Got a question re: the prostitution issue

[GaYellowDawg]

My question is this: does your position on the legalization of prostitution extend to whether porn should be legal? I am not trying to make an argument either way with respect to prostitution (full disclosure: I'm fine with it being illegal) but I'm interested in what others have to say. Is it a completely separate issue? Is porn OK being legal but prostitution not? Do you consider porn a form of prostitution? If not, why not? Why would one be OK but the other not? Just curious about this one.

[99th_Monkey]

1. They both should be totally legal. End of story.

both are victimless, both should be legal.

If there are real victims as with human trafficking, then deal with that separately.

[loli phabay]

3. this, whatever consenting adults do with each other and for whatevere recompense

should be their business, whether its filming youself for money, having sex for money or either or both for anything of value.

[99th_Monkey]

4. +10 ~nt

[LanternWaste]

20. Much like predatory lending...

Much like predatory lending, which fits well within the parameters you defined...

[Warren DeMontague]

29. Except the practice of lending itself, is not illegal. It's the particular interest rate, terms etc.

Unless you think lending in and of itself should be criminalized, what you're discussing is more akin to regulation than wholesale criminalization of a behavior class.

I'm also still hearing something of an odd echo. You might want to contact your cell carrier.

[Squinch]

27. But we all know that a lot of porn and a lot of prostitution doesn't involve consent.

[bluestate10]

37. You're right. But if our society wasn't so puritanical on cases where consent is given, our

society will be in a stronger position to attack cases where consent is not given. But, I suspect your world view is that anyone who consents to sell sex acts is being victimized and buyers are losers. As long as that view dictate our laws, we will never solve the puzzle of prostitution.

[Squinch]

59. A. You know nothing about me. B. What is an example of where that view dictates our laws? and

C. What "puritanism," if removed, would put our society in a stronger position to attack cases where consent is not given? What puritanism is it, exactly, that stands between our society and the prosecution of traffickers of women, children and men?

[loli phabay]

38. then get pissed at the non consent stuff, leave consenting adults alone

unless it the actual acts that people have a problem with rather than consent.

[Squinch]

58. It not. As you know.

[Blue_Adept]

22. Legal and regulated. Like any other business.

But it's not healthy to talk about sex so it'll never happen.

[Egalitarian Thug]

2. All of these "issues" come back to one thing, A frighteningly insane and repressed Monarch.

Sex is human, period. We didn't get speed, strength, intrinsic weapons, or adequate senses. We are slow, blind, and weak, in short, we are basically food for any predator of 40 lbs. or more. The one thing we got over all the other mammals was a non-cyclical, really pleasurable means of reproduction. We can and will fuck at any time for just about any reason. We are not compelled to find a mate by an irresistible force two or three times a year, we get to have sex just for the fun of it, whenever the urge strikes or is inspired.

So of course, the tiny minority has to try their best to fuck it up for everyone, and then whine endlessly about the results that their perverse repression yields. You want healthy, happy people? Let 'em do what they want to do with each other and keep your nose out of it. And BTW, if you would all let loose a little, you might find that it can be good for you too.

[Sheldon Cooper]

5. So, if we have concerns about prostitution and porn,

we just need to get laid and that'll make it all go away?

[EOTE]

6. It definitely wouldn't hurt.

But even more than that, I'd think you'd all benefit from realizing that your concerns would not be addressed by telling grown women and men what they can and cannot do with their bodies. Concerns are great, but if you're going to be even at least a bit honest with yourselves, you'd acknowledge that our current policy of prohibition is a fucking disaster.

[Egalitarian Thug]

7. On what are these concerns based? n/t

[grahamhgreen]

15. If you have concerns, don't do it.

[geek tragedy]

9. pr0n isn't sex, it's a poor substitute for sex.

prostitution is capitalism, not intercourse--it's one person renting another human's body

[Egalitarian Thug]

10. It isn't sex at all, neither is it pr0n. How old are you? n/t

[geek tragedy]

11. pr0n is the visual depiction of sex, it is not sex

people who purchase pr0n are not having sex, they're getting a far inferior substitute.

[Egalitarian Thug]

13. Whoosh!

[loli phabay]

60. i think pron is the way the puritans spelled porn so they would not go to hell.

[darkangel218]

57. Whats pr0n??

[treestar]

51. Have a so i safety net so that no

One has to sell it. Then they could have the freely chosen sex life you describe.

[geek tragedy]

8. impossible to define pr0n from a legal point of view, so not even

worth considering. Personally I think Maxim is pr0n for those who find traditional pr0n too edgy.

prostitution is a much more easier to define behavior, and is associated with a whole host of other crimes and ills, and even where legal transforms the nature of the areas where it's practiced, detrimentally so.

[brooklynite]

12. Both should be legal as long as people are willing to be paid to provide it...

Bottom line is, there are people in every career area that do won't they don't particularly enjoy, because that's the work they could find. As long as there are people who DO enjoy the work and DO enjoy getting paid for it, no reason to ban it.

[geek tragedy]

16. should people be allowed to sell their kidneys?

How about allowing themselves to be branded with cattle irons?

[brooklynite]

21. Not the same category...we're talking about work.

Flip it around...are you opposed to paying anyone for construction work because some people with no other options work as day laborers in unsafe conditions for minimal salaries and no benefits?

[geek tragedy]

23. how is getting branded with a cattle iron to satisfy someone else's kinks

categorically different from prostitution?

Construction is work. Prostitution isn't work, it's the renting of another human being.

[brooklynite]

25. One is a permanent condition; one is not.

[geek tragedy]

26. not sure i agree with that, but . . . how about waterboarding for money? nt

[brooklynite]

32. So, your view is that any job with a risk of physical harm should be banned?

Boxing? Hockey? Rodeo bull riding?

[geek tragedy]

33. Some things are inherently harmful and

irredeemable.

If sex is work, why do we have sexual harassment laws?

[brooklynite]

50. Because the harrassment is applied to work that's not sexual...

[davidn3600]

35. There are people out there that pay money to get spanked, whipped, and tied up

Who are you to judge them?

[geek tragedy]

36. Paying money to get spanked and whipped is a lot different

than those who would pay to spank and whip other people.

[bluestate10]

41. What world of Porn or prostitution have you been exposed to. Branding with hot irons,

whipping, viscous acts that leave a person's body deformed? Do tell.

[geek tragedy]

42. what world have you been exposed to, Pretty Woman?

rapes, PTSD, addictions, diseases, beatings, and it gets worse from there. That all happens, with a great deal of frequency.

[davidn3600]

44. Nobody is talking about non-consensual porn here

You and others are continuously try to mix issues.

We are talking about consenting adults here.

[geek tragedy]

47. pr0n is a different thing than prostitution nt

[loli phabay]

63. fetlife and xhamster i think. lol

[loli phabay]

61. ying and yang, you need both to complete the fetish, bit pointless you being into being branded

and you cant find anyone into it, same in reverse.

[bluestate10]

39. There in lie the problem. The Left gets so emotional about the idea of sex for money that

they can't distinguish between consensual sex for money and forced sex for money. Pimps that are running runaway and kidnapped boys and girls thank the Left. When the Left works with the right to kick in the door of a room with a college grad working for grad school money by entertaining a paying customer, then there are fewer cops out on the street at night looking for the cold, scared teen that is praying that his or her night don't end with a beating from a pimp.

[11 Bravo]

45. ^^^ THIS ^^^ And that should be the end of the argument. (But it won't be.)

[polly7]

46. Well said. nt.

[loli phabay]

62. this should be the end all, butt bit wont.

[BarackTheVote]

48. Isn't all employment renting a human being?

Every employer rents their employees, their time, their energy, their physical presence (i.e., their body) in exchange for money. But prostitution, you might say, is less about physical labor and skill-sets (though I think I'd disagree) and more about physical appearance. There are a lot of legit jobs that don't entail physical labor, and there are a lot of jobs that are low-skill, and there are a lot of jobs that are just about physical appearance (modelling in all of its iterations).

True, sex can be dangerous... it opens the participants to STDs, etc... but there are other employments that are inherently dangerous, like mine-working, construction working... these can be immediately dangerous, as in the case of a cave-in or a fall, or they can have long-lasting health effects, like exposure to coal dust or asbestos causing lung cancer and other diseases... even retail work can open you up to diseases because of human contact, like the flu and common cold...

There are other dangers, like being assaulted or being ripped off by a John... but you can be assaulted at almost any job, or on the street... retailers can be ripped off through shop-lifting... but because prostitution is illegal, the prostitute can't go to the police and plead their case, unlike the other two examples. So prostitutes work for an enforcer or someone who has enforcers, who basically take the law into their own hands. The flip side of that is that if the pimp decides to abuse a prostitute, again, where is she going to go? She'll probably end up arrested if she says anything. So, as with prohibitions against anything, whether it be drugs, alcohol, or prostitution, the lack of legality in and of itself creates victims which would be non-existent if they were legal and regulated.

Sex is physically intimate, as in another person is doing things to your body... but so are some other service jobs that are totally legal, like someone who gives massages, or even someone who's doing a manicure... But religion says that once the intimacy has to do with the genitals it's wrong and taboo. But we're a nation that's not supposed to make laws based on a religious tradition, and in fact, there are and have been religious traditions that are fine with or even lauding of prostitution. The distinction of sex as something above and beyond any other physical contact is based on morality, which can't be legislated.

As long as the two (or however many) people are consenting adults, and as long as nobody is getting hurt, it should be legal, because, again, we are a secular society, and there are so many parallels between prostitution and legit jobs that if you take the religious taboo out of the equation, there's simply no argument that can be made. If a man or woman wants to use their given assets to make a living, they should be able to do that in a relatively safe environment, both structurally and socially.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

14. yes and yes

i believe both should be legal and regulated

i believe this about most vices, as making vices illegal privileges the rich (usually white men) over the poor (usually people of color).

[Nye Bevan]

17. Provided all involved are consenting adults, both should be legal.

As is the case with most things.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. ...sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love.

Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things: One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell. The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love. Butch Hancock

[KentuckyWoman]

40. LOL

Butch Hancock sure knows how to get books worth of truths into 2 sentences.

[cthulu2016]

19. Somewhat separate, both neither should be illegal

It is a problem to talk about whether something should be legal, since everything is legal until someone makes it illegal.

They are overlapping issues, but not the same issue.

To tell a person that they cannot charge money for sex, and will be imprisoned if they, try is nuts.

To outlaw pictures of people doing things that you or I would be free to do, but somehow the PICTURE is the problem is astonishingly primitive. People who think like that are simply bad people. (Though they will gladly tell you otherwise!)

[R B Garr]

24. Prostitution is essentially buying a service. Porn is not in that category

so I don't see how you can relate the two of them.

As far as prostitution becoming legal, I don't see how that will ever be a completely viable option, mostly because who is going to write the lemon laws?

In one of the many recent porn threads, someone posted a review of prostitutes that basically consisted of wankers complaining they wanted their money back. How is that service going to be quanitified and/or qualified, i.e., she looked older than her pictures, she didn't smile, she didn't grip me right. Yeah, it's legal in places here and there, but if it's legal everywhere, you're looking at service agreements and who is going to manage those kind of consumer issues. It's impossible to legalize someone's personal desires and issues like that.

[bluestate10]

43. If you go into a restaurant that you have never used and get served a bad meal, does there

have to be a law that give you your money back. The restaurant promised you a meal, which it delivered, the meal was just bad. Most people would not patronize the restaurant again, the restaurant will either improve or go out of business without a single law or statue being written. I consider your question answered.

[R B Garr]

53. Except I really didn't ask a question, so this doesn't answer "it"

You don't go into a restaurant and expect a private one on one experience. The restaurant is public. Unless you're suggesting that the patrons and prostitutes engage out in the open on tables and are all served the same thing. Food is cooked. Sex is performed.
You can quantify and qualify the type of steak you want. You cannot quantify or qualify the type of erection or orgasm you want.

[mfcorey1]

28. This happened with regulated prostitution. Sad

http://www.tmz.com/2013/12/13/howard-stern-contest-johnny-orris-prostitute-bunny-ranch-dennis-hof/

[ismnotwasm]

30. Damn it

I got porn on key word trash. Oh well. Manual is fine

[B Calm]

31. Yes both should be legal and so should drugs.

[Logical]

49. All drugs? n-t

[Major Nikon]

52. Yes

That doesn't mean all of them should be without regulation. Some should still require a doctor's prescription if there's significant risk, but I believe all should be available to the maximum extent practical even for recreational use. If you can't do what you want with your own bag of meat, what freedoms do you really have?

[B Calm]

56. Just like prostitution, no matter if it's illegal, they are still going to do it.

So why not make it all legal?

[bluestate10]

34. Prostitution should be de-criminalized. I am not at legalization yet unless it comes with

Last edited Fri Dec 13, 2013, 08:58 PM - Edit history (2)

forceful constraints on sex slavery. If prostitution is legalized, each person practicing should be required to obtain a confidential picture license and renew it every year and have to display the license if approached by law enforcement. Legalization could be a tool for reigning in sexual slavery and for jailing the pimps and Johns associated with forcing boys and girls into selling sex.

The Left just can't get it collective head around prostitution, the typical Left view is that EVERY prostitute is being degraded. The reality is different. Prostitution covers a spectrum, from educated people who willingly sell their bodies to runaway children and kidnapped children who are forced to sell their bodies and who constantly live in fear of both their pimps and cops, because in our fucked up system, both will victimize them.

[In_The_Wind]

54. I feel that both prostitution and pornography should be legal.

[Kurska]

55. I think people own their own bodies and are free to do whatever they want with it.

Like any industry it needs to be regulated for safety, but the ultimate ability to practice that industry should not be a matter for public debate.