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neverforget

(9,436 posts)
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 03:08 PM Dec 2013

Who appoints FISA court judges?

Supreme Court Justice John Roberts who is a conservative George W Bush appointee.

http://www.fjc.gov/history/home.nsf/page/courts_special_fisc.html

Congress in 1978 established the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court as a special court and authorized the Chief Justice of the United States to designate seven federal district court judges to review applications for warrants related to national security investigations. Judges serve for staggered, non-renewable terms of no more than seven years, and until 2001 were drawn from different judicial circuits. The provisions for the court were part of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (92 Stat. 1783), which required the government, before it commenced certain kinds of intelligence gathering operations within the United States, to obtain a judicial warrant similar to that required in criminal investigations. The legislation was a response to a report of the Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities (the “Church Committee”), which detailed allegations of executive branch abuses of its authority to conduct domestic electronic surveillance in the interest of national security. Congress also was responding to the Supreme Court’s suggestion in a 1972 case that under the Fourth Amendment some kind of judicial warrant might be required to conduct national security related investigations.


Not surprisingly, a conservative appoints conservatives to the FISA court.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/nationalsecurity/chief-justice-john-roberts-appointed-every-judge-on-the-fisa-court-20130812

Since 2007 or so, though, the FISA Court has bulked up like A-Rod. The New York Times revealed that it has developed a complex case law interpreting the Surveillance Act, the Fourth Amendment, and its own jurisdiction. That case law—like the orders the Court issues, like the briefs the government files, and like the legal opinions from which those briefs flow—are, of course, secret.

An entire shadow Constitution may be growing up, parsed by a court appointed by John Roberts. That secret growth seems more alarming because of reports that the chief justice's picks for the secret court have been skewed toward the Republican side of the bench.


But we need to support the NSA because terror! and freedom!

And from July:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/07/us/in-secret-court-vastly-broadens-powers-of-nsa.html?ref=opinion&_r=0


In Secret, Court Vastly Broadens Powers of N.S.A.
WASHINGTON — In more than a dozen classified rulings, the nation’s surveillance court has created a secret body of law giving the National Security Agency the power to amass vast collections of data on Americans while pursuing not only terrorism suspects, but also people possibly involved in nuclear proliferation, espionage and cyberattacks, officials say.

The rulings, some nearly 100 pages long, reveal that the court has taken on a much more expansive role by regularly assessing broad constitutional questions and establishing important judicial precedents, with almost no public scrutiny, according to current and former officials familiar with the court’s classified decisions.

The 11-member Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, known as the FISA court, was once mostly focused on approving case-by-case wiretapping orders. But since major changes in legislation and greater judicial oversight of intelligence operations were instituted six years ago, it has quietly become almost a parallel Supreme Court, serving as the ultimate arbiter on surveillance issues and delivering opinions that will most likely shape intelligence practices for years to come, the officials said.


But we have to ignore all of this because nutcase Larry Klayman brought a lawsuit and won in federal court. Somehow, all this abuse of power should be ignored because the plaintiff is a right wing nutjob.
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sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
3. There should be NO Secret Courts in a Democracy. Period.
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 06:00 PM
Dec 2013

And I don't give a flying f%^k who brought the suit, I could not be happier to see this case brought to a REAL court rather than the sham, phony, Fisa Court which rubber stamps the corrupt actions of the secret government we seem to have these days.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
5. No we do not have to ignore it, we have to CHEER for it, justice should always be applauded when it
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 06:06 PM
Dec 2013

happens.

Just ignore the puppets who are attempting to emotionally manipulate the 'left' which they do constantly, assuming we are so manipulable that if they just say 'right wing nut' we will protect the NSA and go against our own interests.

I love this actually because when they try to use these tactics on Left Forums, they completely expose themselves to us.

for one of the best rulings we have had in a real court regarding the gross violation of rights being perpetrated by the Bush, Right Wing Led NSA

neverforget

(9,436 posts)
6. Yeah but Right Wing Lawyer Larry Klayman is the plaintiff and the judge is a W appointee.
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 09:27 PM
Dec 2013

therefore all the NSA stuff is totally cool.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
7. One important fact that the pro security state contingency have forgotten to mention.
Wed Dec 18, 2013, 02:36 AM
Dec 2013

Klayman and the judge may be right wingers but most important, the NSA is filled with Bush Appointed Right Wing Nuts also.

So, isn't it a beautiful thing to watch? While Dems cowered rather than do what was right, file suit at least against Bush's NSA for their egregious violations of our rights, or fire all of them and replace them with ethical people, eventually, even Right Wingers could no longer support their OWN LEADERS, (we told them so!) taking away, not just the rights of Liberals, but THEIR RIGHTS ALSO.

What do you call it when this happens? Schadenfreude? Karma? Poetic Justice? I don't know but I'm getting a huge kick out of the fact that even former Bush fanatics have finally realized that the LIBERALS WERE RIGHT after all, and it is THEY, not us, who finally took some action to try to end the policies WE WARNED THEM ABOUT.

What a wonderful thing! They are ALL Rightwingers, the Plaintiff, the Defendants and the Judge!

And the People Win!

If only I could find my old Right Wing adversaries who I warned that they were supporting policies that would affect them also, but they were so certain that they would be in power forever and they would be immune being that they were so 'patriotic'.

I love saying 'I told you so' to Right Wingers, but they have become very quiet and hard to find these days!

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
8. If we just repeal FISA, we go back to unlimited inherent surveillance powers
Wed Dec 18, 2013, 02:41 AM
Dec 2013

That was the situation before 1978: the President had inherent surveillance powers that were limited only in that what was found couldn't be used in court (simply being surveilled doesn't give the target of surveillance standing to sue; he can only show harm if that information is then used against him).

If we dump FISA, we go back to that. If we limit that inherent surveillance power (which the courts have confirmed in the past) too much, then the law will probably be struck down. So, seeing the flaws in this system, what would you do to fix it?

neverforget

(9,436 posts)
9. seems to me we have a fig leaf of protection
Wed Dec 18, 2013, 03:17 AM
Dec 2013

now as the NSA gets whatever it wants on most cases. The FISA judges only hear 1 side at the moment , the NSA's, with no one there to raise objections to possible abuse. And it's conducted in secret. I don't think secret courts and democracy go together.

I get that the intelligence is classified and needs to be protected. (I hold a clearance.) However, a mechanism must be put into place to protect the rights of all Americans. As it is now, I don't trust the FISA court especially since all the judges are and have been appointed by Chief Justice John Roberts.

As an aside and what has me upset is that the NSA is collecting data on all Americans. To me, that makes the government suspect ALL Americans instead of targeting the very few that might do us harm.

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