unfucking it, but there appears to be no rational reason for it to be so fucked in the first place.

[jollyreaper2112]

91. Pirate 7

The problem is that this would only work for so long.

Back in the days of xp, I could fix laptops that lacked the custom reinstall disks. Run generic Xp, then use utilities to discover chipsets and load drivers for sound and video and stuff. Only problem now, drivers are different so your new laptop's components might not have compatible 7 drivers.

Remember how you used to get real versions of the OS with your computer, not just those stupid install disks that are only good for that one model?

Pc and laptop manufactures are crying about losing market share but it's their own damn fault for putting their interests ahead of the customer.

[Jamastiene]

93. Then, the feeling is mutual now.

I'm sticking with Windows 7 until they MAKE me quit using it. Fuck Windows 8, fucking weirdo shit that it is.

[tridim]

94. Windows 8 desktop is exactly the same as Windows 7.

Only faster and more powerful.

You're missing out , due to ignorance.

[Jamastiene]

95. All I saw on my mothers desktop was what looked like

a freaking tablet screen. It's not ignorance. I don't like the way the thing looks and will not be using it any sooner than I have to. Windows 7 has been the most stable so far of any of them and I have more control of what info it sends out about me and my computer use. I'm sticking with it.

[tridim]

97. That's metro, not the desktop.

Ignorance.

This whole thread is about admitted ignorance. It's pretty scary actually.

[TreasonousBastard]

99. Old fartitude, actually...

and it's bad enough with us actual old farts but at least we're dying off-- it's really sad to see it in the young.

[Jamastiene]

100. Well, then, I don't like Windows 8 Metro.

Still don't want to go through all the trouble of changing to another OS when I just found one that is doing its job.

[jeff47]

126. If Win8 wasn't pushing metro so hard, you might actually have a point. (nt)

[tridim]

138. It's sooooo hard to click on the desktop tile.

The .5 seconds it takes to click just ruins my whole day.

[jeff47]

155. And then when it goes back to metro when you run many common programs?

If it stayed in desktop mode, you'd be correct. It doesn't.

[tridim]

160. My systems stay in desktop mode all day until I shut down.

The only app I know of that forces the app-interface is the media player thing, but I just view videos with WMP from the desktop like I have since Windows 95.

Hint: Try tapping the Windows Logo Key. Magic!

[jeff47]

161. So your claim is users don't have to do anything.....except do something.

Yes, I understand. You love Microsoft. That's nice. Doesn't mean they can't make mistakes. In fact, you harping over and over again how you have thwarted the UI design of Win8 kinda indicates that MS made a mistake.

[tridim]

163. Yes, you have to "do something" to use a computer to do things.

[jeff47]

165. And now you move on to misquoting, also an excellent sign of having a good point

:pat on head:

If you have to take steps to work around the user interface, that indicates the people designing the UI have made a mistake. And all you've been doing in this sub-thread is talk about the steps you take to work around the user interface.

[tridim]

174. Clicking on the desktop tile is not "taking steps to work around the user interface"...

It's using the user interface as intended. Tapping the windows key to toggle the start menu (or metro) is a keyboard shortcut that has been in effect since at least 1995.

There is really no point debating with people who don't understand the absolute basics of Windows.

[jeff47]

195. You have to click on it to get the user interface you actually use. That is working around the UI.

There is really no point debating with people who don't understand the absolute basics of Windows.

Actually, the problem here is you are working backwards. You are talking about how to make the UI work the way you want it to. Such as how you get to the desktop so that you do not have to use Metro.

You should not have to work around the UI. The UI should work around you.

[tridim]

200. THAT IS THE FUCKING UI.

That is how every UI in the world works.

I'm done, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

[jeff47]

205. Really? Where is the "desktop" tile that I have to click on MacOS or Linux?

Every UI in the world works that way, so where is it? I guess we might find a window manager on Linux that has one if we look hard enough.

Oh wait....you mean they just take me to the desktop when they start?

I'm done, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Nah, I just don't have the "I get paid by Microsoft" blinders on.

[U4ikLefty]

227. You won

[TreasonousBastard]

98. Ohferchrissakes-- such whining...

Been using Win 8 for months now and have no problems. Just a few adjustments and it's working as well as anything else. Much better for networking and a few other things.

Since PC sales are declining in favor of tablets and phones for the masses, it was designed as a seamless experience between the three. The guy in charge was fired for a number of reasons, not the least of which was he ignored Android phones and tablets that got a huge head start.

Tried linux and just don't believe those true believers who claim maintenance and the learning curve aren't issues. The various versions are spending so much time trying to be Macs or Win machines that the overhead is huge and there really isn't any advantage.

Tried Macs and they are far too restricting. And, as with linux, the idea of getting another, flaky, program to let me run the two or three Windows programs I need is ludicrous. But that's me. Your mileage may vary-- it's just an OS and what you do with it is what's important.

The complaints about Win8 are pure old fartitude. It's a change and too many people just can't handle change. Being a certified old fart myself, I fully understand the condition, but it just won't get you very far living in the old days.

[LisaL]

102. Not everybody uses a computer for just networking.

[TreasonousBastard]

108. But it's better at a lot of other things, too...

if anyone would care to check.

[NuclearDem]

101. That and 8 did away with the one last good thing MS had going for it

The Start button.

[randome]

103. Yet 'Start' was an assinine name to give to that button.

Total fail in organizational logic. Something intuitive like 'Apps' or 'Menu' would have made much more sense.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

[Dash87]

106. Windows 8 is all around horrible. It's even bad for a tablet.

On a PC, it's pure frustration. The GUI has zero fluency - it's just so mind-bogglingly inefficient and not user friendly. It sucks for anything other than computer newbie stuff like using the Internet.

Seriously, who the heck hides the power off button under a settings screen? Derp x1000. Why is everything so damn (needlessly) confusing?

Who throws a bunch of programs together like iPhone apps and says, "pick one!" If you actually use the OS for more than a month, the apps screen becomes a bungled mess. I haven't bothered trying to clean it up (if you even can) b/c the screen is pointless anyhow. Why would I want to go from the desktop to the apps screen only to go back to the desktop?

It's not because I'm new to it like I first thought - I know the OS now. That just makes me hate it more. I actually liked it better with my first impressions before I realized how bad it is. I've been sucking it up for the months I've had Windows 8, but it makes me want Windows 7 back.

[bobduca]

118. that cartoon one is so combative and obvious

everything is wrong!!! you are ignorant! rawr! /plonk

[tridim]

142. What do you suspect me of?

[tridim]

169. DUZY right there. Thanks Moxy.

[jwirr]

111. I agree. It is not easy to negotiate, has fewer options, stupid games, and for a personal computer

it does more harm than good. My daughter says there is a way to go back to what I had but hasn't had the time to help me. The corporate world is really out of touch with the people and soon they will begin to feel the pinch. We will stop buying their product and go somewhere that it actually works.

[Brainstormy]

112. It SO sucks!

Finally, with Windows 7, most of the bugs were out and MS had produced a really functional OS. But they had to sell us something else and it had to be really different because . . . why? Basically Windows 8 asks you to unlearn everything that Microsoft operating systems have taught us for decades. EVERYTHING is harder and more time consuming. Not a single day goes by that it doesn't wreak havoc with my blood pressure.

[tridim]

143. Not even remotely true.

How exactly is the Win8 desktop "harder and more time consuming" than Win7's desktop?

[Mr Dixon]

117. chrome book

I brought a GOOGLE CHROME book and i could not be happier to have dumped MS.

[rudolph the red]

119. I have win 8.1 on my laptop and my desktop,

they both work great and I have never had a single problem with the OS.

[Threedifferentones]

120. Apple products meet those 5 criteria as well.

The vision of Steve Jobs from the start was that people would run software that was designed exclusively by or for Apple, and that said software would run on Apple machines that will not run software from other developers. Similarly, Apple software has never been intended to work properly on non-Apple hardware.

In other words, Apple has always wanted to be the exclusive computer company in the lives of its consumers. This is brilliant because, once you buy one Apple product, you have a big incentive to buy only Apple in the future: if you do not, your new computers will not be compatible with your old. Now that people have computers in their pockets all the time and often in every room of their house, this is a huge deal.

Although Bill Gates foiled his initial implementation of this plan by by ripping off his OS and releasing Windows for all the existing makers of PCs, in the long run it has turned out to be a brilliant business model.

It is quite understandable that Microsoft is once again copying Apple's plan.

[L0oniX]

123. Buy another HD and install Ubuntu LTS on it. Obama team chooses Ubuntu.

http://insights.ubuntu.com/resources/interviews/ubuntu-powered-obama-for-america-success/

The Obama for America team chose an open, cloud-based IT model. This kept costs down and consistent, even at the most demanding times. The team chose Ubuntu as the operating system, generally running instances on Amazon Web Services. Ubuntu provided a cost effective OS, that is stable and reliable and that scales easily as required. The technology behind the Obama for America campaign will likely change the face of government elections of the future, as well as how enterprises will run their infrastructures. We expect Ubuntu to continue to be at the heart of those initiatives.

[byronius]

156. That is an interesting and appreciated suggestion.

Thanks. I've heard of Ubuntu. I'll check it out.

[lightcameron]

130. Last time I used a Windoze machine was 4 years ago.

And I couldn't be happier about it.

[tridim]

145. Windoze... LOL... Never heard that one before from the macheads.

Unlike most on this thread, at least you admit that you've never used Windows 8 before offering your "expert" opinion on the matter.

[Soundman]

201. So please tell explain this,

If windows 8 is windows 7 only faster why did my wife's employer have to return her windows 8 laptop because it would not interface with their "windows 7" system/network and buy the same model running windows 7? FYI They still cannot get windoze 8 to work with the system almost a year later.

Anyway, I doubt I will ever buy another ms product and I have had everyone since dos 2.x. M.S. Made a fool out of me for the last time when I chose the easy transfer option (wtf was I thinking) from my XP machine and it took all of my 10k plus photographs that were pre drm and just chucked them all into a few folders that had no ryme nor reason to them.

[Logical]

230. LOL, new things are hard I understand. n-t

[BeyondGeography]

131. Google hates me

Youtube crashes my computer every hour or so since they mucked around with the comments page. Why do they suck so bad at certain things?

[idwiyo]

135. It sure doesn't hate me, and I like it. Desktop is same as Win7. Metro is cool for

favourite programs.

Am running it on Surface Pro and loving entire experience. Never mind handwriting recognition and stylus.

Had iPad3 for a year and hated it with passion, still do. Never again.

[rudolph the red]

215. Yep It seem to work really well

I don't get the negative posts.

[idwiyo]

232. Seems like typical "WHAAAAA, IT DOESN'T LOOK THE SAME!11!". Even Beta was running fine.

Didn't have a problem running most legacy software on it, except some crappy front ends for databases that were crashing on XP-pro, Server2K3 modified as Desktop, and Win7 Ultimate. Not that I expected any different from half-baked in-home developed pieces of shit that should have been re-written ages ago.

Did I mention that I am an early adapter/Guinea pig who always runs Beta as soon as available? Win 8.1 was no exception.

I am expecting next moaning marathon session as soon as Firefox switches to Australis. Oh boy...


PS. Am running heavily customised with add-ons Australis for about 3 weeks now. The only issue I had so far was one of add-ons (Tab Mix Plus) acting up. That's it.

[DonCoquixote]

141. MS did win 8

Because they saw Android (aka Linux in wrapper) was kicking the asses of both it and Apple. People who just wanted to do websurfing, email, and wordprocessing found out tablets could do those jobs as well or better than PCs. Now with 4 core tabs coming down the line, the days when tablets are poor cousins to pcs are dying.

Apple of course, will not change, even though any tablet can outperform the overpriced Ipad, why, because Apple has a cult of people who think "I can afford Apple, therefore I am hip, and can hide the fact I am too lazy and stupid to learn either windows or gasp Linux!"

[Egalitarian Thug]

146. Windoze 8 has only one goal. To get as many suckers as possible to finally

accept Microshit corporation taking money directly out of your bank account every month, forever.

They've spent almost 20 years conditioning you to accept really, really bad software as normal. They've convinced you that paying a software developer to do their beta testing is normal. They've convinced you that an OS should be sloppy, a resource hog, and unsecured by default, but mostly they've convinced you that an information system normally an ongoing liability, rather than an asset.

[Aerows]

147. The feeling is mutual n/t

[War Horse]

166. I don't get the hate

I have Win 8.1 w/Classic Shell on my laptop (Win 7 on my desktop, on which I make my living, I'd rather avoid having Win 8 on that one, I must admit...), and with a few tweaks (most mentioned up thread) I got it to behave just the way I wanted it to. I very rarely use that Metro stuff.

Just why MS decided to launch a touch screen OS on the laptop/desktop scene I will never know, I confess. The very definition of a failed marketing, I suppose.

I never got the hate for Vista either, though. Kinda slow, but perfectly workable. And very stable, in my experience.

Maybe I just don't get it

I would also agree that if you just use your pc for recreational use, there are very few reasons I can think of not to go w/Linux. Perhaps the occasional driver issue, but that's all.

[Mosaic]

220. You're just too nice to say it

How STUPID is it to hate an OS because it has a Spanish sounding name?

[bluestate10]

170. Windows 8 brought the historical problems of Microsoft out is full bloom.

I don't think that Microsoft tries to force users to a new system as much as the company doesn't give a shit about whether it provides the capability for new software to run old applications that were built for earlier versions. Second, development teams at Microsoft don't seem to have any cross-talk. The hard lessons that were learned by XT and WIN 7 were ignored by WIN 8 developers, and Microsoft is paying the price for that. One example that burns my ass is pulling in graphic content from another device. The XT and WIN 7 software, after some work, seamlessly transferred graphic content and allowed a user to clearly select which folder to put them in, including allowing a user to build a folder on the spot. Maybe WIN 8 offers the same or better capabilities, but that isn't obvious to this user.

[ohheckyeah]

175. I haven't tried Windows 8

nor do I plan to. I have three computers....2 with Windows 7 and one with XP. I'll get Windows 7 to replace XP if and when I need to. That's just my backup desktop.

The laptop had Vista on it and I replaced Vista with Windows 7. I really like 7 and didn't notice that big of a difference from XP. XP is a great OS and I've had no problems with 7 and find it as good as XP.

[darkangel218]

176. Windows 8 cant hate me, we have never met :)

And never will.

[KauaiK]

180. Here Here!!!

I had windows vista and now Windows 8 which is beyond horrible - and I loathe Microsoft more and more each day. There is HOPE; download Stardock. It makes Windows 8 run like Windows 7.

[KauaiK]

180. Here Here!!!

I had windows vista and now Windows 8 which is beyond horrible - and I loathe Microsoft more and more each day. There is HOPE; download Stardock. It makes Windows 8 run like Windows 7.

[IDemo]

216. MS had to pull teeth to get corporate customers to migrate to W7 from XP

After working on several dozen Win8 test machines, I think they are going to need open heart surgery to get it adopted by the enterprise.

[tritsofme]

218. I bought a Windows 8 laptop a few months ago, and it suits my needs fine.

Granted I don't ask much out of this machine, as it is only for personal use. I upgraded to 8.1, and it lets you take away some of the tablety functionality (like charms) that you needed third party apps to disable in the previous release.

I boot directly to the desktop and rarely venture into the modern UI. I use a third party Start Menu replacement app, because the Start button in 8.1 just dumps you to the modern UI, and this really brings back the Windows 7 experience.

When I do go to the modern UI it is mostly to use the weather or email apps, which I do find useful. I actually like the hot corners switching method for this.

I use this machine primarily as a desktop with it docked into a keyboard and monitor, and while I do find some aspects of the OS annoying, I don't think it is as bad as some people are making it out.

[byronius]

222. I felt shoved around. Controlled. And the learning curve to reach functionality was higher than

any OS I've ever used. It truly felt like Microsoft was trying to force new memes down my throat -- not help me migrate.

I bought the machine pre-loaded, and had a single day to bring it up to speed. It drove me insane instead.

I've given up. I'm stripping this weekend and returning to 7.

For businesses that use it as a desktop for databases and business software, it's the wrong choice. But I could see someone getting used to it on a personal machine.

The final straw was updating to 8.1, which made a scan-to-pdf routine I had just gotten to work again refuse to even open. Maddening.

[sweetloukillbot]

223. That's been my experience.

I have 8.1 and it is a big improvement on 8. Boots straight to desktop - the only time I need to use the metro UI is if I'm playing freecell or using my comic reader - everything else I run through the desktop and it feels like 7. It's stable, I had some blue screen issues, but that was a hard drive failure and not the OS (I'd been dealing with it for about a year and a half before it finally went) - once I replaced the drive I've had no problems. There were some issues with IE 11 not playing well with Google websites, but that's been the case for years - they both like breaking each others' products - and I use Chrome anyhow.

The way I used the taskbar, I rarely needed to use the start menu anyhow, so I didn't miss it. A lot of tools I do use are more easy to access - Command Prompt, Control Panel, task manager, etc.

I will say that the app store is sorely lacking. It only added a Facebook app with 8.1, and that doesn't work as smoothly as I'd like. I've also tried using the metro UI for daily functions and I still don't care for that either. But booting into the desktop and staying there, the experience is just like Windows 7.

[CRF450]

225. I recently bought a new MacBook Pro Retina :)

I've been a Windows user for 15+ years mostly with gaming computers, then a few HP laptops with Windows Vista and the last had Win7. As good as Win7 was, I've had enough of the constant onslaught of malware and virus's and the shoddy build quality of sub $1000 laptops. So I went all out for a new 13" MacBook Pro with the Retina display. The experience with it so far for the last 3 weeks has been stellar! It didn't take long to get the hang of using OSX, and one thing that really amazes me other than the battery life is the fact that the bottom STAYS COOL! My last HP laptop would get ridiculously hot just from internet browsing with several tabs open.

Yeah $1500 is a lot to spend for a laptop especially with non gaming specs, but I feel that it's worth it for a quality product of this calibre. I did have my eye on a MB Air for a while for the cheaper price, but with the current ones at 256gb of space, there's only a $200 difference between the MB Air and the Pro Retina model with vastly different specs.

[Neoma]

234. I like my new touch screen computer...

I mean, windows 8 gives you more steps to take, but this laptop is goddamn awesome. But mine are pitiful reasons.

1. Has enough gigs to play all of Sims3 without crashing the laptop.
2. I can play Netflix on my laptop now!
3. I got the new version of Word, and it's helped me with school work because the school also has the new version of word.
4. Photoshop works just the same.
5. If I get annoyed about not finding something (like the calculator), I just use the search bar. People don't seem to do that.


*sighs* I've adapted well. I put the apps I don't want to look at all the way to the right of the screen.

[idwiyo]

239. I love, love, love handwriting recognition on Surface Pro! So many things are so much easier to do

now that I have stylus and can simply write!.

BTW, I was using one of the first MS Slate laptops when I was in Uni. It was a life saver, 'cause we had to submit all of our homework handwritten, no typing was allowed. I would have killed myself without Windows Journal and Stylus.

[IDemo]

236. User interface issues aside,

There is simply no compelling reason for the vast majority of casual users to fork out the extra bucks to change from Windows 7 to 8. Most who aren't diehard gamers don't really care about performance figures or claiming to have the latest OS, software or hardware. Any recent Intel box with Windows 7 will function quite nicely for browsing and Office usage.