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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsColorado 6-year-old suspended for kissing a girl
A 6-year-old boy has been suspended from a Colorado school for kissing a girl on the cheek.
School officials in Canon City are accusing the boy of sexual harassment and they want it on his school record.
The boy's mother tells KRDO-TV (http://tinyurl.com/lyhxh7l ) her son was suspended once before for kissing the girl and had disciplinary problems, but the girl did not object to being kissed.
http://www.sfgate.com/news/us/article/Colorado-6-year-old-suspended-for-kissing-a-girl-5050930.php
A six year old boy is suspended from school in Canon City for kissing a classmate on the cheek
His mother says it's a crush and the two children like each other. But the school is calling it something else; sexual harassment.
First grader, Hunter Yelton, told us he loves science and phys-ed. Also...that he has a crush on a girl at school, who likes him back.
It may sound innocent enough...but at six years old Hunter now has 'sexual harassment' on his school record.
"It was during class yeah. We were doing reading group and I leaned over and kissed her on the hand. That's what happened," said Hunter Yelton.
Six year old Hunter was at home on Monday instead of at school.
"They sent me to the office, fair and square. I did something wrong and I feel sorry," he said.
http://www.krdo.com/news/six-year-old-suspended-for-sexual-harassment/-/417220/23403144/-/ndefbbz/-/index.html
Watch the video at the link to put this in context and How Every Part of American Life Became a Police Matter
onehandle
(51,122 posts)She became my first girlfriend.
And this was in Catholic school.
I never went through the 'girls are icky' stage.
MineralMan
(146,321 posts)When I was 6 years old, and in the first grade, a girl chased me around the playground, caught me, and kissed me. I don't remember feeling sexually harassed, though. I saw her at my 50th class reunion this summer, and asked her if she remembered that incident. She did, and we had a good laugh and a hug to celebrate the occasion.
If the girl in this situation didn't mind the kiss, it's not sexual harassment. It's just a cute thing that happened.
A pox on school officials who have no sense of reality, I think.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)Weapons-grade stupid in Canon City.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)seeing this young child being treated as an adult and criminal.
RC
(25,592 posts)Because of what the "adults" did, the boy is the harassment victim here. A simple word from the teacher should have been enough.
And people wonder why adult relationships are sometimes so dysfunctional. The boy did nothing wrong, and in fact was normal childhood behavior.
(Waiting for the usual suspects to defend the actions of the "adults" at the school.)
niyad
(113,494 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)Send'em to the California Youth Authorities
From San Francisco Urban Elementary
to Pelican Bay State Penitentiary
There they can work for the master race
and always wear a happy face
Close your eyes, it can't happen here
Big Brother in a squad car's comin' near
Come enjoy the surf and the sun
and keep California number one!
niyad
(113,494 posts)rational adult? sexual harassment by a 6 year old? reallllly?
lpbk2713
(42,763 posts)Fuggen idiots.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)The kid probably doesn't even know what sex is.
These are people that are trained to teach and deal with children?
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)I think whats shocking is it seems this nonsensical behavior and war on children appears to be institutional.
Starting with the front line teacher and going up the chain to the principal and on to the district level.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)and then they all clamor to back it up.
The weirdest thing to me, is that they are trained to teach, engage and guide children. They think that this does that?
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)That may or not be appropriate for older kids and imposed it everywhere. This comes from the "zero tolerance" mindset.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)What works for middle school and up does NOT work for little kids.
pscot
(21,024 posts)A woman principal shaming a 6 year old boy. she is one sick lady. What she's doing could really fuck this kid up for life. What nasty piece of work she must be.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)just sitting in a reading circle and out of nowhere the girl next to me just kisses me on the cheek. I'll never forget it, her name was Carrie. Noone got in trouble I was just told to wash my face by the teachers assistant.
This would have been about 1979.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)They may get their wish in spades.
God save us from teh stoopid.
jmowreader
(50,561 posts)This is a tale of two boys. One is Frank and the other is Sam. Both are in third grade.
Frank is this kid. He kissed a girl on the cheek and she didn't mind.
Sam is the kid three days from now who French-kissed a girl and stuck his hand down her pants, and she did mind.
The school did the appropriate action in both cases: told Frank not to do it at school anymore, and called Sam's parents to tell them their hellspawn is going either to alternative school or juvenile hall because feeling up third graders is beyond the pale and doing it to girls who don't want it is approaching rape.
Sam tells his parents Frank kissed a girl at school and they didn't do anything to him. Frank's parents call their lawyer, and now We The People have to spend fifty large on lawyer's fees explaining the difference between a peck on her cheek and a hand on her clitoris.
And that, my friends, is the driver behind all the zero-tolerance crap going on in our schools: a combination of "how dare you single out and ostracize my child? Attempted murder? It's not like he killed someone!" and an overabundance of lawyers who gotta make that McMansion payment somehow. It's total bullshit but what can we do?
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Zero tolerance comes out of the drug war mentality that hammering the small things prevents the large things, a theory not born out by reality.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)penetrate another 3rd grade boy. He was molesting the other boy for a bit before they found out about it.
They never bothered to investigate what was going on in the boy's home to have taught him such behavior.
Orrex
(63,219 posts)Shame! Shame!
1000words
(7,051 posts)Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)littlewolf
(3,813 posts)some one needs it. 6 years old.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)Or is the Mom making this up? This happened before, the term sexual harrassment was never used, but the mother went on talk radio and said it was, so that became part of the story...a simple story about a kid acting up turns into a national scandal because of some stupid mother...I always think of that and have a good amount of suspicion about these kinds of stories.
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)Fuck all zero-tolerance policies. They're six-year-old kids, for crying out loud.
eqfan592
(5,963 posts)...they must be PUNISHED TO THE FULL EXTENT OF THE LAW AS AN ADULT! Anything less would be uncivilized and a failure to protect the public welfare. Or so I've been told on DU multiple times.
ananda
(28,870 posts)My little sister would kiss her little bf behind the school bus in second grade.
Everybody just laughed about it.
Boy times have changed!
blackspade
(10,056 posts)What is wrong is the sexualization of innocent children's activities by adults who should know better.
At most all this warranted was a conference with his parents and a clear explanation why this was inappropriate.
This sounds like another case of adults with personal issues that need to find another line of work that doesn't involve children.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)damnedifIknow
(3,183 posts)A child psychologist said the tough treatment could have negative consequences. She said the kissing is normal behavior for children of that age."
http://www.krdo.com/news/child-psychologist-sixyearold-kissing-girl-normal-behavior/-/417220/23405622/-/kmp39mz/-/index.html
FatBuddy
(376 posts)i feels so sorry for those who came after.
glowing
(12,233 posts)Everyone just thought it was cute.
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)Women are more than cheeks to be kissed. Little boys need to know this!
jessie04
(1,528 posts)PC run amuck.
get the red out
(13,468 posts)When will he be placed on that list?
Reason has left the (school) building.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)...there was this girl that has this huge crush on me. I even remember her name was Sarah. This of course was when I wasn't really into girls yet. Anyway a few times this girl would sneak up on me and suddenly kiss me. Lots of people laughed and thought it was cute.
Apparently it's sexual harassment now?
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)her son was suspended once before for kissing the girl and had disciplinary problems,
I'd like to know what this means, in its entirety.
I suspect the Mother isn't telling the full story.
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)The school will be forbidden from releasing the full facts and we will only have the Mothers story.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)Lock him up!
warrprayer
(4,734 posts)the stupid gets worse every day.
mstinamotorcity2
(1,451 posts)Some things are just kids being kids. Part of their world is discovery. he has discovered that girls aint so bad. Dumb adults.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Schools are too busy being stupid to teach kids. For a while at one of my kids' schools, there was a rule that during recess, all snow had to remain on the ground. No picking up snow in any way. But they figured out the rule was stupid when kids were all standing outside in the winter trying to figure out what to do if they couldn't play in the snow, and so they changed the policy to "no throwing snowballs" as that is the behavior that had been problematic.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)Her bodily autonomy isn't as important as his comfort. We're just ruining his life by teaching him that kissing someone who doesn't consent is wrong.
I wonder if the Steubenville rapists got the same defense when they were 6. They certainly got the same defense 12 years later when the rape charge ruined their college chances. Let's hope this little boy and his classmates learn the lesson this time, so that we don't read about them ignoring people's bodily autonomy in more egregious ways in 2025.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)KitSileya
(4,035 posts)In addition, the school has a rule about inappropriate behavior, and kissing is among that. They want him to stop kissing the girl in school, they take steps when he doesn't modify his behavior. He need to learn he cannot behave any which way he wants, which he obviously has a problem with, given his previous suspension for kissing and rough-housing.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)KitSileya
(4,035 posts)But letting the school determine what is and isn't inappropriate behavior isn't unreasonable, nor is ensuring that "all students can attend school and not worry about being bothered by someone else," as the principal says, instituting a nazi-like rules regime.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Once upon a time people understood the idea that a person accused of doing something had to be cognizant of what they were accused of doing as well as the ramifications of their actions. It's why minors and the mentally disabled are not subject to capital punishment.
NEWS FLASH! Kids like to pretend they're boyfriend-girlfriend. Hell, I had a kindergarten "boyfriend." They might as well have accused me of promiscuity. This is NOT sexual harassment and it's an insult to the actual offense of SH. The school overreacted and your appeal to unchecked, unquestioned authority is troubling; especially considering how this child has been upset by this entire episode.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)What he did was sexual harassment - kissing in an inappropriate venue is sexual harassment even when it is consentual, if the venue (school, workplace) has such rules. At least twice the school has admonished him that he is not allowed to kiss this girl in class. He has conyinued to do so. His mother supports him in his behavior. I do not think the school overreacted, I think they are doing exactly the right thing. And your assertion that their authority is unquestioned and unchecked is hardly right considering the media articles, and "my appeal" to it is rather support for a school that is doing a good job, and a condemnation of those claiming this is innocent, romantic, and appropriate.
By the way, sharassment isn't even necessarily about sexuality - the definition in many places goes to sex as gender - i.e., harassment of a person of one sex by one of another.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)You obviously don't know much about sexual harassment.
Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitute sexual harassment when
2.submission to or rejection of such conduct by an individual is used as the basis for employment decisions affecting such individuals, or
3.such conduct has the purpose or effect of unreasonably interfering with an individual's work performance or creating an intimidating, hostile, or offensive working environment. (29 C.F.R. § 1604.11 [1980])
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Sexual+Harassment
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)KitSileya
(4,035 posts)It is unlawful to harass a person (an applicant or employee) because of that persons sex. Harassment can include sexual harassment or unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature.
Harassment does not have to be of a sexual nature, however, and can include offensive remarks about a persons sex. For example, it is illegal to harass a woman by making offensive comments about women in general.
Both victim and the harasser can be either a woman or a man, and the victim and harasser can be the same sex.
Although the law doesnt prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that are not very serious, harassment is illegal when it is so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment or when it results in an adverse employment decision (such as the victim being fired or demoted).
The harasser can be the victim's supervisor, a supervisor in another area, a co-worker, or someone who is not an employee of the employer, such as a client or customer.
http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/sexual_harassment.cfm
Heck, I even bolded the relevant passages for you. If it had been consensual (we know now that it most certainly was not) kissing like that would be harassment for the other children as well. A couple keeps kissing in a professional environment, like school is (especially in class) is harassment of those forced to witness it. When they have been told not to do it, it can create a hostile work environment. To clarify (as I suspect I must) if a couple kisses wherever there's no rules against it, it's not harassment. If a couple kisses in a place where there are rules against it, and those rules are reasonable (in class, for example, but perhaps not in the school yard) then should a couple continue doing it, even after others have objected, it is harassment, and sexual harassment at that.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)I call shenanigans on this idea that consensual contact is harassment of any onlookers and double-shenanigans on the idea a 6 year old child is capable of appreciating the concept. Nothing in this ridiculous saga qualifies under the terms you cited and I feel your citation bolsters my argument.
I can't imagine why you feel the need to destroy a small child but you might want to consult a professional about it.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)I am appalled at the reaction of many DUers and most of the media, who do not think a girl's wishes and bodily integrity is as important as a boy's right to be "cute" and continually kiss her. I am sincerely worried for the boy who is clearly not getting proper parental guidance in this issue. I am happy that the girl is getting the support that she deserves and that for once, a girl isn't told that she should just endure it, or even be flattered by it, by the authorities in question, even if many on DU seems to think she should do exactly that.
As described in the article, other children reported his behavior - as the mother of the girl said: "In elementary school, when a boy kisses a girl, the usual response of their peers is 'ewwww,'" she stated. "So why do the other kids rush to tell? Because they've seen it over and over, they've seen him repeatedly get in trouble for it, they've seen the girl repeatedly tell him to stop, they know it's wrong."
If a couple at my workplace (we have several married couples working here) started kissing again and again - in meetings, in class, when presenting - and refused to stop when asked to keep that outside the workplace, or even keep it to breaktime, that would constitute sexual harassment of the others who worked there. It would be sexual behavior (in this case prelude to proper sexual behavior, unlike the case of a 6-year old couple) and it would be behavior they refused to stop. That would be one way consensual behavior could be sexual behavior, which is what is the topic of this sub-thread.
The 6-year old boy is harassing the girl because she is a girl - that is sexual harassment. He has been asked to stop, and he has refused. His classmates clearly don't want him to do it, yet he does it anyway. He has a history of roughhousing, even, so how many of his classmates are worried that he will target them next? Behavior between two parties can have an adverse effect on a third party, is what I am saying.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Half his life ago he was probably still wetting the bed.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)which very many didn't initially (not that anyone has retracted their condemnation of the school after the mother of the girl described the situation even more clearly) and I defended them because this kind of behavior shouldn't be tossed aside with 'a boys will be boys' and a 'how cute'. Children even younger than these should be taught that they can decide who kisses them - that is not applying adult standards to them, it is applying human standards. I deeply appreciate that this school, unlike so many others, actually listened to the girl and did something to stop this behavior - showing her that that her feelings, her body matters. I don't think that is adult standards. That is standard for all humans, only in our culture it certainly isn't enforced uniformly for children and women.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)event to paint the administration as some type of monster.
if i had a teacher come to me and tell me my son was kissing an unwilling girl, then i would address the issue. it would not be shaming, or disciplining, but it would certainly be drawing the boundaries. the parent failed. the parent was like many on these threads shurgging and saying it was normal 6 yr old behavior. because of that mentality the situation escalated to the point it did.
there was no need. it couild have been easily addressed, handled, with out pain and discomfort.
but that could not be. the parent could not take responsibility for sons behavior.
how long was the girl suppose to endure this type of bullying, nuclear?
because normal behavior in a school environment when a kid is called on behavior like this is to stop.
all i see in these posts, is a willingness to find excuses where there should be none.
i am so readily on a childs side. but it was the parent that failed this kid. not the school. not the administration.
and no, he is not labeled and not going to jail and not on some list and .... like i have been reading. a really easy way to again ignore a behavior that should have been addressed way earlier by the parent.
i do know, that in many instances, there is a knee jerk reaction to attack school, adm, teacher. maybe that is all that is at play here.
personally, i appreciate what my kids have received from schools and the teachers they have
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)LisaL
(44,974 posts)""Not once, but over and over...not with her permission but sneaking up on her...not without warning and consequences prior to suspension," she stated."
http://www.canoncitydailyrecord.com/news/canoncity-local-news/ci_24702103/mother-girl-involved-kissing-discipline-speaks-out
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)Thanks for the link.
Blue Diadem
(6,597 posts)I still think a sexual harassment charge is too much for a 6 yr old but his Mom is obviously not taking this seriously enough. She needs to step up and teach him proper boundaries and that just because he likes a girl doesn't mean that girl likes him nor does it give him the permission to touch/kiss etc.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)I can't tell if this is a satirical post or if you're being serious.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Something to do with assange... but what!?!
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)JI7
(89,259 posts)claims.
SummerSnow
(12,608 posts)Seeking Serenity
(2,840 posts)take such a harsh and, in my view in this instance, draconian measures to such incidents that some may see as innocent or benign:
http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-201104.pdf
When OCR finds that a school has not taken prompt and effective steps to respond to sexual
harassment or violence, OCR will seek appropriate remedies for both the complainant and the
broader student population. When conducting Title IX enforcement activities, OCR seeks to
obtain voluntary compliance from recipients. When a recipient does not come into compliance
voluntarily, OCR may initiate proceedings to withdraw Federal funding by the Department or
refer the case to the U.S. Department of Justice for litigation.
So, one the one hand, there's the threat of lawsuits, and on the other, there's the threat of loss of federal funding. So, this six-year-old boy must pay as severe a punishment as can be dealt.
Anyone got a solution? And don't say "just use common sense," because apparently using common sense is not allowed.
As the mother of a school-age boy in the public schools, I am very frightened for him.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)there was an issue. she should have done her job. she should have made clear boundaries instead of shrugging and saying the girls was willing, not a big deal, ignoring the teachers.
she failed her son. not the little girl unwilling to submit to the little boy. not the teachers that put forth the effort many times to redirect and teach the boy boundaries. but the mother, that didnt do her job.
Seeking Serenity
(2,840 posts)very strict and very sad boundaries. That is, in a nutshell, touch no one at any time for any reason. Which is so sad because he is such a sweet, loving, and tactile boy. He would never willingly, knowingly, intentionally hurt anyone. And because he's not yet at the age where he can grasp subtle distinctions of when "X" is appropriate and when it is not, we're just telling him never to do so, period.
One of the sadder consequences is that he and his buddies are coming to the conclusion ON THEIR OWN that girls are to be avoided and not dealt with at all. Not the standard "eww, cooties" thing that most pre-pubescent children do, but that it's just not worth the potential trouble. He also has seen first-hand that there is a double standard at our school wherein boys are punished much more harshly than girls are for the same level of infractions. It is grossly unfair, and the school administrators don't care.
I've cried for my son more times than I care to recount. He gets so confused and I don't know what to tell him. I'm coming to the conclusion, not a very liberal or Democratic view, I know, that boyhood and boyness is being pathologized.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)i was also able to do it in balance where it is not sad. they have and always have had wonderful interaction with girls. my oldest had tons of girls that were friends. still does. they trust him. he listens. they talk. he is good at it. and both boys are respectful. i also had to teach them, that girls had to be equally respectful to them, for them to waste their time on them. that not all girls were nice. to be particular with who they hang out with.
it is not an all or nothing battle we are fighting. to me, balance is pretty damn easy.
yes, at the very young age, they are just learning. that is our job. we dfo it age appropriate. but i would never teach my boys to be fearful of girls
and being a big part of my boys life when they were young, i did not see their peers "fearful" of girls.
i was honest with the boys. i addressed issues, not genders. it made it easy. allowed me to be fair. that is what they gained in insight.
Seeking Serenity
(2,840 posts)He and his playmates have picked that up all on their own. They know that "girls" can get them into trouble, because they've seen it, so they self-segregate. Now, I'm just waiting for THAT to be a source for discipline.
How can I tell him that he's wrong or tell him that his feelings are invalid?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)conveying very adult ideas and thoughts so his younger brain can grasp it. it gave him a better reality so they could successfully negotiate their way, thru understanding, in a balanced manner.
i always, and still listen to my boys. their concerns, fears and everything else. i respect my boys. that comes out whenever i talk to them.
it works. we do not have issues. they are healthy and balanced. it is not a world against them. girls are not evil. and have their own issues they are dealing with.
it is an understanding and acceptance of each other.
Blue Diadem
(6,597 posts)I found this link on there too, don't know if it was in original story.
http://www.krdo.com/news/child-psychologist-sixyearold-kissing-girl-normal-behavior/-/417220/23405622/-/kmp39mz/-/index.html
Thank goodness it has been changed. School officials need to use their heads instead of following a one size fits all branding for a 6 yr old.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)and they are not up to the task.
sendero
(28,552 posts)...... which in most cases could be translated to "zero intelligence".
CRF450
(2,244 posts)It's been some 14 to 20 years ago that I was in elementary school and the only time I've ever seen another kid get suspended was for verbally threatening another's life. I've even been in countless fights and other trouble and never got suspended, but now I'm hearing that even a kindergardener or 1st grader could be suspended for just rough housing. What the hell?!?