Interesting moment at the office pot luck party today (1st Amendment)

[underpants]

I work for a department of a state government . We had our Holiday party today with a pot luck and gift exchange.


As we finally got things going the question was asked, "Should we have a prayer?"

There are several very devout Christians working there and many of them (they have pointed this out to me as the new guy) are conservative.

.....a bit of a pause and then from a member of the upper management....

"This is a State facility"

"So can we have a prayer?" was asked again by someone who doesn't strike me as being all that religious but definitely old south.

pause

"This is a facility of the State so that might not be appropriate" said the same person who pointed this out the first time.

It was agreed that we would have a "moment of silence, so people can do what they want".

The moment lasted maybe 8 seconds and we got to eatin'.



I love my new job.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. That's great!

It was handled just right.

Kudos to the person who made the suggestion.

Merry Christmas, my dear underpants!

[underpants]

3. Merry Christmas my dear CaliforniaPeggy

[RoccoR5955]

19. And Happy Festivus for the rest of us!

Now for feats of strength!

[underpants]

26. Wait

I thought the airing of grievances came first. I was really looking forward to the airing of grievances.

[lapfog_1]

2. Being the type of person I am...

I might have said "Sure, let me go first...."

"Oh Great Satan, the unmerciful, the bringer of darkness and troubles, please accept this sacrifice of animal flesh so that all who partake may feel your blessings on ourselves for this day and all the days to come."

Or something like that... I'm not a Satanist, but you get the idea.

[underpants]

4. Funny - I thought....

Well I AM a member of the Jewish Community Center so I could maybe handle the Jewish part but the Hindu and Muslim part is not in my wheelhouse.....

I stayed silent. Too long of a joke.

[Tab]

12. Yeah, it's clear you're going to hell

[passiveporcupine]

22. And I would have had a fit of the giggles

[ladyVet]

29. That's the one I would have said! Just to piss people off. LOL

I was asked once to lead a prayer during a holiday meal at work. I was a practicing pagan at the time, and could have said the one I did at home, but I just grinned at everybody and said, sure, but you won't like it.

After a minute of stunned silence, somebody else did a quick prayer -- I don't remember what was said, as I was eating. Probably something about saving my soul, poor lost sinner that I was. Pffft.

I used to be respectful, and sat quietly while people blessed their food, but after a while I just started eating while they got on with showing off their piety. Why waste good eating time listening to something I don't believe in?

[FLyellowdog]

5. I still don't understand

the necessity to have a verbal group prayer. Those who are devout could give their own silent prayer and those who aren't would not have to endure the behavior. At my house for family dinners, I encourage a declaration of gratefulness for what we have....like food, family, and friends.

[Curmudgeoness]

6. But don't you see

that if the world does not see you praying, how do you convince them that you are devout???

I don't understand it either.

[Chan790]

30. They have received their rewards in full. No Heaven awaits them for impiety and putting on a show.

When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. Matthew 6:5-6

Tis' better to claim publicly to be an atheist and deny Christ and worship in secret (It makes you no worse than Saint Peter) than to worship publicly and not live the word.

[awoke_in_2003]

20. that is how it used to be

30 years ago. I loathe the resurgence of religion in this country

[zeemike]

7. I guess I would have said.

Well sure, but let's do it like Jesus said it should be done...close yourself in a closet and pray in secret...as he said in Mathew 6

[5] And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
[6] But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

[Cirque du So-What]

8. Exactly right

Everyone is free to pray whenever and wherever the fuck they want - as long as they do it privately - without dragging all & sundry into their conversations with their imaginary friend.

[avebury]

9. I work for a state agency

and there is no way that anyone in management would speak up that prayer is not appropriate in a state facility.

[cleanhippie]

18. That truly is sad.

The management in the OP did it just right.

Perhaps if this ever came up in your workplace, YOU would be te voice of reason? If management won't do it, who will?

[OffWithTheirHeads]

10. I have a similar problem.

I was recently elected President of our local (Tucson Arizona ) Democratic club. Their culture is to say the pledge of alleigence at the start of each meeting. I went to predomintaly black schools in junior high school and high school during the civil rights movement and the black kids got, and expressed the fact that "liberty and justice for all" was bullshit. Add to that the fact that I don't believe in "God" and I have a real problem with the pledge. I'm trying to be diplomatic as I am the new kid in town but it really bothers me. Any suggestions?

[Jokerman]

16. Oddly enough...

I'm the president of our local democratic club and I haven't recited the pledge since I was in high school, I usually stand quietly with my arms by my side when others do.

Our VP traditionally opens with a moment of silence and then asks one of the executive committee members to lead the group in the pledge.

A couple of years ago when I became treasurer I took the VP aside and asked that he not call on me to lead the pledge. He was fine with this request and has respected it.

I get a little self-conscious sometimes standing in front of the club because it's clear to anyone who looks that I'm not actively participating but in two years as treasurer and one as president, no one has said a word.

[Tab]

11. I think

the response should be, "those who wish to may go ahead" but not everyone should be obligated.

[cleanhippie]

17. Wasn't the "moment of silence" a more appropriate response?

If not, why?

[Tab]

28. Some religions require you to be vocal (give thanks to God/Allah/whoever)

so I wouldn't require it in silence, but I wouldn't require myself to be included. Does that sound reasonable?

[cleanhippie]

35. Wouldn't that subject everyone else to the prayer?

Wouldn't that require everyone else giving MORE time after the "moment of silence"?

Or would it be appropriate for the vocal prayer to be said during the "moment of silence", making it not a "moment if silence"?

To me, the MoS is plenty. Anything more tends to give preferential treatment to those that wan more than just a MoS.

[Tab]

39. Well, I don't personally care if people pray around me

Have a circle of prayer, chant, whatever; I respect their freedom to do what they want; I just don't want to be obligated to participate myself and have other beliefs forced upon me.

[cleanhippie]

41. I couldn't agree more.

I just don't want to be obligated to participate myself and have other beliefs forced upon me.

To me, the MoS is the only way to ensure that. Being forced to be silent and listen while another prays goes completely against that, wouldn't you agree?

[Tab]

42. Well, the MoS implies someone's doing something

And you're forced to take that time out of your life for whatever. So if you subscribe to that (and I don't have a major problem with it) then whether someone's vocal or not doesn't bother me personally, unless, as I said, I'm required to participate because "we should all say grace" (or whatever). If we're doing a minute (or moment) for personal religious reflection, then that moment is sacrificed anyway. I just don't want to be dragged into someone else's religious observation.

Of course, I'll be polite and respectful if I'm at some church or synagogue or mosque or whatever, because that's the main objective of that establishment, but in a work, community, or private setting I'd rather not pretend to participate.

[Moostache]

13. I lack a sense of appropriateness at times...

My response might have been along the lines of:

<Shouting and gesticulating wildly>
"Allahu Akbar!
Allahu Akbar!
Allahu Akbar!
Oh Allah, give me the strength to kill the infidels who deny your truth.
Peace be upon the prophet....anyone else?"
<return to a more placid demeanor>

[passiveporcupine]

23. OK, that did give me a fit of the giggles

[OutNow]

33. I'll try that the next time I'm in a similiar situation

But I don't think I'll get by the second exhortation without laughing like a maniac. LOL

[pipi_k]

37. Some more mischief I just thought of...

Get yourself a big rubber snake, and the next time you're called upon to lead a prayer, pull out the snake and starting doing this...

[Aerows]

40. Holy shit

Those are the only two words I can say after watching that.

[tblue37]

43. I feel sorry for the snakes. Living creatures should not be

manhandled and slammed around the way they are doing to those poor snakes.

[Liberal_in_LA]

14. lol

[cleanhippie]

15. THAT, is frikkin awesome!

Everyone got what they wanted and the party went on. Fabulous.

Kudos to whomever it was that pointed out the secular government status of the venue and for holding the line.

And thank you for sharing your story.

[AAO]

21. Sounds like a good compromise.

I can be silent for a few seconds as long as I don't have to hear what they're thinking.

[RebelOne]

24. I worked for a very large publishing company

for 13 years, and we had many potluck and catered luncheons. No one ever suggest prayer before we ate. Everyone was too concerned about eating. One woman was a very devout Catholic and always crossed herself and said a silent prayer. But no one paid much attention.

[loli phabay]

25. just back from a xmas party ran by a government entity, honestly had no problem with the prayer

Said before eating, i just sat and looked at the shrimp and steak and then got on with it.

[riqster]

27. How about "Two priests and a rabbi wall into a bar..."

Hey, it's got religion...

[Vashta Nerada]

31. You have a good member of upper management.

I wish I had supervisors like that.

I don't understand why there needs to be a group prayer before the start of an office christmas party.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

32. They are primitive and superstitious

I can't stand their pathetic need to pray all the time. Why can't they grow a back bone and try living without the need to believe they will be looked after by an imaginary father figure, if they say the right combination of words. I wouldn't mind at all, if they kept it to themselves, but they don't.

I had two major surgeries this year and had to put up with their idiotic praying over the hospitals PA system. How insane and annoying. I chased a silly nun and later a Chaplin, out of my room. I'm a strong person, with my own mind and their silly beliefs is the last thing I need when I'm recovering.

[StrictlyRockers]

34. "Oh great Flying Spaghetti Monster, we offer this rasta pastafarian sacrifice to you in your name.."

Next?

[underpants]

38. Yes!

Something like that passed through my mind

[Xithras]

36. I prefer my old bosses response to it.

I was working at a state college a few years ago when someone asked an almost identical question during our holiday party. My boss responded, "We have people of all faiths in this room, so it wouldn't be appropriate to offer just one. If everyone agrees, we can either all offer a prayer for each faith, or I can let you use my office (which was right next to the room we were in) as a private prayer space."

The Christians seemed to like the first idea, until they realized that there was a Muslim, three Hindus, and a practicing Wiccan in the room. After that, the "private prayer space" became much more appealing

[Heidi]

44. Anyone in the group who wanted to pray could have done so

without drawing attention to it or imposing his/her belief system on colleagues. I personally feel that a moment of silence is an imposition, but the member of upper management probably was trying to handle the situation diplomatically.

"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."
Matthew 6:6